r/StarWars

Qui-gon was respected, logical, patient and to me an epitome of what a Jedi Master should be. And Liam Neeson played him perfectly.

Sorry this will be a long post. As many stated before, I think the biggest mistake of the sequel trilogy was treating the end of Return of the Jedi like a reset button:

The Empire is defeated, then thirty years later the Empire is back with a new name, a bigger superweapon, a bigger fleet, another masked guy, another Emperor and somehow the Rebels are Rebels again. It is a copy-paste with a different font and it makes the entire original trilogy feel pointless.

I believe, the more logical sequel story would be about what happens after the Rebels actually win instead of the overly used rise of the Sith and the return of Jedi again and again.

Winning a civil war does not erase the old system. The Empire did not come from another galaxy. It was the Republic. Same capital, same bureaucracy, same military, same industries, same political class. Palpatine did not invade the Republic. He used its own institutions and turned them into an empire, including it millions of military and civil servants.

So the New Republic should also be an evolution of the Empire, whether it likes it or not.

It would inherit ex-Imperial officers, shipyards, intelligence networks, corporations, local governors, tax systems and millions of people who had built careers under the old regime. Some would genuinely accept democracy. Some would pretend. Some would think the Empire was brutal but efficient. Some would simply wait for the right moment.

So that is where the conflict should come from, instead of a secret army hiding in a corner of space for thirty years while building a planet-sized gun without anybody noticing. And where were their families? It's been 30 years, most of these soldiers were born after the fall of Palpatine.. thus, who raised them?

Back to the topic, the capital should remain Coruscant. Moving the capital around and then destroying a random system we barely know was a terrible decision, it made no sense while watching it for the first time. It gave me no feeling at all. An alien planet that I am not familiar with got destroyed, so what? Coruscant is the political heart of the galaxy. We know it and we watched it and played it and read it for countless hours. A coup on Coruscant would immediately feel important.

Thus, the first film could begin with the New Republic already under pressure. There are economic problems, border conflicts, piracy, separatist movements and old Imperial regions that never fully accepted the new government. Some planets want more independence. Some want a stronger central government. Some want their old privileges back. Some senators are corrupt. Some are cowards. Some are secret Imperial loyalists. Others care more about their own planet than the Republic.

Then of course as we need some action to start with, a plot, a faction aligned with the former Empire, inside the Republic tries to take power. They would not call themselves the Empire, that is for sure as that would be stupid. They would claim imperial era was a continuation of the old republic and the imperial era was better for the ordinary people in terms of welfare and life, which I am sure, many in distant planets would agree. Consider the millions of old people missing old days during post-Soviet times.

They would call themselves something shiny like the Committee for Restoration or the People's Republic Authority (this one would be problematic in terms of real politics thou). They would claim that the humans are superior beings, aliens are of low intelligence, senators are traitors. They would say now the order has been restored. Even more, they would claim they are restoring the "OLD REPUBLIC".

They would use Republic law with old Republic uniforms and Republic ships with some old republic and imperial mix touch.

That is much more believable than the First Order appearing from nowhere and somehow conquering the galaxy in a few days.

And then the Republic fleet would split.

Some admirals would support the coup. Some would remain loyal to the elected government. And most would probably wait or became warlords, like it was in China during 19th and early 20th century.

That part is important: Real military officers do not always know which side is legal during a coup. They receive conflicting orders. Communications are cut. Ministers disappear. The Senate claims one thing, the security council claims another. Some commanders protect their own sectors instead of taking sides. Others wait to see who wins.

This also solves the ridiculous Resistance problem. The heroes would not be twenty people in a cave (that is where I've realized I am truly watching a kids' movie as it is always reminded here) fighting ten thousand Star Destroyers. They would be one faction of the Republic military trying to convince the rest of the fleet to support them.

Their job would not be to magically destroy the entire enemy force. Their path would be exposing the coup, rescue legitimate senators, reopen communications, secure important systems and convince neutral admirals to choose a side.

Then, when a large fleet finally arrives in the third film, it would mean something. We would know who they are and understand why they waited. Their arrival would be the result of three films of political and military struggle, not Lando leaving for twenty minutes and coming back with fourteen thousand ships out of blue. And this time they'd be military vessels not cargo ships fighting against star destroyers.

