Pretty much title. I'm sure it varies quite dramatically, but what is a typical margin that a major trading house would make? How much has this fallen over time, and is it still ever possible to make like 40% on a trade?
Hi everyone,
I’m trying to understand how Price Reporting Agencies build their contributor networks.
I’d be interested in speaking with people who are, or have been, contributors to firms like ICIS, Fastmarkets, Argus Media, S&P Global Commodity Insights, Expana/Mintec, or similar providers.
I’m not looking for confidential prices or proprietary data. I’m only trying to understand the general dynamics:
Any perspective from people with direct experience would be very useful. Happy to connect privately as well.
Thanks.
This is my first job post undergrad and I have only been working for 3 months. Ivy League Graduate in Economics. I have UK and US citizenship and speak Russian.
I'm sensing that there is no clear pathway to becoming a Junior Trader at this firm faster than in 4 years. My job as of now barely touches any risk and I do no analytical work - straight traffic and logistics sitting next to the Head Trader, I try to ask her as many questions as possible though and demonstrate my interest in pricing. What kind of pivot might make sense in a year if I am sensing that it might be a dead end at my company? I am particularly interested in a move to London which has more opportunity in metals in the physical trading space.
Hi guys,
I know the general consensus is “doing a masters will not help you break into the industry”, but feel like my non-stem background is kind of different.
I’m a final year at LSE, non-stem, humanities degree. Wanted to work in startups, but culture was too soft and unstructured.
Not going to delve into my interest of commodities, but I don’t have direct work experience on my CV that displays I am interested beyond data analysis projects for a hedge fund guy that trades commodities.
I’m targeting back/middle office roles at trading houses, but I haven’t seen a single job posting that doesn’t have requirements for a relatively quantitative degree (I.e. econ, finance, cs). Therefore, with my humanities degree, I feel pretty hopeless in getting past the screening stage.
I have an offer for a masters in accounting and Finance at LSE. I would have to go into a lot more debt to fund it and I would rather just work as I feel very done with formal education. But it does then give me that quantitive stamp of approval that would enable me to get to an interview.
I am very comfortable with maths and happy to teach myself/do quantitative projects, but there seems to still be that barrier of not having the right undergrad degree to indicate that I’m suitable.
What do you guys think? Should I just continue grinding away, showing I’m passionate about the industry and try and get my foot in the door that way, or is it worth considering this masters to show that I can handle numbers?
Right now, I’m leaning away from the masters, but would like a second opinion from people in the industry.
I know big shops (e.g. citadel) have a big forecasting team but was wondering if anyone here has developed their own model and using it for alpha generation.
I have an interest in meteorology and commodities trading and hoping to combine the two for even just a personal project. I know the markets well enough to know a retail trader doesn’t stand much of a chance due to the likes of citadel etc but I’m interested if it exists.
I got an interview for a nat gas logistics analyst next week and am wondering how to prepare.
I’ve worked as a Marketing Analyst and Trading Analyst in my internships and am now working as a Marketing & Trading Analyst (although it’s mostly scheduling in our backend system and doing deal entry).
In my past experience I’ve done mostly fundamentals analysis, truck scheduling, as well as some weekend on-call scheduling coverage (just account balancing).
The interview I have is supposed to be a long one and I’m just wondering what I should brush up on, emphasize, and know for this interview. Also any ideas of what technical questions I might get asked. They said it is going to be fairly informal with generally no structured questions, but I want to make sure I’m prepared and can nail this interview. Any advice is appreciated.
I’m looking to understand the realistic career paths available after starting in a price reporting agency (Platts, Argus etc.), especially in commodities/energy/metals.
For context, the role involves market reporting, price assessments, speaking to physical market participants, tracking spot trades, supply/demand developments, and writing market commentary.
I’m curious about where people typically move after 1–3 years in this kind of role. For example:
For those who have worked in PRAs or hired people from PRAs, how transferable is the experience? What skills are most valued, and what gaps should someone work on if they eventually want to move closer to trading, origination, or commercial strategy?
Would appreciate any honest perspectives.
I’ve been actively working through is transitioning into a gasoline or distillate trading role, despite having a background that closely aligns with the commercial and analytical aspects of the position.
My career has been built around the energy and commodities space for the past 10 years , starting with roles in accounting and financial operations at a large private commodities firm, where I gained exposure to global asset management, cash flows, and the financial underpinnings of physical commodity businesses. While those roles were not front-office trading positions, they gave me early exposure to the mechanics of how commodity businesses operate and generate value. I moved into a middle office role for a couple years handling a lot of the storage contracts, daily MtM reporting, hedging insights, and day to day operations for a niche fuel blending trading desk. To round out my experience I moved into a commercial role at a large refinery handling the territory wholesale fuel marking for the past three years. In parallel, I completed my MBA, where I focused on strengthening my commercial, strategic, and market-oriented skillset within the energy sector.
