r/GermanCitizenship

Hello! I’ve posted a couple times previously regarding my mother and her passport. I am looking to both renew her passport for her and obtain citizenship for myself. She’d previously lost her passport which was a major issue, but she found it! Which was exciting. However, the consulate will not accept it as proof of my own citizenship as it’s dated the year after I was born. She does not have her older passports.

A summary of her history:
She was born out of wedlock to a German mother in 1959. Father is unknown.
She lived with her mother and grandmother until 1972, when they moved to the U.S. So far, her city of residence and birth cannot find an erweiterten Melderegisterauskunft for her, and told me she is not listed with her mother or grandmother.
She never naturalized.
I was born in wedlock to her and an American father in 1987.
She never renewed her German passport after 1993 and so that’s the last passport she has. She was issued it in 1988, a year after my birth.

I can prove my grandmother’s citizenship at the time of my mother’s birth and my mom’s birth certificate notes there is no father. I’ve asked the consulate if this is sufficient in place of the passport.

Assuming they say no, what are my next steps? Is it a case of Festellung or Stag 5? I want to get started right away in case it’s a hard no from them.

EDIT: I’m partially confused as previously I was told a current passport of hers would be the “best” proof, but how could that be true if the consulate specifically needs a passport from before my birth?

5 years ago tomorrow, the §5 StAG declaration period went into effect. 5 years from today, the declaration period will be closed. Be sure to get those declarations submitted. The official wait time for approval is 3 years due to the backlog, and it looks like it will become longer. I would also like to thank u/maryfamilyresearch and u/football_and_beer for their help in this subreddit.

I've been researching my family's German citizenship claim and I'm down to three legal questions I can't resolve from the practice literature. Hoping someone here has seen these come up before.

The timeline:

Date	Event
1884	My great-great-grandfather emigrates from Germany to the US as a minor
1891	My great-grandfather is born in West Virginia
1893	My great-great-grandmother dies in November, the kids get split up; my great-grandfather goes to live with a foster family
1895	My great-great-grandfather naturalizes in September. By this point my great-grandfather has been boarded out since around his mother's death

From this point forward, things are straightforward, there is an un-broken paternal line from there down to me, all births in wedlock, no later loss events.

Paper trail on all of this is solid (the naturalization record recites "a native of Germany" renouncing allegiance to "the Emperor of Germany"). My great-grandfather was born before the naturalization, so he acquired German citizenship at birth - the question is whether/when he lost it afterward.

Question 1: which loss mechanism even applies to the father? Foreign naturalization wasn't itself a loss ground before 1913, so his loss ran through §21 either way: the plain ten-year absence clock (1884 + 10 = 1894, before he even naturalized), or the Bancroft treaty version that shortened it. Grill (1893) treats the Bancroft loss as operating inside §21, which is what makes the qualifier in my next question available at all, but I've seen that Seydel, Laband and Meyer disputed this. Does anyone know which way practice goes? Treaty loss inside §21, or a freestanding loss ground where §21(2) never comes into play?

Question 2: §21(2) of the 1870 law says the father's loss extends to minor children "soweit sie sich bei dem Vater befinden." Does the BVA actually apply that qualifier? Meaning, would a child who was boarded out with another family at the time escape the derivative loss? Or does practice just treat every minor as losing citizenship along with the father, full stop? One wrinkle on evidence: custody was never formally transferred (I checked, there is no guardianship or court proceeding of any kind), so this would rest on the factual record - the father was a lodger with no household of his own, and census and church records (baptism) put the boy with the foster family. Would that kind of showing be enough, or does the BVA want a formal instrument?

Question 3: Even if my great-grandfather escaped derivative loss, I've read that practice ran a foreign-born German's own ten-year absence clock from birth, which would mean loss around 1901. But the statute applies to Germans "welche das Bundesgebiet verlassen," and he was born in the US. He never left Germany because he was never in it. Anyone know of a BVA or court position on foreign-born kids and the pre-1913 ten-year rule?

Has anyone actually seen a Feststellung decided on any of these points, in either direction? Trying to figure out if I have any shot here, or if this claim isn't feasible (for these reasons, or something else that I am overlooking).

