r/FazbearFightClub

Previous Post: Why Fazbear Frights is necessary for scaling

Ngl I feel kind of silly just writing this, because it’s an inherently silly concept, but I also can’t get it out of my head. Let’s get down to the brass tacks of the argument.

Core Argument: The story Under Construction introduces the idea that idea that existence, including time, matter, and reality are all subjective experiences which exists only insofar as the observer perceives them. He goes on to say that, because the mind is fundamentally extant and cannot experience non-existence, Quantum Immortality occurs and the observer will only ever experience universes/timelines where they stay alive. This is confirmed to not just be unreliable nonsense by the ending, where Maya experiences an event which is physically impossible to survive, namely being crushed under thousands of tons of jelly people, but from her perspective remains alive in eternal torment.

What this shows is that normal reality in FNAF is definitively subject to perception, not just on a basic level of everyday stuff, but in a level where both the current timeline and the multiverse are both illusory and subject to manipulation by perception: this, in my view, leaves us with two potential interpretations, 5-D or Outer.

This is a Death Battle subreddit, so first I’ll interpret this under Death Battle’s own logic. Here there’s a pretty clear reality-fiction distinction, which Death Battle and related blogs have used to argue Outer tiering/potential like with Kyle vs Simon. It’s a pretty clear boundary in that case - however, I would argue that under stricter interpretations of Outer, FNAF would still qualify, as the distinction of the mind’s being the true source of reality seems qualitative, rather than quantitative. What I mean by this is that, rather than existing on a hierarchy where higher and lower level dimensions are each more real than the last, time, the multiverse, space, and even fictional/digital spaces are equally real to the mind based on perception, being affected by the power of memory and emotion through Remnant. I’ll go more into this later on, but for now, I’ll just say that there’s a precedent for this, and if you believe that say, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, or Pokemon have Outer arguments despite not having infinite dimensional layers to transcend, then this applies under similar logic.

Counterargument 1: Under Construction largely takes place in a simulation - couldn’t it just be that Fazbear’s simulations/digital spaces can’t kill you or effect reality?

Verdict: No. Other stories make a point of showing that if you say, drown in one world, you experience the drowning for real, and causes harm to your physical body as well. Similarly, other stories show that the digital world actually has a large amount of influence in the real world.

Counterargument 2: Other stories, which show us the perspective of key characters, have been known to show that characters can experience “non-existence” when they die. Doesn’t this disprove quantum immortality?

Verdict: This to me is the strongest argument against this, but I don’t think it’s a smoking gun - to begin with, it’s arguable that that’s just been retconned as of the later books, since the argument mostly comes from one or two throwaway lines at the end of stories like “To Be Beautiful” which are older than Under Construction. It’s also worth noting that, like many horror stories, Fazbear Frights books keep their endings ambiguous and don’t tell the whole story up front, leaving some deaths and events uncertain: it is entirely arguable that, for example, Sarah does persist as a spirit like many others who die in the books, and we just don’t see it. At best though, it only proves that Quantum Immortality doesn’t always kick in: we know it definitely DOES exist in some capacity because we see it kick in in a way that defies physics and can’t be explained by coincidence

Supporting Evidence: The Digital World

In Security Breach: Ruin, a core mechanic is that Cassie is given the Vanni Mask, which connects her to the AR network. However, it’s relevant here because, crucially, Cassie interacts with this world as if it was replacing reality. When Cassie perceives the world in digital terms, she is able to pass through objects and obstacles that are demonstrably real and impassable under normal circumstances, avoid enemies in one world by swapping between them, and even take “portals” from one area to another. The unreal, ostensibly fictional AR world becomes real to her, and through it is able to perform actions that are physically real. Which is to say: a core mechanic of Ruin is that reality is subjective to your perceptions and only strides you insofar as you perceive it does. This is strong evidence that, not only do AR perceptions have a tangible effect on you and your reality even if you, for example, take them off later, but that both higher and lower levels of “reality” are subject to that effect… not that FNAF is High Outer or anything, but it does rule out the 5-D interpretations because we see that both 2-D digital reality and 3-D normal reality are equally illusory and dependent on the mind, which is markedly different than if spatial dimensions are being treated as as more or less real than each other.

