r/DarksoulsLore

Image 1 — What's the deal with the mimics?
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What's the deal with the mimics?

We already know about mimics; in my opinion, they're the mascot of Dark Souls, along with basilisks. Fake chests that, when opened, reveal a living creature, ready to devour the unwary and greedy adventurer seeking treasure within them.

They're inspired by the classic creature from D&D and are present in almost every fantasy story. Dark Souls, being a unique fantasy world, loves to twist classic fantasy tropes and give them a new spin. Humans are portrayed as beings of darkness instead of being beings of light created by the gods. Gods who were born as humans ascended and now pose as superior beings. The dragon who aids the king keeps the princess as his prize instead of a dragon slayer knight. The dark god of death is the most tranquil and innocent of the gods. Demons are humans transformed by an abundance of chaotic life force. And so on and so forth.

So, what's behind the mimics of Dark Souls? Many probably don't know what they are or where they came from, but if you're reading this on this lore channel, you probably already know at least what they are: the description of the symbol of greed in the first game tells us straight up that they are a clan of gods punished for the sin of greed. In the third game, this description doesn't explicitly state that they are a clan of punished gods, but the enemies do possess a characteristic that betrays them as gods: all Mimics are vulnerable to dark damage, just like divine beings or beings of a divine nature: gods, Silver Knights, the Dancer of the Boreal Valley, the Nameless King, Black Knights, etc. There are cases where beings of a fiery nature are weak to darkness, but I think that's more due to the fire-versus-shadow dichotomy than a divine nature. Mimics lack any fiery characteristics, so that's not where their weakness to shadows comes from.

Well, that was easy: Mimics are cursed and punished gods. But who did this to them? Well, given the magnitude of the punishment and the fact that they were once gods, the most obvious answer is that they must have been punished by entities as powerful as, or even more powerful than, the gods. And in this world, the gods are at the top, so it was surely other gods. But that's not all. The Mimics are so closely linked to the gods of Anor Londo that they are always found in or around divine territory. In DS1, we find the first one in Sen's Fortress, what I would call the lobby of Anor Londo. Within the walls of Anor Londo, there are six Mimics in total: one in the upper part of Anor Londo, next to the statue of Smough; three are in the main cathedral; and two more are in the Duke's Archives. The last two Mimics appear in the DLC in Oolacile, the human city favored by the gods, built right at their feet.

In Dark Souls 3, while not as exclusive as in the first game, most Mimics are concentrated in the domains of the gods: Lothric, the city of the new gods, has the first Mimic we encounter and about five more. The other majority are in Irithyll, the city of the old gods. And the rest can be found in places of a debatable divine nature, such as the Cathedral of the Deep, which was once a cathedral of the White Way, or the defiled city with monstrosities that used to be divine maidens. Like Mimics, they are weak to darkness despite resembling the Hand of Manus.

So, mystery solved? We already know what they are and who's responsible... right? Well, I think there's a figure who's primarily responsible for the mimics, and I'll reveal that when I answer one last question... what are mimics? Yes, we already know they WERE gods, but why are they these deadly chests today? Why do the gods keep so many mimics so close instead of cursing them and banishing them far away?

Well, going back to the original mimic and the tendency to subvert fantasy classics in Dark Souls, mimics in D&D are living creatures that pretend to be chests to lure adventurers and devour them, like a carnivorous plant does with flies. I think the mimics in Dark Souls are the opposite; they don't seek to lure unsuspecting victims, but instead seek to keep thieves at bay and protect the treasure inside. Mimics, especially in Dark Souls, hold important and valuable treasures: silver and gold coins, a cursed club capable of harming the gods, enchanted weapons, a key to access the giant archer, and a talking stone (the treasure is in the Beholder's eye, I suppose).

In other words, mimics are a safe, a security system for treasures... but there's a curious detail: we know they work well to keep thieves at bay and prevent them from getting their hands on the treasures they protect. But how do the owners deposit and retrieve their treasures without dying in the attempt? Well, you probably already know the answer, which also answers the question of who among all the gods conceived of mimics. Lloyd, creator of the eponymous talisman capable of preventing the undead from using Estus, but that's not all; there's a secret use that is never told or referenced anywhere, a secret you can only discover by accident. Lloyd's talisman is the key to unlocking the Mimics, allowing the safe removal of treasure and its placement within them.

In Dark Souls 3, we are introduced to the Blade of Justice and Lloyd's Duels of Justice through a ring and another talisman, suggesting that Lloyd may have also been the one who pronounced the sentence that cursed the Mimics.

In conclusion, the Mimics are a clan of cursed gods condemned to serve as safes to keep important treasures safe from thieves. Lloyd is the architect of this monstrosity and possibly the judge who condemned them.

