u/Alarming_Channel2592

I’ve seen myself as asocial for the longest time, but I’m beginning to realize that I’ve probably just internalized how others describe me.

In other words, it’s not that I’m not interested in people…it’s more like I’m interested in the FULL richness of the world. Sometimes it’s people I’m focused on…but it could be a forest, animals, an idea, a historical pattern, etc. There’s so much to the world!

But I seem to have been surrounded by people who are almost SOLELY interested in people, to the exclusion of all else. When they turn their gaze upon the wider world, it’s always through this sort of “consensus” filter. What’s important is what most people see as important. What’s interesting is only what’s interesting in the world of people, and to the degree to which it relates to the world of people.

I don’t know why being genuinely interested in the world at large, with all its wonders, is framed as distractibility or having your head in the clouds. Isn’t it just the opposite? My feet are more firmly planted on the ground! I’m more engaged with reality, actual biophysical REALITY…instead of insisting on seeing everything within some sort of agreed-upon social reality (which itself IS interesting…but why the hell does it have to be everything?!?).

Case in point, at least some (but probably most) people will read this and think: “dreamer.” But I grow my own food. I tend to my chickens and ducks. I build with wood. Why am *I* the dreamer? Why do we allow others to redefine words like “reality” and “practical” so that they refer to what amounts to a NARROWER and more DETACHED experience? It’s terribly confusing to me.

Is anyone else out there feeling this same cognitive dissonance?

Thought experiment time.

We're all transported to a much larger planet tomorrow that is abundant with resources, such that it would be possible for all 8 billion of us to be self-sustaining on our own plots of land (if we so chose). For now, let's leave aside questions about how realistic that would be (children, the elderly, different levels of physical ability, etc.). I know that's hard. In your mind, create whatever conditions you need to in order to just accept this scenario (everyone is given an able body and a maturity level at which self-sufficiency is possible, basic shelters are already in place, etc...whatever you need to imagine this / suspend disbelief).

Some questions: 

Would you willingly join (or form) a large group in which hierarchy and authority became necessary for cohesion (due to sheer size and/or possible depletion of local resources)? What benefits would entice you enough to do so? Or what would be enough to keep you away?

Would you be willing to join or found a large hierarchical group if you were guaranteed a "top-tier" position? In other words, more resources than you have living on your own or in a smaller group, but at the expense of others in the group?

And if so, would it make a difference whether you had to directly enforce that hierarchy (with no physical danger to yourself, let's just say) as opposed to having others enforce it for you? (If that seems like an obviously leading question, consider the fact that most people already do one or the other, or both.)

Can you envision a level of hierarchy / authority that would cause you to leave a group, even if that meant a lower material standard of living? What does that look like? In other words, what are your limits for hierarchical structures? Taxes? Uneven resource distribution? Merely witnessing people with less?

How much negative social interaction are you willing to tolerate in a group before it outweighs the positive social interaction and material benefits you'd get there? Would you leave if 10% of your social interactions were negative? 20%? 50%? What's your threshold?

If you chose to live in a small group, roughly what size a group do you think would be a good fit? How do you picture the relationships there?

If you chose to live alone, what level of interaction do you think you'd like with nearby people and groups?

Feel free to add any questions or thoughts you have. Or feel free to disregard the hypothetical scenario altogether and info dump. If you think the question is ridiculous and that anyone who says they wouldn't participate in a hierarchy when there's a perceived personal benefit (autistic or otherwise) is a liar or delusional, say so. But please be a bit nicer than that.

(As you probably guessed, I'm interested in whether scaling up into large, dense, hierarchical groups is a universal human tendency (as it's often sold as), or if there's way more variation in individual human tolerances and preferences than is generally thought. Personally, I think there's much less consensus on this than we're led to believe (i.e. it's sort of assumed that, for most people, the benefits outweigh the cons).

Could it be that simply leaving the large, dense, hierarchical groups we now all find ourselves is no longer a viable possibility for most of us, and so we've come to internalize the narrative that this is some sort of human baseline way of life? And that any deviation from that narrative represents a deviation from what it means to be human? Airdrop us on this hypothetical planet or whatever, and I think you'd see a very different self-organization. I think that the type and level of sociality seen in certain autistic people is actually very adaptive for small-group life, that small-group life itself is highly adaptive (sustainable, at the very least), and that we often do ourselves a disservice by accepting the narrative that our social differences are purely the result of, say, a history of negative interactions with social hierarchies (in much the same way that differences in empathy are either demonized or attributed to trauma rather than perfectly adaptive configurations in their own right). 

But that's what *I* think. Interested in hearing everyone's thoughts.)

Ever since childhood, my most wished-for superpower has been the ability to stop time. I’m 47, and that wish hasn’t changed. The ability to pursue a hyperfocus to its natural endpoint. Freedom from being violently pulled out of a process and contracted back into ‘identity’ (someone else’s conception of me) and all that entails. Most importantly, maybe, the freedom to FIGURE THINGS OUT. And it’s occurred to me recently that this wish of mine isn’t to freeze time, necessarily, but to freeze people and those systems of theirs that I find myself in (to a child, these seem to be one and the same). No harm in dreaming, right?

Has anyone else experienced this wish persistently? If not, what ‘superpowers’ have you daydreamed about?

I feel certain of nothing, really. And this is true the older I get.

But when I speak, I do so with a persona of complete certainty…whether in person, in a place like Reddit, or even writing on my own, with no particular audience in mind (which I do a lot of).

Upon review of what I said or wrote, I’m mortified. It sounds arrogant, childish, manic.

I often feel it would be better if I didn’t express myself at all.

Does this resonate with anyone?

I almost always crave solitude and freedom. From people and their systems, from expectations and demands, from pretending, from the fear and anxiety I have of being perceived…from all of it.

However, given that solitude, my mental health makes a rapid decline. I just sort of dissolve. Maybe it’s the lack of boundaries and definition that the world of people gives…I’m not sure. I spend quite a bit of time thinking on this paradox.

I’m 47, autistic and ADHD, as was my father. This age was a real turning point for him, as well. He stopped working, moved into an apartment, and essentially remained there for the next 35 years, leaving only for the library or groceries.

I could go on with a book’s worth of thoughts (and I will, in the comments, I’m sure), but I’d first like to hear whether anyone here is having a similar experience. I know I have mental health issues. I don’t think my mental health issues are directly related to being ND, but rather a plethora of downstream effects of being the way I am in the world such as it is. Having said that, regardless of the causal chain, they ARE issues, they ARE mine, and I struggle with them.

I’m terrified of passing some point of no return. Because I find myself, like my father, extremely resistant to help…either from other people, OR in the sense of helping myself. I think I know best most of the time. I resist advice. I’ve yet to meet a clinician who explains my experience to a degree where I feel, “Yes. That is EXACTLY how it feels.” I tell myself if I did, I would unhesitatingly engage that person’s suggestions/advice. But it’s a moot point because I haven’t even come close to meeting a person like that.

I’ll stop this here and see what comes back.