Hey Liverpool,
We're The Dive, a local indie rock band from Liverpool and we've just released our latest single!
We've worked really hard on it and we are proud. So if you like music, we would love to know what you think!
Thanks very much for taking the time to listen and support local music.
I've posted here a lot over the past couple of years, but I've always been careful about protecting my identity. But today is the day I don't care anymore...
Before I get into it, for anyone reading this who knows me who may or may not still be a believing JW, I have no hard feelings at all. You might not like what you read on this post, and I'm sure there will already be a narrative about why I left. When I was on my way out, people were saying that my marriage was on the rocks, that I was coercing my wife into leaving with me and that I would probably end up divorced and living with my parents again 😂 Any which way, I'm just having my say and you can take or leave it....and if you ever reach out to me - you always can anytime.
I'm 25 and I was born into this religion. I was a devout witness. I believed, studied hard, went out in the ministry as much as I could and followed all the rules as best I could. I tried to answer up at every meeting and read the bible every single night.
The picture below is of me on the ministry as a teenager, next to my childhood best friend, who went on to be the best man at my wedding. He hasn't spoke to me in about 2 and a half years...
There's also a picture of me and my wife (girlfriend at the time) on the cart outside the Kingdom Hall on a winter Monday evening after work. I was a ministerial servant and my wife was a regular pioneer. We were viewed as good examples and strong in the congregation, well liked and a big group of close friends our own age...
One thing I do have to say, is that even tho I was a true believer, the religion was soul crushingly boring for me. I would have felt guilty admitting that at the time, but looking back I can just see how it was not intellectually stimulating for me at all. That's why Ive included a video (pinned comments) that my wife took of me falling asleep at an assembly 😂 (Northenden Assembly - shout out to any UK exjws who know where that is haha).
All until I woke up at 21. It sort of happened overnight. It was May 2023 and I was bored at work. Out of curiosity I decided to check if Serena Williams was still a Jehovah's Witness. I went on her wiki page and found out that she waited to retire from tennis before getting baptised and I didn't like that at all. From there, I clicked on the wiki page link to Jehovahs Witnesses...before I knew it I was on JW facts. As I read, it was like I was connecting dots that had been there my whole life and I'd never joined them up before. It was an almost instant realisation that I was in a doomsday cult. I've never known a feeling quite like it...absolutely surreal.
From there I went on to do copious amounts of research about the organisation, the doctrines and every belief I had ever had for a good six to eight months.
At this point I wanna say thank you to this community. The posts here helped me and my wife so much when we woke up. And having a place to dump my thoughts about everything JW related and see what people said has been so cathartic.
But now, three years on, me and my wife are fully out. We both fully woke up and faded successfully. We've never been happier. And now that we are out we are pursuing our real goals. I've always wanted to be in a band since I started playing bass when I was like 15. I had been in Jehovah's Witness bands but we had to "keep them in their place".
But I'm immensely proud of building new friendships, creating music, and just doing what I love. We've just released our latest single 'Don't Let Me Waste It', and I wanted to share that here to show how far I've come. I've included a little clip of me (the bassist!) playing the song with my band, here's the link if you wanna check it out: Don't Let Me Waste It
I hope this post might help someone who is scared about what life will be like when they leave...I hope it gives them a bit of hope and inspiration that things can and do get better. And that its hard at first...really hard...but it has to get worse before it gets better. Be brave, believe in yourself and enjoy your new found freedom outside of the Watchtower prison!
What did you guys do when you escaped the Watchtower??
This is somewhat of a follow up to a post I made a few months back: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/3bCM6sLLJ8
I was speaking to my pimq friend again today. He's still an active believing JW but he does the openly disgaree and/or criticise the GB sometimes. He's sort of in the camp of "the organisation has got stuff wrong but it's the best religion out there" (which is kinda what I think the Governing Body believe but thats a separate issue haha).
