r/irishrugby

It’s high time that this ridiculous limitation imposed on the provinces is removed. It’s amateurish type stuff that we are still being forced to scour the earth for less than ideal IQ options like Jager, Dan Kelly etc. Absolutely bring in young academy guys in like Josh Neil, Ben O Donavan etc, but the fact that we still have to resort to scouring the earth for inferior IQ players in key positions, when there are much better and more affordable NIQ options available is completely ludicrous. Particularly in an age where all of the top and mid table teams across France and England are stacking quality on quality in every position via international recruits, it just feels like we are being left further and further behind.

I think that the remarkable strength of Leinster’s production line and the incredible work they have done to be able to survive and thrive under these restrictions, has glossed over how ridiculous this rule actually is for the other 3 provinces. Conveniently enough - now that Leinster’s production line is slowing down Humphries is finally starting to get ideas about loosening the restrictions. While Leinster have done an admirable job with their pathways system, the reality is that no other club team in Europe - bar maybeeee Toulouse would be able to survive and compete for European silverware under such a restrictive system. Because Leinster have factors and resources at play (catchment area, playing numbers etc) that no other club team certainly in UK and Ireland could tap into even if they wanted to. Would a Bath, or a Bordeaux or a Northampton be highly competitive at the latter stages of Europe if they had to operate under such an oppressive system? Absolutely not. So when you look at it that way, I think Munster have performed just fine in Europe in recent seasons - considering the limitations imposed on them. Munster will never ever have the playing numbers, or enough homegrown talent with sufficient genetic profile variation coming through to ever be able to have a well rounded squad in Europe under a 3 NIQ rule. It’s virtually impossible.

2010 is an important date - because it was the last year where Munster truly operated with the freedom of being able able to recruit enough foreign players to plug in weaknesses in the squad. From 2011 onwards, the provinces were forced to wind down the contracts of foreign players to ready themselves for the imposition of the NIQ 3 rule which came into effect in 2013. Not coincidentally, 2010 was the last time Munster actually had a squad capable of winning in Europe. Why ? Because we had a healthy blend of homegrown players, combined with NIQ players in areas where we were deficient. In 2010 we had Jean De Villers, Mafi, Howlett, Brugnaut, Nick Williams, Warwick. A good mix of top class internationals and unheralded, but talented NIQ players who gave us the pace, power, depth and X factor required to be able to compete. Granted, we played terrible and lost against a Biarritz team which we should and probably would have beat if it weren’t for key injuries. But at least we were able to put our best foot forward with a well rounded squad. Unlike in later semi finals where we fielded teams with distinct weaknesses against sides with much superior depth like Clermont 2013, Toulon 2014, Saracens 2017,19, Racing 2018. Yeah, we showed admirable grit against Clermont and Toulon (2013,2014) but the reality is that we never had the depth or quality off the bench to get across the line.

At this stage - I think the argument that NIQ players block the development of homegrown players is deeply flawed. In fact, it’s completely redundant because everybody can see that it’s a 23 man game now and bringing in good foreign players boosts competition for places in the squad, drives on young, homegrown players and provides the additional quality needed for homegrown players to progress to the latter stages of the Champions Cup. Has Slimani negatively impacted Clarkson? Snyman with Joe McCarthy? Augustus with Bryn Ward? There is virtually no example of a homegrown player’s development ever been negatively impacted by a foreign arrival. The cream always rises to the top and if you’re good enough, you will make it.

Like Dan Kelly - is he a good bloke and a bloody hard worker? Absolutely. But he’s a very limited player with a narrow skill set. I could list you 15 better **and** cheaper NIQ players playing across Super Rugby and the top Euro leagues. Like why are we being forced to sign a reserve Leicester centre (firmly behind Kata, Woodward, Perese and was about to be usurped by Will Wand)

Ditto Antoine Frisch - because he was signed on big bucks (circa 250k) when there were far better and cheaper options out there. Was he a nice player? Yeah. But he lacked any sort of punch agaisnt better opposition and was very erratic both with ball in hand and in defence. Again - I could list you 20 better and cheaper outside centres than Frisch.

Ditto Mike Haley - a very gutsy, reliable player who I really like but doesn’t have the quality, talent or speed that even a guy like Paul Warwick back in the day offered.

Oil Jager? Is he a nice fella and has he been unfortunate with injury? Absolutely. But the clear consensus from any Crusaders fan before he signed was that he was very ordinary player with a terrible injury record. And couldn’t ever put a run of games together. And this was before the head problems started. Andy Farrell and Paul O Connell took one look at Jager and never invited him back to an Ireland camp and I can see why - he doesn’t use his size well and never has and he doesn’t apply himself well around the park. Can you imagine how better positioned Munster would be if we were able to sign a better, more reliable and similarly affordable/cheaper option - eg Fouche, Klopper, Sandi.

Hi folks,

We can see from the data that tone of the sub has improved considerably over the last year. Everyone’s to be commended on that. However, there has been a surge of conduct related complaints and removals in the last month.

Most of these reports relate to users, predominantly new accounts, failing to meet the normal standards of conversational decency and respect when interacting with other users.

