u/Euphoric-Handle2151

A few veterans have been missing (myself included) some more nitty gritty endgame content for endgame players. Here is one topic I have discussed with a few players, should you put Feast or TTW on your defensive unit?

https://preview.redd.it/aomiitmfjxth1.jpg?width=1215&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae204db8946bc7e1f2011b5b59e21b81d3b27896

Before we look into this I wanted to provide some background info and stats. I don't think they still play anymore, but Goz was one of EN's first mathematical statisticians.

Using their Gacha formula we have the base limited SSR stats of:

1. If you pull 100 times, on average you should get 2 limited SSR copies or 1 copy every 48.6 pulls.
2. If you pull 300 times, on average you should get 1 SSR copy every 44 pulls
3. If you pull 600 times, on average you should get 1 SSR copy every 43 pulls

If you have heard one of these numbers before, it more than likely came from Goz's math.

https://preview.redd.it/n5kpd47rmxth1.jpg?width=2569&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46c5089b93c0ff2225832537274b1d79f6b58ebf

About a year ago, I was debating TTW vs Feast on Discord and Goz commented using math....

Goz Math on Feast vs TTW

Say you have a 30 cards deck, and you cycle it in 5 turns.

--with Feast : you get 2 defenses at 1.60×

--with Twins : you get 2+2.5 defenses at 1×

 

That's 3.2 value of shield for Feast vs 4.5 value of shield for TTW. Twins win.

 

Basically with C the number of turns to cycle the equilibrium point is

2×1.60 = 2+0.5×C

Meaning if you cycle you deck in 2.4 turns or more, then Twisted Twins White gives more shields (assuming no alert).

The Debate Continues....

The math above requires you to keep one variable constant - you will always play Lily's 1 cost defense for shield when it is in your hand. You will never choose to NOT play it.

It is an important detail because you have to think about play style not just pure math. Do you want to always play Lily's 1 cost? If the answer is no, then Feast will provide more shield. Just simply because when you play Lily's 1 cost defense, you get more shield with Feast as her covenant.

Strategy Question for Awakener Gear

In today's Morimens, to help determine the gear you put on your units you really have to think about how fast do you cycle your deck. There are chapter mechanics that add cards to your deck. There are units that generate cards and put them in your deck (Caraboo...) There is now Triangle difficulty where you may enter a boss fight with more symptom cards than you had previously on the old A5 difficulty in DTide. There are enemies that will remove command cards from your deck...

Today's Character Design

It seems like today's awakeners design is either you put them in your team and they are an AFK (away from keyboard) unit like E0 GOgier where you rarely play their cards. Or you go all in like AA GOgier and you prioritize a lot of your arthimetica to cards of this unit.

Which results in these types of discussion of nitty gritty details over covenants and which one is best, kinda disappearing from the community. This is probably why we haven't really had these covenant conversations between endgame players as much as we used to.

What do you think, is there any covenant or gear that you think is unsettled on for a certain unit? Any unit you want to ask the community if X cov is better than Y cov for that unit?

New Statistics

It seems like Ememora has taken my hand calculated stats and automated them with a computer. (https://eremora.com/meta/dzone?season=70&tier=threat-level-ss)

Going forward, rather than taking time to collect the statistics, I will take more time to interpret the data, analyze trends and provide my veteran feedback for what I think is happening in the community. This information you can use a guide to help you with your account building decisions.

New Difficulties

The difficulty levels have once again been changed. S is around the difficulty of the old A5. SS is the new nightmare difficulty. SSS is the new madness difficulty level. One more higher new difficulty level above SSS has been added, Dissolution.

This DTide features Blue Rings and the mobs are fairly challenging. This mixture seems like ring color is not important for most 450 clears. A pattern has emerged where, when the player base views the current DTide as easier (like the last one with Chaos Rings), players choose to play more units with that ring color. When the player base views the DTide as harder, players choose the best units for the wave and ring color is not a factor.

