r/TMDnotTMJ

Yes. The jaw, head, and neck function as a connected system. When the jaw is strained, the neck muscles often work harder to stabilize the head and maintain posture.

Many patients with TMD report chronic neck tightness, stiffness, or pain. While neck pain can have many causes, jaw dysfunction is frequently overlooked as a contributing factor.

Related Topics:
Posture
Muscle Dysfunction
Head and Neck Connection

Book Reference:
Chapter 7 TMJ Trifecta

Just wanted to share my story because it might help someone who has looked at all other potential causes.

tl:dr
2.5 year horrible journey, did all the things from splints to botox to every specialist to you name it. Simple exam by an orthopedic surgeon led to a cervical spine mri to discover bulging discs, stenosis, etc... were causing all the tmjd symptoms. Life is changing and improving quickly. See below for details.

Edit: Getting messages and replies about the spinal decompression machine. I just looked it up and it's called "Back On Trac," the website shows lower back decompression but there's an attachment for cervical spine decompression. It's a professional machine, looks like they cost $15-20k. At my pt it costs $100 per session but for any results everything says you need 10-20 sessions, I purchased 20 up front for a discount rate, coming to $1500.

December 2024 I had a routine dental exam, during x-rays I had a sharp pain in my gums on the interior, next to my tongue. When biting the x ray positioning equipment the metal cut into my tori pretty badly. Tori, is bone build up from clenching and is new bone so it is soft and it stretches the gums thin, so more succeptibal to damage.

I didn't think too much of it until a couple days later when my gums were swollen and my jaw was killing me. Went back and they recommended I see a periodontist. Over the next week waiting for that appointment I experienced horrible headaches, brain fog and sleep disruption. I felt like a zombie. The periodontist examined me and removed a splinter of bone and there was immediate relief. She explained this would be a temporary fix, as the bone would likely continue to splinter and work its way out now that this trauma had occurred. She was right, I'm back in there 3 or 4 weeks later, same symptoms... She removed the splinter and all was good. She reminded me this would likely continue and she recommended surgery to remove all the excess bone, tori. I told her I would think about it.

A month or so later, I'm in absolute tmjd Hell. Sleep for 7 hours, feels like 2, my jaw is cramping, sore to the touch, neck and shoulders are stiff and feel like they're constantly flexing. Brain fog, my God the brain fog. I did not feel like myself. I scheduled the tori removal. Once this was done (awful experience... but worth it in the longterm) and I healed, I had already been talking to my dentist (new dentist, tmjd focus) about a splint and potentially botox. Got the splint and maybe a 5% improvement for $700. They recommended I try tmj massage, tmj focused physical therapy.

Months of pt, massage, and splint, zero help, oh and I was doing all the release, stretches etc... I could find on Youtube. Using all the topicals I could think of, cbd, blu emu, tiger balm, everything, all very little help for jaw and head. I'm six or seven months in at this point. I quit caffiene, alcohol, all my supplements and vitamins to try and eliminate all variables. AFter a month off all of that, I started magnesium supplements, l-theanine, gaba, bcaa, and all the supplements I was on before, including coffee, quitting made zero difference for me.

Month 9, my dentist perscribed me cyclobenzaprine to assist with a really bad flare up and there was quite a bit of relief but can only take it for two weeks. Back into Hell I went. All this time I am working full time, have two kids under 10, doing brazilian jiu jitsu, lifting weights, staying very active but in a constant haze.

After 3 months of PT I gave that up and did Botox in month 11. Magic, completely felt like my old self and halfway through month 3 of that first round of botox, I went ahead and got it again, hoping it would continue. Didn't work at all, right back into Hell.

The next year would be spent seeing everyone I could get referred to:
Tongue Tie Specialist- negative for tongue tie
Orthodontist- Everything was fine, he said there are things we could fix but it's not the cause. He recommended a therapist thinking it was stress induced.
Sleep specialist- negative for sleep apnea
Purchased a cervical pillow, occipital release wedge thing, heating pads, ice packs, all the nsaids, nothing is helping.
Meditation, yoga, long breaks from bjj and lifting. None of it moved the needle. OH, dry needling also!

Important work stuff coming up, I asked my dentist for a couple weeks worth of 2.5mg of cyclobenzaprine and he obliged. Again, great help but temporary.

Saw a therapist, searching for any past trauma, work/life stress, after 3 months, she told me I am a very well balanced individual who does not seem to react negatively to stress, no underlying trauma, and wished me good luck!

