r/Confucianism

▲ 3 r/Confucianism+1 crossposts

In traditional chinese philosophy, the successful outcome of every endeavour is bestowed by divine providence alone, and not the result of our actions?

I remember reading an account of Jiang Ziya, who sat by the river without a hook on his fishing line, believing that a fish would come to him in its own time. This is a surprising amount of faith in destiny. The Liezi also affirms this perspective of destiny.

So suppose there are 5 men who sow crops in the same way. 4 men have a bountiful harvest while one man has a failed harvest. This is by Heaven's decree?

Suppose there are 5 men with the same resume. They send out their resume. 4 of the men receive job offers while 1 is ignored by everyone. This is by Heaven's decree?

Please allow me to understand better. All my life, I have been under the impression that success comes from a mixture of genetic determinism (good looks), willpower and skill. But I have been questioning this for a while as I have seen those:

  • without any skill succeed in a certain endeavour,
  • those who apply no effort succeed,
  • those who are ugly succeed, etc.

And there are some who seem 'cursed', whereby no matter what they do, or how they approach the subject, they inevitably fail when by their superior skill or just numerical probability, they should have succeeded by now. But something is preventing the door being opened.

It's incomprehensible, unless the traditional chinese doctrine of divine providence by the mandate of Heaven is believed, which I find it hard to convince myself of, as why would Heaven bestow so much favour on the ungrateful, evil and those who use the blessings for evil.

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u/Yijing1 — 17 hours ago

Fabian Fucan's Ha Daiusu

This is a Confucian refutation of Christianity as created by the Japanese writer and Neo-Confucian Fukansai (Fabian Fucan).

To summarize his religious and scholarly pursuits, he worked as a Jesuit Irmão between 1586 and 1608, before briefly dissapearing from any public engagement and converting out of Catholicism afer losing a debate to the Confucian-Shinto theologian Hayashi Razan. He wrote Ha Daiusu in 1620, known in addition to this text for his Myōtei Dialogues - which he completed for the purpose of Catholic apologetics in 1605.

This translation is taken from 'Sources of Japanese Tradition, 1600 to 2000'. I have appended it slightly as the original text substituted "Deus/Daiusu" with only the character "D" in eloquent font.

---

Seventh Step 

The adherents of Deus claim: The First Commandment is “You shall hold (Deus) dear above all things and Him shall you worship.” It means that one should esteem this (Deus) above even one’s master, above even one’s father and mother. If complying with your master’s or your parent’s orders would mean acting contrary to (Deus)’s will, then refuse to obey, not grudging your life! (...)

To counter, I reply: So you propound a statute in ten articles called mandamentos. But apart from the first of the ten articles, nothing here falls outside the scope of the Five Commandments [of Buddhism] that prohibit killing, theft, adultery, falsehood, and drunkenness (...)

The initial article states, in effect, “In case complying with your lord’s or your father’s orders would mean acting contrary to (Deus)’s will, then disobey them, making light of your life!” In this article lurks the intention to subvert and usurp the country, to overthrow and destroy the Law of the Buddhas and the Royal Sway. Quick, quick! Put this gang in stocks and shackles. 

“One does not usually expect to find precepts for attaining to ultimate good outside the realm of morals constantly preserved in the people’s daily life.” There are many components in moral law, but in sum they amount to no more than the Five Human Relationships. Lord and subject, father and child, husband and wife, elder brother and younger brother, friend and friend—once they discharge their proper duties, what more can they do? And one who deranges these—to what iniquity, to what atrocity would such a one not stoop? 

The duties proper to the lord and the subject are loyalty and its reward. The duties proper to the father and the child - filial piety and parental affection; the duties proper to the husband and the wife—the righteous observance of their separate functions; the duties proper to the elder brother and the younger brother - fraternal service and love; and the duties of friend and friend to each other are fidelity and sincerity. To bestow on humans a nature concordant with these Five Human Relationships is the proper part of Heaven’s Will. And here is how you regard this, you adherents of Deus! To keep from acting contrary to (Deus)’s will, you say, cast aside the subject’s loyalty to the lord, repudiate the bonds of filial piety and of fraternal service! What greater iniquity than this? 

The expression “acting contrary to (Deus)’s will” means, first and foremost, repudiating (Deus) to adhere to the Buddhas and the gods. Consequently, even if the ruler commands, “Convert from the Deus cult to the Buddhas and the gods!” - no matter how strict his orders may be - the adherents of Deus, not grudging their lives, would rather be subjected to the Five Penalties and would delight in it. Look, look! They value the directives of the Bateren above the ruler’s command. They feel a greater debt of gratitude for the preachments of the Bateren than for their own parents’ beneficence. 