Thank you for reading.

u/Moonless_the_Fool — 10 hours ago

Debunking the Misconception that Twin Humanities are Female Souls

This is a popular idea that I’ve seen pop up again and again within the lore community: that Twin Humanities are the souls of female humans. In this post I’m going to try to explain why people think this [hopefully without strawmanning the idea] and then make the case against it.

On a female corpse in the lower undead burg, surrounded by torch-wielding hollows, is a soul-item that turns out to be Twin Humanities when picked up. Female corpses are rare in Dark Souls, but can be distinguished by the fact that they wear a “bra strap”, while male corpses do not. Those who noticed that this particular corpse is female inferred that the associated item was intended to communicate the suggestion that she was pregnant. It led to the subsequent inference that twin humanities are actually required for the reproductive process, with one of the two becoming the soul of the offspring. It is certainly true, of course, that reproduction within humans would require a duplication of the Dark Soul at some point in the process. Fans also noticed a wider association between Twin Humanities and female characters, with Quelaag, Priscilla, and Pharis all dropping them. Furthermore, all firekeepers are women but the reason for this has never been made clear. We know that firekeepers are hosts to the humanity sacrificed to them so that the bonfires can keep burning, and it sometimes assumed that this might require the person to have two Dark Souls in order to work, although I have never heard a satisfactory explanation [or any explanation for that matter] as to why. This, I think, is the totality of the argument. If there is anything else then you can let me know in the comments.

But now I am going to argue against these points. Twin Humanities are found on male corpses as well as female. There is one in Lost Izalith on the broken bridge above the main bonfire. Granted, that area was rushed so this could be dismissed as a developer oversight. However, there are two more male corpses in the DLC which also yield Twin Humanities. One is on the roof of the large building in Township, the one where the bloat-heads start to get the red eyes. You have to drop down onto a section of roof and then turn around and walk back up the roof and you’ll find a male corpse with Twin Humanities. The other one is in the Chasm of the Abyss at the base of the fallen pillar that you walk down, again it’s a male corpse with Twin Humanities. Now I want to point out two things here:

1-part of the narrative purpose of the DLC is to provide additional clarification regarding elements of the story and lore that people did not pick up on because they were too obscure in the base game. A big part of this is the nature of humanity and the dark, so for the developers to have flubbed these particular item placements seems unlikely.

2-as mentioned before, there aren’t many female corpses in DS1. But every single one [as far as I know] is deliberate and has been included for a clear reasons. They always represent a character who is supposed to be female. Ciaran, Beatrice, Yulva, Dusk, one of the daughters of the witch of Izalith, a maiden of the way of white who was captured by Seath, and all four firekeeper corpses. Not a single mistake has been made here despite the fact that the developers default to male corpses if there isn’t a clear lore reason. And not only this but corpses known to belong to male individuals [such as Tarkus or Jeremiah] are always male, again without any mistakes. It seems that the developers have been very careful to get this right, so for there to be three mistakes [which is what you have to assume if you want to insist on Twin Humanities being female souls], all coincidentally associated with Twin Humanities, seems unlikely to me to say the least.

Of course, it is true that Humanities and souls in general can be in the possession of individuals they didn’t originally belong to. You can buy Twin Humanities from Patches, and he’ll even give you one as an apology gift in the tomb of giants. Obviously these are not his own Humanities, but those he has looted from others. Lautrec will drop a firekeeper soul if you follow his questline and kill him at the end of it, but this does not mean that he is a firekeeper. However these are both cases where we have contextual information for why these characters are in possession of these particular souls. We don’t have any such context for why Twin Humanity would be found on a random corpse somewhere. There’s nothing that tells us that this specific person was a thief who went around looting and murdering before he hollowed. So while it’s perfectly possible for any random individual to be in possession of a soul that originally belonged to a woman, the developers would not put female souls on random male corpses if they wanted to make it clear that the soul in question is female. Notice that we don’t find any firekeeper souls on male corpses despite the fact that just about everyone has a clear motivation to steal this type of soul. So if the developers intended for us to infer that Twin Humanities are indeed supposed to be female souls then they’ve gone a funny way about it.

The second point that needs to be addressed is the fact that Twin Humanities drop from certain female characters. It’s true that the characters mentioned do drop Twin Humanities, but a wider examination of exactly what every character and boss drops will collapse the “pattern”. For one thing, Oswald of Carim will drop Twin Humanities despite being a male character. And every female NPC besides Pharis will either drop regular [single] humanities or none whatsoever. Rhea drops seven, but these are all single individual sprites, and Mildred drops three with one more that can be absorbed via her bloodstain. Sieglinde, Dusk, and Ciaran all drop none.

