u/BaronMcDuff

So. Wow. Loved listening to the final/live show.

The ending made me remember how much I loved all the moments where Dan & Jordan covered Alex jamming out to You Belong to the City.

Is there a helpful wonk out there who can clarify the moments that happened, and the episode where they introduced DJ Danarchy's remix?

I would love to know. I suspect (hope) other wonks would, too.

Also: regardless of Alex, what a banger. One of my all time favourite songs.

I've seen a lot of people - long term wonks, shorter term wonks, and people who showed up very recently - going at Jordan. Criticism is one thing. I have many criticisms of Jordan. But I take issue with how many people are choosing an unnecessary alliance.

Like it or not, Dan and Jordan were good for each other. For years.

I think people discount how important their dynamic was to the show.

I think Jordan and Dan both grew together through doing the show.

I agree with people who point out that Jordan, after becoming better at compromise and engaging with Dan's critical thought (which did happen), eventually became more angry and rigid. Less thoughtful. More zealous.

But the two brought the best out of each other for almost a decade.

I think that many people who are trying to navigate the loss of something this important are blaming it all on Jordan.

I think that's wrong.

Even posts that arent about this end up with comment sections full of people attacking Jordan.

I take issue with Jordan sometimes, but this phenomenon was a group effort.

I find it troubling the extent to which knives are out for Jordan. I don't think Dan would feel supported by it. I think he would find it discouraging, if not heartbreaking, after everything they've done.

Edit/update:

I was a bit startled by the extent to which this provoked people - both people who agreed and disagreed, and how volatile the discussion became.

I'm not an arbiter of truth. I think I have some insight. Either way, it has clearly both resonated with some people and agitated some people.

I said this because I felt real conviction about it. I was afraid I would get ratio'd for saying it.

It's been a mixed bag.

I'm encouraged by how many people feel similarly, and discouraged by how many people strongly disagree.

But, having had time, I fully stand by what I said.

If anything, I feel that I should have had the courage to stand by what I said from the start. To be more emphatic. More eloquent.

But here we are.

In a schism.

Now that it's over, I've been going back to my favourite moments, and to moments that seem more pertinent now.

I know some of what I'm reliving is about quality of the episodes, and some of it is personal.

So, I'm curious: What are you going back to as we process this, and why is it important to you?

So, obviously, us wonks are feeling a lot right now.

Honestly, I listened to Robert Evans before Knowledge Fight. I still listen. To ICHH, to BTB... When I feel up to it I listen to Weird Little Guys, I really love the network Robert & co have built.

But Knowledge Fight changed my life. It changed a lot of lives for the better. Robert's insightful nature, the caché he built with his audience, he used to direct people to KF.

There are so many people who followed JorDan for years who say, Robert led me here.

Robert would talk about KF being his favourite podcast. He was effusive in his praise. And they had rapport. Listen back and tell me that, whatever the topic, the episodes with Dan & Jordan as guest hosts weren't the funnest things to experience.

I followed them for so many years, because of Robert Evans' recommendation. And they came to be a fixture in my life. Far more than Robert Evans, as much as I appreciate him.

I saw Robert's Bluesky post about the end of Knowledge Fight, and how classy and respectful it was. And it mattered. It meant a lot.

Sincerely, as someone who survived a wild amount of trauma, abuse, and serious physical ailments that not only went untreated for years, but I was abused for seeking answers to:

There was always a home base. A way to re-centre. To recalibrate, to hear people speaking plainly & rationally about the difficulties & complexities of life. Dan and Jordan kept me alive. Kept me sane. Gave me hope. Made me realize what was happening, and reminded me that the world is full of people who understand. Made me realize that no matter how bad things get, if you search and stay open, you can find community.

So many wonks got there via Robert Evans and his endorsement of KF on BtB. I can't speak for a whole community, but I'm immensely grateful. I know many others are too.

Even if it doesn't show up the same way in this sub.

And you know what? "That's a brickin" lives forever.

I know we're all feeling lots right now about the end of this.

But I feel this strongly, having sat, thought, relistened, and tried to interpret the nuance of the final discussion, based on thousands of hours of context:

Dan & Jordan have experienced an interpersonal break, and they agree it's irreconcilable.

Truly, in all the years, all the topics, all the episodes, all the chaos of the world they comment on through Alex Jones: I never, ever would have expected this is how Knowledge Fight would end.

It's heartbreaking.

I know that a lot of people had a lot of thoughts about Jordan's video. Lots of people talked about the idea he was having a manic episode. As someone who has experienced both that kind of mental health crisis, and known & loved people who have, all I really have to say is: maybe. That's possible. If someone with that history is expressing their thoughts in such a dire, emphatic way, three things can be true:

1. Things are not that dire, and that person is manic. And they need help.
2. Things are that dire, and they have unique insight into it, and seeing people not listening to reason makes them lash out as if they are manic, because they feel the need to emphasize how serious things are.
3. Both. Some combination of both.

My guess, having listened to the farewell, is 3. I think this is cumulative for both Dan & Jordan. Mania isn't like psychotic breaks, where there's one discrete period of being objectively disconnected from reality. Mania is more nuanced. Mania tells you you're right in both calm times and stressful times.

The way Dan & Jordan talked to each other... I saw myself on both sides of it at different times in my life. And it really, really saddened me.

The first hundred or so episodes of the show, Jordan was far more profane, severe, reactive, and they still found their way.

I think part of the beauty of the show was witnessing how two people could positively influence each other. How Dan could temper Jordan's severity, and Jordan could break through the veneer of Dan's plausible rationalist thinking. Sometimes, people are just liars and racists.

When Trump cowed Alex with his nuke of a tweet, Dan was saying "I don't give a shit about this guy,"  and Jordan expressed feeling a need to help him find his will to fight back. Even while celebrating his comeuppance. They had basically inverted. That felt poetic. Indicative of how true friends keep each other tethered.

The idea that now, with no fanfare, no commemoration, no last ride, barely any explanation, no real resolution... After over 1200 episodes, they release a 30 min episode full of subtext but no clear admittance of the barriers that brought this to it's end...

It speaks to something I found unthinkable. That they have irreconcilable differences. Personally.

Not as broadcasters. Not based on their roles in a partnership, or based on the direction of their show, or anything external that disrupts real friendship.

And it shows. They address that truth immediately. Then try move on for a bit. And it shows.

If anyone has been in a long term relationship - be it based on friendship, family, or romance - and knew it was over, I feel like they know there's something unique that happens. You know. You both know. And you still care, so you try. You try to find that shared ground. And it's a bit cathartic, but you both see and feel your own inability to feel it the same way.

These two have called it quits on their partnership in general. That truth runs through their goodbye like a strong undertow that sucks in anyone near it.

And I'll mourn that far more than I'll ever mourn the death of the podcast.

Jordan said something like, "and the world has changed! Things are different now."

I think we all feel that these days.

Godspeed, fellow wonks. We really were part of something special, and I cherish the journey and the community.

Nothing lasts forever. But some things change you for a lifetime.