u/Background_Touch3813

1. The fact that darius q gives ghosted is so nice. I hate creepblock so much,i swear to god the champ would be unplayable without it.

2. The bleed giving vision when it's gonna kill. It's so satisfying to watch when they run out of vision trying to escape, and eventually accept their death as they stand still

To me he is horrible as a toplaner and here are a few reasons.

1)It always seems that either jungle or top is out of line. Even riot has admitted it, balancing both roles seems to be impossible.

2)The nature of his kit makes matchups too polarizing(get it?, because he is a polar bear.). He has very little skill expression , counting passive, 3/5 abilities are literally auto attacks or auto enhancements .While his runes and items are all centered around doing more with autos. That leads to many situations where the matchup is just decided by if he can or can't auto you to death. Data suggests this too

https://preview.redd.it/vmcnyj9u225h1.png?width=1065&format=png&auto=webp&s=ca9990b97d1541132da86635388b002110b61be2

A lot of his matchups are either 47-% or 53+% wr.

3. He has horrible itemization. I don't get why a champion can build ap bruiser,ad bruiser,ap on-hit, or drain tank and still do mixed damage with all of those builds. Trying to buy defensive against him seems pointless a lot of the time. And even if you try to, he can adapt his build and still be able to have pressure on you. He can make use of every single stat in the game, yet none stick out as great to him. A lot of the times he is just buying items for their passives even if some stats don't make sense for the rest of the build (navori's crit on ap voli for example)

4. Expanding on 3, trying to engage in any of the systems that are supposed to give you counterplay genuinely feels ass. Anti heal? You shouldn't give him heal anyway on lane, but still forced to buy it for later. Anti shield? He shields a lot but you shouldn't buy it just for him. Bone-platting against the no range immobile juggernaut? Nuh uh, he can easily break it accidentally with his passive. Unflinching? Nope, ironically not that much uptime ,since he has sustained damage and the slow+stun is only on the start. Resistances against him? Nope already established it's pointless. Everything that you try to do against him feels inefficient.

In my opinion, he is not even a badly designed champion. Just a badly designed toplaner, in jungle all of these complains pretty much disappear or become irrelevant . And even then ,he is not the worst offender for badly designed champions, it's just that the problems he has are unique to him, and no one seems to point out that he is problematic.

He always seemed better suited for jungle to me. It's even a weird situation for riot, since both roles seem to have a very solid playerbase, so they can't really remove him from either role so they can balance him properly.

Do you agree with me or am i alone on this one?

https://reddit.com/link/1tkadpz/video/qoyzd42rnm2h1/player

You can't cheese the toplaner level1?

Easy!!!

Cheese the jungler!

In all seriousness i have been doing this in both comp and regular draft up around high emerald and it works perfectly fine. After they moved jungle spawn timers to 0:55 almost no one guards the jungle. You just need to get to the blastcone , hit it at 0:55-0:56 and you will catch the enemy jungler just having blown their one ability on the camp, and most likely kill them.

This scews up wave priority and xp, so don't do it if it's a matchup that wave prio matters a lot. Do this when either they have an insanely weak level 1 toplaner like mundo or nasus, or something like vayne or kennen where you probably won't kill or get prio anyway on them anyway.

Ideally ask your midlaner to walk with you untill the mid brush so even if they guard it you won't be fighting a 1v2. If the jungler is not there just ward and walk back to lane, in this case you will be in time for all three melee minion xp.

If you end up catching and killing the jungler then great! You delayed their clear by 30+seconds and made them vulnerable to early invades which puts them out of the game permanently. You also just tilted him beyond belief+ he is gonna spam ping his own toplaner for the rest of the game.

*Disclaimer: this doesn't always work against junglers that have low cd dashes from lvl1. Kayn and belveth come to mind. They will flash out, dash and just get too much distance. Also most other junglers if they remain cool can insta flash over the blue pit and run to mid, but i have legit only seen someone do this only once out of dozens of times. In this case just let blue reset and you basically got their summ for free and guranteed your jungler double scuttle. If they panic and try to fight you or run in any other direction, you kill them.

Also this is nothing new, just reminding you that it exists as an option, it's super fun when pulled off

I went and counted how many champion changes and system changes each role got.
Here are the results:

Toplane champions: 36 changes
Toplane systems: 2

Jungle champions: 56
Jungle systems: 0

Midlane champions: 38
Midlane systems : 3

Adc champions:19
Adc systems: 0

Support champions:16
Support systems: 12

All other systems:42

At first glance it doesn't seem that bad. But digging a bit deeper reveals another story.

The toplane roster is the biggest out of any other role roughly tied with mid ,with around 60 champions . Compared to adcs(23), junglers(around 53),mid(around 60) and support(around 42). It's obvious that the roles with more champions should, and would get more changes.

Now let's see which champions in top actually got changed, since a lot of these changes were back to back nerfs or buffs.

All the actual champions in top that got any change would be Quinn,Yone,Voli,Heimer,Teemo,Varus,Trundle,Riven,Jayce,Ambessa,Kennen,Kayle,Illaoi,Rumble,Gwen,Garen,Cassio,Olaf,Ornn,Tahm,ww,Gragas,Wukong,Singed.

