
r/ChineseHistory

A question of meritocracy within the Song Dynasty
I am. currently reading through Acemoglu and Robinson's book "Why Nations Fail" and on page 231, on the subject of the repression of industrialisation across several countries, they state the following on the Song dynasty:
"For centuries China also had a centralised state with a meritocratically recruited civil service."
My question is on the accuracy of this claim. There are two pillars to this, how centralised were the Song and how meritocratic was their civil service?
Mural paintings from a late Tang dynasty tomb in Xian, Shaanxi province of China, around 9th century AD
Men Carrying Tea Bricks on the Ancient Tea Horse Road in Sichuan China, 1908 by Ernest Henry Wilson
Why did “order” become such a central problem in Chinese history?
Hi everyone,
I have been thinking about one question while writing a general-reader history book on China:
Why did order become such a central concern in Chinese history?
I do not mean “order” only in the sense of obedience to authority. I mean something closer to survival: the fear of war, fragmentation, local violence, unstable taxation, broken administration, and the collapse of predictable life.
From the late Spring and Autumn period to the Warring States, many political thinkers were not writing in a peaceful classroom. They were responding to a world in which states were competing for land, population, grain, soldiers, and administrative capacity.
That is why I find early Chinese political thought so interesting. Confucianism, Mohism, Legalism, Daoism, and later imperial institutions can all be read as different answers to disorder:
Confucianism tried to rebuild moral and social roles.
Mohism offered discipline, universal concern, and anti-war organization.
Legalism tried to make power, law, reward, and punishment calculable.
Qin turned people, land, law, writing, and military service into a state machine.
Han then had to soften and repackage that machine so it could last.
This also raises a bigger question:
Was Chinese imperial history mainly a story of authoritarian control, or was it also a long attempt to solve the problem of recurring disorder?
I am not saying the pursuit of order was always good. A strong state could end chaos, but it could also crush society. That tension is exactly what interests me.
For people who study Chinese history, do you think “order as survival” is a useful way to frame the transition from the Warring States to empire? Or does it oversimplify too much?
Disclosure: I have been working on a general-reader book about this topic, but I am mainly looking for feedback on whether this framing makes sense to non-specialists.
I’ve spent a year turning a 1,000-year-old Chinese history book into something that reads like The 48 Laws of Power
So there’s this text called the Zizhi Tongjian — 294 volumes, written in the 11th century as a “mirror” for emperors on how to actually run things. Statecraft, betrayal, loyalty, spectacular political own-goals. It’s basically a manual on power written by people who watched dynasties rise and eat themselves.
Problem: almost none of it exists in readable English. The translations that do exist read like tax law.
So I started adapting it. Punchy, a little irreverent, one power lesson at a time — but keeping the actual history intact, plus notes on the Confucian logic underneath each story so it’s not just palace gossip. Every figure gets a portrait too (a few attached — the art was half the fun).
Should I buy and read this trilogy? People's Trilogy by Frank Dikötter
I am a casual history reader. I know the very basics of Chinese history. Would love to know more. However as I am casual reader and wont be able to scoure through dozens of book, I wanted to select the ones which are good. Should I read it? Or Should I read something else? Or should I take another book parallely to get an all round understanding
Why were the Chinese able to destroy the rule of conquerors and then rule over them, while many European peoples were assimilated by the conquerors?
I've been studying Chinese history recently and have discovered a very interesting phenomenon.
Historically, China was conquered twice, with the entire country occupied. The Mongols and Manchus established the Yuan and Qing dynasties.
In the mid-19th century, the Chinese carried out ethnic cleansing against the Manchus.
However, the Chinese were able to destroy the conquerors' rule each time. The Ming dynasty destroyed the Yuan dynasty, and the ROC destroyed the Qing dynasty.
Furthermore, the Chinese were never assimilated by the Manchus and Mongols; in fact, they even carried out ethnic cleansing as retaliation after destroying their rule.
To this day, the Chinese still rule Inner Mongolia and Manchuria.
But many European ethnic groups seem to have been completely assimilated by their conquerors.
The most classic examples are the French and British.
Many French and British are descendants of Celts, but they were conquered by Germanic and Latin peoples long ago, yet they never destroyed the rule of these invaders.
