u/Famous-Proposal-3294

Back in the 1990s, we got the early EU comic books, some of them set thousands of years before the films, and one of them is the "Tales of the Jedi" multi-comic series. Here, we are introduced to Ommin, a human Sith affiliated sorcerer and distant descendant of Dark Lord Freedon Nadd, who, like Nadd, ruled over the planet Onderon as its king.

As he got older and used forbidden dark side arts more and more, Ommin began to decay and age rapidly in unnatural ways. To prolong his life and give himself mobility, Ommin created an "exoskeleton" that is a mechanical cybernetics forged out of iron that literally looks like it is weaved in his skin and flesh in various ways, keeping his muscles and body from failing and giving him cohesion and shape. Without Ommin's exoskeleton, he would collapse and die.

In the current Canon era, we see Palpatine return in the Rise of Skywalker. He is horribly disfigured, looks like he is decaying, and has some very huge mechanical device that is hooked up to him that extends up to the ceiling. Rise of Skywalker novels and other material later on says it is called an "Ommin Harness", a type of "mechanical spine" that the original device was constructed and named after Ommin, an ancient Sith king and direct reference to the Tales of the Jedi lore I explained above, (pretty cool to me personally).

Anyways now that you know what an Ommin Harness is, I want to ask: How does it work? It is hard to see in Rise of Skywalker, but it seems to be hooked up to Palpatine's back. When later material and the novelizations clarify this, it is called a "mechanical spine", implying it is hooked to and connected to Palpatine's nervous system and actual spine.

There is also the fact that, now that we know Palpatine's decaying body in TROS is a failing clone body decaying due to the immense dark side power of Palpatine's soul, the Ommin Harness, like its Legends counterpart, seemingly not only gives Palpatine mobility, but it also seems to have vitals that sustain and try to slow down the decay for as long as possible. We even see these fluid vitals and tubes connected to Palpatine's body underneath, and the Rise of Skywalker comic adaptation even shows us a panel of a brief flashback of when Palpatine's clone body was fresh and young but dangered and imperfect and prone to decay, the Sith Eternal began hooking these vital fluid tubes into many areas in his skin and body, before connecting him to the Ommin Harness.

I don't know if the fluid vital tubes are part of the same cybernetics of the Ommin Harness, but in a nutshell we know one thing: That Palpatine's decay was slowed down by vitals, fluid tubes, that are connected to various places in his body, and he has a mechanical spine, (the Harness), connected to his spine in his back and presumbly allows his nervous system to control the Ommin Harness.

So, with that said: I have a question: After draining Rey and Ben Solo of their force energy that allowed to heal himself because they possessed the power of the Dyad: How did Palpatine "disconnect" himself from the Harness?

The novelization says he "released himself from the Ommin Harness", but is that even possible? How can he "unhook" something that is connected to his spine? Could the Harness kind of work like the mechanical arms of Dr. Octavious from Sam Raimi's Spiderman 2 film? The Ommin Harness can hook itself to Palpatine and his nervous system like Octavious and safely "undo" the hooking without any surgical need to?

This question has bothered me. Also, how did Palpatine's fluid tubes that connected to his whole body got gone? They are not seen anymore. Did they just "magically vanish" with the Force from the Force drain sucking of the Dyad? Why don't we see the Ommin Harness anymore when it was literally extends to a large crane in the ceiling that the whole throne room can see?

 Vaneé's ultimate endgame and final goal that drove him throughout Legacy of Vader was to remake Kylo Ren to become the new Darth Vader so that Vaneé can serve him forever. I know this one really well, my question is...how did Vaneé plan on achieving this? Did he stuck to the same plan all along? Or did he have to go through a lot of revisions to his plan to fulfill his endgame for Kylo Ren to become his new master?

We know according to the Free Comic Book Day issue that he knew of Kylo Ren sometime before Legacy of Vader, enough for him to (presumably), set up a whole entrance stone door that can absorb and process the blood of Vader's relatives.