So he was telling me an 18 yo kid in the hall threw a house party the day after his birthday. It was mostly young JWs and there was heavy drinking, neighbours complaining and boys and girls getting up to all sorts...if you ever went to any JW parties as a "youth" then youve seen this before haha...
But this was basically a birthday party in all but name. I told my friend that I think they may allow birthday parties in future and he said he wouldn't be surprised. It seems like the R&F are ready for an announcement on birthday parties....
But my main takeaway from the conversation is that the JW religion is in decline in the West and having somewhat of an identity crisis. He talked about how no one thinks or even talks about the end being close, as if they've all jusy forgotten about it...and that they're all focused on their lives here and now. This is a massive cultural change to when I was in just a few years ago! Every year it was "this might be the last memorial/convention etc etc". He also said that the organisation is toning down that message too...
The ministry has dropped off massively in his hall. His hall actually gets good attendance compared to other halls in the area, which I think is due to the elders in that hall being pretty relaxed. But he said even in his hall, many just go to the meetings on zoom.
Plus, in his hall, there are about 100 people...only 6 of those are between the ages of 16 - 24. And they arent really taking the religion seriously. He said he could see if dying out in the West in future generations. He's not wrong, this religion is doomed by demographics in the West.
I asked him if he thinks they are rebranding and he said yes 😂😂 I coudlnt believe it.He admitted that its like a different religion from what it was even 5 years ago.
I asked him what the main beliefs are/main focus points of JWs are now? Like...whats it really all about? And he said "now it seems to all be mainly about obedience and paradise...and thats it really" I was thinking of the carrot and stick but I didnt say anything haha.
I just couldn't help but think what is this about anymore? They've lost the last days urgency and prophetic deep dives of the 90s. What have they got left? Plus they are loosening all the rules at a rapid rate to make it easier for people to become a JW. They're basically just begging people to be obedient and believe at this point (July 2026 Broadcast for example). I think the cracks are starting to show....this religion is not going to vanish overnight. But we are seeing managed decline in the West.
Down with the Tower!!!
I just watched the JW broadcasting for July and wow this was a culty one,
Robert Luccioni is basically begging JWs to stay in the organisation and obey whatever direction they get (even if it seems 'extreme'). He was going on about new direction that they've had and how they just need to go with it etc etc
He asks "where else would we go?" and calls the organisation the best imperfect organisation.
Something that really interested me is that he specifically asks "how do we know that the Governing Body is the faithful and discreet slave?". Then he encourages JWs to study lesson 54 - The Role of the Faithful and Discreet Slave. That shocked me. Isnt that supposed to for people studying whove never been witnesses? To my knowledge, that chapter doesnt get into the 1919 teaching...and neither did he. The speaker didnt even 1919 and I think they're trying to gradually distance themselves from it.
He made a point of stressing a couple of times that we are deep in the last days. They played snippets of the bunker videos and courage video and old convention videos where JWs are shoveling rubble in paradise. This shit is wild honestly. It makes me laugh but at the same time it's awful to think my mum and dad and brother will be watching this and taking it seriously.
There was a section where a family from the Congo relates an experience where obeying direction from the organisation saved their lives. I was thinking about the poor witnesses in Malawi, where obeying the org (to abstain from getting the party identity card) cost them their lives.
The final part that irritated me was a section near the end where young people are being interviewed about their doubts and how they overcame them. They do deal with at least one criticism, but it's poor apologetics and the whole thing was annoying...
Overall, I cant help but feel that this just screams desperation "please please please stay and obey!!" I'm guessing it's a mixture of trying to stop the leaking members and also prepare them for more future changes.
What do you guys think? Are they getting desperate? Big changes coming? Or more run of the mill culty nonsense as usual?
I haven't posted here in a while, but I wanted to get a few things off my chest and this is the first one!
Sorry if you've heard all this before! I know I'm no where near the first person to point this out...
