r/TrueQiGong

The classics say one thing, modern schools are doing another - Who is right?

This is something I've spent a lot of time looking at, and the gap between what the classical neidan texts actually say and what most modern schools teach is wider than people realise.

The classical position is straightforward. You fill the dantian, the small orbit opens from the pressure of that fullness, the filling continues, and eventually the surplus overflows into the extraordinary vessels and the macrocosmic orbit. No separate technique is needed for each vessel. The opening is a consequence of abundance.

Zhang Boduan's Bamai jing states it plainly: all people possess the eight extraordinary vessels, but in ordinary people they remain closed. Only the immortals open them, driving them with the yang qi. It names the agent, the accumulated yang qi, but no method for each vessel individually. It then adds that once this source stirs, all the vessels open through together. Not one at a time. Together, from a single abundance.

The Xingming guizhi describes the same principle as a cascade: rest the spirit in the lower centre, and over time the original qi fills daily. When the spirit is vigorous the qi flows, when the qi flows the blood harmonises, when the blood harmonises the bones grow strong, when the bones grow strong the marrow fills. Each level fills as a consequence of the one before it. The practitioner's only task is the first clause: rest the spirit here. Everything else is overflow.

The modern schools do something very different. They bring the extraordinary vessels forward and work them directly, often early in the training, with specific breathing patterns, guided routes through the channels, and step-by-step instructions for each pathway. The belt channel gets rotation exercises. The central channel gets vertical breathing along the core. The heel vessels get guided awareness rising from the ankles. The governing vessel gets spinal wave sequences. These are treated as practices in their own right rather than as openings that arrive from fullness.

These methods appear abundantly in modern practice manuals but not in the classical source texts. The classics name no distinct technique for the macrocosmic orbit and describe the opening of the vessels only as a consequence of abundance.

Considering the supposedly unmistakable signs of the greater medicine forming and the lack of people experiencing this in a safe and natural way.

The signs are:

the dantian blazing with fire
both kidneys boiling like soup
eyes emitting golden light
wind rising behind the ears
eagle crying behind the brain
body surging, nose twitching

Zhang Sanfeng's describes it as a thunderclap shaking heaven. Shao Kangjie: Suddenly at midnight a clap of thunder, and ten thousand gates open one after another. Zhong Liquan: The accomplished one gathers the precelestial qi, and one night the thunder does not stop.

The Wuzhen pian uses the character for lightning directly: the lightning of Kan roasts and thunders in the place of metal and water.

A practitioner account from Zhao Bichen's lineage describes the experience as: the whole body like ants crawling, then suddenly the dantian heats up and the whole body goes tingling and numb.

Any of you guys already working on the middle dantian or upper dantian experience the production of the greater medicine as explained in the classics before starting with them?

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u/Rudolf_3090 — 2 days ago

Misdirected Energy… Help please!

I have a problem that I hope someone on here can help me with. I’m trying to begin Qigong and work towards Neidan exercises, with my far term goal being to cultivate spiritual resilience, fully transform myself with its inner alchemy and increase the natural longevity I inherited from my family. Only… I’m having trouble getting started building my lower Dantian.

The reason is actually kinda embarrassing. See, when I was younger I put a lot of emphasis on mental strength and trying to open my third eye. I had unknowingly been cultivating/building up my upper Dantian. Now that I’m trying to build/cultivate my lower Dantian every time I try to meditate, my attention automatically snaps to the area of my third eye, making it a struggle to direct the energy to my lower dantian. Even more irritating, I can feel this area is active throughout the day even without me focusing on it. I don’t know what to do. Do I just struggle through it?

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u/Character_Barracuda3 — 2 days ago

Have you also practiced any kind of Tibetan Yoga, like Trul Khor, Tsa Lung or the Five Tibetan Rites? How did you feel compared to Qigong?

Have you also practiced any kind of Tibetan Yoga, like Trul Khor, Tsa Lung or the Five Tibetan Rites? How did you feel compared to Qigong?

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u/Famous-Interest103 — 1 day ago

What the classics say the medicine feels like when it forms

There are two events the neidan texts describe, the forming of the small medicine and the forming of the great medicine and the physical descriptions are surprisingly specific.

The small medicine is the quieter of the two. The sources describe warmth gathering in the dantian, light behind the closed eyelids, the whole body becoming soft and tingling, wind heard behind the ears , and white light appearing in the empty chamber. These come on gradually during the foundation and small orbit work.

The great medicine is a different thing entirely. Wu Shouyang's Xianfo hezong gives the classical list under the heading of the six roots shaking:

the dantian blazing with fire
both kidneys boiling like soup
eyes emitting golden light
wind rising behind the ears
eagle crying behind the brain
body surging, nose twitching

Zhang Sanfeng's describes it as a thunderclap shaking heaven. Shao Kangjie: Suddenly at midnight a clap of thunder, and ten thousand gates open one after another. Zhong Liquan: The accomplished one gathers the precelestial qi, and one night the thunder does not stop.

The Wuzhen pian uses the character for lightning directly: the lightning of Kan roasts and thunders in the place of metal and water.

A practitioner account from Zhao Bichen's lineage describes the experience as: the whole body like ants crawling, then suddenly the dantian heats up and the whole body goes tingling and numb.

What stands out to me is how physical and violent the great medicine descriptions are. Thunder, lightning, boiling, fire, the whole body surging. These are not gentle meditative experiences. The term su ma, tingling and numbing is the closest the classical vocabulary comes to what a modern person would probably describe as a strong electric current.

The small medicine is warm, quiet, gradual. The great medicine is sudden, forceful, and unmistakable.