Kylo arrives, Vaneé tests him by sending the Alazmec warriors to see if he is really Vader's heir, the blood of Kylo proves it, and Vaneé seemingly set this all up and knew Kylo was coming, and he offered to show Kylo Ren Vader's past in order to understand how Vader became so powerful.

So he brings Kylo to Tatooine, and then has Kylo set up by luring him to Gardulla's palace, he got captured, and Gardulla and her bodyguard try to torture him by saying "obey" as they electrocute him.

Now, it is never confirmed or said that Vaneé set Kylo up and made a deal with Gardulla and the creature, but it is very heavily implied and all but stated throughout the first 3 issues, and hinted at even more in issue 11 that he set it up, so I am going with this.

Anyways, with that said, how Vaneé managed to even convince and/or recruit Gardulla into this set up is a whole other deal, and it gets weirder concerning Vaneé's motivations in issue 3.

In issue 3, as Kylo gets tortured, (which all seems set up again), Gardulla's advisor and bodyguard said that she made a deal to "break Kylo, not destroy him" and even said "much power and weapons will come to you when you control this one, none if he dies. If he dies, you probably do to". This deal probably came from Vaneé, and I don't understand how Gardulla would fall for this bribe. Interestingly, she seems to be kind of forced to the set up too, as she will die if she kills Kylo Ren.

Regardless of what Vaneé told Gardulla, and how he arranged and set it up, I wonder what his true motivation and purpose to teach Kylo throughout all of this is. The "lesson" Kylo learned at the end of issue 3 the new resolve he got, was it what Vaneé wanted for Kylo? Vaneé says to Kylo, "I feared the worst of the attack on the home of Gardulla the Hutt my prince. I am assumed it was an attack made in retaliation for your death, I should have known better". Was Vaneé just lying, or did he actually fear that Kylo died? It seems more suspicious that as he made this call, he is already waiting for him on Naboo. Why does the saying of "breaking Kylo, but not destroy him", the deal he made with Gardulla, seemingly condradict what he wants to teach Kylo later on?

The themes and what the narrative is trying to implicate in issues 2 and especially 3 confused me, so any clarification, both on Kylo's lesson and resolve and Vaneé's plans there, would be greatly appreciated.

Anyways, moving on, Vaneé and Kylo are at Naboo in issue 4, Vaneé teaches Kylo that Vader's pain and power came from this place and made him rise to greatness was centering his focus on Padme, that would allow him to do anything to make sure she survives, which lead to his power. After battling Storg Veruna, Kylo says to Vaneé that he is wrong about Anakin and Padme, and goes on his own "let the past die" creed and decides to set up a weird game with the Naboo people to make sure they evolve beyond their "past-obssessed culture" by forcing them in a life and threat situation.

That is what he does in issue 5, and somehow, Vaneé was on Naboo apparently the whole time, as the First Order's invasion of Naboo took place four days after Vaneé and Kylo visited Naboo and Kylo went back to the fleet and took it with him to threaten Naboo. Vaneé then tells Kylo that Vader hated himself at first as well, and that Kylo invented crazy reasons to attack the First Order in Naboo because it is the "closest thing he can come to attacking himself". Vaneé then promises Kylo a vault in Fortress Vader on Mustafar, and that he will give it to him when Kylo is ready. Vaneé says to make him "worthy" he must accept his past, because they are the past whether they like it or not, and then says "stop playing these silly games, focus your hate: on an enemy worthy of you".

Kylo, upset, but agreeing, orders Vaneé to find him an enemy, which is where issue 6 comes in. Apparently, Vaneé sent his "agents" to uncover traces of a Jedi, and they "confirmed the report". Vaneé has agents? Who are these "agents"? Is it some secret network or something like that?

Anyways, in issue 7, Kylo confronts this Order 66 survivor, Grandea, (who is a fascinating subject I want to discuss for another post), and he fails to kill her, (if she was real that is apparently), and we never see the follow up. We don't see what Kylo was like when he returned to Vaneé, and if Vaneé planned or expected this to happen.

