u/Correct-Strength-885

Yesterday I saw a post (supposed to be a meme) in a sub here showing a couple in a mirror selfie with caption reading “my girl got accepted into ASU.” ASU is Arizona State University

The comment section was horribly misogynistic. It has been long that I have seen a thread on Reddit so overwhelmingly dominated by comments slut shaming women. There was hardly any pushback, and even the pushback was quite downvoted.

I searched ASU on insta, and comments on posts from ASU women or insta pages were pretty much filled with similar vitriol. (Ppl often argue that men are more confident expressing misogynistic views on anonymous platforms like Reddit, but a lot of these men had public profiles).

So the pattern is a massive slut shaming reaction from men to anything related to ASU and women.

They say it’s a party school and if a man’s girl goes to ASU, he‘s gonna get cheated upon. I don’t get this cuz even if it’s a massive party school, it doesn’t mean everyone is involved in partying. It doesn’t mean every man coming to ASU is single and doesn’t have a gf who‘s studying somewhere else. I don’t see any man questioning the behaviour of men at this school, but they are very hateful of women who go there.

(I’ll also like to add that regardless of school, if a couple chooses different colleges, naturally the odds of one or both cheating on each other increase).

Previously, I’ve also seen the rumours and accusations spread by frat guys using burner accounts and the kinda obscene language they use for women.

If this is really how men behave in a first world developed country, what can one expect from men in developing countries?

This post is a bit long. If you can’t engage in any meaningful manner, you can stop reading just here. 

I’m a male (26). I moved out of Pak in 2024, and been living in uk ever since. Other than these two countries, I have been to Morocco as well.

The purpose of this post is very simple and straightforward. I find many people, particularly men, denying that Pakistan is a patriarchal country. I find it utterly ludicrous. 

Pakistan is a patriarchal country. It’s also patrilineal (inheritance and wealth are traced through male line) and patrilocal (women moving to live with in-laws). Many people want to deny this, but the preference for sons is still quite strong. These are raw facts. 

WE DO HAVE A CLASS OF SPIRITUAL RESIDENTS OF NY, LA, LONDON and so on. But they constitute a small minority which lives in enclaves. This westernised class also suffer from similar issues (Noor Muqadam) though to a lesser extent. Most of the Pakistanis aren’t urbanites. Even in urban cities, not everyone has the same worldview. A person living in Liyari has a very different opinion on gender roles than some liberal in DHA or Bahria Town. Not all major urban cities are alike as Peshawar is way more conservative than Lahore. 

The predominant view in Pakistan is that men must be in charge, and they shall keep women in check, often by any means necessary. For instance, if a woman isn’t observing hijab, many will criticise her male relatives for their lack of “protective jealousy.” Hijab isn’t a choice for many women in Pak. 

Now does that mean women always exhibit good behaviour or never do anything wrong in a patriarchal society? No. Absolutely not! Does this mean patriarchy is always supportive of men? No. Does this mean that all women are united against male dominance? No. Does this mean every woman faces similar restrictions? No. Women can have varying levels of autonomy based on class and other factors. 

This being said, it’s also true that consequences for women are much more severe if they break norms and rules. If a man has a gf, he might face disapproval or violence, but the families will react much more strongly if they find out about their girl having a bf. We rarely or never hear about a man being murdered by his own family for having (allegedly or proven) physical relationship outside wedlock, but if we turn other way around, well, yk it. 

I’m from a middle class family and grew up in a small city between Lahore and Islamabad on GT road. My district has one of the highest literacy rates countrywide. Yet, our streets and baazars are strongly populated by men. Many of my male friends could spend whole night outside with little to no objection from their families. 

Speaking of online, Why is it that almost every Pakistani online community has misogyny problem? It doesn’t matter what platform I’m on, from YouTube to Reddit, Pakistani online spaces are very much dominated by men and male pov. 

Here in uk, the social reality is different. You see strong presence of women in streets and public places, no matter if it’s a small ass town or London. However, if you were to visit Pakistani dominated neighbourhoods, you see more men than women hanging out in the streets. 

In Morocco, which is a Muslim dominated North African country, the culture was more similar to Pakistan. The cafes were very male dominated.  But it seemed to contain both western and eastern Islamic influence, and the society is bit relaxed. I witnessed plenty of women riding scooters and clad in western apparel

After experiencing life in these 3 different societies, you tend to understand differences more clearly. If I use UK as baseline, then both Pakistan and Morocco are very different, especially the former. You start to see that the role and participation of women in society is very much influenced by their geography and culture

lately on both insta and twitter I have came across a few profiles of various young Iranian women who don’t observe hijab, hail ZZA, but they are very supportive of Islamic republic, in particular its military, IRGC and broader “resistance.” 

One of them had her pic burning Israeli flag with her cig taking rounds over the internet. I saw this girl’s stories and she even attends pro-regime rallies while draped in regime’s flag. Another of such girls I saw on twitter even went on to write that if she had to choose between Khameini and Trump/epstein class, she’ll choose the former. 

