u/ConquerorOfSpace

Now that RWBY is back, I'd like to say something positive about the series.

I consider this one of the best things about Volume 5 (along with Ilia's redemption).

Let's review what makes this scene good.

First, we have Adam and Sienna talking. Notice how Adam is kneeling before her; he's trying to maintain that facade of loyalty.

Sienna expresses her ideology. It's interesting because she doesn't condemn violence itself, but rather the recklessness of Adam's actions. Which makes sense.

Adam says that he only wanted to follow her example. (Pay attention, because this will be important later).

Hazel arrives. He shows himself as someone willing to kneel before Sienna. Very diplomatic. This reveals a lot about his character, as he's someone willing to go the route of dialogue instead of subduing Sienna through force.

Then Adam reveals his true intentions. He expresses his supremacist ideology of the Faunus (basically, the Faunus are superhumans) and how humanity should serve them.
This shows that Adam has ambitious goals, which would ultimately condemn the Faunus if achieved.

Then comes the coup scene. Adam reveals his popularity among the White Fang and how they are willing to eliminate their original leader because of his devotion to Taurus.

In the end, Adam kills Sienna, and I like the detail that he says Sienna will be a martyr for his cause. Very clever.

Then a small clash between Hazel and Adam. Something that reveals both of their personalities. As hypocritical as Hazel is, ultimately, he doesn't like unnecessary violence. He is more... utilitarian.

While Adam is more sadistic.

Something Adam says is that he follows Sienna's example. This could be true. She was a great influence on him. This could very well be a reflection of how Sienna's ideology is self-destructive.

I pointed out that the scene was almost perfect. Almost. What was missing?

First of all, Sienna only just appears. And while there are mentions of her here and there, it doesn't seem enough considering the importance she should have.

And second, I would have liked to see a fight between Adam and Sienna. Let's suppose Sienna dodges Adam's attack and the fight begins. We really have no reason to think Adam couldn't win.

Beyond that, it's a good scene. Very good.

I mean, it's obvious that if Atlas is lifted all the way up into the atmosphere, eventually the resources will run out and everyone will die.

There's also the fact that the idea isn't to lift Atlas into space, but to a point where Dust can function (since if it's lifted into space, Dust would stop working). But if that's true, it's only a matter of time before Salem gets the technology to reach that point.

These are obvious problems that even we (the audience) can see.

But, for some reason, the other characters can't.

Okay, Ironwood and the Ace Ops, it's normal that they can't see it, I suppose. They're too blinded by their paranoia and this whole thing about following orders.

But what about the others? I mean, Winter is intelligent, why didn't she ever realize that? She's not blinded by fanaticism; she eventually deserts Ironwood's side. Even so, she never mentions these problems.

And Marrow is the one who has had doubts about his actions and those of his comrades ever since Ironwood concluded that the best course of action was to raise Atlas.

What's worse is that no one from Ruby and her friends' group has mentioned this despite its obviousness.
When they were arguing with Ironwood in Gravity, they could have mentioned the problems with the plan.
But they only mention the moral aspect: It would let innocent people from Mantle die.
Also in the brief encounter with the Ace Ops in volume 8, or when Yang was talking with Ren.
I mean, there the characters could have pointed out why Ironwood's plan doesn't make sense.

It's just that the series could have explored how the military was so consumed by paranoia that they followed irrational plans. But, the series always criticizes Ironwood's actions and those of the others from a moral standpoint. (From the point that it lets Mantle die).

If the show portrayed Ironwood's plan for what it is—madness—then I feel it would be a more interesting discussion.

Another thing, some will say that it was never established that James planned to stay up there indefinitely. But it's not like it was ever stated that Ironwood planned to come down eventually either. There are vague dialogues about his long-term plan. We could assume that James planned to stay up there, thinking it was best for Remnant.

I don't know, I say what I say based on what the show gives us. At least I'm open to discussion and I acknowledge that what I'm thinking MAY BE wrong. That is, I recognize that what I'm saying is possible, not necessarily the truth.

There are people who claim that Ironwood planned to come down eventually as if it were 100% confirmed canon, and they get angry when you contradict them.

Thank you for your attention.