Japan is the Land of the Gods. The generations of our sovereigns have received the imperial dignity from Amaterasu Ōmikami through U-gaya-fukiawasezu no Mikoto and his August Child Jinmu Tennō, who became the progenitor of our hundred kings. The Three Divine Regalia are the protectors of the realm; hence, among all the customs of our empire, there is not one that does not depend on the Way of the Gods. The divine Prince Shōtoku, a Buddha manifest in human form, took on the intention of Amaterasu Ōmikami to extend the Way of our land, and to that end he made Buddhism flourish. Since then, our land has also been the Land of the Buddhas. 

And this, this the adherents of Deus plan to subvert! They bide their time with the intent to make all of Japan into their own sectarians and destroy the Law of the Buddhas and the Way of the Gods. Because the Law of the Buddhas and the Way of the Gods exist here, the Royal Sway also flourishes; and since the Royal Sway exists, the majesty of the Buddhas and the gods increases. The adherents of Deus therefore have no recourse but to subvert the Royal Sway, overthrow the Buddhas and the gods, eliminate the customs of Japan, and import the customs of their own countries. Then only will their plan of usurpation advance. 

They have sent troops and taken over such countries as Luzon and Nova Hispania, lands of barbarians close to animals in nature. But our empire surpasses other lands by far in its fierce bravery. For that reason the ambition to usurp this country by diffusing their doctrine, even if it takes a thousand years, has penetrated the very marrow of their bones. But what a gloomy prospect awaits them! For the sake of their doctrine they value their lives less than dust or ashes. Maruchiru (mártir), they call this. When a wise ruler governs the realm, good is promoted and evil chastised. Rewards promote good and punishments chastise evil. There is no greater punishment than to take away life, but the adherents of Deus have no fear of being killed and will not change their religion. How horrible it is! And where did this flagrant wickedness arise? Its origin, one look will show, is in the First Mandamento (Commandment): “You shall hold dear above all things and him shall you worship.” The spread of such a pernicious doctrine is completely the working of the devil. 

There is, however, no need for me to dissect these pernicious teachings into little pieces to proffer to His Highness. Our ruler truly possesses perspicacity and sagacity; he has to hear only one part in ten to understand the whole ten. He has banned this gang and thoroughly stamped it out—a beneficent action that surpasses hundredfold the blessings bestowed on humanity by the sage rulers of another land who, as tradition has it, in ancient times subdued the wild beasts, tamed the flooding waters, and put at ease the dwellings of the people. Wild beasts and flooding waters are inimical to the body. This gang, however, would subvert the truth. They are the enemies of the Buddhas and all law. Worst of all, this is a perfidious band that plots to usurp the country. Who is there that would not hate them? (…)

[Fabian, Ha Daiusu, Hai-Ya sho, in NST, vol. 25, pp. 440–42; JSAE] 

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u/Orcasareglorious — 3 days ago
▲ 22 r/Confucianism+1 crossposts

Why Confucianism Isn't a Religion (And Why That Matters for Korea) | Dr. David Tizzard #132

Watch: here

When we think of Confucianism in the West, we often box it into a category alongside world religions like Christianity or Buddhism: a neat, systematic philosophy created by a single figure. But as I’ve learned through my time in Korea and my own deep dives into the tradition, this is a fundamental misnomer that actually obscures the truth. In this episode, we strip away the Western labels to look at what Confucianism—or as it’s known in the East, Rujia or Yugyo—actually is. It isn’t a religion of divine revelation; it is a scholarly tradition, a social ethic, and a political ideology that prioritizes the lived reality of human relationships.

Confucius wasn't a prophet; he was a teacher of humanity who believed that by mastering the art of being human, we don't just improve our own lives, we manifest heaven on earth.

In this episode:

  • Why Confucianism doesn't fit the Western "religion" box
  • The difference between Rujia, Yugyo, and "Confucianism"
  • How Confucian thought shapes Korean society today
  • What it means to "master the art of being human"

David A. Tizzard has a PhD in Korean Studies and lectures at Seoul Women's University and Hanyang University. He writes a weekly column in the Korea Times, is a social-cultural commentator, and a musician who has lived in Korea for nearly two decades. He can be reached at datizzard@swu.ac.kr.

u/WillGilPhil — 9 days ago