The JW paradise just doesn't make sense. As a JW, it was one of those things I just didn't think about too much. The more you focus in on the details, the more it falls apart. Here's why:
Population boom. So as I understand it, the teaching is that everyone who died before Armageddon will automatically get a resurection. Based on the available evidence tho, we are talking about 100 billion people! Now, I know JWs would argue that this would happen gradually, not all at once. However, the ressurection has to happen in the first 1000 years tho. So, as David Splain says, lets "do the math". That would be 100 million people being resurrected every year for 1000 years. Where are they all gonna go?? How are you going to house, feed and clothe these people whilst giving them all bible studies??
The animals will all become herbivores. Now this one is weird because a lot of pimis, including myself back in the day, would not really accept this even tho it is what the organisation teaches. They would have head cannon like "maybe they won't prey on animals but will be scavangers instead". It just goes to show that no two peolle really have the same religion. Nevertheless, I'm going to deal with what the organisation teaches, rather than random JW head cannon. They get these interpertations from restoration prophecies in Isaiah that use poetic language to describe the Jews being restored to Isreal from Babylonian captivity. Passages like Isaiah 11: 7 and 65: 25 are taken very literally, aside from the massive assumption that these texts have a "secondary fulfillment" to begin with. But it isn't even internally consistent tho! Isaiah 65: 25 says that the serpent will eat dust! So, are snakes going to literally eat dust in paradise? What?? Isaiah 35: 1 - 2, 55: 12, 44: 23 all describe things like deserts blooming, mountains singing and fields clapping. Are we supposed to take thos literally? If not, why not??
Getting back to the main point, anyone who has looked at the natural world can see that there are entire ecosystems built on predation. Animals like lions, wolves, sharks, poisenous snakes are all clearly predator animals. They have killing/hunting instincts, teeth designed for tearing flesh, poisen for paralysing or killing etc etc. Why would Jehovah design them like that if they were supposed to all be herbivores. And without predation, the prey animals would overpopulate and over consume, which links back to the overpopulation problem. It's just ridiculous to me.
Quality of life without industry - how?? Again, I'm going off the organisation's portrayal of paradise from their pictures and videos, which show modern style houses and villas that would need machine timbered wood, steel, glass etc. You can see everything from nuts, bolts and bearings to fireplaces, chimneys windows etc. To create homes and clothes like this for billions of people, you would need mining, refinement, logging, timber cutting, oil rigs etc etc etc. How are you going to transport materials and build without cranes, JCBs etc? How are those gonna be powered? What about plumbing fot access to running water?? Waste management? Whose looking after the sewage systems?
Infinity itself. This one is dealing more with philosophy and human psychology. If you live forever, at some point you will have done everything that you can possibly do. The more time that goes on, you'll just be repeating these things over and over and over. How many times can you paint the same painting? What about when every possible chord progression or melody has already been written? What will there be left to talk about? Infinity in a world of finite possibilities will be boring! With no conflict, suffering or obstacles to overcome, what will even be the point or meaning to anything? For example, I get great meaning from discipline (forcing yourself to do difficult things that you don't want to for a future benefit), like weight lifting. But if I'm already physically perfect, and everybody else is, then that whole process: challenge then reward, is gone. What about human sexuality, which is wired for novelty? I'm a big beleiver in manogamy, but it's a challenge! How about after 100 trillion years of being married to the same person? Can you stay attracted and excited about that? What about having children? There will have to be a cut off at some point? So what happens to sexual desire then? And what about your pets? How many pet lions or pandas or whatever will you have to watch die? Will you be sad? Or will your sadness be overpowered by a supernatural force? Beautiful art and music has come from emotions like sadness, isolation, longing, greif etc. To be happy in this scenario, you are talking about fundamentally redesigning what a human being actually is. What does it mean to be human in a world where there is no sadness, pain or obstacles and infinity ahead of you?
That's my main points. That's not even getting into the moral argument of all the people who have to be genocided to create this paradise. If you read all that, thank you so much. Let me know if you shared these or had any other points to add!