We think that probably our most important job as mods is to protect users from abuse, harassment, targeting and antagonism. The sub works best if people feel like it’s a forum where they are automatically respected and people make an effort to preserve the dignity of others. Receiving comments that are intentionally spiteful or cruel, even when it’s from an anonymous person online, will make most peoples day worse and in some cases be genuinely hurtful.

With that in mind we will be considerably stricter moving forward on any form of personal attacks. It will result in an immediate ban of 30 days and a “probation” flair upon the users return. A second offence will result in a permanent ban. If the users account is less than 3 months old, it will result in a permanent ban immediately.

We are not trying to prohibit debate or argument. It’s ok to have strong opinions and entirely fine to strongly disagree with others. But ad hominem commentary will be moderated.

In general, argue in good faith. Everyone is here of their own volition to discuss the topic of irish rugby. Ideally, you should feel more informed, more connected and more involved in Irish rugby due to your participation in this sub, not less.

Thanks and best of luck to Ulster and Leinster this weekend any anyone travelling to Bilbao.

- mods

I know the scrum was an issue vs the boks but I mean why don’t Ireland struggle against the likes of Fiji, Tonga,Samoa , Ireland were the boks bogey team for a while.

Fiji is described as the “nation of perfect rugby athletes”
But yet we are the only team to never lose to them in the northern hemisphere and our last two games against them we have scored over 90 points.

Is it something Ireland do well with dealing with power teams?, I know Ireland are a physical team but other countries seem to struggle with them despite having more resources.

Just looking for anybodies thoughts

I was at the Ireland Scotland match and they’ve figured it out. They fixed the atmosphere!! Turns out it wasn’t the mascots or the music or any of that was the problem. It was the ould grumps giving out about it. If we replace all the ould grumps with women and kids it’s class.

Seriously, was one of the best atmospheres I’ve been part of.

Same format as usual metres carried and tackles counted in 5s and defenders beaten in 2s via Superbru Fantasy and Dominant tackles via RugbyPass.

Criteria for selection: https://www.reddit.com/r/irishrugby/s/McpjHU4CJE

Ulster

1. Tom Stewart (Hooker) - He put in 15 tackles (5 dominant), got 2 turnovers and carried 25m. A solid cameo from him.

2. Cormac Izuchuckwu (Hybrid Forward) - He put in 5 tackles, stole a line-out, got a turnover, carried 25m and broke the line. A decent cameo from him.

3. Charlie Irvine (2nd Row) - He put in 25 tackles and got a turnover. A solid defensive game from him.

4. Joe Hopes (2nd Row) - He put in 25 tackles, stole a line-out and carried 5m. A solid game from him.

5. Bryn Ward (Back Row) - He put in 20 tackles (1 dominant), carried 70m, broke the line, got past 4 defenders and got an assist. A great game from him.

6. Jack Murphy (Fly-Half) - He put in 5 tackles, broke the line and scored a try. A decent cameo from him.

7. Wilhelm de Klerk (Midfielder) - He put in 15 tackles, got a turnover and carried 20m. A solid game from him.

8. Zac Ward (Wing) - He put in 5 tackles, got 4 turnovers, carried an impressive 145m, broke the line twice, got the better of 3 defenders each time and scored a brace and got MOTM. A great game from him.

9. Michael Lowry (Fullback) - He carried an impressive 100m, broke the line twice and got past 2 defenders each time with also getting an assist each time. A good game from him.

Connacht

1. Cian Prendergast (Back Row) - He put in 15 tackles, stole a line-out, got a turnover whilst being everywhere in defence that even at times if he wasn't the player that won the ball it felt like he was and carried 25m. An outstanding game from him.

2. Shamus Hurley-Langton (Back Row) - He put in 25 tackles (1 dominant), carried 30m, broke the line, got the better of 2 defenders and got a brace. Another great game from him and some form since return from injury with 7 tries in 7 games.

3. Séan Jansen (Back Row) - He put in 10 tackles (1 dominant), carried 45m and got the better of 2 defenders. A decent game from him.

4. Matthew Devine (Scrum-Half) - He put in 5 tackles, got a turnover, carried 35m, broke the line after showing good IQ to get a foot to a loose ball and then some wheels to collect the ball to score. A good cameo from him.

5. Ben Murphy (Scrum-Half) - He put in 5 tackles, carried 25m, broke the line and got past 2 defenders with decent ruck speed and box kicks and reactions. A solid game from him.

6. Séan Naughton (Utility Back) - He got a turnover, carried 25m and broke the line twice. A solid game from him.

7. Harry West (Utility Back) - He carried 25m, broke the line and got an assist. A decent showing before he picked up his unfortunate injury.

8. Shane Jennings (Wing) - He put in 5 tackles (1 dominant), got a turnover, carried 20m and broke the line. A solid game from him.

9. Shayne Bolton (Wing) - He put in 5 tackles, carried 85m, broke the line and got past 2 defenders. A good game from him.

Leinster

1. James Culhane (Back Row) - He put in 10 tackles, carried 25m, broke the line and got an assist. A decent game from him.