Then, of course, there’s the bosses. Quelaag and Priscilla both drop Twin Humanities and are also both female. But here’s the thing, the Gargoyles drop Twin Humanities as well, and that’s obviously just a reference to the fact that there’s two of them. In the same way, you get four Humanities from beating the Four Kings. So we can infer that Quelaag drops Twin Humanities because she’s actually two beings fused together, a woman and a spider. Sif is female, but drops only one Humanity, and Gaping Dragon drops Twin Humanities despite no clear indications of gender whatsoever. We might as well associate Twin Humanities with dragons since Priscilla is half dragon, and the Gargoyles look a bit like dragons. Just in case anyone takes that too seriously I’ll also point out that Seath drops 1 Humanity, Kalamete drops none, and neither do other dragons such as the Hellkite. In terms of lore, none of the bosses [besides Manus and Four Kings] should drop humanity at all because none of them are human, and in fact they didn’t in the original release of the game.

http://darksouls.wikidot.com/game-patches#toc4

On this page, if you scroll down to Version 1.05, specifically under “PvE Changes” you’ll see that the following alteration was made:

“Bosses drop Humanity and Homeward Bones”

Of course, this is not so specific as to clarify that only certain bosses drop Homeward Bones, some drop Twin Humanities rather than just one, and two of them don’t drop either. But the point is that this change has been made for gameplay reasons, specifically for the sake of easing progression. We do not assume that Sif is undead because she drops a Homeward Bone, neither do we conclude that she’s human because she drops a Humanity. Therefore we also cannot infer that Priscilla drops Twin Humanities because she’s female. In terms of lore, our character actually isn’t obtaining any Humanity from these bosses.

A further argument against the idea that Twin Humanities are female souls can be extrapolated from the item description, which calls it “very unusual”. This is certainly consistent with our in-game experience, Twin Humanities are much rarer than regular Humanities. Before the DLC there were only a finite number that could be obtained [the DLC makes it possible to farm them from the Humanity Phantoms], and before the 1.05 patch they would have been extremely rare indeed. But here’s the thing: women are half the population, so if Twin Humanities are indeed supposed to be female souls then we’d hardly expect them to be rare. We certainly wouldn’t expect them to be “very unusual”, as their item description claims.

What needs to be made clear is what Humanities actually are. We all know that they’re fragments of the Dark Soul, but it’s not the case that one Humanity sprite is one person’s Dark Soul. Rather, a sprite is a small and rare thing which is occasionally found on corpses, or looted from an undead that you’ve murdered. Of course these corpses are not really corpses as they don’t rot, but are in fact hollows who are so far gone that they’ve stopped moving entirely. And if you kill an undead NPC then they're canonically supposed to resurrect [although probably just as a hollow] because they've still got the immortal Dark Soul within them. Humanity sprites are therefore tiny accumulations of dark that have leaked out from the body due to a weakening Darksign. In that case, a Twin Humanity is probably nothing more than a pair of accumulations which have occurred close together without combining. We can see why this would be very unusual, but the DLC seems to clarify the phenomenon.

The behaviour of the Humanity Phantoms in the Chasm of the Abyss is quite interesting, because they will sometimes move toward you and sometimes move away. It’s almost as if they’re driven by two conflicting motivations, one which desires to consume your soul, and another that fears destruction. So they can’t seem to decide if they want to “attack” you or avoid you, and this may explain the Twin Humanities. They’re driven to recombine, but also driven apart, and this combination keeps them in a perpetual “stalemate” where they end up doing neither. For this reason you can pick them both up together as though they were a single item. u/BarryTheButcher has some further thoughts on this in an interesting post that I’ll link here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarksoulsLore/comments/1t76bs1/the_hedgehogs_dilemma/

BTW you guys would not believe how many times I accidentally wrote “Twin Humanitities” and had to correct it. I guess there’s such a thing as a Freudian typo lmao.

u/Jam_99420 — 12 hours ago
▲ 240 r/DarksoulsLore+1 crossposts

The world of Dark Souls I based on what I think each in-lore locations European equivalent is

u/Whibbz — 5 days ago

What Velka does - the curse on humanity

In this text I will explain what the will of Velka is. Instead of going off deep speculation, I think 4 setpieces of the games and 1 lore description paints her story.

So first, it is obvious that she punishes sinners, but she also provides absolution. In exchange of souls, any sin is forgivable. Oswald of Carim indeed represents a pardoner, but everything about it speaks corrupt.

This line of thinking reveals her actions. Why? Because of the most mysterious item of hers, ring of sacrifice:

"This mystical ring was created in a sacrificial rite of Velka, the Goddess of Sin.
The magenta-shaded ring is especially rare. Its wearer will lose nothing upon death,
and will be freed from any curse whatsoever, but the ring itself breaks"

First, the magenta shows that this relates to Velka based on her description. But what is less obvious is that this expands on the less effective ring. Mechanically it prevents curses, but the original, green ring, prevents death the same.

You will lose nothing on death! She sold this premise to the humans, as a mockery and revenge to Gwyn's curse.