Many in the fandom point out that Adam, despite how evil he is, was never created to be completely hated. That he's a nuanced character, and so on.

They point out that the series even tries to make you feel his death as a tragedy.

I disagree. I think Adam was made as someone who is "near pure evil," irredeemable, and so forth.

But okay, let's suppose I thought the writers didn't make Adam that way. Let's suppose I believed Adam is a nuanced character. How would they prove me wrong?

1. Blake crying.

"If Adam were truly a character you shouldn't empathize with, why is Blake mourning his death?"

"In fact, why does the moment of his death take on a more solemn tone, stopping the heroic music?"

Blake: I'm not sure there are many good options left for any of us anymore. Keeping secrets, taking lives? It makes you wonder how far we're gonna have to go to keep doing the right thing.

Yang: Blake. We did... what we had to do.

Blake: I know. But next time, I wanna make sure we don't have to, and I can tell you, ambushing a Huntress who's just trying to help isn't an option I'm thrilled about choosing.

"Why is Blake still affected by his death after volume 6?"

2.-The song.

"If Adam really was a cartoonishly evil, one-dimensional villain. Why does Nevermore spend a part talking about how Adam's death is a tragedy?"

There's no cause to celebrate
Another soul consumed by hate and spite
Another destroyed life
There's no pleasure, there's no joy
It's just a story of a boy who lost his way
Into shadows strayed
He'll see the light of day

3.-The tragic past.

"If Adam really was a created as a hate-sink character, why does he have a tragic past that's even been mentioned in Amity Arena?"

"In the audio commentaries for Volume 7, they don't say Adam deserved the brand. It was just a weird way of saying Adam received it. Besides, they obviously had to remind us that Adam is a bad person. One thing doesn't excuse the other."

There you have it. Like I said, I disagree with the FNDM, but let's suppose you don't. Answer me and clear this up for me. Thanks.

When we arrive in Mantle, part of the point is that the city's situation is bad, and... it really doesn't look as bad as the series tries to portray it.

I mean, the writers wanted us to think, "This is awful." But... it doesn't seem that bad.

I mean, the cameras make sense. In real life, they're used for security. The soldiers and robots are there because of the Grimm's presence.

The architecture is functional (Not, it isn't victorian. It's 50s at worst), and while we see dirty workers... they're miners, which is normal. Hey, not saying that it's good that you are exploited. Just saying that we just saw the tip of the iceberg in how Jacques enslaves his workers.

The biggest problem is the Grimm, really.

On the other hand, if we had gone to the slums, the idea would have been clearer.

We did see the slums, but in volume 8.

We have to consider that the slums are located in the crater. In other words, most of Mantle is slum.

We've seen that the faunus live there. If they had shown us that from the beginning, Mantle's precarious situation would have been clear from the start.

Plus, it would make sense. Being the poorest region, it would make sense for the breach in the wall to be there, and for the Grimm to approach it. You know, negative emotions.

And Pietro's pharmacy would also be there. You know, because of the Faunus' workplace accidents.

But what do you think? Personally, I think it's a small change that would help a lot.

Many say (and I agree) that Ironwood was out of character in volume 8.
So, if trying to destroy Mantle isn't something James would do, what would he do then?

Personally, I think he would have a breakdown. And after that, he would try to contact Ruby. He would propose, "Okay, you guys use the SDC ships to evacuate civilians to Argus. I'll let you do that if you help me raise Atlas into the atmosphere."

I doubt Ironwood wants the civilians of Mantle to go to Atlas. He already expressed that he thought that was risky in Gravity.

Perhaps he would even propose that "those military personnel who wish to assist in the evacuation" be free to do so. Before that, Ironwood would expropriate all civilian transports (let's say, Bullheads) to help Ruby with the evacuation to Argus.

After that, he would also try to remove Watts' chip from Penny's sword to get rid of the virus. Okay, that probably won't help at all, because the virus is already in Penny's system. But in that case, he'll probably try to talk to Pietro to see if he can do anything.

Besides that, Salem is still in Atlas City (even though she's regenerating). So he'd need everyone's help to knock her out of the city and get her out of there.