2. Ciarán Frawley (Utility Back) - He stole a line-out, got a turnover, carried 30m and converted 5 tries. A decent cameo from him.

3. Jimmy O'Brien (Back 3) - He put in 5 tackles (1 dominant), carried an impressive 150m, broke the line and got past 2 defenders and got an assist and a try. A good game from him.

Munster

1. Thomas Ahern (Hybrid Forward) - He put in 5 tackles stole a line-out and helped secure the Munster one and got a try. A good game from him.

2. Evan O'Connell (2nd Row) - He put in 10 tackles (1 dominant), got 2 turnovers, was calling the line-out and got success, carried 5m and got the better of 2 defenders to get his try. A great game from him.

3. Alex Kendellan (Back Row) - put in 5 tackles, got a turnover and carried 10m. A solid cameo from him.

4. John Hodnett (Back Row) - He put in 5 tackles, got a turnover, carried 35m, broke the line and got past 2 defenders. A decent game from him.

5. Brian Gleeson (Back Row) - He put in 5 tackles, carried 60m and got the better of 4 defenders. A decent game from him.

6. Craig Casey (Scrum-Half) - He got a turnover, carried 20m, broke the line and got a try with having good ruck speed and decent box kicks and deservingly got MOTM. A good game from him.

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With the majority of the season completed, I thought it would be an interesting exercise to see who fans of each province felt really stood out this season and deserve some accolades. For instance, who was your Young Player of the season (23 or under), Player of the Season, Breakout Performer, Unsung Hero and One to Watch for next season. Feel free to shout out players from rival provinces too!

As a Munster fan, it has been an interesting season to say the least with a great start followed by inconsistency and frankly a lack fight shown in some games so some of these categories were tougher to fill than previous years. My awards are as follows:

My Munster Young Player of the Season: Brian Gleeson- the 22 year old has racked up 15 appearances, scoring 4 tries this season. Very dynamic in the loose, he has often been unleashed off the bench but perhaps his best performances have come when he has started. A injury against Leinster had curtailed his form somewhat but he has almost certainly been our best ball carrier this season with standout performances against Leonster, Scarlets, Glasgow and the Lions. Hopefully, even moee to come from him.

My Munster Player of the Season: Jack Crowley- Honestly, a pretty easy choice even with the usual tadgh Beirne heroics in some games. We just look more dangerous with him playing and despite being guilty of taking too much on at times when the pack is getting beaten up, he plays with such drive, passion and skill that can inspire both fans and teammates alike.

My Breakout Performer: Jack O'Donoghue. Honestly the hardest pick to make, Mcmillan has tended to consistently select more established names in his squads and with Munster's struggles oftentimes players have lacked consistency in performance. My controversial pick is JOD, I do not think i was alone in thinking his time at Munster was numbered going in to the season after feeling like a bit part player the year before. However, this season he felt like a man reborn. High work rate coupled eith on field leadership and physicality, it felt like a bit of a renaissance for the man, consistently outperforming many of his peers. An honourable mention to Ben O'Connor and both edogbos

for this category.

My Unsung Hero: Tom Ahern- A toss up between him and Nank, I just felt that Nank has gotten more plaudits this season. An ever present in the side when fit, the giant figure of Ahern is often responsible for a lineout that has improved from last season. He brings plenty of pace and power in the loose as well being a nuisance for opposition in lineout and maul D to particular effect this season. The pack has struggled massively this season but you cannot doubt the work rate and tenacity of Ahern.

My One to Watch for next season. Evan O'Connell- Limited to only 4 senior appearances this season, he has looked lively despite his limited minutes. Perhaps not fully filled out physically yet at 22, he has still held his own against the packs of both Glasgow and the Lions and looks like a potential future leader on the pitch. With Kleyn leaving, he should injury permitting rack up more minutes and hopefully gain the trust of the coaching staff.

What do people think are the best and worst Irish rugby podcasts or the best and worst presenters? Or maybe some podcasts have good and bad in them, for example I quite like Bernard Jackman on the RTE one but Neil Tracey isnt great

Leinster v Lions - Aviva

Glasgow v Connacht - Scotstown

Bulls v Munster - Loftus

Stormers v Cardiff - Cape Town

Hadn’t been following, what knock has he got?

>! IRE 54 - SCO 5 !<

Attendance: 31,294

POTM: >! Aoife Wafer !<

one of the most exciting prospects we have right now. Shame he doesn’t start more games.

If this form continues and the two current non-starters get a chance to show what they are made of in the next 6N

I hope this is OK to post here. Unfortunately I won’t be able to make it to Bilbao for the Champions Cup final as I’ve been quite ill, so I’m looking to sell my flights to another supporter who might otherwise miss out on the trip.

Flights can be sold together or separately:

✈️ Dublin → Bilbao — Tuesday 19 May

✈️ Bilbao → Dublin — Wednesday 27 May

Looking for €400 plus the airline name change fee.

Would genuinely love if these helped another fan make the trip and enjoy what should be a special occasion. Comment if interested.