At this point I'm about two months past my two year anniversary of this mess and I go see my orthopedic surgeon with some questions regarding my knee (had 30% meniscectomy a couple years prior and I like to check my knees with him every six months or so) Knees were totally fine but I told him about the tmjd and I had read whiplash could cause those symptoms and being in bjj, moments can be whiplash adjacent. So he did the very simple and quick Spurling Test, checks for pain when compressing the cervical spine by pushing down on the head while the patient looks up and to the right/left. One side I had a sharp pain when he pushed and he said, "I'll order you an MRI."

Forgot to mention, before this I saw my general physician and he put me on 2.5mg cyclobenzaprine as theraputic, said that low of a dose is no issue well beyond the two weeks. He said he knew many doctors and dentist that took 5mg daily to deal with bruxism. It definitely helpd and that is important to the story but I knew I didn't want to just be on flexeril for long term.

MRI came back, not good, but not terrible but some clear answers to an over two year journey.

There is no spondylolisthesis or acute vertebral body fracture. The areas severe C6-7 degenerative disc disease along with moderate degenerative disc disease at all remaining levels except C7-T1. There is no abnormal spinal cord signal.

C2-C3: There is mild diffuse disc bulging and moderate right facet arthropathy.

C3-C4: There is mild diffuse disc bulging and moderate right and mild left facet arthropathy.

C4-C5: There is mild diffuse disc bulging and moderate bilateral facet arthropathy.

C5-C6: There is a disc osteophyte complex, small superimposed left paracentral disc protrusion and severe right and mild left facet arthropathy resulting in moderate right neural foraminal narrowing.

C6-C7: There is a disc osteophyte complex and mild bilateral facet arthropathy resulting in mild central canal stenosis and severe bilateral neural foraminal narrowing.

C7-T1: Unremarkable.

IMPRESSION:

Moderate degenerative changes including mild C6-C7 central canal stenosis and severe bilateral C6-C7 and moderate right C5-C6 neural foraminal narrowing.
Moderate degenerative changes including mild C6-C7 central canal stenosis and severe bilateral C6-C7 and moderate right C5-C6 neural foraminal narrowing. Osteoarthritis as well.

Everyone I talked to recommended a PM&R Doctor or Pain Management Dr. I found a highly recommended pain management Dr. Need to mention, all the way through this journey, every dr, specialist, etc... said there's no reason to slow down my physical activity, bjj, lifting, et al...
He was extremely helpful, said all that scary stuff is not as bad as it sounds but it's not ideal either. Since I responded so well to the cyclobenzaprine, he put me on low does (5om mg the first month or to, now 25mg) nortriptyline, spinal decompression, and much more specific PT. He explained all those tmjd symptoms can easily be explained by the disc bulging contacting nerves and the stenosis. All of these things cause "muscle guarding," and my body was stuck in this cycle of fight/flight and muscle guarding. That was causing all the muscle fatigue, tightening, clenching, muscle spasms, etc...

The nortriptyline has been an absolute gamechanger, has allowed me to actually sleep, removed 80-90% of the tmjd symptoms to where I can clearly zero in on the cervical spine issues and feel what is happening and what causes discomfort. Spinal decompression is making a difference as well, the PT is making slow progress, and I've shifted my lifting to a core/hip and movement focus. Playing bjj differently with the idea compressing my neck is not going to help.

I am now entering month 5 with this new protocol and I'm probably going to go down to 10 or 20mg of nortriptyline very soon. There is still a long way to go but the last three months have been the best I've felt in 2.5 years. Maybe this story will help someone who has tried everything and being young doesn't mean you can't have bulging discs, degenaritve disc disease or other neck issues. Especially with the "tech neck," our young people are experiencing these days.

Almost forgot... the dentail exam trauma that potentially triggered all of this has no direct explination for why I wasn't experiencing these symptoms until this. Possibly the muscle guarding from the trauma. Wild, who knows?

Good luck, everyone!

I had been free of any TMD symptoms for the past 16 years with good acrylic nightguards, but a couple months ago, my trusty hard acrylic nightguard broke. I had to wait over a month to get a replacement (took several iterations because I have an anterior open bite which is difficult to fit apparently). In the meantime, I was paranoid about damaging my teeth (I also had a molar filling around this time with lingering sensitivity), so I got TMJ botox while waiting for the nightguard. I understand that botox is a band aid solution. My logic was it would limit the amount of damage my masseters could do on my teeth until l got situated with a new nightguard.
Now it’s been 2 weeks since I got my new nightguard, and 3 weeks since my TMJ botox. For the past few days I have new clicking on right side TMJ when I open my mouth to eat. It clicks and does so randomly throughout the meal. It also did a loud crack when I stretched my jaw earlier. No pain in that joint so far though.