The painting confirms how she achieved this. And yes I mean the one in Friede's room. There are 2, and this is important, two witches of izalith, given away by their tattered clothes, with a sword that looks related to Carim or the Sable Church.

They have stabbed two white snakes, representing covetous ring: covetous souls!

They are also burning humans. They are in dark woods, a common and plausible area, close to a church. This could represent the church of Londor.

There are 3 sable sisters, and I think this is also important. As the ring of sacrifice, prevents curses, but has three people. So I presume what is happening here reflects on Friede.

She left her sisters and gave up on choosing fire. Meaning she gave up on sacrificing humans.

It should be clear that the witches of Izalith are the ancestors of the 3 sisters, and they have carried on their will!

Yet, their will seems to be burning and killing humans and greedy serpents? There is an answer to this too: The new londo and ringed city soul masses, look like they are a burnt, melted mass of souls.

CONCLUSION:

Velka gave humans a mean to fight the gods via sacrifice. The implication is that she is a witch of Izalith, behind the disasters of flame in the games. I think that her soul could not die due to her powers, but then it transformed into the soul of Rosaria over time. Because there wasn't humans to sacrifice. Her sacrificial rite involved burning someone who had a dark soul. This likely caused the Izalith incident (possibly ending her life, at least for an age).

u/HardReference1560 — 5 days ago

Why are there basically no official renders of the Witch of Izalith?

I’ve been looking around for high-quality renders or official artwork of the Witch of Izalith in her original form, but there doesn’t seem to be anything out there apart from what’s shown in the opening cinematic. I can’t even find anything that depicts her entire body in detail.
So where can I find something? I’d be interested to see stuff from the Japanese art books or developer materials if they exist as well.

u/Wise_Speed_1738 — 7 days ago

I have a question regarding humans and undeads.

What is the general consensus about the state of humans in the world. watching and reading others view of the world and lore it seems like they have took as fact that all humans in the world of dark souls are now undeads that upon death are going to rise again and again until they loose their sanity and become mindless hollows. Basically taking as a fact that mortal humans are not more more. But the gains seem to make the distinction between human with a mortal life and undeads, that humans hunt and pursue undeads in constant witchunts and in ds1 with even one character in lordran being a human who has no opportunity to come back alive when she dies (Siglinde) told to us by the Catarina knight.

So... is the world depraved from humans since the moment gwyn linked the first flame? when he placed the dark sign on our ancestors? or actually, mortal humans are still around living a short and single life while undeads are a threat and a distinct group from them? with people misunderstanding the lore and thinking that only undeads remain

reddit.com
u/Moonless_the_Fool — 5 days ago
▲ 6 r/DarksoulsLore+1 crossposts

Dark Souls Lore to teach in the Classroom? Pls Help!

This may be an odd question, but I thought this sub reddit would be the best place to ask.

I am an English teacher who is trying to come up with more creative activities to teach critical thinking and analysis to high schoolers. I love the dark souls games and I love how much of the story telling is done through the environment, descriptors, and general design. I'd love to be able to teach these skills via dark souls, but I'm not exactly a lore expert.

Would any of you know what would be a few good examples to be able to teach who is related to who, events, and/or general world lore. Ideally the students would not need to know anything too intense about the game (beyond the initial cut scene perhaps). I'd love for it to be a puzzle sorta thing, but I don't know enough to be able to pick out good pieces.

If anyone has any aspects from the game that could be used for something like this I'd love to know! Thank you so much for reading!

Edit: I teach high school students (age 13-18 ish) and class sizes here are about 25-30 students

reddit.com
u/BeginningOutcome6780 — 6 days ago

Filianore was the "unknown origins" of the Chloranthy Ring and the Grass Crest Shield

I don't believe I'm discovering anything new, I've known people who also believe this and you could even say that the (likely) relation between Filianore and the Grass items is easy to make. But it's a topic that I've rarely seen being discussed, hence why I'm posting about it.

First, I'm just quickly showing the items and environmental context around Filianore in DS3, and connecting the dots (I'm not sure if we can consider this entirely a theory, but we'll see). For items, I'm only using the original JP descriptions and its translations (with context on the relevant characters, if needed).

TSDR: It's actually not that long, you can just directly go to the last section.


Items Descriptions (JP)

Chloranthy Ring (DS1)

>大輪の緑花を象った古い指輪
その意匠は独特で、由来は分かっていない
An old ring shaped like a large green flower.
Its design is unique, and its origin is unknown.

Chloranthy Ring (DS3)

>大輪の緑花を象った古い指輪
だが美しい緑は、とうに失われている
An old ring shaped like a large, vibrant green flower
But that beautiful green has long since faded.

Grass Crest Shield (same in DS1 & DS3)

>由来の分からぬ、古い中型の金属盾
草紋には弱い魔力が込められているようで
わずかではあるがスタミナ回復速度が上がる
An old, medium-sized metal shield of unknown origin.
The grass crest seems to contain a weak magical energy.
slightly increases stamina recovery speed.