Almost all of these women claim that they were beaten by batons during 2022 protests. 

I’m honestly bewildered to say the least. The same regime to this day hasn’t recognised the fact that Mahsa Amini was murdered by morality police. If you speak up for her, you can’t glorify her murderers. 

I can’t help but assume that these women are somehow related to someone in the Regime. 

Many people, both Iranian and non-Iranians have been justifying violent crackdown on January protests. 

These people are quick to argue that any police force in the world would have responded to violent attacks similarly. They would tell you that American police would have carried out a similar crackdown on “rioters.”

Well, let’s do the comparison and ask questions.

How many countries in the world have morality police? If the American police was violently arresting women for not being dressed properly in the streets, what would be the public’s reaction? How many countries put political dissidents behind bars or arrest people merely for commenting a dot under the tweet of its supreme leader? Hack how many countries even have a supreme leader? How many countries punish people for anti-government activism? In America, people actually do protest against state violence. Aren’t people protesting against ICE? In 2020, after white cops killed a black man, it caused massive nationwide protests and even riots. All over the killing of one man! people chanted or held placards with ACAB (all cops are bastards) written over them. If America was ruled by an authoritarian regime akin to Iran, the public reaction would have been far worse. 

The Iranian security apparatus has employed violence for nearly 5 decades. They have brutally suppressed completely peaceful protests. Neda Agha-Soltan wasn’t rioting when she was shot in a pro-democracy protest in 2009. The regime officials made so many stories, from accusing CIA to calling the whole footage of her death fake. Mahsa Amini wasn’t rioting when she was abducted and tortured.  The murderers of these women were never punished. So many female protesters have lost eyesight in one eye after being shot from pellet guns in 2022 protests.

Did the Iranian authorities and so-called security forces expect to be greeted with flowers after carrying out these atrocities? 

Speaking of violence, was 1979 revolution peaceful? We have well documented, digital evidence of protestors burning public property and causing riots. They also clashed with security forces and many took arms against the state. If it wasn’t wrong then, why it became wrong today? 

Many pro-regime activists and people would gladly glorify Palestinians resorting to violence, and argue that it’s a justified reaction to decades of oppression. But they do a complete 180 with Iranians. Funny how it works. 

The vast majority of protesters were unarmed. The clips released by regime of armed protestors only show a handful of individuals, and most of them carried shotguns or pistols, no match for regime thugs equipped with automatic rifles and machine guns. How come thousands of unarmed protesters got killed in clashes between these small numbers of armed protesters and thousands of regime thugs? Clearly, indiscriminate fire was opened.

I have seen many combat footages. The clips of these so-called security forces shooting don’t come across as clashes between them and armed protesters. They are standing out in open, just firing shots. If they were engaged in a firefight, they would be taking cover. Videos also show them chasing and beating a woman who fell on ground with batons. Another infamous clip is of these thugs driving an heavy armoured vehicle into a large crowd. 

I can go on. But the point is that, you can’t oppress your people for decades, strangle public liberties and rule with an iron fist without eventually facing violent retaliation or uprising. It has happened before in Iranian history, and will continue to happen unless there occurs a democratic change. 

I have made a few posts and argued with a few people over these issues.

This narrative is not only perpetuated by non-Iranians, but also by some iranians.

I was scrolling through Quora and came across this Iranian user who defended executions arguing that those getting executed murdered police or security officers. He also blamed foreign backed rioters for mass killings.

I went through his post history and was left bewildered. He’s a Bahai who became an atheist, and also recognised the fact that the regime is authoritarian/brutal. Yet he’s still trying to justify executions and blaming state violence on protesters.

There’s another Iranian woman I saw on Twitter who apparently westernised in her appearance was defending executions using the same accusations against the victims as this muppet mentioned above.

Even if protesters were violent, are basijis angels? These so-called security forces have been beating and murdering Iranians for nearly 5 decades with zero impunity. What happens when economy is down, unemployment is high and state is increasingly authoritarian? Don’t go pickachu when people finally turn to violence

I’m not a Lebanese, but lurk here from time to time. I wanted to inquire did Hezbollah lost its public appeal? The impression I get from this sub is that they have fallen in public’s eyes.

I also wanted to know how Lebanese people view events in Iran and would they wish for regime change in Iran?

I unfortunately happened to stumble upon a reel from Tucker Carlson show where he had a chat with this “ex-cia” guy John Kiriakou. I had made two posts on his guest here on Reddit, albeit in a sub which is hostile towards criticism of Islamic regime. This “former” cia guy had previously used personal attacks against Pahlavi, and argued that there’s no one who supports monarchy inside Iran, and such Iranians only live in LA who are Mossad stooges.

In the said reel, both Tucker and John made ludicrous claims. 

John argued that Iran isn’t a theocracy, but a military dictatorship. He tells Tucker that many of his friends have visited Iran and life is normal just like anywhere else with people visiting restaurants/cafes and music playing. 