Thanks in advance!

I am at the beginning of the process. As a first step, I took copies of all required documents to my local honorary consul yesterday and got them certified as true copies. However, the consul stapled all of the documents together and stamped and signed the packet on the back, and I need to send two of those documents to the State Dept for an apostille. (He put the stamp over the staple, so I don't want to undo the packet.) When I explained this to the consul, he was unhelpful and maintained that certifying the true copies as a package was "how it was always done.". He also said he couldn't answer any questions, that I would need to ask at a Consulate.

• Should I obtain the necessary apostilles first, then go back and get the copies certified?
• Can a copy with an apostille attached be certified as a true copy?
• Also, does the FBI background check need an apostille?
• Thanks for any/all advice!

My girlfriend is stuck in meetings all day and I don't really feel like talking about this with my friends or colleagues right now, so I guess Reddit gets to hear my rant. Maybe some of you have experience with this or can share your thoughts.

I moved to Germany in 2013 to study. At some point I decided to stay permanently, and in October 2024 I submitted my application for German citizenship.

Shortly after, I received a confirmation that my application had been received, along with the information that processing could take up to 20 months. Twenty. Months. Not much you can do about that, so I waited.

Earlier this year, I received a letter asking me to submit a whole bunch of additional documents. Apparently, it would have been too easy if the online application had asked for all of those from the beginning.

Then, at the beginning of July, I attended my appointment for the loyalty declaration and commitment to Germany's free democratic constitutional order.

Three weeks ago, I received a letter telling me to pay the citizenship fee and schedule an appointment to receive my naturalization certificate. Great news. I paid the fee, booked the appointment, and today was finally the big day.

However, my employment situation has changed since then.

At the end of July, I resigned from my job. Starting in December, I won't have a job anymore. My girlfriend and I have wanted to move in together for a long time, but it never really worked out. Eventually we both decided to quit our jobs and move. In the worst-case scenario, we have enough savings to support ourselves for several years.

At today's appointment, I was asked whether anything had changed regarding my employment situation. Of course, I answered honestly.

The caseworker left the room to discuss it with someone, came back a few minutes later, and told me that I would not be granted citizenship today after all.

He explained something about needing proof of financial security for the next six months (or something along those lines, unfortunately I don't remember the exact wording). Apparently, a notice confirming unemployment benefits would have been sufficient. But right now I'm only registered as a job seeker and don't yet have any official unemployment benefits decision.

So now I have to wait until:

1. I've completed my move, which means my case will be handled by a different authority.
2. I have official documentation showing that I'm receiving unemployment benefits.

And since there's likely to be a waiting period before I can receive unemployment benefits, I probably won't get that documentation until around three months after my employment officially ends.

So after nearly two years of waiting, paying the fee, and showing up to receive my citizenship certificate, I walked out empty-handed because I was honest about having resigned from my job.

That's my rant. Hopefully I didn't forget anything.

Disclaimer: I originally wrote this rant in German and used a generative AI tool to help structure and translate it into English.

Edit: After reading some of the comments and calming down a bit, I have to admit that my title was pretty clickbaity. In reality, it's probably more accurate to say that dishonesty would have been punished rather than honesty being punished.

A few additional details that I forgot to mention:

• I'm originally from another EU country neighboring Germany.
• The main reason I want German citizenship is so that I can vote and stop needing a registration certificate every time I have to prove where I live.
• I also partly blame my employer for this situation because I have a four-month notice period.

If my notice period had only been three months, I would have received my citizenship certificate today and simply handed in my resignation next week. Ironically, that same four-month notice period has already cost me a job opportunity in the past because the prospective employer wasn't willing to wait that long.

So apparently, my unusually long notice period managed to cause problems for me more than once. 😅

My mother will be the primary applicant under StAg five and apply for citizenship. As their child, I would also like to apply for citizenship. Do I need to fill out a separate EER application or just fill out the AV appendix on her application? We would submit paperwork at the same time.

Hi everyone, I received the appointment to submit originals and missing documents in October. can someone tell me if they will ask any questions/interview?? Also, what is the overall timeline and process once I submit these documents?
I am a non EU citizen.