By issue 10, Kylo visist Fortress Vader, shackled by the revelation that Luke Skywalker is dead as told by Grandea and he can feel his Force ghost watching him. He and Vaneé are back at Fortress Vader to discuss this, (for some reason), and he asks Vaneé for advice, to which the servant admits he doesn't know, but then Kylo points out that sometimes, he acts like there is everything he needs to know about Vader, but sometimes, he claims to be an innocent ignorant servant, making Kylo seemingly suspicious. He then orders Vaneé to bring him to Vader's vault, (which he seemingly seemed to ignore after issue 7 and with Vaneé until now), and Vaneé seems okay and content to bring Kylo there despite what we were previously told.

Kylo enters the vault, seemingly comes back out on the other side, threatens Vaneé with death, and Vaneé says "The vault decides who enters it! The decision...is not up to me!" He then goes on to say that there is another way to gain what he seeks, and takes him to a meditation sphere, claming Vader meditated there when he required "clarity", and that Kylo might find the answer he seeks.

Kylo goes through a weird Force phase, gets injured, and is at the mercy of Vaneé, who seems to be shocked and says "My prince! What have you done to yourself!? It seems you have fought a mighty battle. I am sure your grandfather would be proud. I hope you found the answers you sought. But let us put that aside for now. Focus on yourself, on healing." As he puts Kylo in a bacta tank, Vaneé says to Kylo: "Everything will be all right now...you are just where you need to be".

In issue 11, Vaneé seemingly acts more villanous torwards Kylo, kind of making me wonder why he expressed shock at the end of issue 10. He then says that in order for Kylo to achieve greatness like Vader, he must "die" and that "death is part of the journey". He then injects Kylo with a serum that puts him to sleep, (is it just for that? Make Kylo fall asleep? I thought it was going to be a factor in remaking Kylo into Vader, but let's move on), and when Kylo wakes up, he is on a platform table slowly being lowered into lava, and Vaneé says to him that he will be slightly burned, because it was an important part of "Vader's ascendance", and that he needs to experience it.

Kylo breaks free, chases Vaneé, Vaneé makes his big monologue, and when Vader's old servant accept his fate and lets Kylo come to him, Kylo asks Vaneé if Vader's vault was real or if it was another trick to make him Vaneé's new master. Vaneé, seemingly honest, says "How should I know? He never let me see what was inside", implying Vaneé did not know truly what the vault is, what purpose it served, and he seemed humble and honest in that moment.

So what was the point of Vaneé promising Kylo the vault back in issue 5, make him go through all of these "tests" and "trials", and says to Kylo that the "vault decides who opens it" and then proceed to lead Kylo into the meditation sphere, were he got injured by monsterous vision and then Vaneé tries to fry him? Did Vaneé anticipate and/or know and plan what was going to happen to Kylo in the meditation sphere, or was he actually shocked, hence why he says "My prince! What have you done to yourself!"? Yet, in issue 11's solicits, and the preview text for issue 11, it says his "unhinged/sinister plans are finally coming together", implying that Vaneé somewhat planned all of this.

So...what was Vaneé trying to achieve in this series for Kylot become his new master? Was he constantly changing plans or was the whole series going exactly as planned until last minute? I don't know.

When Kylo starts killing Vaneé, and proclaims that he did "all of this to make him fulfill his potential" was he lying, telling the truth, or a bit of both? He seems content when Kylo says "I am already everything I need to be!" and even congratulates and praised him before Kylo crushes his head.

TLDR, all of these issues and missing gaps seemingly in Legacy of Vader me me question Vaneé's methods of achieving his ultimate endgame for Kylo Ren. Were things going perfectly as planned all along, or did Vaneé have to constantly change his methods and all of that? Was he aware of whatever the meditation sphere did to Kylo, or was it shocking to him? Regardless, what is the menaing behind "his sinister plans are finally coming together"?

I love Legacy of Vader but Vaneé was kind of confusing to me in his methods. Any ideas?