I think that's what Ironwood would do. But what do you think? What do you think Ironwood would do?

Look, I don't find these posts funny. Okay? If it were up to me, I'd talk about things other than Ironwood, like, I don't know, Vacuo or Glynda. But I always end up going back to the same old thing.

I don't want to rant, so I'll just continue with the post.

Ironwood is neither homophobic nor transphobic

Forest: They were all top Atlas Academy graduates, who could've signed up for the military, but Robyn and the Huntresses chose to stay in Mantle. She's gunning for a seat on the Kingdom's council, and when she gets it, she's going to put an end to Ironwood's tyranny!

According to Forest, the Happy Huntresses (which includes May) could have joined the Atlas military as special operatives if they wanted.

Regarding homophobia, well... Blake and Yang were flirting quite a bit during the mission at the SDC mine, and it's not like the Ace Ops reported that to James.

Blake: Is it… bad?
Yang: No! No. It's good. Great, even!

Ironwood isn't a xenophobic ultra-nationalist

Ironwood: After what happened with the Ace Ops, I don't want you to think I'm keeping anything from you, especially something as important as this. For the time being, I think it's safest with the people who brought it here.

Ironwood has always had trust issues. True. He didn't trust Leonardo, he distrusted Ozpin, and others. But during the Atlas arc, he showed a willingness to trust people from other kingdoms.

In fact, his initial plan was to reveal the truth and help the other kingdoms defend themselves against the Grimm. And then, together, fight against Salem.

Ironwood isn't a supremacist. He has acknowledged Atlas's power, but he doesn't consider it a superior kingdom. He's simply aware of Atlas's advantages and disadvantages.

Furthermore, the border closures and the embargo aren't xenophobic or anti-immigration measures. They're to prevent Salem from infiltrating the kingdom. If we saw Ironwood forcing foreigners to leave the kingdom, okay, but we've never seen that.

Ironwood doesn't believe Atlas is perfect.

Ironwood: No. No, you're right. Things in Mantle have been... hard to manage lately. I'm not blind to its issues. In fact, that's what I want to talk to you about.

Ironwood: No. This one's an Atlas problem.

Trophy Wife: Arrest her! What are you waiting for? She's insane, she should be locked up.
Ironwood: She's the only one making sense around here. Thanks for the party, Jacques.

Ironwood is aware of the kingdom's problems. From the frivolity of its elites, and the differences that exist. He doesn't believe Atlas is perfect.

Marrow: This society is set up for Faunus to be at the bottom, and humans are willing participants. They benefit from doing nothing to help us.

If Ironwood were truly someone who believed Atlas was perfect, wouldn't he find it problematic to have Marrow on his most trusted elite team?

Ironwood used to care about Mantle (at least before).

Robots, soldiers, Penny, aircraft, even Huntsmen. James has put the city under protection, although the wall still needs repair and the security network needs updating. There is concern for the city.

In fact, once Ruby and her friends arrive in Atlas, the army assigns them to protect parts of Mantle.

Marrow: We need someone to escort children to the preschool down in Mantle. There's not actually any danger, but the parents fret, and that attracts Grimm.

Elm: A massive Sabyr is loose in the Mantle sewers! We need two brave warriors to flush it out!

Clover: Diverting all construction resources to Amity Tower means there are going to be gaps in Mantle's defenses against Grimm. They'll need help on the perimeter.
Clover: But there's still plenty to do in Mantle itself.
Clover: I think you'll find everyone appreciates having a Huntsman around.

In fact, there was a reason Ironwood put security measures in place.

Ironwood: Citizens of Mantle - Following the most recent Grimm attack, a temporary prohibition of assembly is in place. There are to be no public gatherings of any kind. Please conduct your business and return to your homes before curfew.

Ironwood not entirely responsible for Mantle's poverty

Certainly the embargo and border closures affect the economy. But problems of social differences have existed before and it was never established that James was responsible for that.

Qrow: In time, it became apparent that the city of Mantle was living in Atlas' shadow. And so the decision was made to move the Kingdom's capital. Mantle was old news - and the Kingdom of Atlas was born. "A golden age of prosperity" they called it - but those left behind in Mantle would probably tell you it was the coldest winter they ever knew.