They were even assimilated by the conquerors.
Including the Romans, and even many Germans today claiming to be Roman, I find it as ridiculous as a Chinese person claiming to be Mongolian.
To be conquered, and then worship the conqueror?
The same is true for the Anatolians. While most are descendants of the original inhabitants, with very few true Turkic descendants, they now proudly identify as Turkic.
This situation is common in Europe: assimilation by conquerors, inability to destroy their rule.
What modern day country has China invaded the most throughout all of history?
reddit.comIntimidated by Chinese history - don't know where to start
Hello, I'm a BA undergrad student of history looking to further my knowledge on Chinese history. I'm Indian and have read a lot about my own country's history, quite a bit about Europe and Africa but very little about Chinese history beyond some specialised periods like the warlord era (and even then, to only a cursory extent). I'm interested in how a "Chinese" imperial identity emerged from various distinct states and ethnicities and am also intrigued by the systems of social organisation within the post-Qin period and how they evolved. I'm also somewhat interested in Chinese folk religion and its development. But I feel kind of intimidated by big volumes (ie the Cambridge series) and would like to go with individual books period by period instead. Do you guys have any recommendations on individual books to begin with? I'm looking for non-pop/dumbed down stuff.
Some Chinese figurines from western Han dynasty,around 2nd to 1st century BC
Han Dynasty: When Women Ruled the World
Out of all the dynasties in Chinese history, the Han dynasty (including both Eastern and Western) had the most empress regents. These women were ruthless and merciless within the harem, and once their husbands passed, became the most powerful person in the empire. Many of them ruled with compassion, but many also ruled with iron fists.
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Lü Zhi 呂雉 (241 BCE – 18 August 180 BCE), commonly known as Empress Lü 呂后 and formally Empress Gao of Han 漢高后, was the empress consort of Gaozu, the founding emperor of the Han dynasty. Empress Lü was the first woman to assume the title "Empress of China" as well as becoming its paramount. After Gaozu's death, she was honored as empress dowager and ruled as regent during the short reigns of Emperor Hui and his successors Emperor Qianshao and Emperor Houshao.
She played a role in the rise and foundation of her husband, his dynasty, as well as laws and customs he laid. Empress Lü, even in the absence of her husband from the capital, killed two prominent generals who played an important role in Gaozu's rise to power as a lesson for the aristocracy and other generals. In June 195 BCE, with the death of Gaozu, Empress Lü became Empress Dowager and had complete control over imperial China.
Less than a year after Emperor Hui's accession to the throne, in 194 BC, Lü had one of the late Emperor Gaozu's consorts whom she deeply hated, Concubine Qi, put to death cruelly (limbs chopped, eyes gouged, tongue, ears, and nose cut, muted by poison, dumbed by toxins, locked in a pigsty, and called the “human swine”), then fatally poisoned her son. Emperor Hui was shocked by his mother's cruelty and fell sick for a year, and thereafter no longer became involved in state affairs, giving more power to his mother. As a result, Empress Dowager Lü held regency, and became imperial China's first female paramount ruler.
With the untimely death of her 22-year-old son, Emperor Hui, Empress Dowager Lü subsequently proclaimed his two young sons emperor (known historically as Emperor Qianshao and Emperor Houshao respectively) and claimed regency for 8 years. She dominated the political scene for 15 years until her death in August 180 BCE.
Virtually unknown in the West, but Empress Lü's notoriety still reigns in the minds of East Asia. She was the first woman to rule an imperial China, reigning over China's first golden age, even without a crown, making her the most powerful woman of the world at that time. Many of her tactics were later studied and utilized by the future Wu Zetian.
Wang Zhengjun 王政君 (71 BCE – 3 February 13 CE), officially Empress Xiaoyuan 孝元皇后, later and more commonly known as Grand Empress Dowager Wang, was an empress during the Western Han dynasty of China, who played important roles during the reigns of five successive Han emperors (her husband, son, two stepgrandsons, and stepgreat-grandnephew) and later led to the usurpation of the throne by her nephew Wang Mang. She is largely viewed sympathetically by historians as an unassuming and benevolent if overly doting woman, whose carelessness led to the downfall of the Western Han dynasty.