Young Grass Dew

>かつて若草の緑の紋章を飾ったという
澄みきった、小さな半貴石
戦いの後、教会の槍が手にする名誉であり
与えられる加護の力を、僅かに増すという
A small, clear, semi-precious stone that once adorned the green crest of young grass.
said to be the honor held by the church's spear after battle and to slightly increase the power of the protection bestowed upon it.

Spears of the Church

>緑に錆びた若草の飾り
若草は王女フィリアノールの紋章である
A garland of rusted green grass.
The grass is the crest of Princess Filianore.


Connecting the dots

The Spears of the Church covenant item straight up tells us that the grass is Filianore's crest. The Grass Crest Shield, as well as the vegetation surrounding her inside of her chamber should resonate with that idea.

The Chloranthy Ring and the Spears of the Church covenant item share the same green color. The Ring has long-lost its vibrant green and the Spears item is said to be rusted, and yet their colors still look alike, almost as if they were made of the same material.

Also, we can speculate that the green gem-stone in the center of the Chloranthy Ring could be a Young Grass Dew. The Young Grass Dew is a semi-precious stone that, while held, slightly enhances blessing to Spears of the Church (increases stats and poise when summoned by Argo). Although the effects on the playerar are different , that aspect of the Young Grass resembles the stamina recovery effect acquired by the Ring.

The Green Flower was always believed to be a symbol of the Gods. We find it in Anor Londo, Heide's Tower of Flame, Archdragon Peak & Irythill. That's why it was also believed that the Chloranthy Ring's "unknown origins" was the Gods themselves. The previous two points could merge with this one and propose that the Ring was originally representing Filianore.

The doors in Filianore's chamber have symbols that resemble the patterns on the Grass Crest Shield. It might be a stretch, but they're a little similar at least (4th posted image, for reference).

Thanks for reading.

u/Medinovzky — 9 days ago

Londor and every of its item connections with DS1 & DS2

There's a good bunch of items whose descriptions mention Londor and their founders. However, here I'm only posting the ones that can be directly connected with anything from the previous games. Not a theory at all, although I sometimes add some notes that, I believe, are fair to assume.

In advance, I tell you, there's a lot of recurrent patterns here, most of them are basically:

  1. Velka, the most well-known connection.
  2. Earthen Peak and the NPC/Enemies found there.
  3. Fenito & Milfanito, as well as the Gutter, implying connection with Nito.
  4. Primordial Serpents, another well-known connection.
  5. Carim. Not directly stated, but implied the Purging Stones & Velka.

TSDR: It's actually not that long, you can just read the items that quickly catch your attention. This is not a theory, just trying to connect some dots by showing all the descriptions side by side.


Weapon: Darkdrift

The sword used by both Agdayne in DS2 and Yuria in DS3.

DS2

>Katana of Grave Warden Agdayne.
Has a crystal-clear blade and a strong attack that slices through enemy shields.
This katana was originally wielded by the one who gave us the first death, and still exists imperfectly between planes.

DS3

>A cursed sword with an unseen blade, the choice weapon of Yuria of Londor.
Yuria, a mentor of the Sable Church and accomplished swordswoman, is said to have claimed a hundred lives with this weapon.


Weapon: Manikin Claws

Used by the Manikins from Earthen Peak and by the Pale Shade of Londor in DS3.

They're originally known as "Puppet's Claws" in the Japanese version.

DS2

>Knife of the manikins of Harvest Valley.
The peculiar art of puppetry is a vestige of the two lost lands.
The Queen, entranced by poison, used it to beckon unknowing souls to the defiled valley.

DS3

>Weapon of the Pale Shades, assassins of the Sable Church of Londor.
The curved claws cause heavy bleeding.
When two-handed, claws are equipped to each hand.


Weapon: Dark Hand

Given by Kaathe in DS1 and sold by Yuria in DS3. Obtained from Darkwraiths in both games.

DS1

>The Darkwraiths, incited by Kaathe, use the power of the dark soul to absorb humanity, an art shared by this weapon, which also acts as a special shield.
The ancients, particularly, could sap the humanity of even a replete saint in the blink of an eye.

DS3

>Weapon that allows its wielder to evoke an art unique to Londor, the land of the Hollow.
It is also said to be an ancient relic of a Primordial Serpent.
The Dark Hand mercilessly saps the essence of its victims, and can also double as a special shield.


Miracle: Vow of Silence

In DS1, it's found in the Painted World of Ariamis. In DS3, it can be learnt from either Irina or Karla after giving them the Londor Braille Divine Tome.

DS1

>Secret rite of the black-haired witch Velka.
Prevents casting of magic within effect area.
Velka, the Goddess of Sin, is a rogue deity, but she is versed in arts both new and old, and is considered to have a great range of influence even as gods are concerned.