More recently, I’ve transitioned into a trading operations role focused on international refined products, where I work closely with gasoline, distillate, and jet fuel markets for the last year.
Despite this progression, I’ve consistently run into a few key challenges when pursuing trading roles:
What makes this dynamic difficult is the inherent experience paradox, trading roles require direct experience, but gaining that experience often requires already being in the role. From my perspective, I’m operating in a space that is highly adjacent to trading, contributing to decision-making and market understanding, but still facing a barrier to fully crossing over.
That said, this process has pushed me to be more intentional in how I position myself and continue developing:
I remain confident that my combination of operational experience, market exposure, and experiences provide a strong foundation for a transition into trading. The challenge is less about capability and more about closing the perception gap between my lack of direct operation roles and front-office roles.
I’d be interested to hear from others who have made similar transitions—what specifically helped you break through that final barrier? It seems that the main feedback is take a scheduling role, however each year I seem to feel the trading role becoming further and further from becoming a reality.
Looking for people who transitioned from a trade/commercial operations role into a trading or merchandising seat at a physical commodities firm, ideally in their 30s.
Financial trading stories not relevant here. Physical commodities only - metals, energy, agri.
If you’ve done it:
• Did it happen internally or did you move firms?
• What specifically enabled the move?
• What do you wish you’d done earlier?
I’m in physical metals ops with solid experience across producer and distributor level. Trying to understand what the path actually looks like from people who’ve done it.
Hey everyone,
I’m a mechanical engineering graduate (24YO) from the University of Houston. I Graduated with a 3.4 GPA and I am currently a Drilling Operations Supervisor for ExxonMobil. I work 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off. My 2 weeks on I live out on site on a drilling rig in west Texas seeing first hand how the Oil industry kicks off with upstream operations. My 2 weeks off grant me a lot of headspace and time which I am using to get an MBA (current GPA: 4.0) from Texas A&M (expected graduation December 2026).
My goal is to get into the world of commodities trading as soon as possible but a more realistic goal is to make the pivot by summer 2027. Crude oil is my main interests but I wouldn’t turn down nat gas, power, or any other energy derivatives. My plan for the pivot it as follows:
Read and educate myself on the logistics and fundamentals of the markets. I’ve currently read:
-The World for Sale
-The King of Oil - Daniel Amman
-Commodity Conversations - Jonathan Kingsman
-Diary of Professional Commodity Trader - Peter L Brandt
I am currently reading Maritime Economics 3rd Edition -Martin Stopford
I found the pdf online for that one since it’s an 800 pg textbook. It breaks down the fundamentals of freight/logistics industry and how it plays a role in the physical trading of commodities very well.
Plan on reading (please let me know of any I should add to the list):
The Prize - Yergin
Oil: money, wealth and power - Bower
The Smartest Guys in the room - Bethany McLean
Hedgehogs - Dreyfus
I’m a huge Texas Hold’em fanatic therefore I read about 1 book a month on poker and play at local poker rooms. I’ve read risk management and emotional control can transfer very well from poker over to trading.
Plan moving forwards:
Network like my life depends on it. I’ve heard from multiple sources that it’s a difficult industry to break into until you have a person on the inside. Since my two weeks off I am in Houston, I spend a lot of time at the Exxon Campus reaching out to people on Exxon’s Trading team looking to have lunch and share my interest in the industry. I also have friends that work in trading @ Repsol (The Woodlands Offices) & McGuire Group (Downtown Houston) which I plan to eat with regularly and ideally have them point me in the direction of their peers which I could also talk to and pick their brain. My ultimate goal in all this is to get into Shell’s Trading Development Program (TDP). It’s my understanding that amongst the Oil Majors Shell’s trading operation is second to none. I have friends that work at Shell (not the trading side) which I plan on using to get in contact with people in their TDP and gain some insight.
I also have a [potential] major in for Shell. My family is amazing friends with the president of crude oil trading for the Americas @ Shell. Although I am very conflicted to attempt to ask him to get me into the TDP. I have a tremendous amount of respect for him and what he has achieved in the industry and would hate to put him in a position where his integrity might be questioned. I also want no body to be able to to claim that I got into the TDP because of him.
What do you guys think about my plan of action? Any flaws in my thinking or any recommendations?
Side Note: I am currently already well versed in the equity markets. I have managed my E*trade account since the age of 18 and have had great returns. I understand enough to know that commodities/futures is a whole different animal, I just wanted it to be known that I’m not attempting to jump into futures with no prior knowledge of financial markets.
I wanted to invest in copper just wanted to check what are the best options that one can consider right now as per the current market scenario!
hey guys, so I have an interview at Peninsula petroleum in a month for their Graduate program and I was wondering if anyone of you have ever done the process which seems quite new. I am looking for advices to prepare..
Thks
Hello everyone.