Despite how historians viewed her, Wang Zhengjun was recorded as among the most politically powerful women in Chinese history, wielding unparalleled supreme imperial authority over regencies and state policies. Outliving multiple emperors, Wang Zhengjun became the de facto kingmaker, dictating who would be crowned.
As a filial woman, Wang Zhengjun used her powers to benefit her family, handing vast territories and government control to her male relatives. Her brothers and nephews, collectively called the Five Vassals, effectively dictated all military and civilian affairs of the empire while successive emperors operated as mere figureheads. Unfortunately, future Chinese would use her as an example of the danger of handing powers to women.
Her uninhibited distribution of power to her clan eventually allowed her nephew, Wang Mang, to rise to the highest levels of government and established his own dynasty, effectively ending the Western Han. Wang Zhengjun’s power was so absolute that even when Wang Mang established the Xin dynasty, he had to ask her to hand over the Heirloom Seal of the Realm, one of the emperor’s symbols of power. The Grand Empress, in a fit of rage, threw the Heirloom Seal to the ground, damaging it permanently.
Wang Zhengjun passed away in the spring of 13 CE, after years of disapproval of Wang Mang’s usurpation. Despite this, her nephew continued to shower her with gifts and titles, even implying that she was his new dynasty’s co-founder.
Empress Dou 竇皇后 (c. 63 – 8 October 97 CE), formally Empress Zhangde 章德皇后, was an empress of Emperor Zhang of the Eastern Han. She was already influential during her husband's reign, but became particularly highly powerful as empress dowager and regent between 88 and 92 CE for her adoptive son Emperor He after Emperor Zhang's death.
Historical records confirmed of Empress Zhangde's multiple orchestrations that forced suicides and deaths of at least 4 rival consorts out of jealousy. Consort Song's son was crown prince of Emperor Zhang, so the childless Empress Zhangde accused her of witchcraft in 79 CE. The consort and her sister (also an imperial consort) were then executed by poison. Later, Consort Liang gave birth to the new crown prince, so Empress Zhangde spread false accusations against the consort and her sister in 83 CE. As a result, their father died in prison, and both consorts passed from heartbreak. All of these plots were designed to further consolidate power. Despite having the most fatal flaw of her era as a woman (infertility), she managed to claw to absolute power.
Following the death of her husband, Empress Zhangde served as regent for her young adoptive son, Emperor He, from 88 to 92 CE. During this time, she held the highest authority in the empire and issued imperial edicts to dictate state policies. She heavily elevated her family members, ensuring her clan to dominate the political landscape. Her brother, Dou Xian, was appointed as General of Chariots and Cavalry, essentially placing the empire's military command directly into the hands of her family.
Because her family held ultimate control, entrenched officials and eunuchs from previous administrations were largely retained but were aligned with the Dou family's interests, consolidating absolute rule over the palace itself.
However, her family's expansive reach eventually became a threat to her adopted son, Emperor He. In 92 CE, Emperor He orchestrated a sudden coup d'état that toppled the Dou clan's influence. While she was stripped of her political power and regency, she was permitted to keep her honorary title of Empress Dowager until her death.
Deng Sui 鄧綏 (81 – 5 or 17 April 121 CE), formally Empress Hexi 和熹皇后, was an empress of the Eastern Han dynasty through her marriage to Emperor He of Han, and later its de facto ruler, acting as regent twice for Emperor Shang and Emperor An. Deng Sui was recognized as a merciful, intelligent leader who guided the dynasty well through a period of excessive natural disaster, disastrous famine, court intrigues, economic inflation and costly military conflicts, and she overcame all the problems and organized the government; as well as a staunch opponent of corruption and bribery, and an effective patron of education and the arts, which fostered growth and development in state. She is considered to be one of the Han dynasty’s last effective rulers.
After her husband passed, Deng Sui served as regent for 2 successive child emperors, becoming the Han dynasty’s de facto ruler, holding supreme authority for 16 years (106–121 CE). Despite wielding the throne during an era plagued by disastrous decade-long floods, droughts, famines, and rebellions, she successfully held the empire together. Imperial and local granaries were opened to provide immediate food assistance to starving populations in provinces affected by famine. She also directed and encouraged the dyke and dam repairs to mitigate future flooding.