Han and Leia’s son should be one of the main heroes in the first film but in a different way. Falling to the dark side is overly used and cliché. Ben Solo could be a successful Republic pilot with ranks, captain or even an admiral. He is respected because he is actually good at his job, not because he has famous parents (well we all know in business parents always matter thou, lol).

Leia is a senator or senior political leader. Han could have spent years helping build the Republic fleet before becoming tired of politics. Luke has rebuilt the Jedi Order, but it is still small as it was largely destroyed.

Ben sees the worst parts of the Republic up close. He watches senators accept bribes, politicians ignore Imperial activity, them always thinking about next election, not caring anything except their planet systems.

And of course in the first movie Ben hates the coup. He fights the people trying to destroy the New Republic. He saves civilians. He keeps his fleet together. He works with the young Jedi protagonist that Luke has sent to him.

Here let me tell about that padawan (i forgot to mention above but I think it is more suitable here). As I said Luke and a few surviving Jedis re-established the temple. Now now their numbers are vastly shrank. Also, senators, now finally got rid of the Sith and Jedis, don't want to relinquish the control back to them. So now our version of the Jedi order (which Ben never destroyed and Luke never abandoned) is much more smaller than before and restricted by law and mostly neutral. Jedis are no longer generals in the Republic armies. They no longer travel around autonomously and give orders. They are no longer ambassadors, they are a bit like Samurai in Meiji restoration. Thus Luke cannot take a side in the coup, but he can send a padawan in secret to aid Ben. This can be Rey. So now at least our version of Rey has a proper training.

Now back to Ben. He is not secretly or openly evil. He is not hearing voices in his head. And absolutely he does not worship Darth Vader. He is a real hero. He thinks his father and mother are heroes. He thinks Luke is a hero.

But by the end of the first film, he has lost faith in the Senate. Our good boy Ben is turning into despair. But he is not and won't be becoming Sith. I think they had to show the viewer that dark side is not all about Sith.

And the important thing is that Ben would be right about many of the Republic’s problems: The Senate really is corrupt. The "New" Republic really is slow. Some politicians really are protecting Imperial sympathizers. Some neutral admirals really are cowards. The government really is failing to defend people.

Ben’s transformation from good to "bad" would be his solution. During the second film, Ben starts believing that the Republic needs a temporary dictatorship. But not a Sith Empire nor a monarchy. Not even a permanent military state, at least in his own mind. He is more like a space Franco.

He believes the Republic needs fifteen or twenty years of hard rule to remove the old Imperial networks, destroy corruption, rebuild the military and create stable institutions. After that, he says and he truly believes, democracy can return.

So our version of Ben does not think he is replacing Palpatine. He thinks he is correcting Palpatine’s mistakes. He does not hate Palpatine, he believes Palpatine was the result of the corrupt Old Republic and even corrupt old Jedi older.

Ben would read Palpatine’s speeches, private writings and political studies. Not because he admires the Sith, but because Palpatine understood how the Republic worked. Palpatine knew how senators could be bought, how fear could be used, how crises could be controlled and how institutions could be made dependent on one man.

So our Ben starts by studying him as the bad guy of the near history. Then he starts agreeing with him. But of course Ben would still hate the Empire’s racism, mass murder and pointless cruelty. He would see himself as more moral than Palpatine. And that is exactly what would make him dangerous. (man i've written so long i should have written this in word i am afraid of losing all these due to a stupid browser error... ctrl+a ctrl+c I still won't use word as we all know, the real thrill in writing of coding is living with the risk of losing the latest process that can be easily solved by proper backups... anyway..)

Ben would say Palpatine was correct that the Senate was broken, but wrong to build the state around himself and on Sith. Ben would want a disciplined system that could survive without a Sith ruler. He would say, “Someone has to make decisions for the good of people."

Ben wouldnt arrest political opponents. He would investigate possible collaborators. The Senate would stay but Ben would be, I mean, this Ben is more a Caesar: He is our version of Octavius.

Every step of Ben takes would sound temporary, would sound reasonable.

Back to Jedis, I want to explore it a bit deeper now. Ben would not touch them too. Luke and a few jedis are rebuilding the school. The entire Jedi Order disappears again was one of the worst choices in the sequels. We already know some Jedi survived Order 66. Luke could have found some of them. Others could have returned after the fall of the Empire. There could also be Force users who never joined the old Jedi Order. They would not be as powerful or respected as the old Order. Luke would be trying to build something new, not simply copying the prequel Jedi. Thus our Jedis remain officially neutral in the Republic crisis. Not because they don't want to but because people don't trust them anymore and senators as i said don't want them. And they are weak.