DS3

>Miracle of the Sable Church of Londor.
Prevents spells in vicinity, including one's own.
Members of the Sable Church are all trained swordsmen, each sworn only to their weapons as they bear the leaden silence of Londor.


Miracle/Hex: Dark Weapon (DS2) / Dark Blade (DS3)

Those spells have the same image in the inventory and apply the same effect to the right hand. Different name, but they're the same spell.

In DS2, it's purchased from Felkin. In DS3, it can be learnt from either Irina or Karla after giving them the Londor Braille Divine Tome.

DS2

>Felkin the Outcast applied his art to transform Magic Weapon into a hex.
Adds dark damage to the types of damage the weapon already inflicts.
Those who choose the path of dark are admonished by all manner of sorcerers.
But this does not stop the curious from being drawn to this strangely alluring craft.

DS3

>Miracle of the Sable Church of Londor.
Reinforces right weapon with dark.
The third daughter Liliane, one of the founders of the Sable Church, is said to recount tales that portray the suffering and conflict of Hollows.


Miracle/Hex: Dead Again

In DS2, this hex can be bought from Chloanne. In DS3, it can be learnt by either Irina or Karla after giving them the Londor Braille Divine Tome.

DS2

>Hex that casts a dark flame upon corpses, causing them to combust violently.
Hexes such as these, that tamper with life itself, are particularly abhorred.

DS3

>Sacrilegious miracle of the Sable Church of Londor.
Bless corpses, transforming them into traps.
Londor, the Hollow Realm, is a society of undead, comprised of the corpses and shades of those who led unsavory lives. Is such blessing really something one must ponder?


Miracle: Atonement

Found in Farron Keep in DS3.

It produces the same effect on the player as the Skull Ring ("One of Courland's transposed wonders. Derived from the soul of a Soulfeeder") & the Mourning Shield (Eygon's shield, whose set and weapons are connected with Caitha).

>Miracle given to those cast out from the Sable Church of Londor.
Attracts more attention from foes.
This is the only tale known by the exiles, who believe it carries words of forgiveness. Cursed journeys, too, must ultimately come to an end.


Ring: White Ring (DS2) & Untrue White Ring (DS3)

Both of them make the wearer appear as a phantom.

DS2

Can be obtained by trading Smooth & Silky Stone or Petrified Something with Dyna & Trillo.

>A precious ring which grants the protection of Quella, god of dreams.
Makes its wearer appear as a phantom, misleading invaders.
He who sets the trap must be wary.
For traps are known to spring upon their owners.

DS3

It's sold by Yuria of Londor.

>One of the illusory rings worn by the Hollows of Londor.
Take the appearance of a phantom.
The Hollows of Londor are wretchedly aged, fraught with deceit, and dubiously secretive.
It is no wonder that they are deeply detested.


Ring: Ring of the Dead (DS2) & Untrue Dark Ring (DS3)

Both are used to keep human appearance even when Hollow.

DS2

Obtained from the Milfanito that's imprisoned in Drangleic Castle.

>The wearer of this ring appears human even when Hollow.
They say that in the Undead Crypt, we can reacquaint ourselves with the dead.
We all suffer loss. And none of us can escape death. Then, what is the fascination with reclaiming that which has already passed into the beyond?

DS3

Sold by Yuria of Londor.

>One of the illusory rings worn by the Hollows of Londor.
Retain human appearance while Hollow.
The Hollows of Londor are wretchedly aged, fraught with deceit, and dubiously secretive. It is no wonder that they are deeply detested.


Ring: Clutch Rings

The rings that, respectively, increase fire, magic, lighting & dark attack, but compromises damage absorption. The ones whose design looks like a crow's foot clutching a gem-stone.

They're originally called "Strange Hand Rings" in Japanese.

DS2

>Ring depicting a hand grasping a stone.
Increases [element] attack, but reduces physical defense.
The origin of this ring is unknown, but its design suggests one of the darker deities.

DS3

>Ring depicting a hand grasping a [color] stone.
Increases [element] attack, but compromises damage absorption.
An old fable in Londor claims that the lure of the clutch ring reaches out to the crestfallen, who might otherwise be overcome by despair.


Item: Purging Stone

DS1

>Ash-colored stone encasing a skull. Secret treasure of Arstor, the Earl of Carim.
Reduces curse build-up and breaks curse.
Humans are helpless against curses, and can only redirect their influence. The Purging Stone does not dispel curses, but receives them as a surrogate. The stone itself was once a person or some other being.

DS3

>Ash-colored stone encasing a skull.
Reduces undead curse build-up and cures hollowing.
Inhabitants of Londor, the land of Hollows, use this secret treasure to feign normalcy. Occasionally, a Hollow fools even himself, and turns on his own kind.


Item: Poison Throwing Knife

A recurrent item from the games. Only the description from DS3 seems to have any relevant lore. However, it's worth mentioning where these knives are obtained.