At the time of writing 298 players achieved a score between 460-450.

Last DTide with Chaos rings, around a similar amount of time since the start of the DTide, 208 players achieved a score between 460-450.

Even though players may feel like this DTide feels harder than the last non-bugged Chaos DTide, we collectively are getting better.

Rank SS Meta Teams - DTide 70

You may quickly notice that Arachne and GDoll appear in multiple teams. Your own roster of DTide teams will probably depend on what team gets these two awakeners.

https://preview.redd.it/67crc9kozxsh1.jpg?width=1037&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be42332ae64d7194a0afae14dc4590fcf443f46f

General Building Strategy for DTide

Most of the player base is focusing on 5 solid teams to clear SS. There is a large band of 450 point clears. Once players have a roster with 5 teams that consistently clear SS, they start to add another team or try for a SSS or Dissolution clear.

We see the same pattern happening at the higher difficulties. You can see a band of 500 point clears.  Most old veteran players are focusing on clearing 5 teams at Dissolution difficulty. One of the “newest” accounts in this rank level is Angbak at 390 days. However, most players at this rank have accounts that are older than 600 days. This guide will limit its focus on this small of a group of players with old accounts.

The 5 team strategy for DTide impacts newly released units as most players are unwilling to invest heavily into a new unit. They prefer to keep investing in units they know will perform well. They want to see the long term performance of a unit before they will add a new unit/team into their roster for DTide.

It seems that the next target breakpoint for most players will become 475. At the time of writing, there are too few players with this score to include in this report.

450 Semi-Competitive vs 500 old accounts

Filtering for SS, the top used units are Lemurian. This shows that it is the dependable team to help clear.

Filtering for SSS, the top used units are Saya, Murphy and Vortice.

This shows that at 450 clears, the top meta team is Lemurian.

At 500 clears, the top meta team is Vortice/Saya/Murphy/Salvador.

GOgier – Newly released unit

Most players didn’t end up using GOgier in their clears. A hypothesis of why that was the case was that the last DTide had a bug and was significantly easier than the current DTide. Players couldn’t really test GOgier in the last DTide. They decided to clear the current DTide with units they knew would work well. We have been seeing some of the veteran player base now testing and showing their GOgier AA clears with this DTide on social media, but these players didn’t use GOgier in their actual DTide rank.

What we did see is that GOgier WoD is being used on Kathi. The new meta gear on Kathi is (with at least E3 of GOgier WoD):

https://preview.redd.it/t8aekzdy0ysh1.jpg?width=316&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd7f26e0a633b7c674b2bf373eb679c3a42b4201

Low budget version is:

https://preview.redd.it/p5czjn8a1ysh1.jpg?width=316&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=316a40bcf38076b188f957aa84f1c6baca1f036f

GOgier Teams with him as a support and mostly a PChaos bot

CN: Mainly uses GOgier with Xu as the PChaos ability to play Xu posse turn 1 and 2 greatly helps with clearing mobs.

https://preview.redd.it/j75l7tnc1ysh1.jpg?width=3208&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15e893c4f626d0c05177ad38a4c4d6d80c92c2ca

Note: I'd expect once the player base realizes GOgier is a better unit to use in this team than Karen, this will become one of his main meta teams and the second is below.

EN: Mainly uses GOgier with Mouchette and I want to say that is because of Angbak’s Mouchette propaganda. Angbak was one of the few players to use GOgier to clear Dissolution difficulty in their actual rank this DTide.

https://preview.redd.it/ojo3quwe1ysh1.jpg?width=3124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe92213ae971e5bc7c773521679030e88f434026

GOgier Teams with him as a DPS at AA

You can see that the highly valuable Pollux WoD and the unit Arachne is on the team, plus GOgier is AA. We might not see this team become popular in the meta, unless a lot of player really love GOgier (or borrow him).

https://preview.redd.it/oapcju5j1ysh1.jpg?width=3133&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbb71369dc304c5d3a9c184a4018f4eddd666076

Gogier Recommendation

At the moment, the main recommendation is to pull him to E0 to E3. Most of the clears using GOgier are using him as a PChoas bot and with Death Resistance Gear on him. If you plan to use him as a DPS and not a support, it seems like you will need to pull him to AA (16 total copies).