Thank you in advance

Hello all,

I recently sent the documents for me and my family (14 total) to the BVA through the embassy in Lima. I got AZs for all applicants with the following code: 2026 0713 xxxx. Also important to note we are in the group TS II 10.

I sent an email correcting a typo seen in the original AZ email and also requesting expedited processing for my grandmother due to her age (97). I got an answer today saying advanced age is not a valid reason for expedited processing and furthermore, that since my grandmother was born before 1949 and married to a foreign national, she had lost her german citizenship and that the current law has no means by which she could reacquire it. Her children, including my mother, were all born after 1949. Does this mean the cases for all the rest of her descendents are rejected as well or not?

Any help is appreciated.

Hi everyone,

I’m currently employed since beginning of 2024 and have been offered an Aufhebungsvertrag due to operational reasons.
I have two options:
Option 1: Sign now → employment ends September → Transfergesellschaft starts October.
Option 2: Sign now → remain employed until December → Transfergesellschaft starts January.
I expect my Einbürgerung appointment within the next 1–2 months.

My questions:
Does signing the Aufhebungsvertrag now already create an issue for Einbürgerung, even if I remain employed and paid until December?
Would Option 2 be safer than Option 1 because I would still be employed at the time of the appointment?
Does being in a Transfergesellschaft affect the Einbürgerung process, assuming I’m not receiving Bürgergeld/SGB II?
Do I need to report the signed Aufhebungsvertrag to the Einbürgerungsbehörde?

Which option would you consider the safest for the Einbürgerung, and why?

Thanks!

I am a United States citizen, born and raised here, 39 years old. My grandmother is from Germany. She was born in 1936 and came here in the early 60s. She is a green card holder; she never became a US citizen.
Would I be eligible for German citizenship as well? My father (born in 1966) is her son, and he told me he looked into it, but he said he’s not eligible; this to me means that I am not.

Thank you for whatever information you may have.

Hi everyone! Does anyone know roughly which AZ months/years are currently being processed or receiving decisions for §5 StAG applications?

I’ve recently seen some reports of applications with AZ dates from early 2024 being decided, but I’m trying to get a better idea of the current timeline.

If you recently received a decision, could you please share your AZ month/year, country/region, and when the decision came through?
Thanks!

Hello!

I have a question about documentation for my Stag 5 declaration submission.

I am submitting the declaration via my Mother:

I was born in 1969, my mother was a German citizen on the day of my birth, my father was not a German citizen on the day of my birth. & my parents married before my birth.

My mother was born in Germany of German parents in 1930. My parents were married in 1959.

I had reviewed the checklist and provided a copy of my current US passport, my birth certificate, my marriage certificate, and my FBI background check.

For my Mother, I provided mother's Reisepass issued in 1984 (dated after my birth) & the marriage certificate of my parents from 1959 (dated before my birth).

When I visited my local German Consulate General they asked me to also obtain a copy of my Mother's birth certificate so I have requested this with her local registrar/certificate office in Germany and awaiting their reply. I was hoping her Reisepass would be sufficient but advised the actual birth certificate is still needed so I am working on that.

In the meantime, I got a follow up email from my local German Consulate General stating that even though German citizenship is not passed down through my father, the BVA requires documentation for all relatives involved and I should therefore obtain my father's birth certificate and passport.

This was unexpected based on the instructions in the Stag 5 Download Paket, but perhaps I didn't fully understand the EER document list.

I do have my Father's death certificate and original social security card, as well as his local state ID. I can work to obtain his birth certificate but a certified copy of his passport will be more difficult so hoping for an alternative option.

I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this request for documentation of the non-German parent and/or has any advice?

Thank you so very much for this group!

Hola a todos. Estoy tratando de determinar si podría ser elegible para obtener la ciudadanía alemana por descendencia a través de mi bisabuela y agradecería mucho cualquier orientación.
Mi historia familiar es la siguiente:
Mi bisabuela nació en Alemania en 1877.
Llegó a México en 1881 junto con sus padres, quienes eran alemanes.
Se casó en México en 1895. En su acta de matrimonio, su padre declaró que ella conservaría su nacionalidad alemana.
Mi abuelo nació en México en 1907.
Mi papá nació en México en 1944.
Yo nací en México en 1969.

