r/sollanempire

First and foremost, let me start by saying I do very much enjoy the story, ever more as I progress along the books (currently in the middle of Disquiet Gods). What has been bugging me however, and made me do this post, is the feeling in the back of my head that I am reading (to a certain extent) a huge mix of fan fiction. Let me summarise what I though of this far:

- The whole setting of the story obviously resembles Dune (which in itself is of course inspired by Foundation) - the post-AI war empire, the scholiasts= mentats, the body shielding, the prohibition of thinking machines etc. That one is quite obvious and no surprise to anyone here. But it also reminds me of Warhammer 40k, with a God-Emperor ruling over a medieval galaxy-spanning Empire of Mankind, down to its Chantry / Inquisition.

- Lightsabers like from Star Wars

- Cyberpunk-ish Tavrosi (every time Valka would disrupt some video feed or hack someone else's implants I am reminded of doing the same in Cyberpunk 2077)

- Lovecraftian ancient beings

- Dharan-Tun sounds to me like Barad-Dûr, and it is also essentially a dark fortress with rivers of molten lava, torture chambers, monsters etc, and its Dark Lord in this case is Syriani Dorayaica

So in a nutshell, every few minutes when reading Sun Eater I am thinking man, this reminds me of this or that - and it is a feeling that I never had to the same extent when reading other books. E.g. Red Rising, ok the first book is like Hunger Games but after that it really becomes its own very unique thing. Malazan, First Law, Hyperion, Game of Thrones etc etc never gave me that same feeling like I am reading a compiled mixture of other fiction. Does anyone feel the same?

P.S: Obviously, there is also a lot of originality, for example the Cielcin and their world-ships, the approach around the interactions with high-dimensional beings, the different fractions of humanity outside of the Imperium. As mentioned, I do enjoy the books - but wanted to share my thoughts as this has been on my mind for a while.

Cheers.

I blew through this series. Must’ve taken me around 2 months to read all 7 I think?

Did not like this ending. I kinda see where CR was going, and consider this only my perspective.

This series is up there for me. I haven’t read many fantasy/sci fi series. Yet completing this one has left no need for me to reach further. I could read nothing new and be content that I’ve read my fill (Kingkiller chronicles and hierarchy series contributing to that).

But I can’t shake Hadrian’s selfishness in the end. To me it feels he gave up because his entire existence was for the purpose of that mission and he was nothing more than a tool. But he’s a human with choice. He talks of many futures, rejects the premise of “fate” in the sense that mankind has no choice.

Yet he takes the choice from every one of his followers in the end. He stops fighting because that’s not what he was meant for, where did that leave Selene? He leaves Cassandra when she would rather die by his side than leave him. And I can’t imagine she’d forgive Edouard when she finds out he kept this from her.

He made choices for them against their wishes all because he has done what he existed to do? I thought people were more than that

I would have preferred an ending that saw to it his and everyone else’s choice to make a better future. So that even in their failure, they’d fail free.

Life ain’t sunshine and rainbows I guess. What a ride

The main thing I had an issue with with this series, was the monotony of the motivations of all the main characters: Hadrian's so desperate for a father figure that the second the Quiet gave him the slightest bit of affection, he turned from an individual character into the Quiet's hand puppet; the Watchers seem to be eldritch teenagers, rebelling against a distant father (who apparently doesn't even talk to them at all); William is desperately trying to live up to the image of the God Emperor; Alexander, rebuffed by his father, goes against him; Dorayaica, as the dark reflection of Hadrian, fills the so-to-say "good son" archetype for the Watchers (more of a stretch, but I'll include it anyway), and in the end, the character motivations seem a bit too shallow for my tastes. Am I just misreading the series, or is there more to it?<!

I noticed a handful of direct quotes from other fantasy series. I don’t know if they were intentional by the author. Both of the below are spoken by Hadrian.

“You will try” - Anakin Skywalker
“They’ll be back, and in greater numbers” - Ben Kenobi

What are some of your favorites from this series?

For some context, I was raised in a fairly conservative Christian home: went to church/youth group every week, learned Christian apologetics and how to “defend” the “worldview,” went to a Christian college, etc. I’ve read and studied pretty much every part of the Bible to some degree (I wouldn’t describe myself as a “biblical scholar” though). As an adult, I’ve moved away from the organized faith because of the rampant hypocrisy and corruption in the church and I question a lot of what I was raised on.