If you are a Kathi main, pull GOgier’s WoD to use on Kath  - E3 is enough, unless you really love Kathi and want to pull higher.

A new Meta team for Glotan / Doresain has begun to popup

Glotan / Pickman / Dore

https://preview.redd.it/bye0p4tx1ysh1.jpg?width=3182&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88813239824c1bf2f1e7c68b525014d7ae35c358

There are non Dissolution clears that have less investment than the team shown above. I really like this team as it takes two DPSes that the player base has been doomposting about since the new DTide difficulty changes and puts them together on one team.

Rings - Chaos

Sample Size 20 accounts from 450 clears

Players provided feedback to the developers from DTide 68 and as a result the developers made DTide 69 easier.

In the meta, it was drastically noticed that Ring Color came back! We saw a big shift in the use of chaos units of Kathi, Hameln, Ogier, Karen, Doll and Ramona.

Players still aimed for 5 teams to get a score of 450, but there was a much higher variety of teams played. At the time of writing there were 208 players with a score between 460-450 points. There also are more players achieving this score and are not on the leaderboard due to using emergency gnosis.

The top team is 24/Tawil/Gdoll and dethrowned Lemurian (came in second and tied in second). Mouchette was a popular unit to borrow and had two main teams, Mouchette/Glotan or Mouchette/Clementine.

The most popular units to borrow were returned to the ring color and were; GDoll, Mouchette and 24

There is a distinct divide in meta teams for Xu. EN uses Xu/Nymphea teams and CN uses Xu/Caraboo teams.

https://preview.redd.it/bw6mhd41x6qh1.jpg?width=863&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e8d09ba8e715fb6ccb0119ecec38baffb8823b7

Most Popular Units Tier List DTide 69

https://preview.redd.it/uc6xnx54x6qh1.jpg?width=1499&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a8d00876c05d05088ca0e6a0bdda226460ac84e

Most Popular Units - All Time (Last 2 DTides)

https://preview.redd.it/7645mpj8x6qh1.jpg?width=1507&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28f02856482121d74771911c816db231f084443d

Spreadsheet for the Data Nerds

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15xH7jh0It9Je08LXQigPoXxsXgPxIjcPZ6mFjisaBHk/edit?usp=sharing

Let's try discussing the new unit GOgier's kit in more detail.

From Zyocuh's comments on the main sub:
-----------------

Exalt, should generate a little over 110 STR at level 70ish including his wheel

For his 2 cost

1. lets say 450 base dmg at level 70 + vul + 120% crit dmg lets assume around 1485 Corrosion
2. 450 Base + (5 X cost = 40 STR)(SF 10 1.5) 60 STR + Vuln + 240% Crid DMG + E3 3 stacks of undertow 150% = DMG 17,212.5 corrosion still isnt even that much....

150 STR = 35,437.5 corrosion

350 STR = 74,812.5 Corrosion

350 STR without using the X before hand and no undertow would be Corrosion 4,950

if you have 1000 STR, only 1 stack of undertow = 90,382.5 corrosion So if you can get your STR crazy hit the corrosion pops off

There are a lot of up and downs here. You want 3 stacks of undertow if you are going for corrosion build. 3 stacks of under tow means you need to use his 2 cost on 3 seperate turns. Each stack also gives you -1 DRAW. so 3 stacks you are starting a turn with 2 cards making it much harder to get your 2 cost to get that big stack of corrosion.

You also want to use his X cost at 5 arith which is another big ask

It doesn't seem like it will be a walk in the park to get around 1k+ STR but the more STR you get the more lenient you can be with your skills and undertow.