Luke surely is not comfortable with this, but he is limited. So he sends one padawan (who is Rey what a surprise), as an observer or negotiator, to help Ben’s fleet. Rey still could be Palpatine’s granddaughter, I think it is unnecessary but I am fine with it. I am not sure if she know who is her grandfather but maybe Luke can now it. He is a mighty Jedi right, ya, he should know about it. Ancestry matters but it is not destiny, that suits well to Luke. His father was Anakin anyway.

Thus, Rey and Ben would be the main good characters in the first film.

Ben has military experience. She has Jedi training. Ben is practical and impatient. Rey is more cautious and still has trust in the new republic. Thus they work well together and be friends and anyway I think they already knew each others. This is the first movie. No Snoke or other kind of weird fetish stuff.

In the second film, Ben becomes the central political figure in the Republic. He has defeated major coup forces. He has saved several systems. He is popular with soldiers and ordinary citizens. He has power. I dunno. This should be different than what Palpatine did in the prequels. So I don't want to see Ben manipulating senators or granted exceptional powers. This version of Ben is not Palpatine. He is a powerful officer and this Ben will defeat the coup guys and he will have his own coup instead of a Palpatine-style takeover. He is Julius Caesar in this sence.

Rey starts seeing what Ben is becoming before anyone else does. She believes “You are not fixing the republic. You are replacing it with yourself.”

AND this is where Darth Plagueis could enter the story.

Instead of bringing Palpatine back again, Plagueis could have survived in some hidden form. Maybe his species lives for a very long time or his experiments allowed him to preserve his body. Maybe he has spent decades hiding in the unknown regions, rebuilding his strength and waiting.

But Plagueis should not be the final villain. The audience will think he is but he won't. This sequel should not be a copy paste of the previous ones. (ARE YOU STILL READING THIS!?!? if so please be kind to me in comments, I've spent hours in writing this)

So Plagueis should appear in the second film (it is hard to write his name i copy paste it lol). Plagueis sees Ben as the perfect future Sith. Ben is a military hero, politically powerful, angry at democracy and convinced that only he can save the state. Thus Sith lord tries to recruit Ben.

As I said, the audience would expect the usual Star Wars story. Ben becomes his apprentice. He takes a Sith name. He gets a red lightsaber. The third film becomes Jedi versus Sith again.

But Ben thinks the Sith are pathetic. To Ben, Sith is a cult. Ben does not believe in Sith, Ben has no desire of promoting the dark side even thou he is probably in the dark by now. Ben hates Sith more than he dislikes the Jedi.

Ben believes he is building something stronger. Plagueis tells him that he is already walking the path of the dark side but Ben does not care.

Then Ben kills him near the end of the second film. The audience thinks Plagueis is the main villain, then Ben removes him from the story. This is a nice twist I think.

But it does not mean Ben has returned to the light or he rejects authoritarianism: Ben kills Plagueis because Plagueis is an obstacle, a remnant of the past. Ben wants to build a state where the ruler is almost irrelevant because the system itself controls everything. Here we can sense that the "supreme villain" Ben is creating is not a being. It is the state itself.

Plagueis could tell him, “If you kill me, you will take my place.” and Ben answers, “No. I will leave your place empty.” Nice cliche words hehe. Then Ben kills him, returns to Coruscant WITH HIS ARMY. He is crossing Rubicon.

Ben killed the really-really last Sith. Ben defeated the coup. Ben brought peace again. Crime is falling. People are happy. The Republic finally feels safe.

Here as a general, not a senator or president, Ben gives a speech to the people (not to the senate). He says the centuries long Sith threat is over, decades long wars are over, but the weakness that grew is still inside the Republic. Then he announces he has taken the control of the Republic. We see Ben's soldiers arresting senators, taking control of the official budlings, curfew.

That is how the second film ends. The third film would be about defeating Ben’s system (but why?)

Defeating a system that has support and not necessarily evil would be much harder than destroying a cosplay superweapon. Ben’s government would actually work in some ways: Piracy is down. The military is stronger. Corruption trials have removed many guilty senators. Imperial extremists are being hunted. Trade is safer. Some planets genuinely support him. Ben is a dictator but his government should give people real reasons to accept it. (btw as I briefly mentioned above, the new republic is one of the post-imperial independent entities. Not a galaxy-wide federation anymore. But it is probably the biggest one among them by far. Following the fall of the old republic and then the fall of the empire, there should be many many breakaway states. They are not significant in our story but just to remind you guys about current politics of the galaxy).