Deng Sui also enacted sweeping reforms throughout the country, including cutting excessive palace expenses (halting the production of luxury crafts and focusing more on sponsorship of education), lowering taxes, and punishing corruption. Unlike other powerful dowagers who allowed their families to monopolize the government, Deng Sui fiercely curbed the power of her own clan, keeping them modest and free of corruption. She also instituted fair justice systems, extending appeals for the death penalty.
In terms of foreign diplomacy, Deng Sui successfully maintained peace along the northern borders by pacifying nomadic groups like the Xiongnu and the Qiang. When faced with raids by nomadic regimes and border disturbances, she focused on maintaining the defense of the empire instead of launching aggressive or costly military expansion. Rather than micromanaging regional campaigns herself, she relied on capable administrators and generals to manage outlying commanderies, ensuring corruption was punished to maintain the loyalty of the borderlands.
Empress Hexi was also highly educated and a strong advocate for scholarship. Under her rule, the standardization of classic books was overseen, and the official, widespread use of paper was heavily promoted across the empire. She served as a major patron of the prominent female scholar Ban Zhao, encouraging her to complete the landmark Book of Han. Original thinking and education were also actively sponsored as Deng Sui famously required 70 members of the imperial families to study the Confucian classics while she personally oversaw their examinations. Instead of accepting the customary lavish tributes usually given to an empress, she requested paper and ink, which led to the widespread usage and production of paper in the imperial palace, critically accelerating the world’s adoption of the material itself.
Yan Ji 閻姬 (died 28 February 126 CE), formally Empress Ansi 安思皇后, was wife to Emperor An of the Eastern Han dynasty (son to Deng Sui). Known for her conspiratorial and nepotistic behavior, both as empress and briefly as empress dowager regent, Yan Ji ruled for 7 months in 125 CE. However, her plan to hold on to power ultimately resulted in failure and the deaths of her clan members.
During most of Emperor An's reign, he was mostly overshadowed by his regent, Empress Dowager Deng Sui. But after she passed in April 121 CE, he asserted his authority and put a number of his trusted individuals in power to displace the late empress dowager's family, many of whom were forced to commit suicide. Among these entrusted individuals were 4 of Yan Ji's brothers. Yan Ji herself influenced her husband in his actions greatly, manipulating him to eliminate her opposition and establish her own clan in key positions. In 124 CE, she falsely accused the 9-year-old Crown Prince Bao of crimes, leading to his deposition.
In April 125 CE, Emperor An died suddenly while on a trip. The empress, who was with him, did not immediately announce his death, but conspired with her brothers and the powerful eunuchs to find an alternative to Prince Bao, who would otherwise appear to be his father's natural successor. They chose a young cousin of Emperor An’s, the young and gullible Marquess of Beixiang named Liu Yi, as the next emperor. The Yan clan then quickly moved to grab more power. They falsely accused some other of Emperor An's trusted individuals of crimes. Many were executed and exiled.
The eunuch Sun Cheng, believing that Prince Bao was the proper emperor, formed a conspiracy with Prince Bao's assistant Changxing Qu and a number of other eunuchs with intent to restore Prince Bao. When late in the year, the young emperor grew sick and died, Yan Ji and her brothers again did not announce his death but summoned the sons of the imperial princes to the capital, intending to again bypass Prince Bao. Several days later, Sun and 18 of his fellow eunuchs made a surprise attack on the palace with a successful coup d'état. They welcomed Prince Bao to the palace and declared him Emperor Shun. The Yan clan was slaughtered, while the Empress Dowager was confined to her palace, where she died in mourning.
Liang Na 梁妠 (116 – 6 April 150 CE), formally Empress Shunlie 順烈皇后, was wife to Emperor Shun of the Eastern Han dynasty. She later served as regent for his son Emperor Chong, and the two subsequent emperors from collateral lines, Emperor Zhi and Emperor Huan. As empress dowager and regent, she was noted to be diligent and honest, but was overly trusting of her violent and corrupt elder brother Liang Ji, whose autocratic nature would eventually draw a coup d'etat from Emperor Huan after her death, leading to the destruction of the Liang clan.