I think the first few turns of a battle will be just survive and stack up then around turn 5+ is when you start popping off big corrosion and holding onto undertow stacks but still, less draw sucks

------------

My Analysis

Strength bot that likes to exalt often. To do so paired with Caro or Ultra (Winkle, Horla).

OE spam is possible because of 100 base aliemus. So if his exalt at 70 gets 110 STR according to the math above, OE should be around 330.

Strength and/or Strike DPS:

Glotan, Lotan, Kathi, Doresain, Daffodil.

Random Thoughts

GOgier's E2 is there for Glotan or Lotan strike triggers. It also opens up design space for strike archetype.

Zyocuh mentioned GOgier's corrosion is smallish. I think that's by design so we can use Dore or Daffodil after applying corrosion and only mostly kill the enemy, but then have a little of the enemy health left over to get the kill with the follow up attack. I kinda just wish Biav worked in something to allow kills to count for the DPS when an enemy has corrosion instead.

GOgier's 2 cost is limited to turn unique, probably to stop Thais cheese. Kinda sad.

His X cost seems like they expect you to build it up with SoulForge 10. The base numbers don't really mean much in today's high health enemy Morimens. I had a video where 3000 strength wasn't enough to help Dore kill a boss life of the old A5. What the heck is 12 strength going to do for madness? For the strength scaling DPS I listed above to actually help them clear madness better, Ogiers X cost should be closer to 50 STR per trigger to do anything meaningful.

His gain 101 shield exalt....it's annoying that the game feels balanced around BAqua 1k shield every 3 turns. What the heck is 101 shield going to do? Even his rouse to gain more shield with defense....It's a lot of arthimetica + his exalt to get around 500 shield, but we can just click a button on BAqua and get 1k shield...

His WOD

Seems like he will require his WOD. But I'm thinking of pulling it for Agrippa in a poison team and making her a DPS.

Any other thoughts you all have when reading his kit?

Ultra Rings
Sample Size 20 accounts from between 460 and 450 score.

Discussion

There was a big shift in the meta this DTide as the entire grading system was changed to include new rewards and difficulty levels.

Ring colors don't seem to matter anymore. There used to be a big shift in the meta with different ring colors in DTide. Now it seems like players are choosing the best units and teams for the wave period. The only meta color shift really noticed is Cassiah. She was played more often in a wide variety of teams for her portrait.

There is a new ice field relic. Most of the units in the ice field caused bleed. At higher difficulty levels, a way to heal in the team is almost always needed to respond to the bleed. A lot of Caro was used in this Dtide.

Five teams to clear nightmare has become the norm. The target score to reach is 450. Going wide and playing 10 teams seems to be not a thing at all. This warrants changing the meta report to focus on 450 clears. Most of the player base is targeting this number. Not many players are trying to go above 450. To obtain a score of 450, players are using multiple strategies - some are doing one wave on madness, some all fives waves are nightmare, etc. It is not a clean 5 clears of 5 waves all on nightmare for all accounts.

Lemurian is still the top selected team with GMurphy/Miryam/Tulu/Goliath. The twins and variations jumps into second place. This is mostly due to players consolidating their teams and putting Pollux and Castor on the same team (Castor used to be used on a variety of different teams in the old meta).

Lotan has skyrocketed in popularity as she does %HP damage with her exalt. Her main team is Lotan/Tawil/Gdoll/ (Faint or 24). This also is the new version of the mono 24 team.

Another new team of Vortice/Murphy/Saya/Salvador has been created.

The most common borrows (during ultra rings) are Vortice, Gdoll and Xu. Not an ultra unit like Castor to take advantage of the ring color like we have seen in the past. The borrows are all about matching the unit to the wave.

