r/ForeignersinUAarmy

Who is entitled to UBD status?

I am asking because I am speaking with some recruiters and will either go into drones with SBS or a rear position as a mechanic. I still haven't decided. SBS work will be closer to the zeroline so I am sure to receive it but with mechanic work, maybe not? Does it even matter? Will everything be recorded in my green book when I join?

Bonus question: apart from green book being AFU and red book NGU, what is the difference?

Thanks!

So will you be discriminated against? You will face all the prejudices based on whatever personal attributes you have and the history of unit's interaction with said groups. Plus - benefit of the doubt and opportunity to show you can be an asset. Like we had so far 2 recruits from country X, one of them was fine and one not so much. Here comes #3. Hopefully he will make it. That's just how human psychology works irl. So it's ultimately up to you.

It is important not to adopt a sieged fortress mentality. Like it's us foreigners and them ukies. The ukies have also countless petty feuds and prejudices based on region, social class, education, age, rank and so on which may well overshadow you being a foreigner. One good example is that a working class Ukrainian soldier is more likely to bond with a foreign volunteer of a similar background than with a "snobby capital city guy who has never held anything heavier than a dick in his hands" from his own country, even if they could barely understand basic English.

So. You will face prejudices - both positive and negative. Your experience with the unit will depend of how much of an asset you are able and willing to become.

1. Not fastening your seatbelt. Crazy thing to do, especially if you think how many knuckleheads race around, who bought their driving license in Kramatorsk after only riding scooter in their home village. Or maybe they don't have it at all. So they are legally (!) authorized to drive a tank, but not a car. Anyway, they flash by. Traffic lights are off. Collapsed anti drone nets here and there which you have to maneuver around in last second. Burned cars. And still you are somehow supposed to NOT fasten. You come to peace with the idea after you stop caring whether you live or die (it takes a couple of years on average).

2. Not caring about environment. Like you'd normally not throw litter in the streets or highways in your civilian life. Never. And suddenly you are supposed to casually throw an empty bottle out of car window. Well the trash is not taken out anyway. Probably someone's coming after the war to clean the whole place. We take care of the most important stuff - cleaning it of orcs, why can't someone do the smaller thing? That thought makes you feel better.

3. Many people wearing the plate carrier but not the helmet. Pure retardation if you ask me. Why the hell wouldn't one want to protect their head if it is dangerous and they put the plate carrier on? Nothing valuable inside their scull? Or it doesn't look cool? Yes, our generals and politicians have a hand in it. Whatever photo you see, they never wear helmet. And of course Hollywood. The actors' heads are almost never covered. It's all their fault.

Could you guys who served/are serving in Ukraine think of anything else?

Our rank system has been mostly standardized to that most of NATO countries. A couple of things that are different, which I will lay out in detail, as well as the accompanying prejudices and jokes. Spoiler - its a mix of Soviet, NATO and medieval Cossack stuff.

Enlisted rank.

1. Солдат/Soldat/E1. Nuff said. Clear shoulderboard, clear conscience as the saying has it.
2. Старший солдат/Starshiy soldat/E2. Was renamed from Soviet rank єфрейтор (jefrejtor). Which originates from German "gerfreiter", roughly meaning " the freed (surf)". Basically does not authorize you to command people, except in group settings where you are the only starschiy soldat and all others are just soldat. The Soviet time joke has it that it is better to have a prostitute daughter than a jefrejtor son. It is due to the fact that this rank can pretty easily be assigned as "encouragement" without appointing to higher postion. Needless to say, the fellow soldat would make fun of jefrejtor for being a brown nose. The officers quickly picked up on this and it turned into punishment-encouragement with soldiers really ready to go long way not to get it. Something like being officially declared snitch. The whole thing is dying out, but the joke is still there.
3. Corporal. Recently introduced, probably some version of Starshiy soldat

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Ukraine does not have PFC, the next rank is:

3. Junior sergeant/sergeant/senior sergeant. Most UA sergeants have easy-going approach. Yet make no mistake - they are the once who have a big say if you made it or not. If your sarg is satisfied with you, cool. If not, you have a problem.

4. All the sergeant ranks above senior sergeant have been newly introduced and few people actually know them, beside those who hold them. In Soviet times it was just praporshik and we liked it that way.

Officer ranks

1. Ukraine has not 2 but 3 lieutenant ranks: junior lieutenant, lieutenant and senior lieutenant. The rank of junior lieutenant was recently changed to хорунжий (khorunzhiy) - stuff from medieval Cossack times. Probably because people hate being called junior and sick of hearing the Soviet song "junior lieutenant, young boy" mumbled behind their backs. There are two ways to become junior lieutenant - civilians with officer training course or prior enlisted. You can usually tell which case you have straight away. The good rule is even if what they say is ridiculous, don't tell it to their face, it's bad manners and will catch you, even if not immediately.