As empress, Empress Liang did not interfere significantly in her husband's administration, but Emperor Shun became very trustful of her relatives, eventually promoting her father to Grand Marshal despite lacking in abilities. Her brothers Liang Ji and Liang Buyi also became key officials. When the Grand Marshal passed, his position was given to Liang Ji, who would eventually stamp out all dissent, positioning himself as the most powerful individual in the imperial administration.
When Emperor Shun passed, his toddler son became emperor, elevating Liang Na to the status of the empress dowager regent. Empress Dowager was known to be diligent in governing over the empire, but her complete trust of Liang Ji led to his ascension to power. In 145 CE, the young Emperor Chong died. Empress Dowager and other key officials largely favored Liu Suan as the next successor, but Liang Ji convinced Liang Na to make the child Liu Zuan as emperor for easier control. The Empress Dowager continued to serve as regent.
In 146 CE, the young Emperor Zhi began to recognize Liang Ji’s corruption, so Liang Ji had him poisoned without the knowledge of Liang Na. He then persuaded the Empress Dowager to crown the 14-year-old Liu Zhi as Emperor Huan. She continued to serve as regent for the new child emperor.
In 150 CE, Empress Dowager Liang announced that she was stepping down as regent and returning imperial authority to Emperor Huan. She died later that year and was buried with her husband. However, Liang Ji remained in effective control of the government and now, without his sister to curb his power, became ever more violent and corrupt. This eventually drew a reaction from Emperor Huan, who conspired with eunuchs to overthrow Liang Ji in a coup d'état in 159 CE. The Liang clan was slaughtered.
Dou Miao 竇妙 (died 18 July 172 CE), formally Empress Huansi, was an empress of Emperor Huan of the Han dynasty. After his death, she served as regent for his successor Emperor Ling, assisted by her father Dou Wu and the Confucian scholar Chen Fan. Dou and Chen had a major confrontation with powerful eunuchs later in 168 CE, leading to her house arrest where she passed.
In January 168 CE, Emperor Huan died heirless, making Dou Miao the empress dowager and regent. She and her father examined the potential successors within the imperial Liu clan, and they settled on the 12-year-old Liu Hong, the Marquess of Jieduting, and he ascended the throne as Emperor Ling. Empress Dou continued to serve as regent, giving Chen Fan and Dou Wu great power. With this newfound power, she executed Emperor Huan’s highly-favored Consort Tian due to jealousy.
As regent, however, the Empress Dowager was recorded to be diligent and paid attention to many important matters, including the suppression of Qiang revolts. She supported general Duan Jiong, who successfully suppressed the Qiang with overwhelming force, completely ending the Qiang rebellions during the Han dynasty.
After becoming leading officials, Dou Wu and Chen Fan tried to clean up the government by recalling loyal officials to stamp out corruption, particularly by the clans of the powerful eunuchs. The eunuchs tried to counter this by constantly opposing the Empress Dowager. Eventually, Dou Miao and her allies began to set up a plan to exterminate the powerful eunuchs.
In the autumn of that year, the eunuchs discovered the plan and quickly formed a conspiracy with 17 eunuchs to strike back. They quickly took Emperor Ling into custody under claims of protection and issued edicts that eventually kidnapped the Empress Dowager. Chen Fan was captured and executed, while Dou Wu was defeated in battle. Dou Wu killed himself after defeat, and the Dou clan was slaughtered. Dou Miao was put under house arrest, although maintaining her title of empress dowager.
In 172 CE, Dou Miao died in the summer. The powerful eunuchs hated her so much that they had her body placed on a wagon for transporting luggage and exposed to the elements for a few days, then eventually wanted to bury her with the honors not of an empress dowager, but an imperial consort. At Emperor Ling's insistence, she was still buried with the ceremony of an empress dowager with her husband Emperor Huan.
