r/exjwmeetup

In yesterday’s study, we covered his faith, his endurance, how he never turned his back on Jehovah through everything he lost. And look, that part is real. I'm not disputing that.

But here's what I couldn't shake sitting in that room.

Job never found out why.

The wager between God and the Accuser is only shown to us as readers. It's right there in Job 1:6-12 and Job 2:1-6. God and the Accuser going back and forth, essentially betting on whether Job's integrity would hold under pressure. Job himself died never knowing any of that conversation happened. His first ten children died in Job 1:18-19. Real people. And at the end in Job 42:13 he gets ten new ones like that somehow closes the wound.

Now the explanation I was raised with is that God is allowing things to play out to prove Satan's challenge is illegitimate. That if He intervened too soon it would look like He was silencing the opposition rather than disproving it.

And I want to be clear. I never actually bought that. Not in my heart. I went along with it the way you go along with things when the room isn't built for pushback. But privately? It never sat right.

Because think about it. An omnipotent God already knows the outcome. He doesn't need a proof that runs for thousands of years and costs endless lives to make its point. And calling human beings unwilling participants in a cosmic courtroom drama without their knowledge or consent and then calling that justice... I can't get there. I've tried.

What gets me is that Job himself demanded answers. In Job 13:3 he says straight up "I desire to speak to the Almighty and to argue my case with God." In Job 23:3-5 he says "If only I knew where to find him, I would go to his court. I would state my case before him and fill my mouth with arguments. I would find out what he would answer me and consider what he would say." That's not a man performing faith. That's a man demanding accountability.

And what did he get back? Job 38:4. God speaks from the whirlwind and says "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?" Which is powerful. I'm not dismissing that. But power and justice are not the same thing. Job asked why and God answered with how big He is. And then in Job 42 everything gets restored but the explanation never comes. Not once.

That silence is intentional. And I think a lot of us have felt it sitting in those chairs and just never said it out loud.

That's what I'm doing now. Saying it out loud.

If you've ever sat through a study and felt that gap between what's being taught and what you actually feel in your gut, you're not spiritually weak. You might just be thinking more honestly than the setting allows for.

Hi all,

I’ve been trying to put myself out there more lately and thought I’d post here. I’m looking to make new friendships and connections, especially with people who understand the whole ex-JW experience and rebuilding life/social circles afterwards.

I’m based in London and into things like coffee, food spots, walks, fitness/wellness, spontaneous plans, and trying new experiences.

Would genuinely love to meet more like-minded people, even if it just starts with a conversation 😊

Hey loves!
I’m in Vegas and would love to connect and make friend with ex jws! I’ve been out for 3yrs or so
I also speak Spanish but for the most part most of us grew up somewhat alike 😭 hahaha
Let’s meet up!

New here. Honestly never thought I’d be posting here, much less joining. Though I’ve never been fully on board with JW teaching I’ve spent the past 40+ years of my life just going with it, so as not to disappoint others. Imagine having to wear a mask without ever being able to take it off. That was me, and I’m sure it’s many of you as well.

My folks were baptized when I was 5 and my dad quickly progressed. Eventually becoming an elder and presiding overseer (now called coordinator). My mom was regular pioneer, we had book study at my house, and weekday service came out of there as well. As a child, I could never really grasp the concept of “god”. An invisible being in heaven watching over us? I could never buy into it. But I couldn’t question that. Wasn’t allowed. Apostates question and oppose.

I learned how to pretend to enjoy the spiritual things. Got baptized in 1995 at 17, and had little privileges here and there but didn’t progress much. So much so that a CO noticed the PIMO in me and said “don’t waste your time here. If this isn’t what you want, leave. Make something of yourself out there if you’re not going to do it here.” Good advice but I knew it wasn’t coming from a good place.

My inability to show real enthusiasm began to show more and more, but I still couldn’t find it in me to leave. The organization does a good job at instilling fear in “the world”. “There’s nothing out there. Happiness and satisfaction is short lived” they would say. So I’d stay put, out of fear and in hopes that something would click and I’d finally find joy in being a part of the organization. But I just couldn’t make sense of so much that they taught from the bible. Especially when you look at it from a logical and scientific standpoint.

I’d eventually move out and moved to a different congregation in the new neighborhood. I lasted one year before I’d go inactive. Lasted 7 years. Made some friends, worked in marketing, got involved in community activities, social activism, etc., but at some point, I started developing some anxiety and I thought maybe going back would help. Being a part of a community with tight bonds was appealing to me. But that desire clouded what I had known since I was a young boy. That sense of community, the love, the brotherhood…it’s not unconditional. You have to fall in line, accept it all as truth, and never question any of it. My desperation for some type of belonging made me forget about that.

