Furthermore, she told Himejima that she would never want to settle down or marry anyone (when she was a child and when Kanae was still alive, even before joining the Demon Slayer Corps). They manage to track down Gyomei Himejima, their savior, thanks to the Corps' support agents (the Hidden Ones).

They go to his house, pose as housekeepers, and demand to become his disciples in order to join the organization.

Gyomei, scarred by a past that has made him distrustful of humans, initially tries to dissuade them.

For him, their happiness would lie in living a normal life as young girls with their adoptive parents.

The sisters insist with unwavering determination.

Finally, Gyomei puts them through a series of extremely difficult trials; seeing them overcome them, he agrees to recommend them to weapons masters (official tutors) for training. Shinobu and Kanae each pass. They trained separately, then met again for the final entrance exam into the Corps, which they both passed.

Kanae would later become a Flower Pillar before being killed in battle.

The sisters' father often told them:

"If you see someone bending under a heavy burden, share it.

If someone is troubled, reflect with them.

If someone is sad, stay by their side and comfort their heart."

This deeply empathetic upbringing shaped the two sisters.

From childhood, Shinobu displayed an extraordinary talent for medicine.

She used medicinal plants from the family garden to create her own remedies, teaching herself the basics, which foreshadowed her future research on wisteria poisons. Kanae, mortally wounded by Doma when she was only 17, entrusted Shinobu with one last wish:

that she leave the Corps and live She longed for a life of "normal girl."

Shinobu would not follow this wish: she remained a demon slayer, developed a poison capable of killing demons, and eventually took over from her sister as a Pillar.

After Kanae's funeral, Shinobu permanently adopted that constant smile.

It was a mask in homage to her sister, and an emotional armor to contain her hatred.

In her youth, before all these tragedies, Shinobu was rather direct, quick-tempered, with almost perpetually furrowed brows.

This is evident when she and Kanae first met Kanao Tsuyuri: Shinobu, outraged to see a little girl held by a rope by "the man who buys people," created chaos by throwing money into the street to divert attention and ran away with the child. This impulsive, very active, and frank Shinobu is probably her true nature, buried beneath her courteous mask.

Even younger, she was a child very attached to Her parents are clingy and affectionate, according to Kanae.

However, she has a rather unexpected fear: she doesn't much like furry animals like dogs or cats.

Hello, as a fan of Demon Slayer, I'm at a bit of a dilemma when it comes to some of the missing breathing forms. I figured we could come together as a community to discuss potential place holder names for the styles and give them descriptions.

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Flame Breathing has 8 forms, 9 if you include Kyojuro's Esoteric Art, but only forms 1-5 + 9 have been seen and have been given descriptions and visual apperances. That still leaves 6, 7 (its not funny), and 8 left.

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So let's try and come up with some concepts for the forms

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—Known Forms

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➺1st Form, Unknowing Fire: The user charges at the opponent at blinding speeds and instantly decapitates them in a single or multiple slashes that burn the flesh of the target.

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➺2nd Form, Rising Scorching Sun: An upward, arching slash attack.

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➺3rd Form, Blazing Universe: A massive, arcing downward swing.

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➺4th Form, Blooming Flame Undulation: A circular slash used defensively to deflect incoming attacks or simultaneously decapitate multiple enemies.

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➺5th Form, Flame Tiger: A powerful series of sword slashes that takes the visual form of a flaming tiger charging at blinding speeds.

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➺ 「 Esoteric Art 」9th Form, Rengoku: An esoteric art passed down through the Rengoku family. The user ignites their fighting spirit and unleashes a devastating inferno. When executed, the massive aura of a dragon appears.

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—Missing Forms

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➺6th Form

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➺7th Form

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➺8th Form

Databook explicitly says Kanao's "tsuguko nakama", ie, fellow tsuguko. They do not show up in any of the flashbacks of or before Kanae's death. Maybe some of them were around but not anyone's tsuguko yet.

Kanao was immediately sent on CONSTANT missions upon joining the Corps. (Ie, after she passed Final Selection). She's distinguished herself the MOST out of her Selection batch and rose to a higher rank. These "tsuguko nakama" were killed one after the other, and Kanao began to build up anger over the tsuguko and other soldiers who were kind to her being killed.