In DS1, they're sold by the Female Undead Merchant (who sells Transient Curses, items related to New Londo). In DS2 they're sold by Gavlan, as well as dropped by the Manikins from Earthen Peak and Abandoned Hollows in The Gutter.

DS3

>A throwing knife dipped in poison. Throw at enemies to inflict poison damage.
Used by assassins of Londor, land of Hollows. The poison is jokingly known as Hollow's blood.


Item: Sword of Avowal

Actually not the item itself. But this sword is seemingly a symbol of Londor, or something like that. In DS3, the symbol is found in:

  • The Road of Sacrifices, normally surrounded by Poisonhorn Bugs, enemies found in Harvest Valley, Earthen Peak and The Gutter in DS2.
  • The Ringed City, where lots of statues of Primordial Serpents can be found, implying a connection with them.

Without mentioning the fact that, when doing the Usurpation of Fire ending, the ritual the Ashen One gets involved is performed in Gwyn's tomb in Anor Londo.


Goddess: Velka

I believe it's the most well-known relationship between Londor and DS1. I won't even expand too much,

  • Her miracle Vow of Silence is taught in Londor.
  • Yuria sells Rings of Sacrifice, which are made in sacrificial rites of Velka.
  • Crows/corvians imagery, normally assumed to be related to Velka in DS lore.

And even if I'm keeping it short, I'm sure many get the idea. If I'm leaving a major connection out, please let me know.


Place: Earthen Peak

This placed has already been mentioned a couple of times throughout the post and its possible connection with Londor could be clear by now. However, there's still something relevant worth mentioning in regard to this place.

In DS3, the ruins of this place makes a comeback in the DLC, in which we find two Angels being controlled by their respective Grotesque Londor Grower. The fact that they're there, at the age where all ages are collapsing on one another, might be a clue on the way that Earthen Peak was somehow involved in the origin of Londor.

A stretch? Of course. But there was always the question of "Why of all places is the Earthen Peak making a comeback?" and this might propose that the choice wasn't random and a connection with DS3 might be there.


Thanks for reading.

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u/Medinovzky — 6 days ago

the Humorism of Dark Souls

This post is about the Four Humors “theory” of medicine, which was developed by the ancient greeks and remained in use through the middle ages. Though it is currently considered both obsolete and disproven, it does have a psychological element which I suspect to have been part of Miyazaki’s inspiration. At the very least Humorism is known to have some overlap with Alchemy [and the latter is indisputably a major influence on Miyazaki's work], so we shall find some correlation between the Four Humous and elements of Dark Souls lore. In this post I’m going to explain what the Four Humors are, and examine possible in-universe equivalents for Dark Souls.

The Humours are four types of body fluids that were believed to be essential, in the correct balances, to a person’s health. It was therefore believed that poor health was the result of a person having too much, or too little, of one or more of these fluids. This is what led to the practice of bloodletting, which was believed to treat illnesses thought to result from an excess of blood in the patient’s body. It was also believed that a person’s psychology was determined by the balance of these fluids, and this is what we will look at in this post. As a reference, I’m going to leave a link to the Wikipedia page of the Four Temperaments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_temperaments

Blood

the most obvious of the Four Humors, I doubt that I need to explain what blood is or why it has the following associations under Humourism:

“People with this temperament tend to be lively, sociable, carefree, talkative, and pleasure-seeking. They may be warm-hearted and optimistic. They can make new friends easily, be imaginative and artistic, and often have many ideas. They can be flighty and changeable; thus sanguine personalities may struggle with following tasks all the way through and be chronically late or forgetful.”

-Wikipedia

Blood is associated with the “element” of air, and in Alchemy it’s equivalent is apparently Tin/Jupiter. This does not make sense to me, as Tin is associated with material wealth and power, and this is why Gwyndolin’s catalyst is made of Tin. I would think that the Humor of Blood would align better with the Alchemical associations for Copper/Venus, which include youthful energy and fertility [since blood is understood to be life-giving] among other things. I’d propose that in Dark Souls blood should be equated to the element of light, especially since there is an association between white souls and blood. You retrieve your souls from your bloodstain, and touching another person’s bloodstain shows you their ghost. Miyazaki doubles down on the association between blood and the soul in Bloodborne, but it’s roots are already present in DS1.

Bile

this is a yellowish liquid produced by the liver and stored in the gallbladder. It’s main function is digestive, but it also acts as an irritant if your skin is exposed to it, causing a burning sensation. Small wonder then that should have the following associations:

“People with this temperament tend to be egocentric and extroverted. They may be excitable, impulsive, restless, with reserves of aggression, energy, and/or passion, and try to instil that in others. They tend to be task-oriented and are focused on getting a job done efficiently; their motto is usually "do it now." They can be ambitious, strong-willed, and like to be in charge. They can show leadership, are good at planning, and are often practical and solution-oriented. They appreciate receiving respect and esteem for their work.”