When I see people talk about the religious themes of this series (particularly the later books) people fall into two camps: (1) the people who think it’s way over the top; and (2) the people who weren’t bothered by it. I’m wondering if the people who are irritated with what appears to be a defense of Christianity/catholicism are like me — people who were raised in the church who have since “deconstructed.” I’ll admit it’s a bit of a sore spot for me personally and raises my hackles a bit.

On the other hand, if you weren’t raised in the church it’s maybe not as big of a deal? Or maybe some of the references are lost? For example, I’ve talked to a couple of people who didn’t know that “where were you when I created the foundations of the earth”
was from the book of Job. Chapter 40 in DG feels like an apologetics lesson.

This is purely coming from a place of curiosity on my end. If you were bothered by the overt religious themes in the series, I’d be curious to know your background and what makes you feel that way?

Just wrapped up book 4. I have had a number of things spoiled for this series just by being an idiot, but man that hit some lows. I was not expecting our whole freaking red legion to die, just to have a glimmer of hope and a chance at rescue, just for everyone to die anyways.

And then, we get back to Colchis just for more death. This time with a little more gut wrenching added for good measure. Definitely wet my eyes a bit in the back half.

But oh my god the commonwealth was a snoozer for certain parts, and it felt too 1984 and the foresight of the capture + the dramatis personae telling you that one of the chairs is MINOS took away a lot of the oomph. Still enjoyed that section and the commonwealth is pretty interesting regardless.

The world building on the world ship + akterumu was awesome. Those gods and shit are no joke. And then Hadrian pulling a high matter blade from his ass and half dueling Syriani was dope as hell.

Overall a great book. Is 5-7 as enjoyable as the series has been thus far?

I keep seeing the photos and videos of the different variant editions for Sun Eater. I’m talking about broken binding, the highmatter editions for EoS+HD, etc.
I can’t seem to rlly track down how to purchase these, and can’t even tell if any of them are for sale anymore. Can someone point me in right direction for a scooby snack?

Reading Tales of the Sun Eater and there is a story of a Chantry Praetor and she mentioned how the Chera has the face of a woman and the body of a man. That reminded of when Hadrian was on March Station and was appalled that people there changed their gender. I might misremember, was it just the way the people do it there? Homosexuality is tolerated, we saw that, but we haven’t seen a single transgender person

(SPOILERS AHEAD) He was built up over hundreds and hundreds of pages and well written as a frighteningly intelligent alien life form and there was a massive build up to his becoming a watcher (some form of it as a vessel for miuadanar) then he gets killed by getting knocked out by his slave who we met 5 pages ago? And aside from some brief “KINSMEN” dialogue we basically never see him again and the watchers are destroyed

I really like the flashback to “little yama” that was great but aside from that very disappointed

Hey Marlowe, if not knowing anything about praxis is such a massive hindrance and problem maybe use a bit of the literal centuries that you've sat around or travelled through space to learn a bit? I'm sure Jadd has a community college or two you could pick up a few courses at. Maybe spend all that time you gained from not sleeping to fill in some knowledge gaps that you are totally aware of and already understand how much of a problem it is that they exist?

Halfway through the last book, and man, if Marlowe put a hundredth of the effort he puts into learning old, useless quotes into learning how a goddamn circuit works, maybe a couple billion fewer people would need to die.

Dude Pallino did the bravest thing I’ve ever seen. What a book RIP all my friends.

I really disliked the first book but pushed through and I’m just so happy I did.

I don’t know if it just a reading slog but I feel Shadows upon time takes quite a while to start, and revisiting of what has happened. Gives Disquiet Gods vibe. How does the pace feel when you started. I am 20% in and I am still struggling.

You know I always enjoyed reading about the mercanni with AI being so prevalent in our lifes, but this is just a creepy coincidence to me lol. TLDW - they made a computer run on human cells...

Hadrian keeps going on and on about how nobly Radhassa bore the iniquity of her chains (specifically brought her up in reference to William) but you’re never really shown why that is it’s just a telling thing

Doesn’t matter much just a thought

I recall reading somewhere that Christopher Ruocchio was raised Catholic, grew up to be agnostic, and then eventually found his way back to Catholicism.

If I had to guess, I’d say he found his way back to Catholicism right before beginning to write this book.

Up until this point, we had a Hadrian who — while still believing that the Cielcin cannot be reasoned with and must be destroyed — at least felt regretful and tortured about it. Now, we have a Hadrian who has seen the light (yuck) and is now fully committed to his future genocidal act (yuck) because he was visited by an angel (yuck) who told him that it’s part of God’s plan (yuck).

