▲ 28 r/mileven

Mileven and Enola Holmes 3

Having watched *Enola Holmes 3* (as charming as it is inconsequential—much like the previous two), I’ve reached a conclusion: Millie Bobby Brown (a co-producer, let’s not forget) has framed this film as a sort of do-over for the fifth season of *Stranger Things*, giving her character the ending she would have wanted for Eleven. There are many clues pointing this way, but one seems indisputable: during the end credits, just before the montage of Enola and Tewkesbury’s honeymoon wraps up, what do we see? Enola and her new husband posing for a photo in front of a waterfall, right next to an engraving depicting THREE waterfalls! There is also the fact that the promotion has focused almost exclusively on her and Louis Partridge, and on the romantic moments between their characters (which, incidentally, are strikingly scarce—and quite chaste, too, though that is a topic for another discussion). Or the fact that a brief behind-the-scenes video leaked showing her saying "good ending"—seemingly contrasting it with the one her character received in ST5. I wonder if Millie used the filming of this movie as therapy for an ending that upset her so deeply—bear in mind that the three-waterfalls scene was shot after *EH3*—that, more than a year and a half later, she still has to look away when it’s screened and visibly struggles to keep from bursting into tears.

I used to be pessimistic about a future "Mileven" spin-off. Now I’m cautiously optimistic, because I think Millie would be open to something like that—but, mind you, she wouldn't just accept anything. She would want her voice to be heard, and it’s possible that no agreement would be reached on the creative direction, causing the project to be shelved (as has happened many times before).

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u/AdBackground6381 — 3 days ago
▲ 115 r/ATLAtv

Why so much hatred?

The level of vitriol being spewed at this adaptation is reaching incredible heights. To hear people tell it, this second season is a nauseating, unwatchable disaster. What’s more, a lot of the criticism is nonsense—like the claim that "This Ozai actually cares about his family!" (Spoiler: he doesn't; this Ozai couldn't care less about his family—he views them merely as pieces in his game of chess). Many people are letting nostalgia get the better of them and are forgetting that the original series had some very weak narrative elements (for instance, the whole guru storyline, which has quite rightly been left out here). My take is that this adaptation isn't bad and has some significant narrative strengths (for instance, Azula's backstory—while she was cool in the original series' second season, she wasn't a particularly interesting character), and much of what was cut wasn't all that important anyway. A separate issue—and this *is* a problem—is whether the existence of this live-action version is actually justified.

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u/AdBackground6381 — 4 days ago

Full suits of armor in "The Odyssey"

One complaint I've heard about the trailers is that they show the Laestrygonians wearing anachronistic full armor. My question is, why is that a problem here, yet no one complains that in "Excalibur" the characters also wore full armor, even though it wouldn't appear until many centuries later? The parallel isn't forced, since Arthurian legends also have a small historical basis, as does the Trojan War, upon which the fantasy is built.

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u/AdBackground6381 — 18 days ago
▲ 6 r/mileven+1 crossposts

Season 4 transformed Mike and Eleven into Jean Grey and Cyclops and S5 almost forgotten that idea except in their farewell

In talking about season 4, the Duffers lied to us about their influences. They talked about 80s horror but intentionally omitted what was their main reference point, especially in Eleven's story. I'm referring to the X-Men, and specifically the Dark Phoenix saga. The parallels are too obvious. Brenner is Mister Sinister with a touch of Charles Xavier. Vecna ​​is Mastermind. Eleven is Jean Grey. Mike is Cyclops. The relationship between Vecna ​​and Eleven is a clear parallel to the relationship between Charles Xavier and Magneto. And if we look at the plot of the Dark Phoenix saga, it's clear where the fifth season was headed. Eleven's power comes indirectly from the Mind Flayer through Henry's blood, just as Jean Grey's power comes from the cosmic Phoenix Force. The core idea of ​​the Dark Phoenix saga is that this immense power slowly corrupts Jean, fueled by Mastermind's seduction. Clearly, this was the initial concept for the fifth season: that Vecna ​​would seduce Eleven in such a way that her inmense power would corrupt her from within.

Continuing with the parallels, it's very likely that in this process, Eleven would attack Mike, but that this very attack would bring her back to her senses (as happens to Jean Grey, who attacks Cyclops). And the outcome was obvious: Eleven would sacrifice herself to destroy the Upside Down, not because Dr. Kay wants her blood, but because her mere presence is a danger to everyone (as is Jean Grey's), and as long as the Upside Down exists, there will be no peace for anyone. Obviously, there would be a tearful farewell between her and Mike (like the one between Jean and Cyclops) in which he would try to stop her, but fail.

