u/Dangerous_Buy_9151

So I've been rewatching Star Wars lately after Maul Shadow Lord dropped and this has kinda brought about something of a logic paradox I haven't been able to think around. This kinda came around after thinking about Anakin, Order 66, the empire and the Sith.

I reread the Luke Skywalker vs Grand Inquisitor comic where prior to getting his yellow lightsaber he has a heart to heart with a Jedi Survivor; Verla. She describes the force as a whole as a trap. Light or dark side alike, you are just a tool to the universe only to often die after being used for it's purposes according to some arbitrary definition of balance that people label into factions like Jedi/Sith. The more I think about it, the more she's right when looking at everything.

(This part comes heavily from memory so please correct if I end up wrong.) The chosen one prophecy states that an individual conceived without a father would bring balance to the force. As we all know the Jedi interpreted this as Anakin eradicating the Sith once and we all and we all know how that went. The thing is not only does the force "consider" everything that happens; The Clone Wars, Order 66, the Empire + surviving Jedi deaths as restoring balance, but the Sith come back in both canon and legends. Looking at it from a bird's eye view it kind of leaves the feeling that this cosmic resolution brought about by decades of suffering was only a temporary counter balance to an eternal constant.

I recall hearing somewhere that Qui Gon Jinn was the only mentor that could have prevented Anakin's fall yet he interpreted his death to Maul as the will of the force. This leaves little to no room for argument that Anakin was more or less doomed to became Darth Vader from the moment he was conceived and had no choice in how his life would turn out. That's without mentioning that Anakin only came about in response to Plagueis and Papa Palpy deciding to experiment with necromancy shenanigans.

I keep trying to think of something that goes against this logic but any free will argument kinda falls flat for jedi especially with how often they preach about trusting in the force and how often they do end up doing so to variable extents

Anakin also wasn't an omniscient messiah who knew what was in store for him and his flaws/emotions make him more mortal/human than most Jedi. He was just a guy who had normal desires for a normal life with someone he loved and become a father.

Finally we know the dark side itself acts like a proactive self aware lure to many force users. It can dramatically alter an individual's personality and has out right been described as a drug by creators. In particular if they're in circumstances that expose them to it whether voluntarily or not. That's not even mentioning how susceptible a person becomes in falling to the dark side if they do something driven by something remotely resembling a negative emotion.

We've seen it's pro active addictive lure quality with Star Killer having to spare Papa Palpy. The Grand Inquisitor's lust for power and knowledge once succumbing to it. Palpatine going from an adrenaline junkie spoiled brat to full on pyscho. Trilla and the Ninth Sister pushing themselves into it as a coping mechanism. Vader's tendencies of being... well... Vader.

We've also seen how it changes a person completely with Dooku's idealism devolving into tyranny first, Maul literally being groomed for it. The grand inquisitor going from a frustrated jedi to becoming far more sadistic once succumbing to it. Komari Vosa's torture at the hands of a dark side cult. Vader's tendencies of being... well... Vader.

So yeah. What are your guy's take?

It's entirely possible I'm thinking too much into this but Lu's phrase "Hell isn't just a place, it's a punishment" has put an idea in my head that I want your take on.

First off the exterminations. Lu doesn't exactly keep to himself that he has an incredibly low opinion of sinners and at this point it's widely accepted that Lilith seems to have actually been the one to manage at least the pride ring's politics with the exception of meetings with the other sins. Heaven likely knows about this so why would they make an army to kill sinners on mass when they have someone who could do all the dirty work for them? If the only thing stopping him is the high angels decree that his eternal punishment is to not harm sinners why not remove it once a year? Problem solved and on top of that it would be a lot less of weight on Sera's conscious and a far smaller security issue. How can anyone learn if only one person knows on heaven's end? Could it be that Lucifer's punishment isn't something heaven has control over and simply became aware of he once was in hell?

This also somewhat ties into how Charlie explained how hell came to be. It is super important to note that hell wasn't some empty cosmic void that heaven decided to throw Lu, Lilith and sinners into. It never existed until to quote Al, Lu "gave Eve a red delicious."

Charlie explicitly said; "Evil finally found it's way into earth WITH IT a new realm of darkness and sin." In addition Charlie described the entire free will incident as a "reckless act." It's fair to interpret this as hell, evil, and sin we're never meant to exist. They were something outside the angels plan for creation and they KNEW something like this could happen, thus they were super adamant about holding off the fruit of knowledge. Hell was an accident and a side effect of free will, not the desired outcome.

It might sound weird that hell has some innate law that even a heaven born seraphim is bound to when it was never meant to exist and no such thing seems equivalent exists in heaven but hear me out. Hell as a domain/realm does seem to have a will of it's own with the eyes present in every ring, and the fact that Sinners are bound to the pride ring not by law but by magic. Why would Lu do that he hates them so much? It was recently confirmed that Lu's darkened limbs are not gloves/socks but actually burn marks from his fall. The same has also been speculated to be the case for his wings. While the effects are tangible and not metaphysical it does at least lend credence that even a seraphim angel is susceptible to receive negative effects of some kind from this realm.

Second I wanna talk about the appearance sinners take and Vox's defeat. I think it was Amir Talai (Al's voice actor) who said in an interview explaining that Alastor took the form of a deer because hell on some level forces a sinner to take the form of something they are intimately shamed by/dislike. In most cases that would be the cause of their death or the sin that got them into hell (I interpret it as feeling like they weren't able to get away said sin cus pride).

What if it doesn't just stop there though? What if hell is acclimated to provide a personal eternity of suffering for each individual sinner by forcing their afterlife to inevitably culminate in them failing at whatever selfish/evil thing they do IF it would hurt them on personal level. You could look at Sir Pentious's success rate in hell as a potential example. He wanted recognition and companionship and he could have gotten that if he helped Jack the Ripper face justice but he chose remaining in his stable little world. His personal misfortune in the afterlife is for that to now forever remain beyond his reach cus he had his chance and now only wants fame for selfish reasons.

I also find Vox's defeat to be rather interesting since it heavily mirrored his downfall on earth. A meteoric rise, gathering a cult following, and being on the cusp of accomplishing his goal only to lose absolutely everything at the last minute. What if that is Vox's personal hell? He didn't fall victim to this until now cus his greatest selfish desire isn't just to be acknowledged through becoming an overlord like Pentious but to cement himself at the absolute top. What if that his actions/motivations in life forever doom him to have that rise end with humiliation and failure everytime?

With all this in mind what other punishment would be befit Lucifer than forever having to live with the worst of the worst for eternity. His depressed closed off state is the logical conclusion for every sinner in hell. Not having any drive to do anything whatsoever yet still having to endure the thing that hurts you most.

If this theory turns out to be true it would also be incredibly poetic for when Alastor inevitably makes his power grab and falls into the same trap Vox did. His arrogance will make him think his schemes/deals will allow him to cheat the system but to quote his own words. "He will fuck it up. He'll never fill his cup cus he's broken from the start and no victory will ever be enough." Vox wanted power through big flashy spectacle but Alastor's actions show he doesn't just want to climb the ladder he wants to grab everyone above them and bring them to the lowest place they can possibly be in so he can rub it in their faces. What he doesn't know is that will never happen and the the only way out of the cycle is either redemption or death.

Beyond Al being a bit of a hypocrite why do you think he views Vox as so far below him despite as far as he knew only wanting a business partnership. He seems to at least hold deference to Zestial and possibly even Carmilla despite their relationships arguably being an even bigger show of weakness in his eyes. Is it possible Al is just into goths?