Of course, the parallels to Biblical stories and direct Bible quotes were always present, but prior to this book they were dealt with in a more nuanced way, with the narrative making it clear that, despite his parallels to Jesus, Hadrian was flawed and in some ways evil himself. This nuance disappears after the Ragama chapter. It almost feels as if Ruocchio wasn’t initially intending to transform Hadrian’s mindset in this way, but then changed his plot outline suddenly.

To clarify: my main issue does not lie in the reveal that The Quiet is all powerful and will come into being whether Hadrian succeeds or not (despite it being a bad writing choice that makes everything feel meaningless and narratively unearned, I was initially willing to ignore it in order to protect my enjoyment of the series). Rather, I take issue with the change in Hadrian’s attitude after this reveal as it implies a new guiding philosophy of the narrative that makes me sick to my stomach: that some cultures are inherently evil due to communing with the Devil, and that committing genocide is actually okay as long as God says it’s okay.

This is a familiar philosophy that has led to untold amounts of suffering in the real world, and it is not a philosophy I am interested in having preached at me in my leisure time.

I am not opposed to Christian themes in media (if I was, I wouldn’t be able to read much of anything at all as they’re steeped too deeply into our culture to be avoided). I *am,* however, opposed to Christian themes being bent in such a way as to perpetuate the same racist (see footnote), colonialist behaviors that have held humanity back for centuries. Unfortunately, the types of Christians who can distinguish between the two are typically not the type to be writing a 7 book space opera Bible allegory.

There’s so many other weird conservative and conservative-adjacent bits in these books that I could go into whole essays about (like the clumsy and derivative metaphor for communism displayed in the Lothrians, or how Hadrian’s disapproval of the Extrasolarians is often phrased in ways that are eerily similar to common arguments against gender-affirming healthcare, or the usage of the classic trope where the wife who doesn’t want children magically changes her mind right before dying, or perhaps Hadrian flat out mocking the notion of political power coming from the people via a social contract, to name a few), but it’s 3AM and this is already a long enough block of text.

I guess what I’m realizing after finishing this book is that I should’ve seen all of this coming. I wanted to believe that Ruocchio was intentionally writing Hadrian as a wicked man and not that he actually believed these things himself, but I was blind to obvious red flags. The unironic glazing of Jordan Peterson in Book 2 was a clear sign, but I gave it pass and brushed it off as “eh, Ruocchio was, like, 22 when he was writing that book. I believed some dumb stuff when I was 22, too.” But I was wrong, and the hints that Ruocchio held these views were there from the start.

I was so naive to think that it wouldn’t turn out this way.

This must be.

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Footnote:

I debated whether or not to keep the word “racist” in this review because I’m posting this review to both my Goodreads and Reddit accounts and I didn’t want to be accused of “reaching” given that, in my experience, some of the people on sci-fi subreddits tend to be… uh… racist.. However, I ultimately decided to leave it in given that certain moments in the book that make it clearly not a reach at all:

1. When The Quiet/God revives Hadrian, he not only makes him younger but also gives him a eugenics makeover. Direct quote: “Where before mine had been a long and pointed face, sharp of nose and chin, the face that peered out at me was one perfectly balanced, with a slim, straight nose, strong brow, and pronounced cheekbones… Any of the great sculptors of the Imperial court—acting in the grand classical tradition—might have produced such a face, so precise was its symmetry, so ideal its ratios.” This reminds me of the weird guys on twitter with classical Greek statues as their profile pictures and “Defend Western Civilization” written in their bios. I can’t stop imagining Born Again Hadrian as looking like Clavicular.
2. Hadrian theorizes that any religion with more than one god, the use of altars, and any form of sacrifice (even of inanimate objects) must be demonic because that faith would not have developed those traits without proximity to the Devil. It misrepresents a subjective idea of what evil looks like as an objective truth. It’s the same argument of heresy and devilry that Christian colonizers used to place themselves above the “savages.”

Edit: formatting

Just spent the last 2 days reading book 1 and I'm a bit confused because I expected it to be kinda "meh" from what I've heard from people on the internet but this book is so much fun, I'm curious, what made you feel like it's not that good if you felt that way about it at first?

in reference to empire of silence, is it assumed that the The Quiet destroyed Hadrian's ship forcing it go to Emesh?