In that sense, Mike's farewell to El we have now is very telling. It's almost a carbon copy of Jean and Cyclops's farewell, but on the other hand, it wasn't initially planned. What happened here? This scene was probably planned when season 5 was first conceived, with the idea of ​​basing it on the Dark Phoenix saga. Then it was discarded, and since they couldn't find an ending they liked, they went back to their original idea, but in the process, they lost all the context that gave it meaning.

Further evidence: Mike's account of Eleven's fate, which is obviously inspired by Jean Grey's ending, but doesn't correspond at all to what actually happened (Eleven doesn't disappear in the burst of light but later on, and her disappearance doesn't take the military with her). They probably wrote it thinking of their initial idea of ​​Jean Grey = Eleven and Cyclops = Mike and then forgot to change it. In the initial script, when Mike talks about the disappearance of the Mage, it was supposed to show Eleven disappearing, but in the finished scene, we see Eleven calling Mike into the Void. Clearly, this was a last-minute decision.

Further evidence lies in the fact that season 4 hints at (and season 5 was surely meant to develop it) a psychic connection between Mike and El (parallel to that between Jean and Cyclops) that hadn't even been suggested until then. Season 5 ultimately didn't dedicate much time to this, but a trace remains in the farewell scene, where we see Mike and El physically touch each other in the Void (possibly because this scene was initially the intended ending, then discarded, and then reinstated, but abandoning what should have been the development of this psychic connection).

And as a final point regarding the parallels, the way in which El's "death" is resolved is almost identical to how Jean's "death" is resolved. Namely, the El who seemingly disappeared with the Upside Down wasn't her but an illusion, while the Jean who sacrificed herself to save everyone wasn't her either but a clone.

Does it seem forced to you? Maybe, but let's not forget that the series does include specific references to the X-Men: in the first season Dustin mentions issue 134 of the comics (included precisely in the Dark Phoenix Saga), Cerebro in the third season, and the Hellfire Club in the fourth.

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u/AdBackground6381 — 1 month ago
▲ 21 r/mileven

Mileven and the script for "The Rightside Up"

In case you weren't aware, Netflix posted the script for the final episode of "Stranger Things" on its website for a few days. Although it's been taken down, many of us have read it. In this post, I'll reflect a bit on what it tells us about Mileven.

The first point to note is that this script isn't the definitive truth, because, to begin with, there are subtle but crucial differences with what we see on screen. This, and only this, is what matters. I'll come back to this later.

The second point is that in the scene where Hopper returns with the first-aid kit and sees Kali on the ground, seemingly dead, the script states that Kali is dead. Does that mean she is, and therefore Mike's theory is impossible? Not at all! Because in epigraph 170 it says that the scientist, beaten to death by the young Henry Creel, is dead and that even in death he is still clutching his briefcase. But in epigraph 174 the scientist is alive again, although agonizing.
The script simply tells us what the viewer should see on screen. It says nothing about whether it's true or not, or whether it will be recontextualized later. It's also a guide for the actors, not a window into the characters' inner lives.

The third point is that in the scenes where Mike tells the story of the Mage and we see Eleven talking to Kali and then Eleven running away, these scenes are labeled as "flashbacks," not "Mike's point of view" or "Mike's imagination." They are written as real scenes. Not only that, when Kali says, "My story had to end here, but yours doesn't have to," the script states that this moment is an exact continuation of what we saw before. It doesn't say that Mike is reconstructing the scene in his imagination or anything like that.

The fourth point is that in the scene with El and the waterfalls, the script labels it as a "flash forward," not as "Mike's imagination" or anything like that. It's written as a real scene.

And now let's look at the differences with what we see on screen.

  1. The script says that Akers' gun fires. On screen, this isn't clear, therefore, it's unclear whether Kali is actually shot or not.

  2. In the script, El tells Murray that Kali is dead. On screen, she doesn't say anything, she just looks at Hopper, and he's the one who says it.

  3. The script doesn't say whether Eleven is in the truck when it suddenly stops at the MACZ, nor does it explicitly say that she's among the people getting out. On screen, it's clear that she was there, and we do see her get off the truck. This forces us to wonder how she could have gotten to the Gate without the military stopping her like they do with Mike. In the original script, as I said, this wasn't so clear.

  4. Mike and El's farewell is quite different. In the script, they don't kiss, and the dialogue is somewhat different. The detail of Eleven emphasizing each word in the phrase "the real me," as if implying that she is real and the Eleven at the Gate isn't, isn't in the script; Millie added it herself. In the script, El never tells Mike "I'll always be with you."

  5. In the scene of Mike in the college dorm, nothing is said about him having a picture of El on his table, and the detail of the purple light reflecting on his glasses while the theme of "The First I Love You" plays is also missing.