Lieutenant - promoted from jr. Lt or a recent graduate of military academy.

senior lieutenant - promoted from lt.

2. Captain - the one having final say about what will happen to you.

All the rankss above captain are pretty standard and unlikely to interact with you in any way.

The cougars at 26 brigade HQ crave young fresh meat. And they are getting it. They don't know what consent is and care little to learn.

If they want you, you're their prey. They will feast on you till you pass out from exhaustion.

After they're done with you, you're shoved off to the front.

Now you know.

Join at your own risk.

I'm a foreigner, looking to join the UAF, but I'm not exactly sold on any of the units and was wondering if any recruiters, active duty UAF, or otherwise could give me any pointers.

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I'm in relatively good shape, I don't drink, and I don't smoke. I'm certified in Emergency Life Saving in the US and Canada, as well as a licensed heavy equipment operator in both countries. I'm looking for a unit with a strong sense of preservation for the life of their troops while also trying to avoid getting involved in any politics, whether they be far-right or far-left.

It will not relieve the pain of those who lost their loved ones.

Nevertheless, I would like to shed light on the process of having person recognized as KIA and subsequenty claiming benefits.

The process is sometimes, as many unfortunately experienced, slow and bureaucracized.

The reason is that it is not always realistic to recover the body.

In absence thereof, a complicated procedure follows. It is in place to prevent fraud and embezzlement. 15 000 000 UAH is about 35 000 USD at current rate - huge money in most parts of the world. Absolute majority of AFU servicemembers - both Ukrainian and international - are honest people. Yet the compensation amount does not allow to simply take other people's words for sufficient proof without further procedure.

AFU made arrangements to facilitate recognition on DNA basis, even if the whole body could not be recovered. Should the funds be paid out erroneously, and it is later established that the person was not KIA, the whole amount paid is to be recovered from the officer who approved the payment, having no proof in hand. One mistake can cost them their home.

So there is no malicious intent in withholding payments. Ukraine has taken effort to make the process less burdensome for the families and continues to do so.

Things to think of when packing. Your passport - must be at least 6 months till expiry. Check if you need a visa to get to EU and Ukraine and have one in advance. Don't rely on invitation letters, it's a lottery.

There are all sorts of people in foreign recruitment centers where you will live while undergoing background checks and having your dossier prepared. Same as in Training centers. So think well if you really want to take those fancy night vision red dot with you. Be sure to have your cash separated and well hidden. You should have at least half or more of your total funds in cash to avoid "oh the ATM swallowed my card" "oh my card has been blocked" cases. Don't lend anyone money unless you are fine with the idea of never getting it back.

If you are a weed addict, think well before lying about it and going. Trying to buy it may very well get you in trouble. The "I`m American citizen" thing might work late, if ever. With dozens of people KIA or missing you will be low on the list. And unless you are one of a kind military genius, you unit will drop you, and rightfully so. You also definitely shouldn't be acting mafia boss and pushing greenbacks to police should you get detained for any reason. There is very little chance they will accept it and very good chance they have a body camera. So stay in your lane, be vigilant and don't look for trouble - and you won't find any.

And for the sake of God - don't squander your time, try to pick some bit Ukrainian. At least being able to guess context of what's going on around you will benefit you a lot.

After you singed your contract you head to basic training aka BZVP. Bring lube with you. Literally, for gun cleaning.

It will probably suck in BZVP but you just need to make it to the end without issues. You will not get kicked out if you stay in your lane and make some basic effort. Check that you got a stamp in your green book and a certificate after you finished the BZVP. Should you wish to join another unit in some time in the future and not have those you might have to go through it again.

So this is more of a general knowledge post with little practical value. It will give you an understanding though, probably you have some similar elements in your home country.

An umbrella term of Ukrainian Defence Forces encompasses not only the Armed Forces of Ukraine (which also has a shitload of different command structures in it like Airborne, Assault troops, Marines, Rangers(!), and whatnot), but also National Guard, Border Guard, SBU, GUR, and even police units. Most basically doing same job.

So why it's not just good old Army, Air and Navy? In papers you will find very smartass strategical and tactical considerations why we need a shitload of structures.