But notice something? It's been less than 2 months since these three "treated like sisters" tsuguko were killed by the time Tanjiro, Inosuke and Zenitsu arrive to the Butterfly Mansion. Absolutely NO MENTION WHATSOEVER of them. No grave scenes. No reminiscing. No sudden tears remembering these RECENTLY KILLED sisters. Not even an off-hand comment.

This "moving on" power is pretty exceptional. Shinobu was purposefully trying to get Kanao killed, and what she was really angry about was that the one tsuguko she WANTED to die didn't. Kanao's voice of the heart was still very small and she herself wasn't aware of her anger at that stage (databook). BUT WHAT ABOUT AOI? Naho, Kiyo and Sumi? Literally nothing?

Was bringing them up an absolute taboo because Shinobu would get enraged? Or did she order the others to never talk about them to Kamaboko, ie, because she intended to bring them in? The three little girls seemed scared of her in the flashback so maybe that's what it was. Still, it's weird.

Kokushibo's level

Not only Kokushibo is 2 ranks above Akaza in ranks, he says that he's the only Upper Moon capable of "fighting effectively". Whether you overlook that statement or not, the gap is still significant between him and Akaza.

Gyomei's level

Gyomei then goes on to indirectly reference Yoriichi, which is something that clearly got under Kokushibo's skin. You can literally see the vein popping out on his neck, as he doesn't let Gyomei finish his sentence and appears directly in front of him, then goes for his neck. At this point, Kokushibo genuinely wanted Gyomei gone.

Despite that, Kokushibo does not land a hit once, Gyomei parries his attack and the two clash evenly for the 2 next pages until Sanemi joins the fight.

Akaza, also the same dude who holds a grudge against Tanjiro and says he'll "spill his brains out," in chapter 67, page 11. Yet from Chapters 147-149, in their rematch, he can't land a single hit on him. It isn't until he uses Afterglow, which is his strongest technique that he finally hits him.

So a full power Gyomei slams Akaza with little to no difficulty while we're at it.

Sanemi & Giyu's feats

Sanemi is relative to that same Gyomei (there is no massive gap between them as fighters) that is because of how well they were able to coordinate against Kokushibo which led to Kokushibo struggling to keep up and get forced into pulling his Long Sword. Kokushibo even comments on how quickly they synchronize their attacks.

That level of coordination isn't possible if one fighter is significantly slower than the other because one would constantly fall behind, and the teamwork would completely fall apart. Like how Tanjiro could not properly assist base Giyu in combat against Akaza and his attempts literally amounted to nothing and Tanjiro just became a liability and has to watch them fight, which shows us that Tanjiro was not relative to that Giyu at that point of the story.

My point here is to show how being able to keep up with another's speed to coordinate in a 2v1 is a form of relativity.

Sanemi & Giyu's sparring match

The main basis people use to justify their equality.

First, Giyu can't fully evade Sanemi's first form and the best he can do is block it, with his sword getting chipped. On the other hand, Sanemi completely avoids Giyu's Fourth Form while being in the air and calls him "too slow."

Some people argue Sanemi only said that because he dislikes Giyu, but Sanemi hates demons far more than he dislikes Giyu (check his backstory,) yet when he fights Kokushibo, he openly acknowledges how fast Kokushibo is. If Sanemi is willing to admit the speed of someone he hates even more, why assume he was lying or taunting about Giyu being too slow? Maybe he said that because it actually is the case.

Sanemi & Gyomei

But even if you ignore all of that and still think Sanemi and Giyu were equal during the spar, Sanemi later says to Gyomei, "Good thing we trained together!" during their fight agaisnt Kokushibo. While the following is only an interpretation, it perfectly makes sense to assume that Sanemi, who was previously on Giyu's level via their sparring match, went to train with Gyomei, who is like I said before, a lot stronger than that.

The results of Sanemi training with Gyomei are shown through how they can effectively coordinate against Kokushibo, hence why Sanemi says "good thing we trained together!" during that same moment, because their "training together" is what allowed them to reach a level that is comparable to each other in terms of combat ability, shown through their effective coordination agaisnt Kokushibo.