Meta Teams

https://preview.redd.it/ws5r12chamnh1.jpg?width=859&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=714714ac80c62f65777d39bda66154a6efb3cca2

Most Popular Units Tier List

https://preview.redd.it/2af23wgkamnh1.jpg?width=1511&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=08f047ba2aa5446b7177355baf4e3a79fda4733f

Spreadsheet for the Data Nerds

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15xH7jh0It9Je08LXQigPoXxsXgPxIjcPZ6mFjisaBHk/edit?usp=sharing

I was looking through some CN (chinese) clears with Caraboo yesterday. This Caraboo / Xu / Faros core team kept popping up.

https://preview.redd.it/rlakr59cd5mh1.jpg?width=1572&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fcd2522e56e1a65bb8177871fbeba3b76f80d95

It's really smart as Faros with her exalt tutor ability, allows you to search and find 3 blessings. Which allows you to get a lot of satiety stacks. Players are getting 30 or even over 40 Satiety stacks in their runs.

https://preview.redd.it/6fufg3v6d5mh1.jpg?width=842&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1cce7c7eef2db85eb633654c4c408f28854400c

In my video on "How to Caraboo" I talked about playing PCaro "close to the sun". Ideally you keep your health very low to maximize crimson furnace gains. You use crimson furnace as a last resort.

I suggested using the new SSR wheel (Soul Synchronization) that has the "celeste" ability baked in to protect you when you slightly miscalculate and would need a deathres trigger. Well the CN players are doing the same thing, but with Celeste instead of the wheel.

As this is the last DTide before the new rules are live, I wanted to take a snapshot of the meta. I am very curious how much this will change when Caraboo is released and when the new DTide rules come online.

A sample size of 25 account clears for both 400 and 425 were used for this meta report. (25 accounts for 400 and another 25 accounts for 425. A grand total of 50 accounts.) I tried to take approximately half from CN accounts and half from non-CN accounts (English names).

DTide 400 - Caro Rings

The following are the top 10 meta teams for obtaining a score of 400.

A variation is a substitute unit in the common version of the team. Example using Faros instead of Tulu in the Lemurian team.

DTide 400 - Popular Units

This Tier List shows the most commonly used units.

https://preview.redd.it/hkiw06634ukh1.jpg?width=1495&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c52fb817daf58b030444fd33ddad9dd37bf46239

DTide 400 - Unit Value

This Tier list shows what units where used to clear the highest waves. Clearing wave 1 is one point, wave 2 is two points....wave 5 is five points.

This statistic will be influenced by the waves of the current dtide. As an example, most players used Lemurian team to clear wave 4.

https://preview.redd.it/7rhhhar44ukh1.jpg?width=1493&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c219611dabbc92e94c5bb8a6a48ad9a31ebd0149

DTide 425 - Caro Rings

The following are the top 20 meta teams for obtaining a score of 425.

A variation is a substitute unit in the common version of the team. Example using Faros instead of Tulu in the Lemurian team.

DTide 425 - Popular Units

This Tier List shows the most commonly used units.

https://preview.redd.it/kjm8892u7ukh1.jpg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ba0d4c5d8e5ca0ce301036a14c47a8e2f8f97ee

DTide 425 - Unit Value

This Tier list shows what units where used to clear the highest waves. Clearing wave 1 is one point, wave 2 is two points....wave 5 is five points. Caro rings and other factors will affect this rating.

https://preview.redd.it/yr94nufy7ukh1.jpg?width=1510&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b643eebbc99524b7d921077b70b75a13685527c6

Discussion

The clear front running team is the Lemurian team for both 400 and 425. Most likely because it is strong team and that there really aren't that many variations to run. This helps to boost it to the top of the meta.

A unit can vary in value to a 400 player versus a 425 player. As an example, Erica to a 400 player is hardly used and is in F tier for value. To a 425 player, Erica is used above average and is in B Tier.

The main Mouchette team in 400 clears is Mouchette / Helot / Thais / Saya. For 425, we can only really say that there are two teams; Mouchette / Helot or a Mono Mouchette (all chaos units) team. If we add up the total number of Mouchette teams it would be in the second spot. But there is a clear divide in 425, about half the teams are mostly Mouchette / Helot and the other half are mostly Mono Mouchette (with a few Mouchette Pontos teams snuck in).

