u/Apprehensive_Try_501

With Toy Story 5 coming out soon, I wanted to talk about something that is rather divisive among Toy Story fans. Like many others, I was disappointed in Toy Story 4 when it first came out but it has grown on me the past few years. I still don't think it's perfect movie but it does its job. I have counterarguments to everyone's criticisms below. I know this has been talked to death and people already have their opinions set in stone but I would appreciate it if I could put my 2 cents in without getting berated. If you disagree, you can downvote and we can have a respectful conversation

Argument 1: Toy Story should have ended at 3.

Toy Story 1-3 was a trilogy in itself. The scene at the end of 3 where Andy gives the toys away represents his feelings toward them and conveniently it was similar to our feelings towards the characters which is why it was such an emotional end to the film. As audience members, this level of emotion felt right for a sendoff to the franchise. In our heads, we were thinking "Disney can't possible do better than this. What an Ending!" And we were right. Toy Story 4 is the worst in the franchise but still a great movie. The main reason movies 4+ exist are because there were still more stories to tell for certain characters. Woody's journey with Andy ended, but there were still important factors to address that were sprinkled throughout the original trilogy. Woody almost chose a museum over Andy. His biggest fear was that Andy wouldn't love him anymore. Stinky Pete and Jessie put those thoughts in his head but ultimately he returned to his roots with a commercial helping him see clearly. Between 2 and 3, Bo Peep is taken away. Woody, once again, almost leaves Andy. He was about to step into the giveaway box but Andy called for him before he could finalize his actions. His infatuation with Bo was almost enough to break his loyalty. You can noticeably see Woody sigh when Buzz mentions her departure at the beginning of 3. He remains loyal towards Andy in 3 but learns to let go. As Andy drove off, there was emptiness in Woody's face. You could tell then and there that his purpose had been fulfilled. Not following Andy to college hurt him badly. He only became Bonnie's toy because he didn't have enough time to get back into the college box before Andy came in. He was helping his friends like the good toy he is. That emptiness paved the way for Toy Story 4.

Argument 2: Toy Story 4 ruined Woody's character.

I know Andy expected Bonnie to take good care of Woody but the reality is that kids go through phases. Kids neglecting toys is an unfortunate reality. Molly neglected Bo and Barbie. Andy neglected all the iconic minor characters from the first 2 movies as seen in 3. Woody realized he wasn't going to get played with on a regular basis so he pivoted towards helping Bonnie's new favorite toy which was Forky. This is who Woody is. He is going to satisfy his owner in any way possible. He recognized he's not the favorite anymore and he's okay with that because he's not selfish anymore. A quote from Andy perfectly describes Woody's relationship with Forky :"But the thing that makes Woody special is he'll never give up on you no matter what." He went through thick and thin to make sure Forky stayed by Bonnie's side. Watching Forky leads Woody back to Bo. Bo is able to show Woody what being a lost toy is about. Yet another case where he contemplates a new life. This is a different case with Woody not getting played with anymore though. He knows he'd be back in the closet if he went back to Bonnie's. Anyways, Woody rescues Forky by sacrificing his voice box. He continued to go the extra mile for his friends. He saved Buzz in TS1. He saved Jessie in TS2. He rescued the gang from SunnySide in TS3. He now saved Forky in TS4. Same ole Woody. He's also a very forgiving person. He was willing to help Lotso in TS3 and now he was willing to help Gabby Gabby when she got thrown by Harmony. He went out of his way to get Gabby Gabby a new owner before meeting up with Bonnie's toys. The satisfaction of this changed Woody's future outlook on life and it's clearly shown from his face. He continues toward the RV though because he's loyal. He hates the idea of leaving Bo again but he must because he's loyal. Buzz notices he's upset and gives him PERMISSION to live his new life. All of the toys hated to see him go but they all approved of it. It would be a different case entirely if it caused bad blood because Woody and the gang. Woody successfully completed his journey of being with a kid and it was time to give that same satisfaction to others. I'm sure Andy would love it if other kids got to live the life he did. Woody is an amazing person and carries on one of the best character arcs ever. From a selfish brat to a wise toy.

Argument 3: Toy Story 4 ruined Bo Peep

The connection between Woody and Bo was real. They really loved each other in TS 1 and 2. The departure scene between Woody and Bo at the beginning of TS4 was devastating. We meet her for the first time in years during TS4 and we find out she's a lost toy with a changed mindset. She also changed her appearance to go along with her new independent fierceness. She was always fierce, an example being her aggressively pulling Woody away with the hook to kiss him. Molly abandoning her drove her over the edge and created a new independent figure. She also had one other owner that resulted in her abandonment again so she decided she was going to use her life to help others over wallowing on a shelf. I respect her. I don't see anything wrong with her change in character. I would become more strong willed if I was put in similar circumstances.

Argument 4: Woody and Bo Peep's relationship sucks

Unpopular opinion but this was always my preferred Toy Story relationship. The Buzz Jessie relationship was more of a comedic relief but TS4 showed us there was a deep connection between Woody and Bo. Woody had certain mindsets towards kids and Bo was able to change those after he experienced certain events himself. Woody put himself in Bo's position and I think that enhanced their relationship. There's a mutual understanding with them now. Woody also makes Bo a better person. After abandoning Forky in the antique store, Bo asked herself what Woody would do and changed her mind. It's a relationship we all strive for in real life. The scene where they both witness the view above the carnival is really well done. Woody focusing on Bo more than the beautiful scenery showed me all I needed to know. Their chemistry was strong. You go Woody. You wouldn't leave your friends unless it was important to you.

Argument 5: They made Buzz stupid.

I don't have a genuine argument for this. My only comment is they purposely made Buzz a side character so Woody's story could come full circle. The "Listen to your inner voice" line at the end of the movie really did make things come full circle though. Kudos to Buzz for doing something right. This was my big criticism of the movie though.

Argument 6: They sidelined the original toys.

Again, they did this to give full attention to Woody. I didn't like it either but it was appropriate to make Woody's arch come full circle. There really was no role for them with this kind of story. Jessie being sidelined really annoyed me but she's the main character of the upcoming TS5 so that doesn't make me mad anymore.

Argument 7: The new toys sucked

Disagree entirely. They are all hilarious. The plush rush scene is one of the funniest scenes I've ever seen from Pixar. Forky's state at the beginning of TS4 can be relatable to humans who are down on their luck sometimes. Duke Caboom was also great. The stunt off the Ferris wheel is one of the best shots in all of a Pixar. No issues with any of the newbies.

Final Thoughts

To end off my rant, they probably should have named this Toy Story: Woody's Journey or something along those lines instead of Toy Story 4 to specify that this was HIS story. The Buzz storyline still irks me but the movie has grown on me quite a bit. Thanks for reading everyone.

TL;DR: I used to think Toy Story 4 was unnecessary, but it has grown on me over time. Toy Story 3 was the perfect ending to Andy's story, while Toy Story 4 serves as the conclusion to Woody's story. Throughout the franchise, Woody repeatedly struggles between loyalty to a kid and pursuing his own happiness, and TS4 finally resolves that conflict. His decision to stay with Bo is not out of character. It is the culmination of lessons he learned across all four films. I also think Bo's personality changes make sense given what she experienced as a lost toy, and I enjoyed the new characters. My biggest criticisms are that Buzz was written too simplistically and the original toys were sidelined, but I understand why Pixar made those choices to keep the focus on Woody's journey. Overall, I do not think TS4 is as strong as the original trilogy, but I do think it is a meaningful and worthwhile conclusion to Woody's character arc.