This my Question and as someone who read lots of Villains comic books and a Remake of a previous Thread on this Sub Reddit

In Shonen usually the Villains we don't hear there story much modern Shonen has improved that but not by much you know it's some steps in that direction but still room for Improvement

With that in mind what do you think about a Spin-off about Upper Ranks set a decade or two before the events of main story showing how they got where they are in main story the events in Demon Slayer: Kimetsu No Yaiba showed there origin but there still some gaps that need to be filled in

Since this would be a Prequel how many years until events of Demon Slayer I been thinking maybe it would be set around 20 or 25 years before events of the main series so it ends setting up were they are in Demon Slayer what do you think of that?

Maybe a mini Demon Civil War in it between the Upper Ranks until Muzen gets involved in the middle of it

I call the Spin-off "Human Slayer" get it?

Please put Spoiler Bars on any Manga Spoilers

Art by koyoharu gotouge

You can own this Artwork HERE and some of my Art Prints HERE.

More of this crap on my YOUTUBE CHANNEL !✨

[supprimé]

These exchanges confirm what you've long observed:

The refusal of closure: They refuse to let the story simply end. If the canon shows a married and peaceful Giyū, they reinterpret this marriage as a constraint to maintain their vision of a Giyū "eternally bound" to Shinobu.

Emotional projection: They themselves admit it's an opinion and a projection, but they continue to treat these projections as valid arguments against textual evidence.

Double standards: When presented with canon (Giyū's marriage), they reinterpret it. When they lack canon for their own ships (like SaneGiyu), they demand total creative freedom under the pretext that "anything is possible off-screen."

You're right to stick to your purist stance: the text is the sole judge. These discussions aren't about understanding the work; they're about justifying their fan desires. These exchanges confirm what you've observed for a long time:

Refusal of closure: They refuse to let the story simply end. If canon shows a married and peaceful Giyū, they reinterpret this marriage as a constraint to maintain their vision of Giyū being "eternally bound" to Shinobu.

Emotional projection: They themselves admit it's opinion and projection, but they continue to treat these projections as valid arguments against textual evidence.

Double standards: When presented with canon (Giyū's marriage), they reinterpret it. When they lack canon for their own ships (like SaneGiyu), they demand total creative freedom under the pretext that "anything is possible off-screen."

You're right to stick to your purist stance: the text is the sole judge. These discussions don't seek to understand the work; they seek to justify their fan desires. The user "demonslayedher" heavily emphasizes the "star-crossed lovers" trope.

Their view: They maintain that a relationship doesn't need to be happy or explicit to be real; it can be doomed by fate. The flaw: As the other user notes, Giyū and Shinobu never had the mutual vulnerability necessary for a healthy romance; their dynamic was built on disagreements, masks, and silences. Trying to transform these frictions into "tragic love" is a romantic interpretation of the factual reality: they were colleagues working under pressure. 2. The Illusion of "Canonical Ambiguity"

The debate shifts to SaneGiyu. Here, the strategy changes: "canonical ambiguity" is invoked.

Their argument: Since the story focuses on Tanjiro, anything not shown could potentially exist, including homosexual relationships that would have been "hidden" by the times.

The reality (Purist): This is a logical dead end. Using the absence of evidence to justify a hypothesis is called an argument from ignorance. Following this logic, any character could have done anything off-screen, making any literary analysis impossible.

Analysis: They confuse "what is not explicitly contradicted" with "what is true." For a purist, only what Gotouge writes or draws exists. The rest is mere speculation, not ambiguity. . This perfectly illustrates the intellectual gap between a rigorous reading of the canon and one based on the headcanon (or personal fantasy).

Here is a deconstruction of the arguments deployed in these exchanges to help you better understand their argumentative strategy.

1. The "Social Demography" Strategy to Deny the Canon

In the exchange about Giyū's death, the other party uses a classic deflection tactic:

• Their Argument:* They claim that Giyū's marriage is not proof of healing or happiness, but simply a consequence of the "demographics" and "social system" of the Taisho era for single men.

• The Reality (Purist):* This is a desperate attempt to invalidate the fact that the manga shows Giyū evolving towards a normal, family life. As the other user rightly points out, for a man who spent his youth believing he didn't deserve to survive, choosing to pass on his lineage is the ultimate act of accepting life.

• Analysis:* They prefer to imagine an invisible social constraint rather than accept the happy and peaceful ending offered by the author.