Holocrons have been used by many Force based religious orders, especially Jedi and Sith, alike. In Legends/Old EU, Sith Holocrons predated Jedi ones, and are red pyramid like scructures in shape and geomatry. Like almost every other holocrons, Sith Holocrons almost always have at least one gatekeeper, (usually programmed or created to be in the likeness, persona, and appearance of their creator or creators), who are in charge of guiding the user who unlocks their holocrons and give them knowledge or not as they please.

Gatekeepers, specifically and especially ones made for Sith holocrons, have always been an enigma to me...are they a portion or sliver of the legit spirit or essence of the creator imbued in the center crystal of the holocron that appear as ghostly holographic manifestations? Or are they some veryd advanced AI, whether pure technology or imbued with the Force, that are NOT the legit spirit of the creator?

In Book of Sith in Legends, Sorzus Syn, one of the very first Sith Lords of the Sith Order in all of history, says in her journals and texts: "To navigate a holocron's secrets, one must speak to its gatekeeper-a holographic echo of the device's builder that retains a measure of the builder's spirit." She also says later on in the same page, "The central crystal is the color of smoke, and is both a power source and a repository for the gatekeeper's date ghost. This capstone must be etched with the builder's spirit in a Force ritual called the Rite of Commencement. Destruction of a capstone will release its gatekeeper, and one would be wise to flee rather than face down a vengeful specter."

All of this implies there is some form of genuine spirit etched in the gatekeeper of the Sith holocron, so much so that it is even stated that a "vengeful specter" will be released and could cause harm without being contained in a Sith holocron.

But...there are...other conflicts. There are indeed some Sith who not only imprint their essence or cognitive being into the gatekeeper of the holocron they made, but they also put their entire essence/spirit in it after death, (Darth Andeddu is an example). But these things are rare. Most of the time, according to the Darth Bane novels, it seems like the gatekeeper's entire existence is dependant on the preservation of the holocron they are in, and when the holocron is destroyed, they vanish too. Darth Revan's holocron is one example, and Revan's gatekeeper got destroyed when the holocron got destroyed by Bane.

This is in direct condradiction to what Syn said in Book of Sith, where the data ghost/gatekeeper is seemingly independant without the holocron.

Also, there is another weird thing. In the three volume books released in 2008, "The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia", it implies something weird too. According to those books, Darth Krayt consulted with many ancient Sith spirits and they rejected him, "among those insulting spirits was Darth Bane" according to Krayt's encyclopedia entry. This seems to be a reference to the scene in Star Wars Legacy issue 5, where Krayt summons the gatekeepers of Darths Nihilus, Anddedu, and Bane from their respective holocrons. To be honest, they seem to be mere gatekeepers and nothing more, yet Krayt got attacked by them or one of them that caused his armor to grow before he closed the holocrons again.

Later in the same series, when Andeddu was resurrected when his holocron was placed down on his mummified corpse, he reveals to Darth Wyrrlock that he was not a mere "gatekeeper" but the legit real "spirit" of the real Andeddu that needed to be placed on the holocron to revive himself. This implies that the One Sith and Krayt treated them as mere holocrons and nothing more. Andeddu and Wyrrlock's wording also seem to be imply that Andeddu was a unique case.

So how come Darth Bane was called a "Sith spirit" when it is just a holographic gatekeeper? Is something going on here? To be fair, the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia gets mushy and shady in how "canonically reliable" the information is when they misnitepret and/or condradict what the previous lore and stories show, and some of their information themselves gets condradicted later, but still, it is something worth noting.

So in general, are gatekeepers of Sith holocrons legit ghosts or no? Are the holocrons themselves and/or the gatekeeper capable of using the Force or being connected to it or is it adanced machinery and AI? Or could it be both together? Regardless, most of the time is the gatekeeper a sliver of the legit creators' spirit, or is it an advanced AI that may or may not be connected to the Force? Also, what about Sorzus Syn's texts that seem to imply otherwise?