I can’t figure out which of these may have contributed to the clicking in my jaw:
-TMJ botox
-new nightguard (although it feels relatively comfortable)
-chewing primarily on left side for the last month and going back to both sides for the past 2 weeks as the sensitivity of my filling has eased a bit

I also have burning mouth syndrome which onset when I stopped using the old cracked nightguard and tried one that ended up being ill fitting. Been burning off and on for the past 2 months…

A night guard is designed primarily to protect teeth from wear. Most are not designed to diagnose or correct the underlying cause of TMD symptoms.

If the jaw joints, muscles, and bite remain unbalanced, simply placing plastic between the teeth may not relieve symptoms. Success depends on proper diagnosis and selecting the right appliance for the right patient.

Related Topics:
Orthotics
Night Guards
Diagnosis

Book Reference:
Chapter 8 TMJ Trifecta

If u would u have the choice to pay for a good TMD dentist to help u not just to have nice teeth and gums but to help to relief your pain and restore comfortably your jaw function and return your quality of life even if this would be costing you significant investment of time and money or you would prefer to keep your money in your pocket and try to manage yourself from online advices and youtube channels from people without any TMD knowledge or qualification which might not help you or might make your symptoms even worst as TMD is complex and we all have different root causes ,what might work for one might not work for the others of course is everybody choice what they want to do and what they want to choose ,I'm not talking about me I just want some opinions 😊

this is a very strange one- and i’ve done so much research and no one seems to of mentioned it so i’d love if anyone could relate to this.

I’ve been struggling with the jaw pain for a while now but during a flare up this week i noticed something strange. I ate my dinner and felt something stuck in my furthest back upper tooth- so i used my tongue to feel for it, but strangely as my tongue brushed over my back upper teeth it felt like something opened up in my ear? so i tried again, and again, and again, and its sort of become a habit- and it happens every time, that opening sensation. i’m certain it can’t be the eustachian tube, because nothing in my hearing changes etc. I’m not sure what it is, but from all the research i’ve done the only conclusion I can come to is that it is infact related to the TMJ. I of course get the usual ear pressure and fullness, but this is different. it’s started happening even when i brush my tongue against my lower back teeth now. has anyone else ever had this ?

I've been dealing with TMD issues for over 40 years. So many years ago, occlusal equilibration was thought to help, so I had that through a supposed expert at the time, which I think made things worse in the long term. Have done multiple physical therapy sessions, biofeedback, and chiropractor sessions. Have gone through several bite guards and have now had a lower appliance for about two years, made by a neuromuscular dentist, who all he does are the orthotics, he does not do any dental procedures of Phase 2 type work. It has helped some, but I'm definitely still having constant problems, constant tight muscles, and my jaw has started feeling like it's twisting. The last time I visited that dentist, he felt the appliance was balanced and nothing more he could do from that point of view. That was almost 2 yrs ago. From an MRI a few years ago, I'd describe my jaw joints as pretty well trashed. They used a rating scale for which mine were the worst, VIb. I'm quite afraid about what to do or who to see next, scared they will make it worse. Are there any providers in the western suburbs of Chicago, or Chicagoland area that are highly rated for helping to manage TMD problems? I'm not sure whether to return to the last neuromuscular dentist I saw, or seek out someone that does both phase 1 and phase 2, or find an oral facial pain doctor, etc. n thanks, and thanks for this sub. I can see there is a lot of information and good experience here.

Yes. When the position of the jaw joint changes, the lower jaw may shift with it. As a result, the way the teeth fit together can also change.

Many patients mistakenly believe their teeth moved first. In reality, a change in joint position often causes the bite change. The bite is frequently the symptom rather than the cause.

Related Topics:
Joint Position
Occlusion
Disc Displacement

Book Reference:
Chapter 5 TMJ Trifecta

Clicking is common, but it is not normal. A click often indicates that the disc inside the joint is not functioning properly. While a painless click may remain stable for years, it can also be an early warning sign of joint dysfunction.

A click is the body's way of telling you that something within the joint is not moving normally.

Related Topics:
Disc Displacement
Joint Dysfunction
Jaw Sounds

Book Reference:
Chapter 3 TMJ Trifecta

Yes. The jaw joint sits directly in front of the ear canal, and many of the muscles and nerves associated with the jaw are closely connected to the ear region. As a result, jaw joint compression and muscle tension can create symptoms that feel like an ear problem even when the ear itself is healthy.

Many patients see multiple ENT physicians before discovering that their ear pain is actually coming from the jaw system.