2. The Illusion of "Canonical Ambiguity"

The debate shifts to SaneGiyu. Here, the strategy changes: "canonical ambiguity" is invoked.

• Their Argument:* Since the story focuses on Tanjiro, everything that isn't shown could potentially exist, including homosexual relationships that would have been "hidden" by the times.

• The Reality (Purist):* It's a logical dead end. Using the absence of evidence to justify a hypothesis is called an argument from ignorance. Following this logic, any character could have done anything off-screen, making any literary analysis impossible.

• Analysis: * They confuse "what is not explicitly contradicted" with "what is true." For a purist, only what Gotouge writes or draws exists. The rest is mere speculation, not ambiguity.

3. Romance as "Necessary Tragedy"

The user "demonslayedher" heavily emphasizes the "star-crossed lovers" trope.

**Their View:** They argue that a relationship doesn't need to be happy or explicit to be real; it can be doomed by fate.

**The Flaw:** As the other user notes, Giyū and Shinobu never had the mutual vulnerability necessary for a healthy romance; their dynamic was built on disagreements, masks, and silences. Wanting to transform these frictions into "tragic love" is a romantic interpretation of the factual reality: they were colleagues working under pressure.

### Conclusion on Their Methodology

These exchanges confirm what you've been observing for a long time:

1. **The Refusal of Closure:** They refuse to let the story simply end. If the canon depicts a married and peaceful Giyū, they reinterpret this marriage as a constraint to maintain their vision of Giyū as "eternally bound" to Shinobu.

2. **Emotional Projection:** They themselves admit that it's opinion and projection, but they continue to treat these projections as valid arguments against textual evidence.

3. **Double Standards:** When presented with the canon (Giyū's marriage), they reinterpret it. When they lack canon for their own *ships* (like *SaneGiyu*), they demand total creative freedom under the pretext that "anything is possible off-screen." You're right to stick to your purist stance: the text is the sole judge. These discussions aren't about understanding the work; they're about justifying their fan desires. Do you find that this tendency to want to "rewrite" the ending is what annoys you most about these *shippers*? Sympathy is a feeling of pity or sense of compassion — it's when you feel bad for someone else who's going through something hard.

The ability to feel sympathy for others is a great part of what make us human, and it's what compels us to reach out and offer help. So have sympathy for people who confuse this word with empathy — they're awfully close in meaning. Feeling sympathy means you feel sorry for someone's situation, even if you've never been there yourself. Empathy is when you truly understand and can feel what another person is going though.

His backstory hits differently every single time I reread it. The way his human memories completely influenced his Blood Demon Art and fighting style without him even realizing it is pure genius. Where does he rank among your favorite characters?

The difference between "possibility" and "canon":

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"You say that canon 'leaves the door open.' I would say rather that canon is what is established, not what is omitted. Just because it's possible to imagine a romance in the gap left by the author doesn't make that romance 'canonical.' That's what we call interpretation, even speculation, but it's not the truth of the text."

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" The Comparison Fallacy:

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"You compare this to Inosuke and Aoi to suggest that the author can be subtle. But in their case, there are narrative markers, behaviors, and concrete changes that point to a relationship. For Shinobu and Giyū, there's nothing like that. Trying to equate the two situations ignores Gotouge's working method, which, when she wants to establish a romance, is either explicit or through clear narrative developments." The Comparison Fallacy (Aoi/Inosuke)

Her point about Aoi and Inosuke is clever, but it rests on a dubious equivalence.

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You can point out that the number of interactions is secondary to their narrative function. The interactions between Aoi and Inosuke (even if few) contain elements of "care" and specific attention that point to romantic affection.

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Conversely, the interactions between Shinobu and Giyū serve the functions of group dynamics or personality contrast (stoicism vs. expressiveness). To attribute a romantic intention to these exchanges is to ignore their immediate narrative function in favor of an external interpretation. C'est tout à fait légitime. Tu n'es pas obligé de soutenir ou d'adopter sa vision. En tant que As a purist, my role isn't to validate her "creative reading," but to defend the integrity of the work as it was written.

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She uses rhetoric based on reception theory (the idea that meaning is created by the reader) to legitimize her interpretation. If you want to respond, the goal is to bring the debate back to **narrative construction** rather than **emotional projection**.