After the Empire falls, some regions would join the New Republic. Others would become independent. Some would form small federations. Some would become military states. Some would be controlled by criminal groups or corporations. That would make the galaxy feel large again.

The cost is that Senate still exists, but it has no power. Media is controlled. Planetary defense forces are placed under central command. Jedi movement is way more restricted. Fleet officers swear loyalty to Ben. Local leaders who refuse are accused of helping the old coup or Sith supporters.

Yet Ben still says this is temporary. And he probably believes it.

Rey would spend the third film building a real coalition instead of a bunch of Rebels. With the help of Luke, Han, Leila, Lando, and all other connections this resistance would include republic loyalists, neutral fleets, independent states, local defense forces, reformist senators, even former Imperial regions and yes, Jedi who finally understand that neutrality has become cowardice and that the light side of the force always needs its knights (meh meh meh big words).

Our heroes would need diplomacy, not just fighter pilots. Some states would hate Ben but also distrust the Republic. Some would support him because he protects trade or they simply don't care as they are distant. Some would remain neutral until the final film. Some would demand constitutional changes before helping.

The final alliance would only come together because the heroes offer something better than returning to the old corrupt Senate.

They would have to promise a different Republic. More local power. Stronger courts. Civilian control of the fleet. Limits on emergency powers. Real protection against another Palpatine or another Ben Solo. And a united nations of galaxy kind of thing. A galaxy UN of many independent states. Republic in its core is an imperialistic being. It is the British Empire. But now they will have something like EU or UN.

The final conflict could still include a large fleet battle, but it would be a civil war with understandable sides. And Ben’s regime would collapse because his people even his officers stop obeying him. Fleets surrender, switch sides, refuse to fire on resistance ships.

Ben would face the fact that the military he created to serve the state has decided that he is now the greatest threat to the state. But he has passed the point of return. I dislike main characters turning bad and then turning good. This Ben will die as a fallen dictator in prison. He could still fight Rey at the end, but she should not magically redeem him. Because Ben had never became a Sith. He never fully “fell to the dark side” in the classic Star Wars way. There is no good in Ben hidden inside an evil mask waiting to come back.

Ben made political choices. He built a dictatorship. He convinced himself that it was necessary.

If he does not die than he gets arrested. Then he is given a public trial. We can end Ben's story here, I think this is better than death.

That would be the real victory of the trilogy. Maybe Rey can visit him but why'd they let a padawan visit a dictator in prison, I could think on it but i should also work in my real life job so I'll just leave it here.

Btw they could even add some things about Rey's heritage here and there. Like a struggle or self peace. She becomes a Jedi Knight thou. Not the greatest one immediately. Just a young jedi.

This way Luke’s arc would also have a purpose. See? He did not puff away. He would realize that the Jedi cannot hide behind neutrality forever, but they also cannot become Republic generals againThe new Jedi Order would need to defend people without controlling governments. It would need to oppose tyranny without becoming a political police force.

And that way the audience will also see that the dark side is not limited to Sith or is not limited to teachings. Jedis can kill every Sith in the galaxy and some guy would still build an empire. Ben was in the dark withhout yellow eyes, tattoos, red lighsabers, or a badly done cosplay mask lol. He was completely convinced that he is doing the right thing.

Here I would like to explore that was Ben truly in the dark side? I mean... maybe it was the light? This can be argued but It is 1 pm already here.. i have to work.. heh.

So.. “Can a democracy survive after winning the war?”

I've watched all six episodes before watching The Force Awakence in theatre back 2015 but I never been hooked until now after I started watching The Mandalorian recently, I just like exploring the world this way with the slow pace and episodic adventures, getting to know the characters, places and lore without the highstakes. I recently met Ahsoka in 2×5 (I'm familiar with the hype around her back when she debuted in live action) so I decided to go back and watch The Clone Wars and other animated series (at least essential ones before picking up The Mandalorian) can I just watch with release date order or there's a certain order. Also what are other series you would recommend to watch after, i heard great things about Andor (I actually really liked Rogue One) would be really helpful if anyone can help with the watching order.