Businessman: Atlas, Mantle... You can't deny the economic disparity between the two.
Businesswoman: I mean, what exactly are you suggesting?
Businessman: I'm just saying I don't think it's necessarily an issue of compensation as much as it is one of opportunity...

Ironwood isn't the one who turned most of Mantle into slums. Most likely, when Atlas rose into the sky, that crater served as a site for mining and refining Dust. Workers migrated there, and they stayed. Obviously, the slums need reform, but that depends more on the civilian government.

Ironwood and the Faunus

Well. He has Faunus in his high military positions (Marrow). He trusts Faunus from the Menagerie (Blake). He allows Faunus to represent Atlas in international tournaments (Neon Katt).

Overall, I think he allows equality within his inner circle, within the military and the academy, as we've seen.

Ironwood didn't hate Robyn, and Robyn didn't think Ironwood was a fascist.

Yang: Better Robyn than Jacques Schnee.
Ironwood: Oh, I suppose so. Either way, this choice doesn't bode well for our stability.
Ruby: It could be a chance to work with Robyn and get Mantle on your side.
Ironwood: The likelihood of that working--
Nora: She's right, you have to do something about Mantle. If you could get Robyn to trust you...
Jaune: I bet if you opened up to her she'd understand that you're being framed.
Ironwood: Perhaps... but it will only work if she's open too.

As you can see, Ironwood even considers the idea of ​​working with Robyn.

And well, Robyn only considered Ironwood a problem because of the issue of the wall resources and the embargo and border closure. Beyond that. By her own admission, Ironwood wanted the best for everyone.

Robyn: I used to think you were hiding something to protect yourself. But I can tell there's something much bigger going on here. Now I think it's to protect something else. Us… Atlas, maybe even all of Remnant. And you're afraid of what might happen if you tell the truth.

She wouldn't say that if Ironwood was responsible for all of Atlas problems.

And I remind you that Robyn is progressive. I'll leave it at that.

Ironwood isn't someone who blindly believes in the law.

When Ruby stole the Manta and destroyed military property (the Colossus's arm), Ironwood simply forgave them. When Robyn stole military property, he was still willing to cooperate with her the night the heat went out.

Ironwood truly believes that the end justifies the means, and that sometimes means breaking the law.

Conclusions

I understand that we live in difficult times. So it's normal to project the things we don't like onto fictional characters. But things have to be done sensibly.

I don't like Hitler, for example, I don't like Adam Taurus. That doesn't mean I'm going to project Hitler onto Adam.

I feel like people are trying to draw analogies between two figures even though they have nothing to do with each other.

I know you'll say, "What's the big deal?"

But personally, I do think there's something interesting about all this.
First of all, I'm a Bumblebee fan, so I'd personally love one of these. But I'm broke.

Second, I'm not the only one who finds Yang's outfit interesting, right? It's a pink dress. Very feminine.

I think it's striking because many in the fandom say Yang is a butch, even though she's worn feminine outfits throughout the series and in promotional art.

Something to think about, gentlemen.

So, what do you all think?

I'm referring, obviously, to before they tell Ironwood the truth.

Something I've always maintained is that Robyn should have interacted with Blake and Yang before they told her the truth. While we (as viewers) know Robyn is a good person, it really feels like a very rushed decision to entrust her with something so important.

Besides, we hadn't really seen Robyn helping people until after election night with this whole resource distribution thing. I know she got into politics to help everyone, but we don't even know what her campaign promises are. I could run for office saying I want to help the poor, but that doesn't mean people should support me. What matters are my plans.

One way to solve all this would be some prior interaction.

I read that Blake and Yang couldn't meet Robyn because they were constantly busy…

Clover: You're of course free to enjoy your time off as you see fit. Whatever helps you take the edge off.

Well, Clover mentions that they have a "time off."

I've also read that they supposedly don't interact with Robyn because Ironwood hates her. Which isn't entirely true.