The real reasons can be grouped as follows:

1. Civilian control and separation of powers. In most countries ground forces constitute absolute majority of troops. In peacetime it doesn't really matter, yet in wartime it can cause friction between General Staff of AF and Staff of Ground Forces. Most prominent and well documented (Germans be Germans) example being frictions between OKH and OKW. This dynamics is present wherever you go in the world. Even take any commercial company - the subdivision tend to be of roughly same or comparable size. So in most militaries larger structures are chunked out under any pretext.
2. Elite units inflation.
3. Legal limitations on application of armed violence.
4. Scaling of successful units and promotion of their commanders.
5. Political benefit of creating new structures which are sold to the public as growth in capabilities.

Now let's see how these reasons created the buoyant jungle we have now.

We'll start at year 2013 when Ukraine had roughly standard security layout for a mid-sized Eastern European country.

Only fancy stuff being marines and airborne.

As for marines - everybody pretty much knew we are not going to make a D-Day in Krasnodar, yet quite a few people loved that nice beret and could be held to some standard not to lose it, so why rob them of this pleasure. Besides, marines are formally part of the Navy, so it slightly evened the distribution of personnel between Ground Forces and Navy. As classic said, the United States doesn't need a Marine Corps, but the American people want one. So in Ukraine we have a local variation thereof.

Airborne. It was a huge cult in Soviet era, which Ukraine took advantage of for quite a while. Similarly to marines, people with a bit of common sense knew there is absolutely no realistic scenario when airborne units will actually be doing air assault. But yet again people wanted that beret badly, soldiers could be held busy around their parachutes so it sticked around.

In 2014 the General Staff saw an opportunity to chunk off a part Ground Forces and created separate Airborne command. Since the it grew massively, now encompassing like a dozen brigades (!).

The same year 2014 the shit went down. The local police took little action to combat hybrid unrest in Eastern Ukraine and Crime. There were major political and legal obstacles to deploy regular Army there. So the government came up with National Guard (yes they really like to make local knock-offs of whatever they have seen in Hollywood films). Basically heavily armed centrally commanded police. The initial composition of National Guard was a wild mix of riot police deployed in Maidan and protestors who they were beating to death. Protestors, obviously hated Russia and were eager to strangle whatever its shenanigans. But they lacked organization and experience. Riot police didn't like Maidan, yet many didn't like Russian interference either. So here they were hating each other on a common mission. They soon made up while fighting common enemy.

National Guard quickly became govenment's favourite. People don't like police, so there was no chance of any political ambitions of NG commanders stemming from battlefield success. Moreover it is a separate structure under Ministry of interior (not MOD). Which government wouldn't want a second army which they can apply without parliament approval whatsoever? Initially NG was deployed in rear echelon leaving heavy fighting to the Armed Forces. Fast forward to now they have everything the regular army has and are now deployed as a separate Army Corps (they still report to Ministry of Interior though).

The arrival of drone era caused further growth. The results were needed yesterday, so whoever could deliver was given green light. As you can see from footages, SBU is flying strike drones to Russia (although SBU is a counterintel body), GUR - same (although they are intel). There is a separate SBS command (conveniently chunked off from Ground Forces). Even Border Guard does. They were by the way the first ones to fly it to Kremlin.

Speaking of Border Guard there was quite back and forth with it. Ukraine inherited the structure from Soviet Union in militarized form. During peace time it was demilitarized. Like why would you need heavy weapons to check for counterfite cigs in a van? As 2014 arrived it was remilitarized again, as it is a good idea to have someone fire some shots at Russian tanks surprise attack before Army arrives and not just say "you are detained". And yet again Border Guards are under Ministry of Interior.

The latest addition to this plenty was creation of a separate Assault troops Command. Like there was this unit commander who succeeded to have people go on, let's put it - bold - assaults. The government liked it. Like: we want more of it. You wanna be general and have separate command? Nuff said. Here you go. Whatever it takes to push russkis back.

Finally a couple more words about GUR. It is primarily intel and sabotage structure, not intended for frontline fighting. Needless to say they were thrown there anyway. They obviously have military expertise, so they were scaled as any successful structure nowadays. They run several units now ranging from quite ordinary to reasonably elite. Same as any spec ops, quite a few people would like to get in to have stories to tell in a bar later. GUR reports to MOD, but is not part of Armed Forces. So transferring from there will need a Minister signature.

If you read the whole exciting story till here you deserve a practical tip.

Transfering between units gets more difficult, the higher their common command is. For example, your transfer needs to be approved by Corps commander if you transfer within Corps. If you want to transfer from say National Guard to Armed Forces, it must be approve by Prime Minister. So think well before you opt for niche structures.

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