Sare far and wide

Are we still following Gifford Pinchot’s maxims?

Pinchot's Guide to the Behavior of Foresters in Public Office

1. A public official is there to serve the public and not run them.
2. Public support of acts affecting public rightsis absolutely required.
3. It is more trouble to consult the public than to ignore them, but that is what you are hired for.
4. Find out in advance what the public will stand for. If it is right and they won’t stand for it, ­postpone action and educate them.
5. Use the press first, last, and all the time if you want to reach the public.
6. Get rid of an attitude of personal arrogance or pride of attainment or ­superior knowledge.
7. Don’t try any sly, or foxy politics. A forester is not a politician.
8. Learn tact simply by being absolutely honest and sincere, and by learning to recognize the point of view of the other man and meet him with arguments he will understand.
9. Don’t be afraid to give credit to someone else even when it belongs to you. Not to do so is the sure mark of a weak man, but to do so is the hardest lesson to learn. Encourage others to do things;you may accomplish many things through others that you can’t get done on your single initiative.
10. Don’t be a knocker. Use persuasion rather than force, when possible. [There are] plenty of ­knockers to be had. Your job is to promote unity.
11. Don’t make enemies unnecessarily and for trivial reasons. If you are any good you will make plenty of them on matters of straight honesty and public policy and will need all the support you can get.

It seems that all the press on this is coming from the US Fire Service but two of the three were Forest Service. Nothing from the chief???

Do you have any idea what this could mean. I applied for a fire job and all my references got the fillable reference form but the hiring unit never even called me if I was interested. I know for non fire jobs they always call to interview first then references either after interview or slightly before. Just never had that happen before with other fire jobs also. Thanks in advance.

I work in a field-based position within a Research Station, and my office is collocated within a National Forest. I recently applied for a 120 day detail, which would qualify as a temporary promotion, based out of a local Forest district within the national forest I live near. I would be very excited to get this detail, as it dovetails with my interests heavily, more so than my current position, and I know many people on the National Forest who encouraged me to apply. This is about as close to a ‘dream job’ as I could imagine in the Forest Service given my interests and background.

I have been in my position (my first with the federal government) for exactly 3 years, and have had very good annual reviews and praise/feedback about my performance during that time. I have, however, realized that my opportunities for promotion within my unit are very slim, just due to the structure of my situation. I would have to wait for years to take a position I would likely not want, and move multiple states away on top of that, in this hypothetical future in which I am promoted within my unit. I am not a high level or supervisory employee. Three new employees at my position, including 2 who were hired the same time as me, have quit and/or taken the DRP since my start, and this directly and heavily impacted/elevated my workload, with no timetable on any new hires being made. I have also previously been denied a Forest Service provided training attendance that I specifically outlined in my IDP which was approved by my supervisor. My job is able to be done by contractors, but on short notice it would likely be difficult to draw up a contract. My coworkers would likely have to pick up the slack.

I applied for this detail 2 weeks ago, and in a very short turnaround (this week) was told that it was being offered to me. I did not have time to notify my current supervisor, mainly because I did not plan to do so unless I thought I was in the running, but I was basically interviewed and offered the detail in the same day. I am very happy about this, but know it will put my current unit in a bind for a few months. However, the job I am detailing for has been vacant for quite awhile also and is a job with high need for being performed.

I’m really excited about the opportunity to learn new skills and develop professionally within the Forest Service. However, when I emailed my current supervisor with the news and offering to have a phone call, he denied a phone call (said he did not have time all day) and is instead having conversations with all of his bosses, and openly speculated in his response that they may opt to not allow me to do the detail, even though I have no black marks against me and have been helping hold things together while we were short staffed. They will apparently have more conversations about it before they make a decision. Many other coworkers have done details the past few years, but all of them were within the unit and thus considered allowable/necessary, however I was not tenured enough to be in the running for those details. I have a higher level of educational attainment and years of supervisory experience that most of my tenured coworkers in my position don’t have, and took this slightly lower paying job to be able to move into the federal government (terrible timing, but still here) and have a real desire for professional development opportunities. My potential supervisor/District Ranger has said he is open to a hybrid setup and is very supportive in general.

TLDR; Can my boss deny me a temporary promotional detail just because it would make their life more inconvenient? I don’t do anything that will impact safety or national security and have excellent performance reviews. He did not rule it out but I’m getting the feeling they are circling the wagons to figure out a way to deny me. I am a member of a union, but am not sure if it would help in this situation or not.

Has anyone seen this happen?

Very excited to be taking a detail into a special uses position soon with some cross training in lands/minerals!!! Feels amazing to have a tiny bit of positive excitement in my career after these last couple years.

I am vaguely familiar with special uses and think I will do well at the duties, but just wondering if there are and folks who have/do work in special uses that want ro share any tips/tricks/advice or just speak about their career experience?

I come from a field, recreation/partnership background so I am used to dealing with the ridiculous public and their strange demands.

Please remember that outlasting these people is your victory. Rus Vought thought this.... "We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected... When they wake up in the morning, we want them to not want to go to work because they are increasingly viewed as the villains. We want to put them in trauma." and you will have soon already outlasted this pipsqueak flash in the pan and his hate for good, competent, management.

Take care of yourselves but hang in there. I'm optimistic that there will be positive change within the next few months and we'll need you experienced folks to fix a lot of this damage and pass on your knowledge, experience and passion to the next generation of public land managers. Have a great weekend everyone.

How much institutional knowledge can the Washington Office lose before it begins affecting the Forest Service's mission?

Regardless of where people stand on the relocation, one thing that isn't discussed enough is the value of institutional knowledge. The agency has also experienced significant departures in recently through retirements and other workforce reductions.

If a substantial number of Washington Office employees choose not to relocate:

• Which programs or functions would be affected first?
• Which positions would be the hardest to replace?
• What knowledge can be documented and transferred, and what only comes from years or decades of experience?
• How long would it realistically take to rebuild that expertise?
• At what point would the loss of experience begin affecting the Forest Service's ability to carry out its mission of caring for the nation's forests and serving the public?

I'm not looking to debate politics or whether the relocation is right or wrong. I'm genuinely interested in hearing from current and former Forest Service employees about how they think this could affect the agency over the next few years.

Hi all, I posted in here about a month and a half ago, wondering if there had been any word on outside hiring starting again soon. I left the agency for my own personal reasons unrelated to the job at the beginning of the year. I've since sorted it out and would love to get back with the agency but obviously, that is difficult these days. Basically, I'm wondering if anyone has heard anything (rumor or otherwise) on outside hiring timelines? Thanks in advance!

Anyone else tired of the messaging that we should be using partnership agreements and then the approval process fights you on the partnership every single step of the way?

Has anyone heard any updates or rumors on voluntary relocation? I am just curious if there is any information floating around out there. I missed the last update call due to PTO.