Yang: Better Robyn than Jacques Schnee.
Ironwood: Oh, I suppose so. Either way, this election doesn't bode well for our stability.
Ruby: It could be a chance to work with Robyn and get Mantle on your side.
Ironwood: The likelihood of that working—
Nora: She's right, you have to do something about Mantle. If you could get Robyn to trust you…
Jaune: I bet if you opened up to her she'd understand that you're being framed.
Ironwood: Perhaps… but it will only work if she's open too.

The idea of ​​working with her. She didn't refuse to talk to her. It's just difficult to open up to someone like that when you're so paranoid.

Besides, Nora went to Robyn's party despite everything.

I don't know, I read that supposedly Ruby and her friends don't want to make Ironwood their enemy. But we've seen the kids criticizing Ironwood's plans and Nora yelling in his face.

But okay, so what do I propose?

Imagine this: Blake and Yang were fighting Grimm in Mantle. An attack near the breach in the wall. Yang and Blake make some comments, kind of like they enjoy being together. (We're adding some Bumblebee development).
Okay, so when they're about to call for reinforcements because there are too many Grimm, the Happy Huntresses appear.
They help finish off the Grimm.

People cheer for the Happy Huntresses and everything. Robyn congratulates Yang and Blake for showing great courage and skill despite being so young.
To celebrate, Robyn invites them for drinks.

Blake and Yang accept and go to a bar.
There, Robyn is greeted with great enthusiasm.

Blake is somewhat excited. While Yang talks to May and Joanna about various things (we'll get to that in a moment), Blake speaks with Robyn and Fiona.

Blake says it's a pleasure to speak with such an important figure in Mantle, and that she supports her political campaign.

Robyn is surprised, since Blake is a huntress under Ironwood's command.

Blake says that despite not entirely agreeing with his actions, he's someone who can be trusted… (which makes her wonder if she herself should trust him).

Fiona says it's good to have more Faunus huntsmen in the kingdom, especially a Belladonna.

Blake is surprised by that, but Fiona tells her that they investigated "these new Huntsmen" of Atlas.

They talk, and Blake basically recounts how she, her father, and some friends stopped the White Fang in Haven.

Robyn says she's sorry to hear that, since she believes Sienna's project shouldn't have ended like that. And she also thinks it's a shame what Adam ended up becoming.
Blake sadly confirms. (Although without revealing that she killed him).

Blake says that her father is trying to create a new movement.
Robyn toasts to that, saying that she thinks he's a good man, even if she doesn't entirely agree with his pacifism.
During the conversation Robyn expresses her plans and projects if she becomes councilwoman, saying that she will continue fighting for Mantle even if she loses.

The drinks arrive, and Blake says for a moment that she's too young to have an alcoholic drink. Until she remembers that she's an adult, so she can drink. Yang encourages her, and she ends up having a piña colada.

If you're wondering, Yang was talking a bit about her experiences as Huntress, saying that she's doing well now thanks to the support of her friends.
Yang makes a special mention of Blake, blushing.

To which May and Joanna exchange knowing glances.

In the end, Blake and Yang basically say that they appreciate the drinks, but now they have to go back to the academy to go to bed since it's very late.
Robyn says it was a pleasure meeting them. She appreciates them protecting Mantle. And if they need anything, they can always count on her.
Blake and Yang then leave.

Okay. The scene lasts at most 5 minutes, and beyond the initial fight scene, it wouldn't require too much money or animation investment.
It provides some Bumblebee footage. Gives the characters extra characterization. Robyn reveals her colors in a good way and makes her look likeable. It serves to cultivate an already established relationship between Blake, Yang, and Robyn. The scene of the Happy Huntresses fighting Grimm serves to show them fighting for Mantle. Etc.

Overall, I think it's a good idea.

If you're not convinced, then why don't we see them at Robyn's party?

Basically, Yang and Blake would go to Robyn to show their support and ask her a bit about her political project.

They would also try to convince Robyn to trust Ironwood; I mean, if Robyn wins, they'll have to work together.

I read somewhere that Blake and Yang didn't have any free time and that it was necessary to de-stress.

But I say: Blake cares about the faunus, don't you think it makes more sense for her character if we see her take an interest in talking to Robyn? And Yang would want to support her.

Note aside. Why always that we talk about something of RWBY, we end up talking about fucking ironwood? I'm tired.