Both Tucker and John believe that Iranians are the most liberal in the entire region. Tucker recalls his dad telling him that there are many liberals in Tehran and he (tucker) saw a lesbian like woman with nose ring holding a portrait of Khameini after he died in an airstrike. 

The comments are just as insane. People were writing “they hold elections” “dictatorship bc they don’t want to submit to people of money”  “Iran isn’t pushing immigration to western world.” 

First, both host and guest are complete idiots. I, a non-Iranian, can confidently say that Ik more about the country than these grifters. 

How sweet of John to claim it’s a military dictatorship. Given his intelligence background, I would expect him to be aware of the fact that there’s regular Iranian military, Artesh, and then there’s IRGC, where latter has actual influence. Translating the abbreviation (IRGC) is enough to reveal the very purpose of its creation and what kind of organisation it is. Basij is one of its 5 branches, and this militia is responsible for internal repression including forcing hijab on women. I suppose this is very liberal of the military dictatorship. 

Does Tucker even knows that the country has death penalty for homosexuality? Why would a visibly liberal Iranian woman going to show support for a man who enacted laws against her kind? Doesn’t he realise that emphasis on such women when pro-regime gatherings are dominated by veiled women signals deliberate effort to promote a narrative?

If Iranians are liberal, then it explains the hostility against the Islamic regime, no?

These people would see short clips of a few upscale neighbourhoods and assume the whole country lives like that. I just had to take one glance at these Iranians, the cafes and the overall surroundings to know that these guys are privileged. It’s not that hard to see.

“Iran isn’t pushing immigration to the western world” Iran has one of the largest diasporas in the world, and most of them immigrate to Americas and western countries. Indeed, the regime has been responsible for pushing people to emigrate.

I don’t even wanna say anything about “they hold elections” “they won’t give money to Jews” and so on. You know that’s utter BS

A few days I made a post on “ex-cia” spy/agent John Kiriakou. I lamented his personal attacks on Reza Pahlavi (Iran’s exiled prince), faulty claims about support for monarchy among Iranians and the way he framed infidelity being taken more seriously in Muslim world as if it’s treated lightly elsewhere.

The post didn’t sit well with the audience here. 

I’m sure most of you aren’t “ex-cia”, mossad or any intelligence agency. But I’m certain that most of you do take interest in intelligence and espionage. 

As an intelligence agent, if you are sent to x country, you would know extensively about its demographics, culture and so on. If you serve in a particular region, say Middle East, you would have a good idea of public opinion in various countries in that region.

What are my issues with this “ex-cia” guy:

>John is of idea that support for monarchy is non-persistent inside Iran, and the only Iranians who support monarchy are Mossad agents in LA. 

I would expect him to know better. It just takes a few searches on insta to find Iranians who support monarchy, and these Iranians live inside Iran. Ik such people myself. Besides in January protests, we did saw a lot of people chanting pro-Pahlavi slogans. There’s undeniable evidence of it all over the internet. 

John comes across as more of IRGC spokesman than an unbiased analyst. He knows that a large segment of Iranian diaspora in LA is comprised of Jews, so his claims are antisemitic either intentionally or unintentionally. 

Some ppl here take it as if I’m arguing that Reza Pahlavi is universally liked within or outside Iran. No. Just like any other society, Iranians are quite divided politically. The opposition is quite fractured. There are people with all sorts of views, and even Pahlavi’s supporters don’t agree on everything among themselves. I’ve seen these two Iranian sisters on insta. The older one is a staunch regime supporter and the younger one is liking anti-regime reels. They both live inside Iran as I write this. (The younger one kinda does lengthy blog like insta posts in which she describes how she spent her day. She posted almost daily during the recent conflict). 

Reza Pahlavi is simply the most popular opposition figure. Hardly anyone even knows of MEK or other groups. 

I think or to best of my guess, John makes these claims to gain attention. 

>He didn’t really told us anything that was new. What did he even revealed back in the day? That CIA tortures people, something which every notorious intelligence agency does? 

Just recently, the Syrian government captured an Assad era regime intelligence officer named Amjad Youssef. That man is one of the main perpetrators of Tadamon massacre, where he individually murdered nearly 41 people. The video of that massacre is literally on YouTube. He is straight up throwing people in a pit full of other dead bodies and shooting them as they fall or land. A very disturbing visual mind you. Similar to that, all the well known intelligence agencies have tortured and murdered people. I would be surprised if CIA wasn’t doing it. Idk why he or those who adore him present his “whistleblowing” as some sort of credential. It’s like saying a surgeon performs surgeries or water is wet, lol. 

>Personal attacks

His criticism of Pahlavi is quite personal, almost like he got some grudge against him. He called his father a degenerate, and accused Reza of cuckolding his own brother. That isn’t political criticism, init? 

I’m not arguing that this man has some really nefarious intentions. But seeing him on so many podcasts and listening to him, I have formed an opinion that he’s an attention seeker.