Out of 200% pickrate (since there are 2 toplaners per game), those champions,in the last patch, occupy about 70% of it. In other words ,each team has 35% chance that their toplaner has received balance changes the last 4 months.

Still doesn't seem that bad, but let's dig even deeper. Which of these changes were actually meaningful?

Without going into too much detail, the only changes that actually did anything for the champions were quinn,yone,voli,ambessa,kennen,kayle,gwen,camile, garen,cassio,olaf,ornn and wukong , with teemo and heimer both getting nothing changes but also being in the next patch. The rest were either neutral power shifts, like tahm, or placebo nerfs/buffs that barely moved them in wr and ranking.

I will also mention a target nerf to anivia top recently , although she is not a designated toplaner

12 champions that got meaningful changes in the last 4 months is horrible and is indicative of a stale lane. Do the devs seriously think that toplane is in a fine spot right now? With how many people complaining how ranged top has taken over toplane and specific champions having a huge number of complaints against them for months(shen,garen) i can't see how this is the case.

Even empirically i can tell you that all roles have gone through meta shifts except top. Jng meta has changed like 5 times in the last 4 months, mid meta changed with the pro-oriented patches, adc has transitioned from early to midgame adcs like yunara to late game hypercarries like jinx or smolder. Supports are now getting changes to move them to a tank engage support meta rather than enchanter. Top is literally the same all these months.

A lot of content creators have even moved on from top to other roles. Naayil,AloisNL, Viper husum,NoArmWhatley all have either completely moved away from top or have taken a short break from it.

I will literally start believing that riot has no one in the balance team that actually plays top consistently if nothing changes in 16.12

This post is not made to compare toplane to other lanes, but to outline how little love toplane has gotten. To be honest i think mid should also get some meta changes but i mainly care about top

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Now some notes:

I only counted a change as a "x role" champion change if it actually impacted that role,not just because that champion is played in that role. For example just because mundo got a Q jungle mod nerf, and mundo is mainly a toplaner ,doesn't mean that i counted it as a toplaner change, in this case i counted it only as a jungle champion change.

16.11 is next patch, but the patch notes are on spideraxe's twitter

The "All other systems" were basically all the non role-tied item changes, minion changes, rune changes,grubs etc. Basically everything that impacted all roles. While stuff like role quests changes , or items tied to a specific role (upgraded boots, support items) are in their perspective role changes.

I decided to use the lol wiki for what champions i consider toplaners,midlaners,supps etc with 1-2 personal exceptions like excluding mel support and rengar top.

Pick rate data was taken from 16.10 from lolalytics.

I only double checked toplane changes, i might have miscounted a bit on other roles or system changes

I did 8 patches because it's a 4 month patch cycle, if you go to 16.2 , 16.1 and before data is even worse, with toplaners getting proportionally even less attention.

Junglers did get the most changes but they also got the most "nothing burger" changes, stuff like fizz , maokai and brand jungle mods that did nothing to them yet still contribute to the count.

That's all, thanks for reading and tell me if you think toplane is actually stale or is fine how it is right now.

A lot of people consider anything they lose to as "cheese" to make themselves feel better,but what would you say is actually a cheese strat?

Are all unusual picks in toplane cheese picks? Maybe unusual rune and item setups are cheese strats, like old e max nasus .

Is a strong lvl1 champ like darius or olaf standing in the 3rd bush waiting for you to step up cheese, or is it just them using their lvl1 advantage?

Does it have to do with how easy something is , how much counterplay does it have, or just how often you encounter it? Maybe all 3?

I am asking because back when i played overwatch we would only refer to something as cheese if its purpose was to catch the enemy by surprise , while under normal circumstances it wouldn't be that powerful. In lol it seems people refer to everything as "cheesy"

https://preview.redd.it/kxaslclgmxzg1.jpg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4550db435e5f6c8dec0d86040235f16604938faf

3300 total cost for a 97% gold efficiency item with an unneeded passive and a lackluster active and brutal combine cost of 750.

Trinity is more gold efficient , less cost, keeps phage passive, combine cost is none and the spellblade effect is insane on darius, he literally has the 2nd highest base ad in the game (technically 3rd if you count mega gnar). It also allows you to splitpush way better and it actually scales into the late game.

Spojin provides insane ults and really good damage in sustained fights. After 16 this item shines with 2k true damage ults, and even before that it's still really good and cheaper than stride

Ghostblade gives you combat mobility, a good active and good roaming while being a very decent spike. It basically covers the "anti kite" item role even better than stride

Stride can be good in some matchups where spacing is important, like jax or sett. There the active is actually useful. But i still see no reason to buy this crap. Also although the combine cost is 750 (which is already too high for such an expensive item) , the actual combine cost, the one where you actually get some value over, is 1250 since tiamat is gold wasted on darius.

Stride is this expensive because it is supposed to give champions with no waveclear,waveclear and this is how this price is justified, same with titanic and ravenous btw. It basically gives you more income when completed , but this is straight up not the case for darius. His waveclear is innately good and he doesn't need any more, in fact he lacks single target dps(canon minions, gromps,towers etc) more than anything so trinity actually probably saves you more time and gives you more income. This item just seems pointless on darius

Is there any situation you guys are buying this and being happy that you bought this instead of another item??