Empress Dowager He 何太后 (died 30 September 189 CE), posthumously known as Empress Lingsi, was empress to consort of Emperor Ling of the Eastern Han. After the death of Emperor Ling in 189 CE, she became empress dowager when her young son, Liu Bian, became the new Emperor Shao. She was caught up in the conflict between her paternal half-brother, General-in-Chief He Jin, and the eunuch faction, who were both vying for power in the Han imperial court. After He Jin's assassination and the elimination of the eunuch faction, the warlord Dong Zhuo took advantage of the power vacuum to lead his forces into the imperial capital and seize control of the Han central government. Dong Zhuo subsequently deposed Emperor Shao, replaced him with Liu Xie and had Empress Dowager He poisoned to death.
During her time as the empress consort, Empress Lingsi was ruthless in the harem. One of Emperor Ling's consorts, Lady of Beauty Wang, became pregnant. As she feared that Empress He would harm her unborn child, she attempted to cause a miscarriage by consuming drugs, but her child remained safe. In 181 CE, after Lady Wang gave birth to a son, Liu Xie, Empress He ordered her to be poisoned to death. Emperor Ling was furious when he found out and he wanted to depose Empress He, but the eunuchs managed to persuade him to spare the empress. The motherless Liu Xie was raised by his grandmother, Empress Dowager Dong, and given the title Marquis Dong.
Upon Emperor Ling’s passing, Empress Lingsi became the Empress Dowager He, installing her son Liu Bian as the new emperor. Due to his frivolous nature, all powers belonged to the Empress dowager and her brother He Jin, giving the He clan absolute power. Empress Dowager He could issue imperial edicts, rule the empire through her son, and was able to balance her powers with the rising eunuch faction. However, in 189 CE, the eunuch faction plotted and succeeded in assassinating He Jin. In retaliation, He Jin’s subordinates stormed the palace with troops and killed the eunuch.
With a new power vacuum, the warlord Dong Zhuo led his forces to the capital, deposed Emperor Shao and installed another puppet emperor. Empress Dowager He was poisoned to death and buried with her husband, ushering in the age of the Three Kingdoms.
A silk painting showing a man riding a dragon, from Warring states period of China, around 3rd century BC, found in a tomb of Chu state in Changsha,Hunan province, preserved in Hunan museum
Why is Qin Shi Huang considered the first emperor?
It makes no sense. Why isn't Yu the great considered the first emperor? If the issue is the size of the Xia Dynasty then what makes the Qin Dynasty large enough to be considered China? If the issue is the historicity of Yu the Great, then why isn't the first emperor considered to be Wu Ding?
Edit: I've made a fool of myself and I now understand why Qin Shi Huang was the first emperor. I deeply apologize to ying Zheng for disrespecting his imperial legacy.
Why are Guangdong people portrayed as being "unfashionable" in contemporary China? Is this a recent stereotype in popular culture or is it part of a legacy of portraying Southerners as more barbarian? (It seems to me that traditional fashion in Guangdong was not worse than in the North)?
Some Brick paintings from Wei and Jin dynasty of China, around the 3rd century AD
Pre-Song Glaives/Pudao/Guandao
When was the Glaive actually invented and common? They say Guan Yu invented it in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms. Historical sources say he probably used a spear or dagger axe instead and the Glaive was only common after the Song.
Others say it has existed before that. The Shang had a Glaive like weapon but only for executions. Some say the Glaive probably existed very early it was just a farming tool turned into a weapon.
Ancient lacquerware box from China's warring states period, around 3rd century BC, found in a Chu state tomb in Hubei province, preserved in Hubei provincial museum
Does China have oral traditions about guardian spirits or sacred places?
Hi everyone,
I'm a PhD researcher from India, and lately I've been reading a lot about oral traditions. I find them fascinating because they often preserve memories, beliefs, and local history that never made it into written records.
In the Himalayan region of India, there are stories about Khet Parvat, sometimes described as the "land of fairies." People also speak of guardian spirits connected to certain mountains, forests, and sacred places. Whether these stories are seen as folklore or matters of faith, they've been passed down for generations and are still part of local culture.
I was wondering if China has similar traditions. Are there stories about guardian spirits, sacred mountains, or local legends that people still pass down orally? I'd love to hear about them, especially if they're from your own region or family.
I'm always interested in learning about traditions that don't usually appear in history books. Thanks!