-Wikipedia

Bile is associated with the “element” of fire, and in Alchemy it’s equivalent would be Iron/Mars. It probably goes without saying that fire, in Dark Souls, has many of the same associations. If Gwyn is any judge then we’d undoubtedly describe fire as being active, aggressive, and egocentric.

Phlegm

this is an umbrella term for several different body fluids, especially if they are white/clear in colouration. Examples include saliva, pus, mucus, and sweat. The brain may also have been associated due to it’s white colour, and because it’s consistency is almost liquid. As for it’s associated temperaments:

“People with this temperament may be inward and private, thoughtful, reasonable, calm, patient, caring, and tolerant. They tend to have a rich inner life, seek a quiet, peaceful atmosphere, and be content with themselves. They tend to be steadfast, consistent in their habits, and thus have steady and faithful friends.”

-Wikipedia

Phlegm is associated with the “element” of water, and in Alchemy it’s equivalent is Silver/Luna. Thinking of Dark Souls, this type of temperament reminds me most of Big Hat Logan. It is appropriate that this Humor is the opposite of Bile, which is associated with fire. In Dark Souls the sun is a manifestation of fire, so it is appropriate that fire’s opposite [water] corresponds to Luna [the Moon] also. Furthermore, the moon in Dark Souls is associated with sorcery, so you can see how these associations are beginning to add up.

Black Bile

of the Four Humors, this one seems to be entirely imaginary. There is no real body fluid that this corresponds to, but it’s association is with depression and death. In fact, the word “melancholy” is literally greek for “black bile”.

“People with this temperament may appear serious, introverted, cautious, or even suspicious. They can become preoccupied with the tragedy and cruelty in the world and are susceptible to depression and moodiness. They may be focused and conscientious. They often prefer to do things themselves, both to meet their own standards and because they are not inherently sociable.”

-Wikipedia

Black Bile is associated with the “element” of earth, and in Alchemy it’s equivalent would obviously be Lead/Saturn. Given the item descriptions for the dark sorceries, I’m increasingly inclined to think of the dark as a conceptual stand-in for Alchemical Lead as well as the Jungian concept of the Shadow. Black Bile is therefore a dead ringer for both Alchemical Lead and the dark in Dark Souls. The description for the Dark Orb sorcery describes the dark as being physically heavy, and dark sorceries also deal split magic and physical damage. The weightiness of dark, as specified by this sorcery description, helps to tie it to lead [which is known for being heavy, even among metals] as well as the "element of earth", which Black Bile is associated with.

u/Jam_99420 — 9 days ago

The locations are chronologically disorganized, many of the different kingdoms are set on the same land across time

Time is only an effect of disparity, and therefore reliant on the existence of the First Flame. When the flame begins to fade time starts getting wonky.

By DS3, linear time doesn't exist at all.

I think many of the kingdoms we travel to throughout the games, even within the same game, are actually the same location existing paradoxically side-by-side.

Here's the timeline as I see it, vaguely, all the same country across different ages:

Anor Londo & Oolacile -> AL & Lordran -> AL & Irithyll -> Eleum Loyce -> Drangleic -> Lothric

Yes, I think Irithyll was the immediate age following right after DS1, alongside Aldrich and Farron Swamp.

In the linear timeline (sans. fading of the flame) after Aldrich kills Gwyndolin Anor Londo collapsed, Eleyum Loyce was eventually built over that same land; The chaos of Izalith arose as the Old Chaos and that whole mess plays out.

Numerous other kingdoms rise and fall after Eleyum Loyce, Olaphis amongst them, and later Drangleic. Iron Keep and Shulva exist contemporarily with Drangleic, I think Shulva is where Izalith was, the fire completely burned out. Carthus and Smoldering Lake were contemporary with Irithyll, so chronologically before DS2. Shouldering Lake is the past of Shulva, before Eleyum Loyce even.

Lothric is at the end of time, it's the center of the converging lands, essentially a timeless singularity. Lothric exists in the same state as the Kiln and Dreg Pit and Ringed City, at the end.

Lothric was built on the same mountain peak as Anor Londo, and Irithyll, and Eleyum Loyce, the last city to stand there.

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u/UrdnotSentinel02 — 9 days ago

If the Ringed City's outer ring is there to isolate them from the rest of the world, 1) why is it missing such a huge chunk? 2) why has nobody left the place when the barrier is gone? 3) why bother with a barrier when you need batwing demons to fly from and to anyway?

u/abca98 — 11 days ago

Gwyndolin initially questions if you are "a true disciple of the Dark Sun", because to find him you need the Darkmoon Seance Ring, which is given to his followers. But it's the first time you meet each other, so of course you didn't get it from him.

u/abca98 — 10 days ago