  6. The most important detail is when Mike says that the Mage cast a Sunbeam spell and disappeared, but that wasn't possible because the Suppression Stones were activated. According to the script, what we should have seen then was El disappearing. But what the screen shows us is El calling Mike into the Void. The narrative message, then, is that it was impossible for Eleven to do that with the Kryptonite activated.

In short, what the script shows us, combined with the discrepancies between the script and what's finally shown on screen, clearly indicates that the Duffers wrote and filmed the episode implying that Mike's story is real. It's another matter entirely that in their interviews they muddle everything with their absurd insistence on an "ambiguous ending."

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u/AdBackground6381 — 1 month ago

Very unpopular opinion: Season 3 of ST has terrible writing

The more I think about it, the more stupid things I discover in the writing of the third season, and I realize that many of the problems of the fifth season were already present there, only the dazzling spectacle covered them up. I will point out some of the biggest stupidities.

1)The Russian base would have required a massive mobilization of resources. Despite the close surveillance between the United States and the Soviet Union during the Cold War, did no one notice anything amiss until some kids and teenagers happened to overhear a transmission and some magnets fell off a refrigerator?

2)Scientists at the base who don't speak English, which instantly gives them away as Russian agents, didn't anyone think about the possibility that they would be captured, as actually happens?

3)Armed Russian soldiers walking around in plain sight and speaking Russian to each other.

4)Russian internal transmissions without encryption, even though it is essential that they are not intercepted. And the NSA doesn't intercept them despite having highly sophisticated equipment, but a bunch of kids and teenagers with amateur radio equipment does?

5)Hopper discovers the secret facility beneath the farm, finds Russian agents, first in Hawkins city hall and then at the facility, and doesn't notify the federal government even though the presence of armed Russian agents undercover on American soil is an unequivocally hostile act. Instead, he takes Alexei to Murray on his own because he's the only person Hopper knows who speaks Russian. Didn't it occur to him that the federal government probably had Russian interpreters as well? This is a serious dereliction of duty. Hopper is a figure of authority as the local chief of police. If he locates Russian agents, and even more so if he suspects the mayor is a traitor negotiating with them, he has a grave duty to inform the federal government.

  1. When they go down to the base, who does Hopper take with him? He takes Joyce, who has no combat experience and is physically very small, so she wouldn't be of any use to him. Why doesn't he bring Steve, who is physically stronger and also knows the base and knows exactly where the Gate is and what it looks like?

7)Of the group—Joyce, Hopper, and Murray—who's hiding in the vent ducts to talk by radio with Dustin? Murray, although he's the only one who knows Russian and can therefore help them blend in. Wouldn't it make more sense for it to be Joyce, who, being smaller, would fit better in the vent ducts and would be of no use in a fight? Besides, Murray knows how to use weapons, and Joyce doesn't.

8)Two people are needed to activate the Key. Didn't Hopper consider that if one of them got locked, like he did, it wouldn't be possible to activate it? Shouldn't he have brought an extra backup to anticipate that possibility? He's a former soldier and an active police officer; he should have thought of that!

9)Joyce and Hopper speak to each other in English in a base full of Russians, thus showing that they have as much in common with Russian soldiers as I do with Imperial stormtroopers.

Perhaps the Duffers were aware that they had no more story to tell and that the character arcs were completely closed, and instead adopted a "let's turn our characters into characters from 80s movies" approach and forgot about the story to concentrate on filling everything with memeable and viral moments, however stupid and absurd they may be in themselves.

Besides the stupid writing, we should not overlook the blatant misogyny, which was rightly criticized in the fifth season, and which is evident here in the way the characters of Max (who comes across as incredibly annoying and stupid, not doing a single thing right the entire season), Nancy, Karen, Joyce and even El are treated. Or the racism (why didn't those who go around denouncing racism everywhere realize that Erica is a walking racist stereotype, the "sassy black girl"?).

I'm aware this isn't a popular stance. I accept that the third season has its good moments and is visually stunning. But that shouldn't blind us to the serious writing problems it has, which worsened in seasons 4 and especially 5.

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u/AdBackground6381 — 1 month ago

"The Odyssey" and "Troy"

Many on social media are comparing the two films, almost always favoring the second. I don't understand why. Or perhaps I do. "Troy" is an abomination against Homer and the rich Greek mythology, which it almost completely disregards. But it's not a valid historical film either. In that sense, it resembles the almost contemporary "King Arthur," starring Clive Owen, which replaces the legend with a pseudohistorical approach that greatly impoverishes the narrative and doesn't even serve as a recreation of a largely unknown true story. This approach is more false than the purely mythological one, because the mythological and legendary approach never pretends to be real history, while the pseudohistorical approach does so even knowing it isn't.