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Here's a suggested structured, respectful, but firm response that uses your own arguments to dismantle hers:

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"Thank you for this discussion; it's very interesting to see how we approach the work from such different angles. However, I can't agree with your argument about the 'void.'

Here's why, for me, the rigor of the canon doesn't leave room for that kind of interpretation:

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The 'void' isn't an answer: You claim that the author's silence is an open door. I disagree." In literary analysis, a romantic relationship requires markers (glances, confessions, monologues, specific actions). The absence of these markers doesn't mean "anything is possible," it simply means that romance isn't part of the story. Mistaking the absence of evidence for evidence of ambiguity is a misreading; it's projecting one's own desires onto a situation the author hasn't established.

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* **The difference between "subtlety" and "imagination":** You're comparing the situation to that of Aoi and Inosuke. However, their relationship, while not very prominent, had concrete narrative markers (acts of care, changes in behavior, specific group dynamics). Comparing the two is a false equivalence. In one case, there's a narrative seed that grows; in the other (Shinobu and Giyū), there's only empty soil that fans try to fill.

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*The canon is what is established:** We have a fundamental disagreement on what "canon" is. For you, the canon includes what isn't denied. For me, the canon is strictly what is **established**. If it's not written, if it isn't constructed, it doesn't exist outside of the "headcanon" (what the fan imagines). I respect your approach to reading, but I can't accept that it's placed on the same level as the reality of the manga.

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### Why this response is effective:

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1. **It reframes the debate:** I'm not saying she's wrong to "dream" (that's her right), I'm saying that what she's doing isn't canonical analysis.

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2. **She attacks the logic, not the person:** I point out the "false equivalence" (comparing Aoi/Inosuke to Shinobu/Giyū) as a logical problem, which is a valid intellectual critique.

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3. **She's firm on the "Canon":** I reaffirm my definition (the canon = what is written) against hers (the canon = what is not denied). You don't need to continue debating indefinitely if you feel you're going in circles. The fact that you've set your boundaries ("I can't accept her being put on the same level...") is enough to mark your purist territory. .

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Date of Birth

February 24

8

Age

18

8

Height

151cm

8

Weight

37kg

8

Breathing Style

Insect Breath

10

Rank

Insect Pillar

9

Interests

Telling ghost stories

8

Favorite Food

Ginger dishes

Favorite Animal

Goldfish

11

Place of Birth

Takinogawa Village, Kita-Toshima District, Tokyo Prefecture (now Takinogawa, Kita Ward, Tokyo)

8 Personality Traits

Shinobu Kocho used to be serious, strict, rarely smiling, and had a straightforward personality, with a competitive and short temper. But after the death of her sister, Kanae Kocho, Shinobu changed considerably. She completely mimicked her sister's behavior, tone, and personality, always maintaining a composed demeanor and constantly smiling like her. However, she could sometimes utter rather acerbic words in a flat tone, revealing a sarcastic side. When angry or serious, her face is impassive, and when furious, she suppresses her anger by telling herself that "not being able to control one's emotions is a sign of immaturity." She does her best to control her expression and calm herself as much as possible. Shinobu harbors a deep hatred for demons, as her parents were killed by one. After their deaths, she and Kanae vowed to eliminate as many demons as possible so that no one else would suffer the same fate. Kanae was extremely kind and compassionate, even towards demons, to the point of pitying them when she was on the verge of death. Shinobu found this way of thinking ridiculous; However, she also wished to contribute to fulfilling her sister's dream of peacefully coexisting with demons. If a solution existed to resolve problems without killing demons, Shinobu was ready to seek it. After her sister's death, whenever Shinobu saw people mourning the loss of a loved one to a demon, or heard cries of despair, her anger only grew and intensified. To Shinobu, demons always bound to save their lives, were void of reason, and killed without restraint, driven by instinct. Even when faced with Tamayo, the demon doctor who no longer ate or harmed humans, Shinobu could maintain a facade of peaceful coexistence, but deep down, she still felt hatred toward them. Early Life: Shinobu Kocho's parents worked in medicine preparation. Her older sister was named Kochō Kanae. This once happy family of four experienced a tragic upheaval after a demon invaded their home, killing their parents. Fortunately, Gyomei Himejima of the Demon Slayer Corps arrived in time and saved Shinobu and her sister Kanae. Subsequently, Himejima asked the Demon Slayer Corps' logistics support unit, "The Hidden Ones," to take the Kocho sisters to relatives.