Related Topics:
Ear Pain
Referred Pain
Joint Compression

Book Reference:
Chapter 4 TMJ Trifecta

People hate TMD dentists and upper cervical chiropractors because is expensive or don't believe in this treatments despite treating us with success for TMD and C1 bone misaligment which no other doctors want to treat but were happy with other "qualified non scam "doctors which took us more money and our quality of life when we born didn't noticed that we are tongue tied which affected our jaws and later in childhood removed out teeth and left us with missing teeth and never told us that all this later in our adult life can cause TMD issues which also affected our C1 upper spine and now i think we deserve to pay the TMD dentists and the upper cervical chiropractors to give our life quality back,health is more value then money.

Signed by a TMD and C1 sufferer patient.

I am almost done listening to Dr Lee's book "The TMJ Trifecta" and felt like recommending it here. I was diagnosed with TMD just a few weeks ago and was left overwhelmed by all the info available on Reddit. I wish I had just started with this book instead. It helped me understand the ins and outs of the TMJ and what all could be causing my TMD.

If you are reading through Reddit filled with anxiety at what all could be wrong with you, I would instead proposing reading through this book first. I'm listening to it on Audible.

Hi! A little bit of a rant post but also would love some advice. I’m 22 yo female and Ive had TMJ symptoms for the past 6 or so years since I was 16 before I knew what TMJ was. It started with feeling like I couldn’t find a way to relax the base of my head when laying down and then the tingly and warm sensations spread to my shoulder, neck, face and sometimes my left hip? And of course my jaw. Feeling like I can’t turn off these muscles.

I went to PT but the whole time I was there I felt so dismissed and not taken seriously. After 8 weeks 2x a week with them I left feeling worse than when I started. Now it’s switching sides and I’ve developed ear fullness and I’ve started having these tics for lack of a better word? Like weird spasms and vocal tics. I’m a singer and guitar teacher and I was worried maybe I was using my jaw when I sang but my voice coach said my jaw looked fine. I am working on my general posture though especially when I’m playing guitar and teaching. But with ear fullness now, I feel like it’s making my music so much less enjoyable to work on. Now, it’s just painful and I can’t even hear myself properly.

I’m trying not to lose hope because I haven’t tried everything yet but it’s really hard not to. I cannot live my whole life like this. I’m looking into acupuncture, and something called a TENS machine? Has anyone used one of those for TMJ? I want to try and stay away from Botox if I can because I’m scared I won’t be able to sing properly if it goes wrong.

What I’ve tried so far:
- TMJ specific PT (8 weeks 2x a week)
- massages on the problem areas
- mouth guard (felt like it made it worse at times)
- applying heat (mild temporary relief 50% of the time)
- anxiety meds
- TMJ pillows (wasted $120 bucks on that)

Thanks for listening and hopefully that all made sense writing was never my best subject in school. I’m hoping someone will relate to some of the symptoms I’ve described and might have a success story I can learn from. I don’t care if there’s still clicking or limited mobility. I just want to sing and smile without pain.

I have TMD for around 3-4 years, visited a dentist and he said that I need braces co cure my TMD — can it really be a solution?

I’m not sure if I should follow this recommendation, maybe you guys have experience with this?

Unfurtunatelly lots of people out there who don't understand TMD because of lack of education about it and don't know where to turn for help despite encourage them , obviously is everyone choice what to do but I'm shocked about what this one is saying this can put a person not me others who don't have education to go to the wrong direction ,I believe we must to find out our root causes of TMD which can be more then one and involves lots of professionals not just one and we all are different which work for one won't work for the other and is very sad to see that lots of people are just believe that their TMD issues can be managed only with botox or a random nightguard and the root causes can't be treated just managed, I DON'T agree with this ,always will be people out there with pros or cons, in a world with lack of education for doctors and patients about TMD i'm not surprised that are so many people out there not knowing that their roots cause can be treated succesfully not just managed ,I'm just a TMD patient who learned and still learning about TMD and I just want to help people to guide them to the correct professionals to not stay years "closed" living and suffering with this by just managing symptoms.

I've been having a pretty high level of discomfort in my right jaw, but I want to emphasize that I have no pain at all no poping or clicking sound i can hear . It's more of an annoying sensation, almost like something is lodged in my inner cheek or around the jaw area. it has been alsmost 1 week since i am feeling this and it is getting worse by the minute

I've tried several relief methods that I found on YouTube, and they sometimes help for a short while, but the discomfort always comes back.

From what I've read, TMJ issues can be related to stress and anxiety, but I don't think those apply to me. However, I do have some other possible contributing factors:

• I often sleep in awkward positions.
• I frequently deal with randon neck pain.
• I work a desk job and spend many hours sitting in front of a computer.

I'm wondering if this could still be TMJ even without any pain. Has anyone experienced something similar persistent jaw discomfort or a strange sensation in the jaw/inner cheek area without actual pain? If so, what turned out to be the cause, and did anything help?

Thanks in advance.