In other words, making Helen black is not an affront to Greek myths. Having Agamemnon killed by Briseis in Troy, rather than by his own wife upon returning home, is. Having the Laestrygonians wear medieval armor is not an affront to Greek myths, while having Hector kill Menelaus (who in "The Odyssey" returns safe and sound carrying Helen with him) is. It's not an affront to Greek myths for Agamemnon to wear armor like the one seen in the trailer for "The Odyssey." What is an affront is turning him into a pure villain without any redeeming qualities, as in "Troy" (in Homer's poem he's no saint, sure, but he's a more complex character).

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u/AdBackground6381 — 2 months ago

A personal proposal

Illustrate this sub with an image of Mileven from the animated series. For example, Eleven resting her head on Mike's shoulder when they are both sitting together on the stairs of Hopper's cabin.

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u/AdBackground6381 — 2 months ago
▲ 14 r/mileven

I had the following idea: We know that Nikki Baxter's family isn't in Hawkins anymore in season three. Let's assume they moved somewhere else by then. But on the other hand, they have reason to be very grateful to Eleven. What if Eleven, after fleeing the military, simply sought refuge in their house (it would have been easy for her to find out where they lived thanks to her powers)? If we also assume Anna and Nikki returned to their old life of constantly moving from place to place, that's the kind of life that suits a fugitive. Add to that the fact that Anna Baxter wouldn't have any problem homeschooling Eleven until she comes of age. What do you think?

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u/AdBackground6381 — 2 months ago

One criticism being leveled at this new series is that it's not canon or that it's incompatible with canon. My stance is: SCREW CANON. To begin with, although the situation in which the characters are left at the end of the series is certainly hardly compatible with season 3, on the other hand, this new series fits in much better with the first two seasons than season 3, which simply throws out the window all the character development from the first two seasons. I don't know what will happen in the future, or if there will be new seasons, but if anyone working on the show reads Reddit, I'd say him or her: ignore the canon and let your story run its natural course. It's not the first time something like this has been done. The funniest example I know is "The Real Ghostbusters," which justified the divergence by having the movie appear within the animated series and implying that they had taken a lot of liberties with what really happened. The characters, who in season 5 only caused me boredom and indifference (with the exception of Mike and El) are once again endearing to me.

I loved seeing El as an essential part of the group (and not isolated from the others as in the fifth season), seeing the group interacting again (something we lost in the third season), seeing everyone going out of their way to protect El (even Steve, who barely knows her), once again contrasting with the indifference they show towards her in the fifth season (except for Mike).
Will, whom I found unbearable in the previous three seasons, shines again. He's no longer the whiny, jealous crybaby of seasons 3, 4, and 5; he's back to being the brave kid who, despite being terrified, runs to grab his hunting rifle, loads it perfectly, and slings it over his shoulder, ready to unleash a blast of shot on the Demogorgon (had you forgotten that Will did that in the first season?). And above all, he is once again the loyal kid who in the second season is willing to die rather than allow the Mind Flayer to possess him completely and turn him into a mortal threat to his friends (because this is what closing the Gate would imply, Will dying). Eleven is once again shown not just as a walking superpower (because that's essentially what she was in season five) but as an independent and determined girl who has her own opinions and doesn't hesitate to make them clear to Mike (but, at the same time, she's willing to listen, and when Mike explains why he acted the way he did, she understands). And she doesn't just use her powers; she creatively uses her surroundings to her advantage when she fights. Hopper once again shows himself to be an understanding adoptive father who seeks El's well-being (see how he changes her curfew so she can play D&D) and does not treat her as a substitute for Sara. And so it goes with everyone.

In terms of writing quality, it far surpasses the fifth season (not that that was very difficult, admittedly). The story flows organically, plays well with anticipation and Chekov's guns, and doesn't constantly resort to tedious expository monologues that explain what's happening instead of showing it to us. As an example, notice how the conflict between Mike and El (which is essentially the same as between El and Hopper in season five) is resolved in two minutes instead of four episodes, without anything feeling forced or contrived. And above all, it's emotionally resonant. We connect with what we see on screen, something that doesn't happen in season five.

I really liked the animation. I would have preferred 2D animation, to give it a more 80s feel, but I have no problem with the chosen style, which doesn't try too hard to imitate the photorealistic Disney-Pixar style.

What is regrettable (and here I agree with the critics) is that, being aimed at a children's audience, it's not as good as it could be. Very enjoyable (I enjoyed it a lot) but ultimately nothing special. That said, it offers enough to get rid of the bad taste left in my mouth by the fifth season.

Regarding the shipping wars, I'll summarize quickly: lots of Mileven and very good, quite a bit of Lumax also quite good, no Jancy and a slight allusion to Stancy.

conclude: I encourage you to watch it and decide for yourselves whether you like it or not.

To

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u/AdBackground6381 — 2 months ago