Glotan teams in 400 are very close to Glotan / Ryker / Hameln / Saya. In 425 there is a split between half of the Glotan / Ryker teams are Chaos-Caro and the other half are Chaos-Ultra (most commonly with Cassiah). In 400 clears, most players do not play Glotan Ultra.

Mono 24 isn't really played in 400 clears. In 425 there is this variant that is close to the Xu team and it is 24 / Nymphea / GDoll / Lily. Chinese players do this so that they can run Gelot / Helot / Xu teams.

Tawil in 400 clears has a large variety and there doesn't really seem to be a team she lands in. In 425 clears there are two main Tawil teams, Pandia / Tawil / Nautila / Hameln - (this team seems to require AA Tawil) and Vortice / Tawil / Celeste - (this team runs Tawil as a support at lower enlightens).

Doresain / Pickman teams aren't really played in the 400 clears. In 425 clears, they are a top 10 team.

Daffodil is hardly used in 400 clears. In 425 there is a clear meta team of Daffodil / Ramona / Winkle / Arachne.

Clementine Saya teams are sparse in 400 clears. In 425, they are a main team. Probably because this team requires a well invested Clementine, most of the time AA.

Kathi teams are very different for 400 with a Kathi / Clementine / Horla base and in 425 there is a common Chinese team of Kathi / Ogier / Karen / Jenkin (or variation).

For the Data Nerds - 400 Data

https://preview.redd.it/w0645bp79ukh1.jpg?width=536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=637accaf82e1306af5903d8be2e44a19416bc307

For the Data Nerds - 425 Data

https://preview.redd.it/nk7a0xcc9ukh1.jpg?width=553&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52bfdf8a2c8fea0f8f5536f58e85f07f64871927

Using a sample size of 14 accounts that cleared 425, here is a sample of the most common teams and units.

I am very curious how this will change in V2.6. Here is a snapshot of what the meta is before the new dtide rules. I'll create a similar post for when we get the new dtide.

Meta Teams DTide V2.5

Note: I didn't count the variations the same as the main meta team.

For the units themselves, I calculated:

A) how many times they were used in total (popularity)
B) what waves they cleared were given a value of W1 = 1 point .... W5 = 5 points to determine their value. A unit that was used to clear a higher wave has more value for this stat.

DTide Tier List V2.5 - Popularity
(most played units)

https://preview.redd.it/cwb0et8gukkh1.jpg?width=1499&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=207792d8921c62b80f3d78272e06d46711b5d615

*No one used Uhvash.....

DTide Tier List V2.5 - Value
(units used to clear the highest waves)

https://preview.redd.it/zowgy98pukkh1.jpg?width=1563&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb7e873308573ed1ab596f7212393867a96c2a2d

Again no one used Uhvash.

It is interesting to note that there is a meta shift between Chinese accounts (names) and non-CN.

CN uses more of the Pandia/Tawil/Hameln/Nautila team, the Gelot/Helot team and the Mono Mouchette team.

Non-CN uses more of Vortice/Tawil/Celeste team, Mouchette/Helot team and has a lot of variations on Gelot teams.

If anyone wants to see the numbers:

https://preview.redd.it/za09dusdvkkh1.jpg?width=537&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80b86bf4edfb18dc9d01a6f0be66cb9bc10178a6

Glotan teams for every realm! This video goes over gear and some initial suggested teammates. But she seems like she can fit into a lot of different builds. Lots to explore!

Early Common Teams for Pontos.

Showcase Discard with Cassiah or Discard with Saya.

Small run with Saya team.

Intermediate to Advanced Deckbuilding Guide

Morimens can feel like a blend of an ARPG and a Card Game. How should you build your teams? We explore building like an ARPG vs building like a Card Game.

Saya Teams!!!!

New Team Builds for 2026.

Google Doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HEfWBJqA7c2XgvOM1GvdeVgzIIz4PA3ZmFc_pTCyLXg/edit?gid=0#gid=0