So back I go. The prodigal son. Walking in to the hall, a lot of familiar faces, outnumbered by new ones, but all of them welcoming me back. Lots of hugs and kisses, even some tears. I don’t doubt that it was genuine. I just know that if I hadn’t gone back, and they saw me out in the street, the vibe would be much different. But again, that euphoric feeling of being the center of this outpouring of love was unbearable. I was almost convinced that this was in fact the truth. God’s people. I was home. For the next year or two, I was active. Going to service weeknights, early Saturday morning, and group afterwards. Giving parts, helping out at the hall with sound, mics, stage. Leading the group in service, etc.

During all that, I met my wife. I had just left a toxic relationship. I should have given myself more time but my mom and a lot of the sisters I considered mother figures all tried to play match maker. She was attractive. Kind, very independent, and spiritual. After the memorial in 2018, we all went out to eat and she sat next to me. We talked, and talked, and talked some more. The following January we were married.

A year later, I was recommended as servant. I accepted. This was a turning point. This was when my doubts became assurance. Assurance that god (as I was taught) is not real. You see, in the entire time that I came back, and made all this progress, I was still leading a double life. I’d flirt with some of the women at work, id hook up with this one girl I met at the gym I frequented, I’d watch porn, masturbate, you name it.

How could a group of elders, under prayer and led by the Holy Spirit choose me to serve the congregation in any capacity? Still, in an effort to keep up appearances for the congregation, my family, and my wife, I accepted. Eventually, I started giving public talks. Going to other congregations as well.

In that time I reconnected with an old flame from my late teens. We’d have phone sex, FaceTime where she’d strip for me and we’d masturbate together, she’d send lewd pics from the bathroom at work, and I’d reciprocate. Eventually, her husband found out, confronted me, I confessed, a week later I was an MS no longer and publicly reproved.

I still go to meetings. I’m commenting and giving parts again. Still not helping out in any capacity, but the act of being that active and enthusiastic member of the congregation is wearing thin.

In September I had a mental health crisis where I just wanted to disappear. Checked in at the hospital, and a week later was diagnosed with anxiety and depression. 2 months later with ADHD (with Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria as one of the dominant traits). As I continued with my weekly visits with the psychiatrist we’ve come to one conclusion in that 40+ years of masking. Being a part of something I don’t believe in, being intellectually, socially, and sexually repressed, making decisions based on what others thought was best for me as opposed to making decisions based on what I thought was best for me (including marrying someone who, while being a great person, I just could never develop the deep feelings you should have for a spouse), all have taken a severe psychological toll on me. And if I continue, it could lead to irreversible consequences.

Which leads me to a crossroads. Do I rip the bandaid off and just walk away knowing that in doing so, will mean starting over from zero. If I was in my 20s, it’d be a lot easier. As a middle aged man, not so.

I’m not even sure why I’m writing all of this. Maybe it’s to finally let out what I’ve only discussed with my therapist? Or find other people who have gone through the same or still are? Maybe someone will have the answers I’m looking for. Whatever it is, the PIMO life is not meant to be a long term thing. If you’re in the process of checking out, don’t wait until your life is turned upside down because of it.

Anybody in the NYC area down to chill out? Preferably Southern Queens/South shore Long Island? Even if not in person, we can chat here or text. Just want to start making a new circle

Interview with Micah Allen Losh. Micah is the author of several books: "Mentally Diseased," "Gangrenous Speeches," "Despicable," and "Sisu: Desolation before Motivation." He helped produce "Witness Underground," and spoke at an EXJW convention in Boston. He is currently working on four books, one of which is a book about critical thought and skepticism for his eight year old son.

So I have emotionally and mentally left. I am done! However, I have decided to re-engage only as far as a study. This is a pretend study. Not to rejoin at all. Just to sit with them and question them, see if they can explain themselves. I have disclosed everything to them that the org/elders/publishers did to me; things even done to me by my "witness" parents. I NEED THEM TO EXPLAIN WHY THEY ALLOWED IT AND HIDE IT AND TURNED THEIR BACKS ON ME!

I am well aware that once I walk away this avenue is gone. They will shun me (no matter what their case stated, shunning does still happen. It just has a different name. Very sneaky. I am well aware of this trick by lawyers, being that I worked in law myself.) I will be using research (both their jw.org & articles & bible, as well as non jw sources). I will also be using the Elder Manual.

However, what should I be starting with for questions? What would YOU all like to know? I am also willing to give FACTS, as their are many statements out there that are incorrect, out-dated, misleading or twisted as well as partial facts. There are many statements of facts though.

Put your questions below. I will do my best to answer them, or add them to my list to ask during my investigation (cause this is basically what the "study" is for me.)

POMO 22F just looking for friends that understand what its like.
Feel free to DM or chat!!