¡Muchas gracias por cualquier orientación!

Building on my previous post: https://www.reddit.com/r/GermanCitizenship/comments/1vbfpjj/stag_5_paperwork_accumulation/

I now have my grandmother's birth certificate and passport. Do I really need my great grandfather's birth certificate as well? Can I apply with what I have and send it to the BVA later if they tell me I need it? From what I understand, I can start my wait by submitting now, and adding additional documents in the future won't lose my place in the queue.

I'm looking for input from people knowledgeable about historical German nationality law on a complicated citizenship-by-descent case.

My great-grandfather was Alfred Julius Seitz Sr., born in 1900 in Leipzig, Saxony. The family was from the Radebeul/Dresden area.

Here is the timeline:

- Alfred was born in Germany in 1900.
- His father, Karl Adolf Seitz, emigrated to the United States in 1903.
- Alfred's mother, Wilhelmina Lina Seitz (née Tautz), and the rest of the family did not arrive in the United States until August 1904.
- Alfred was approximately four years old when he immigrated.
- Karl Adolf was naturalized in the United States on October 29, 1913.
- Alfred was a minor at the time and did not independently naturalize. His U.S. citizenship was derivative from his father's naturalization and extended to him as a minor child.
- The 1913 German Reich and Nationality Act (RuStAG) entered into force on January 1, 1914, meaning the naturalization occurred only about two months before the new law took effect.
- Alfred's parents were married.
- The descent from Alfred to me is documented through the relevant birth and marriage records.

The main question is whether Alfred remained a German citizen after his father's U.S. naturalization, and whether German citizenship was therefore successfully transmitted down my family line.

I'm particularly interested in how German authorities would analyze:

1. The pre-1914 10-year expatriation rule and whether it affected Alfred or his family.
2. The fact that Alfred left Germany as a minor in 1904.
3. The fact that his father emigrated in 1903, while the mother and children followed in August 1904.
4. The legal effect of Karl Adolf's October 29, 1913 U.S. naturalization on Alfred, who acquired U.S. citizenship derivatively as a minor.
5. Whether the fact that the naturalization occurred before January 1, 1914, when the 1913 RuStAG entered into force, changes the analysis.

I have the naturalization record documenting the 1913 proceeding, along with German birth records, U.S. immigration records, census records, and draft records.

The reason I'm trying to get the historical-law analysis right is that later U.S. records contain different descriptions of Alfred's citizenship status. I'm therefore trying to determine his actual nationality under German law at each relevant point, rather than relying on how later U.S. records characterized him.

I'm also considering establishing residence in Saxony/Germany while pursuing the case and am interested in whether anyone has experience with a similar historical descent case being handled by a German local nationality authority rather than through the BVA.

Main question: How would German nationality law in effect in 1913 treat a German-born minor who emigrated to the United States as a child, whose father had emigrated first, and who became a U.S. citizen derivatively when his father was naturalized on October 29, 1913?

I'd especially appreciate responses from anyone familiar with pre-1914 German nationality law, the 10-year rule, derivative U.S. naturalization of minors, or historical German citizenship cases.

Thanks!

Hello!! I began my process in January 2025 and on January 2026 I was asked to do the fee payment and send the signed documents etc. Eventually my case worker told me everything was ok but my application was going to be paused as I started a new job on February and told me the process will continue after my probezeit ends which was in mid August. I already sent a letter from my employer confirming my employment and all my salary statements, case worker confirmed he received them and said he will go on with the process.

Does anyone knows how long it could take from now until I get the pickup appointment? I live in Hamburg, and before the application was paused the last thing I heard was that all my documents were good, just the probezeit thing.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Hi. I have been in a difficult situation, or I am just overthinking. I have been waiting for my German citizenship for 14 months now. I have a boyfriend in Switzerland, and I go there often, once a month, and stay there and even work from home in Switzerland. Could this create any problems for my German citizenship?