I have to choose between going to King’s College MSc Finance and Bayes MSc Energy, Trade and Finance. I want to go into commodity trading after my studies.
I know that Bayes is a specialised programme precisely for commodity/energy trading, so it kind of makes sense to go there. But King’s is a much more recognised, Russel group uni.
Assuming that if I go to King’s, I’ll do a lot of self-study of commodities, which programme will give me more opportunities for this industry?
Hello guys !
Hope you are all doing well. I work in an oil trading company and would like to have your opinion on something. I hear some traders on the desk who say that in a backwardation they better price their physical cargo late in the month rather than early (when buying). Flat price is of course assumed hedged and they buy their cargos on an NOR basis (pricing could also be EFP related, it does not matter). They are exposed of course to the roll but i struggle to grasp why they say that the timing within the month matters. Structure can change positively or negatively regardless of the moment in the month. Do they imply that cash is expected to increase as we creep up to the roll ? (they buy their cargos at a fixed premium so they are of course bullish cash as they get long physical but cash follows its own dynamic in my opinion and can be disconnected to structure). I have the feeling that some of them are mixing up forward price with the expected future spot price which are of course completely different.
Pleased to hear your opinion and happy to discuss further.
Hi everyone,
I recently received an offer for a graduate program in Energy Trading at Alpiq in Switzerland (Lausanne or Olten), and I’m trying to understand better both the company and the long-term career prospects.
A few things I’m trying to understand:
One thing I’m thinking about a lot is whether specializing early in power/gas could limit future optionality outside commodities, or whether the experience is still highly transferable to broader trading/market roles.
Would really appreciate opinions from anyone who knows the commodities/energy trading world or has experience with companies like Alpiq.
Thanks a lot!
Recent grad that got an offer for a natty role for a massive firm and will start late into July. Given all of this time, I wanted to see what would be the best way to prep. Reason being, I was in the oil ops side for an internship a couple years back and felt like a dear in the headlights. I learned a ton obviously but can see how it could have some parallels to gas and don’t want to screw this up as it can lose my desk money.
What was excel skills should I sharpen?
How do I become better at the accounting side - reconciling volumes with what is shown internally vs what the pipelines say?
How do I anticipate those situations where 5 things are all due at the same time and have equal importance - like when noms are due?
How can I practice re-directing gas flows when something changes in a deal? I know some shops have flexible agreements where they can be left short or long gas. Or I’m guessing like in oil they could probably change directions to where the gas is being sent. Or like oil I’m guessing there is this idea of being a middleman where you use another shipper from whom you bought gas to deliver it to the counterparty you sold to. This can make keep tracking of the flows and how to balance out very difficult so wanted to see if I can practice this beforehand.
It would be nice to have a scheduling practice sheet if anyone has a non-proprietary version.
Are there any books that would be helpful specifically for scheduling? I know everyone recommends Sturm’s book or Natural Gas Trading in NA but those are trading focused.
My uncle is the managing director of a major coal power plant in Indonesia. Ever since the government legalized the utilization of Fly Ash and Bottom Ash a few years ago, we've been looking at a literal goldmine. They have decades' worth of it hundreds of thousands of tons just sitting on-site.
I want to monetize this, but local demand in my province is basically too little, cannot really move it to another province because we'll lose the pricing. I’m looking into the export market (cement factories, construction, etc.), but I have zero experience with bulk commodities or international logistics.
* How do I find international buyers or brokers for FABA?
* What does the shipping logistics look like for thousands of tons of ash?
* What kind of certifications or testing do global buyers usually look for?
Any advice from commodity traders or logistics experts would be awesome. Thanks!
UAE-based trade & logistics company seeking long-term cooperation with verified EN590 suppliers or direct buyer mandates. Monthly demand capacity up to 100,000 MT through Asian buyers. Preference for DLC-backed transactions and transparent FOB/CIF procedures. Interested in establishing sustainable supply relationships rather than spot speculation.
With the big names you already know where to look but with the smaller shops there’s barely any public presence. Is it purely recruiters reaching out or knowing someone on the inside?
Had a recruiter mention a firm recently and couldn’t find a single thing on them, no way to tell if they’re reputable, what they trade, nothing. I’ve tried filtering LinkedIn by oil and gas filtering down to the smaller headcounts but you still get almost no useful information on what these places are actually like. Feels like even being in the industry you’d never know these places exist unless someone pointed you to them directly.
Currently middle office at an oil major, major is going through a massive reorg so need to start moving and looking at options. How are people actually finding these places?
Recently I read a book which has a sentence like “Derivative traders operate under strict limits that define the maximum loss, commonly known as value at risk(VaR)”
My perspective on it is VaR is the absolute maximum expected loss. Is that right or not?
Cause last time I heard someone particularly mentioned VaR in a speech about Risk management. So I feel like VaR is not that easy concept as I show above.
I am looking forward to hear any views or comments on it, thanks everyone.