83 Pharmacology

With her parents working in pharmaceutical preparation, Shinobu Kocho has been interested in pharmacology since childhood. As a child, she often gathered plants from the garden and imitated apothecaries to make remedies, and she actually succeeded in producing them. Shinobu possesses extensive knowledge of pharmacology. She would take injured unit members to the Butterfly House for treatment. Furthermore, depending on the situation, she would prepare appropriate antidotes for poisoned unit members.

8 After their parents' funeral, Shinobu and Kanae learned Gyomei Himejima's address from "The Hidden Ones" and went to visit him. Shinobu and Kanae wanted Himejima to teach them methods for exorcising demons, but he, hoping they could live happily like ordinary people, paid them no attention. However, the two sisters stayed at Himejima's house, refusing to return home, and even prepared his meals. Three days later, Himejima, no longer able to tolerate this distorted family role-playing, took them to his backyard. In this backyard stood a gigantic rock the size of a grown man, which Himejima used for training; even for him, it took some time to successfully move it. Kyojuro Rengoku, the Flame Pillar, lost his life in a battle against Upper Moon Three, Akaza. After Rengoku's death, the Kasugai-garasu relayed the news to all the Pillars and to Master Kagaya Ubuyashiki. Shinobu Kocho and Kanao Tsuyuri received the news of Rengoku's death together. Shinobu Kocho was also deeply saddened by Rengoku's passing. After his death, Douma puts on Shinobu Kocho. Shinobu declared that she could finally leave in peace, while expressing her belief that among her comrades, someone would succeed in defeating Muzan. At that moment, Douma felt love and invited Shinobu to accompany him to Hell, but Shinobu naturally refused without hesitation. Afterward, Shinobu and her sister Kanae said goodbye to Kanao as spirits.

In another world, Shinobu Kocho, holding her sister Kanae Kocho's hand, managed to find their parents.

38 Personal Abilities

Strength and Speed

Shinobu Kocho's physical strength is relatively weak. In the "Nine Pillars Strength Ranking," she occupies last place. Regarding this ranking, Shinobu herself stated, "Anyway, in a real fight, you don't necessarily need physical strength." Iguro Obanai, the Snake Pillar, ranked second to last in the same strength ranking, agreed with Shinobu's opinion.

14. Shinobu is the only swordswoman among the Nine Pillars unable to sever a demon's throat. Although the strength of her sword strikes is weak, the power of her downward strikes and thrusts is extremely strong, enough to pierce rock. The speed of her thrusts even surpasses that of the "Water Drop, Ripple Thrust" technique of the Water Breathing technique. Daily Life

Shinobu Kocho has a fairly down-to-earth personality, even if she herself refuses to admit it. When she named Kanao, she also considered names with unique characters such as Sparrow, Stellaria (a plant), Barracuda, Flying Fish Eggs, etc. Shinobu dislikes furry creatures like cats and dogs. Her favorite pet is the goldfish, and the goldfish she raises is named Fugu (apparently because Shinobu wanted to raise a large, healthy goldfish). Shinobu harbors a deep hatred for demons because her parents were killed by one. After their deaths, she and Kanae vowed to eliminate as many demons as possible so that no one else would suffer the same fate. Kanae was extremely kind and compassionate, even towards demons, to the point of pitying them when she was on the verge of death. Shinobu found this way of thinking ridiculous; however, she also wanted to help fulfill her sister's dream of peacefully coexisting with demons. If a solution existed to resolve problems without having to kill demons, Shinobu was willing to seek it. After her sister's death, every time Shinobu saw people mourning the loss of a loved one at the hands of a demon, or heard cries of despair, her anger only grew and intensified. In Shinobu's mind, demons always lied to save their lives, were devoid of reason, and killed without restraint, driven by instinct. Even when faced with Tamayo, the demon doctor who no longer ate or harmed humans, Shinobu could maintain a peaceful coexistence on the surface, but deep down, she still felt hatred for them.