r/islam_ahmadiyya

5 Core Beliefs of the Ahmadiyya Community

5 Core Beliefs of the Ahmadiyya Community

Yesterday, u/IqtisadMind posted this video on the r/AhmadiMuslims sub: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnTANi6_6WU

However, shortly after my response to it, not only did he delete his post but he also deleted his account.

For those who might benefit from my response to the video, I am reproducing my response here - I hope it is helpful:

"(1) The narrator states that Ahmadis believe in the Quran, but then also says that 'Khatam-an-Nabiyeen" means Muhammad was the "last law-bearing prophet". Unfortunately, the Quran does not say that -- the Quran makes no distinction between the prophets on the basis of law-bearing vs non-law-bearing, it says what was revealed to Muhammad was revealed to ALL prophets before him and he brought nothing new, and thrice refers to Islam as "the religion of Abraham". This concept of law-bearing vs non-law-bearing prophets is a concept completely invented by Sufis with no basis in the Quran or Ahadith, and for the purpose of describing the Sufi concept of post-Muhammad 'non-law-bearing prophethood' to be waliyat (sainthood, providential intimacy) and thus not actual prophethood (so as not to break Muhammad's 'seal').

(2) The narrator states that Ahmadis also believe in the Messiah and Mahdi. However, unlike as described in the Ahadith and as per the mainstream Sunni view, MGA denied that they are two separate people and declared all the Ahadith (except one) to be fabricared. MGA said:

"My claim is not that I am the Mahdi who conforms to فاطمۃ ولد من] the progeny of Fatimah], عترتی من] from my progeny], etc. Rather, my claim is that of being the Promised Messiah, and regarding the Promised Messiah, there is no statement of any muhaddith [scholar of hadith] that he would be from among the progeny of Fatimah etc. Nevertheless, at the same time—as every muhaddith says—I also say that all the ahadith regarding the Promised Mahdi are moot and suspect and not one of them is authentic. The degree to which fabrication has taken place in these ahadith has not taken place in any other hadith. During the time of the Abbasid Khulafa’ etc. the Khulafa’ were very fond of pronouncing themselves the Promised Mahdi. So for this reason, some ahadith describe the Mahdi as being from the progeny of ‘Abbas and some from the progeny of Fatimah. There are some ahadith which also say that تی ّ م ُ ا من رجل’ He will be a man from my Ummah.’ But essentially all of these ahadith are not worthy of any trust. This is not just my word; all eminent scholars of the Ahl-e-Sunnah have been saying the very same. As opposed to these ahadith, this hadith recorded by Ibn-e-Majah is very authentic: ی ّٰ عیسال مھدی ال meaning, there is no other Mahdi; ‘Isa is the very same Mahdi who is to come." In Barahin-e-Ahmadiyya (Part 5)(1908), on page 478 https://files.alislam.cloud/pdf/Barahin-e-Ahmadiyya-Part-5.pdf

Despite MGA's statement above regarding the Ibn-e-Majah hadith, classical scholars like Imam al-Qurtubi, Ibn al-Qayyim, and Al-Dhahabi all pointed out a weakness in the chain of transmission and thus consider it weak (da'if) or denounced/unreliable (munkar). Clearly, MGA needed to cancel out all the Ahadith that didn't suit him so he could be both the Messiah and the Mahdi in one. However, as supported by the Ahadith, the consensus mainstream Sunni view remains that they are references to two separate people.

(3) The narrator states that the Prophet gave the Messiah and Mahdi "the status of a prophet" -- leaving aside that all the Ahadith show them to be two separate people, as already shown to OP before and as mentioned above, MGA himself never gave himself "the status of a prophet". MGA described himself as a 'zilli', 'buruz' and 'non-law-bearing' nabi, all of which are terms not only not found anywhere in the Quran or Ahadith but were completely invented by Sufis (like Abdul Qadir Jilani and Ibn 'Arabi) to describe their concept of wilayat (sainthood, providential intimacy). Indeed, in referring to Jesus' second coming as the Messiah, Ibn' Arabi specifically said that Jesus would be a wali, and not a nabi.

(4) The narrator refers to the Ahmadi concept of Khilafat which has zero basis in the Quran, what we have of recorded Islamic history or even from MGA himself. In the Quran, the word "khalifa" occurs twice with reference to Adam and David (who were prophets) specifically, and the word "khulafa" occurs 11 times, and each time, it refers to a people/community/nation and not to a particular person, let alone one succeeding a prophet. The verse that the Qadian Jamaat (as evidenced at the top of this very subreddit) repeatedly cites as its support for its Khilafat is a blatant misrepresentation of and lie against that Quranic verse.