Did anyone experience these crazy sensations at the end of stage 2 of neidan / internal alchemy?

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u/Rudolf_3090 — 3 days ago

Can a qigong healer help if you’ve been feeling drained/burned out for years?

Hey all 👋

I’m not exactly sure why but I’ve been feeling wiped for years..maybe due to burnout and personal and career issues who knows. I eat decently, take walks, meditate, blood work is fine, done therapy, reiki, medication, engage in hobbies, psychedelics…tried what I could. I talked to someone the other day who said they felt some big shifts after working with a qigong practitioner.

Has anyone worked with a qigong practitioner to help rid them of the “drained” feeling? Or worked with them for mental/emotional purposes? I’ve forgotten what it feels like to feel fresh and to have a zest for life. Small disclosure but I haven’t been intimate in quite awhile—years lol—not sure if that also contributes

How does one find a good qigong healer near them? Does remote healing work fine too?

Thanks

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u/Wandering043Enigma — 8 days ago

Six healing sounds query

I have the book "Tao of No Stress" by Stuart Alves Olson and he outlines the sounds as follows.

Shoo - Liver gallbladder

Haa - Heart

Hoo - Stomach Spleen

Sss - Lungs

Foo - kidney

Shee - circularity and nervous system

My question is, Shoo, Hoo and Foo all have a very similar sound, are they vocalised different levels anyone else have experience with this particular breathing set...

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u/floki_1503 — 9 days ago

How to start Qigong V E R Y S L O W L Y ? Advice requested.

Hello. I am wondering if any of you have insight you would like to share.

I am thinking of doing something like "Greasing the Groove" with Qigong movements. Basically taking one movement, practicing it only a few times, a few times each day. And very slowly building a practice that way.

I wonder if doing just one section of some form would end up making me even more imbalanced.

Any thoughts?

For background: I have tried a few time to start up a Qigong practice, each time I end up having some very intense symptoms that throw me out of whack for a long time. A migraine, intense anger and/or sadness, most recently I got very hot and developed a respiratory infection.

Similar reactions occur when I try to start other forms of exercise. I get Post Exertional Malaise pretty easily, I am very tired and very sore for much longer than seems warranted for the amount of effort. I've been going to my doctors, but so far they haven't come up with any kind of diagnosis.

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u/ZorraZilch — 8 days ago

Which Qigong to do?

I'm new to Qigong and want to heighten my senses and develop spiritually. I did the 8 brocades daily for about 4 months and I'm looking for something else but I don't know what, with my working hours I don't have the option of going to a class or finding a master to learn from right now so I use online videos.

The job I'm transitioning into requires me to feel the energy and subtleties of peoples energy field, access and guide that energy with my hands and the better I get the more I can help people in the safest way.

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u/Awkward-Wishbone-615 — 11 days ago

HOw TO distinguish between yin and yang energy in the body? how to know how they each feel.

want to know how to exact feel the difference in them?

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u/deadmanwalkikg — 11 days ago
▲ 4 r/TrueQiGong+1 crossposts

beginner experiences and problems

Hi, first off thanks for reading and take your time to reply if you choose to do so.

i had been doing meditation practices like sitting quiet , or chanting om (i didnt breathe properly though , i'd breathe from chest) for 1-2 year though not consistent. last month i got introduced to qigong and taoist meditation through online platforms and it felt natural to me so i thought yeah this is for me .

then i started doing belly breathing , inner seeing and hearing, from nathan brine book, also jingang gong and zhan zhuang. sometimes when i do it , my sense of time fades , mind calms and sometimes i have difficulty breathing in belly . i feel like there isnt any oxygen in the air im breathing so fast like hyperventilation or overbreathing. i'm also preparing for competitive exams so i have a lot of sitting hours and sometime i feel tingling sensations in my feet too.

now i don't know if i'm doing anything wrong or is this any side effects or something like that.

thanks for taking your time to read and reply

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u/Beneficial-Funny-538 — 10 days ago

Clarity on experiences

Hi, first off thanks for taking the time to read and reply if you choose to do so.

I am extremely new to Qi Gong in its practice. However, as I am learning more and more, im noticing I've been doing things on my own that fall in line with Qi Gong. For example; when I lay down to go to bed I would focus my awareness on my toes and work my way up my body until I fall asleep. Haven't made it past my mid section, hahah.

I came across a post in here talking about how to cultivate chi. This is very simple generalization, but essentially bring your awareness inwards, focus on a point, shen will accumulate and then chi will follow. It hit me that I've been doing that (not regularly) but playing around with it.

Now for some of the experiences I've had;

When I focus this way and start at my toes, the moment I relax and bring awareness there my toes start twitching and moving all on their own. I can even move the awareness from each toe 1 by 1 and the movement moves similarly. Not sure whats happening if its anything or just me?

The other thing is as I move up my leg and and down the other with the awareness. 1 time I got to my hips and was working through them and just moving the awareness around, and one side of my hips felt hot and the other felt cold, not at the same time. When I focused on one. Cold like mint. I've had this happen 1 time, and read a post briefly on here where I glanced and someone mentioned hot/cold.

So I thought id ask. I feel completely depleted and am attempting to cultivate chi and starting with where I know how, awareness focused internally.

TLDR; been playing with my awareness internally only to learn later on thats a beginning step to cultivate chi. Had and continue to have some interesting experiences when doing so. 1) when I bring awareness to my toes and relax, they move on their own. 2) happened one time, but bringing my awareness to my hips one side felt hot and the other cold, like mint.

Not sure what to make of these. Thanks for your time and reading and replying. I do appreciate it

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u/bubblegum_murphy — 11 days ago