Supporting Evidence: Remnant

Remnant is very much rooted in the same principles, affecting reality based on your own memories/perception of reality, with even basic Remnant changing the present to make your memories of real events almost real again. In fact, strong enough emotions are shown to change things in a definitively, permanently real way: we see the past has been affected in Into the Pit, both with the games changing the Missing Children’s incident and people from the past recognizing Oswald in the future. Remnant/Agony also operates through the Zero Point Field, which is the deepest level of reality present independent of everything else like matter and energy, and whose field is also subject to perception. It is stated there is no such thing real odds/random chance because possibilities are subject to thoughts and events, with massive events in history also being tied to the thoughts and perception of the people. So, it is both consistent and integral to FNAF lore that reality as it is perceived is not locally real, but rather subject to influence by collective perception.

Implications:

If you accept this, it means the mind structure of FNAF characters operates on a Outerversal level, with Hax that affects the mind and its perception operating on that level. Similarly, the reality warping effects of Remnant operate on a similar level, being the emotions and subjective memories of a 1-A mind influencing reality and warping causality, probability, time, etc.

However: Springtrap still loses to Goku. This really only applies to the mind, and it’s not like any FNAF character has thrown off the cosmic illusion to realize that their perceived reality doesn’t exist is malleable. They’re still bound to physical bodies, just with remnant attaching their soul to artificial bodies. Even then, Remant itself is still at minimum weakened by fire and similar effects. If Afton dies in that reality, even if he’s alive somewhere else in the multiverse that’s basically getting reality banned the way Bruce did to Ultima on Hulkzilla. Granted, I do think people underestimate the healing powers of remnant, since having it lets you get up from having your organs scooped out and let Baby put herself back together from having been spit out of a pile of robo spaghetti, but that’s neither here nor there.

FNAF World

This isn’t actually relevant to the above argument, but it IS influenced by it, so I thought I’d mention it here.

After a lot of thinking: there is no real evidence to discount FNAF World from scaling canon, in part or in whole.

The statement that Scott isn’t canon is specifically in regards to being the rogue indie developer mentioned in Help Wanted, which Scott represented with a picture of himself and who made the in-universe versions of FNAF. The statement that Scott “regrets” FNAF world is specifically about him regretting putting troll games like Foxy Fighters in a canon game… Foxy Fighters is a mini-game in FNAF world guys, the canon game it’s in IS FNAF World.

The main objection is that certain parts of it should be considered non-canon because it’s too meta - however, not only is that not a real counter argument, but FNAF has been very largely defined by meta throughout its history, between the “games within games within games” plot points, and interactive books where you can get “game crashes” and can only get the true ending by save scumming.

Conversely, the argument FOR a fully canon FNAF world is much stronger: canon characters appear, set up canon events like Happiest Day, introduces canon concepts like Old Man Consequences, and is referenced in canon games like UCN. The allegedly non-canon character of note, Animdude, is referenced in routes which even counter arguments concede are canon, and is set up as the driving force behind the game’s conflict.

Mind you, I don’t believe we get a clear answer to who or what Animdude represents, but we also don’t need one. He could be Henry, he could be the in-universe indie developer, or maybe meta structures do exist in FNAF and he respects the narrative as a whole. It doesn’t really matter: the FNAF World cast fights a guy who sees existence as fictional and manipulates reality and the fourth wall as such, which coincides well with the idea of reality being an illusion in the first place, and does make sense as the characters, in a purely spiritual world, having a degree of influence on that level of reality, so it works as good supporting evidence.

r/FazbearFightClub

Accepting my Death and scaling FNAF Cosmology

Pretty much how most of aftons matchups would go

Ruminations on Outer FNAF Cosmology

give me low quality memes

Fruadtrap

Junko vs the Joker, but something is off.

Can you kill Freddy Fazbear?

Remember this well, the Silvr eyes Spriongtrap is the weakest one out of all of them,