As for the ascendancy of each of the first 4 so-called khulafa of Islam, not once was 'divine-appointment' invoked or even apparently involved - (a) Abu Bakr ascended with reference to the prestige of the Quraish only - no reference to divine guidance, (b) Umar ascended because Abu Bakr named him, much to the chagrine of others, and because he "knew him better than others" -- no reference to divine guidance, (c) Uthman ascended due to a board of 6 people appointed by Umar (after much cajoling) to decide amongst themselves, and after 4 dropped out, the 4th named Uthman on the basis that Ali wanted it more - no reference to divine guidance, and (d) Ali ascended after the murder of Uthman, and only after he and two others refused, and also only after Medina was subject to a 24-hour death ultimatum by Uthman's murderers - again, no reference to divine guidance. Indeed, I also discovered that the first 4 khulafa were not even called 'khulafa', but "Amirul Momineen', with the first usage of the word 'khalifa' for the office being invoked by Abdul Malik Marwan (who sought to fashion himself a 'Khalifatullah' in the style of David, and not as a successor to Muhammad) and then retroactively applied to his predecessors.

As for MGA, in his 'Al-Wasiyyat', with reference to himself as Khalifatullah, he actually named the Anjuman as his Khalifa, and that his reference to 'Qudrat Saniyya' was not actually a reference to a person or an instituton, but rather, to a feeling of security and comfort that descends divinely."

u/redsulphur1229 — 6 days ago

Ahmadi weddings and the double standards around pardah

Can we please talk about the double standards when it comes to pardah at weddings? Even though they are supposed to be so Islamic - no music, no dancing, gender segregation.

I agree, that part is Islamic, but there's a catch.

The part when the men's side comes over to the women's side.

(Only relatives of course, whether it's your brother, cousin or your 10th-degree uncle)

They say it's only relatives, but the women are there full face of makeup, no hijab, hair fully styled...

Some put a dupatta over their head (mostly office holders, especially those you know on a national level) but as soon as you take pictures on the stage, they take it off and everyone is staring at them.

On one hand you get shamed if you don't wear hijab outside, but at weddings or Jalsa everything is different. No pardah at all…

The few who still wear it there, wear it from the heart, which is good.

But for everyone else it's seen as freedom to take it off, which just shows me again: most don't want to wear it and yet too many are forced to - including me back then.

And honestly, what I never understood is how loose Ahmadis are with pardah when it comes to non-mahrams. Cousins are not mahram, not even distant cousins or your uncle's brother-in-law's son. In Islam they are clearly non-mahram, but in the Ahmadiyya community it's just normalized. No pardah in front of them, hugging, mixing, full glam in front of them, and no one says anything.

If pardah is so important that you get judged for not wearing it outside, why does the principle suddenly not count when it's your cousin? That‘s something I never understood…

reddit.com
u/Flashy_Wallaby2271 — 6 days ago

An ahmadi stalker

A male ahmadi is stalking a female ahmadi. Been a decade since she said no to his intentions to marry, she said they should remain friends. He got hurt, started stalking her after that. The friendship they had prior to this broke. She broke all contact with him. She also filed a case against him with the police.

Over the years he kept trying to reach out. It stopped for a while. But it never fully stopped. This person is finding new ways to get in touch.

Question is what to do ? Or not to do? Should one contact the leader of his jamaat?

This is annoying for the girl to deal with.

reddit.com
u/Glad_Necessary_3212 — 8 days ago

Population of ahmadis In Pakistan?

Pakistan’s official 2023 census counts 162,684 Ahmadis, but independent organizations and community leaders estimate that the actual population is somewhere between 400,000 and 4 million.

So, what is the actual Ahmadi population? The official figure is obviously likely to be an undercount, especially since many Ahmadis reportedly boycott the census or may not disclose their religious identity.

What do you think the true population is?

reddit.com
u/Vegetable-Tear-4506 — 14 days ago

Benefits of Western-Born Murrabi’s

Quickly want to talk about one positive thing I’ve noticed at least in my local chapter.

For a few years, when the US Jamaat started assigning a Murrabi for every chapter, we got pretty lucky.

He was young, probably like 30-35. Born and raised on the east coast of America.

Really chill guy. Honestly most of the time he didn’t want to talk about religion, at least us younger people. He’d really just try to show interest in our interests and organize group activities.

And there were a few times were we had a deep conversation about theological topics, and I felt like I could be unfiltered the way I would if I was talking to a white friend.

Was able to basically lay-out my doubts very clearly, and he even agreed with the cultural problems the Jamaat has, how it’s too desi, etc.

He even actually randomly told me that he knows about this sub, like I didn’t even bring it up. And he has such a chill attitude about this sub, basically just saw it as another internet forum where people debate a hot topic.

Unfortunately he got re-located to Seattle because apparently their Jamaat has grown a lot recently. Our new Murrabi is chill but older and desi.

IMAGINE if most Murrabi’s were like that one though. A lot of the toxic aspects of Jamaat culture would go away pretty quickly. People might be sad if you leave Ahmadiyya but there would be no pitchforks and you’d always be welcome back.

reddit.com
u/Mara_-_- — 14 days ago