In issue 10, Vaneé leads Kylo Ren into Darth Vader's mysterious and creepy vault deep within Fortress Vader. Kylo then proceeds to walk into the vault and we see very, very weird zig-zags and warped panels that focus on Kylo Ren in the issue, and then he loops back around at the end of these strange panels and finds himself back outside of the vault with Vaneé waiting for him.

In the next panel, we see Kylo Ren seemingly back outside and being rejected by the vault, hence why he is so mad at Vader's old servant and threatens to kill him. Vaneé then leads Kylo to a meditation sphere Vader had in the castle where Kylo meditates to consult with his grandfather for clarity. Kylo then finds himself in a weird nightmare swamp-like plane where he sees frightening visions.

He then goes to what is seemingly the Light Netherworld of the Force to meet with Luke, ends up back at the dark hellish swamp, a presumed anthropomorphic embodiment of the dark side itself or Kylo's inner darkness then whips him with a lightsaber, it somehow affected Kylo in the real-world, where he is all injured, broken, and slashed. Vaneé disrobes Kylo, puts him in a bacta tank, and then injects him with some serum to put him to sleep temporarily, Kylo wakes up, almost gets fried by lava from Vaneé in just boxers while being slightly cooked in the process, escapes, chases Vaneé, gets slightly more injured and scarred along the way by dark troopers, defeats them by getting an old Jedi lightsaber in his hand and bleeding the crystal, catches up with Vaneé who accepts his fate, and then kills the old servant.

Throughout the end of issue 10 and all of issue 11, Kylo lost his robes, (which were heavily ruined and slashed by the dark being's lightsaber and disrobed from him when at the mercy of Vaneé), and even lost his lightsaber, (where did Vaneé put it?). He then gets slightly fried nearly naked, is cooked with a bunch of burns on his skin, gets slightly more injured by the dark troopers, and gets a new lightsaber that he bleeds to destroy them. Kylo keeps this new lightsaber, (because where the hell did Vaneé put his original crossguard one?) and kills Vaneé in a creative manner.

After dealing with Vaneé, a voice calls to Kylo from Vader's vault, and he goes inside and issue 11 ends.

Look at how ruined and dirty and injured Kylo is when he enters the vault, and he still has that new lightsaber he got

In issue 12, the finale, we see Kylo back in the vault, this time in some sort of weird-dream-like state of existence and mindscape, as seen here.

He has his old lightsaber back and looks clean and has his outfit back

Kylo Ren in the mindscape and weird-reality that is being simulated to him with Vader's vault has him completely okay again, the new scars and slightly fried skin is gone, his hair is clean again, he has his full outfit back on him again with no damage, and he has his old lightsaber back and his new temporary one is somehow gone.

Now, when I first read this, it didn't bother me. This IS a mindscape and vision after all. I always presumed he still looks like what he did at the end of issue 11 and he is just simulating himself looking like what he thinks of himself in the mindscape. But the END of issue 12 and now the beginning of Fall of Kylo Ren's pages preview is unsettling me.

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After the reveal that Kylo is not dueling Vader but rather Ben Solo, (whom I believe is his legit "future" self/spirit after TROS, pretty cool huh?), the Ben Solo apparition snaps his fingers, causing the vault to violently yeet Kylo out of the vault and out of the window into the lava river below outside of Fortress Vader, ending in a pretty big cliffhanger.

Here is what is really unsettling to me though: Why does Kylo Ren still look like in the vault's vision mindscape when he is kicked out? He entered the vault at the end of issue 11 all dirty, bruised, and injured in only boxers and a new lightsaber, and now he has his full outfit back, his new injuries are gone, he is clean, and he has his real lightsaber back! What is going on here? This leads me to several scary thoughts and ideas:

Is...it possible that most of isseu 10 and all of issue 11 are not and were never real? I found a YouTuber who was reviewing the issues and he seems to think it is a similar case too. I mean, let's go back to issue 10....

What exactly is going on inside here? Is it possible that Kylo...never left?

Look at the way these panels are being framed: It looks like Kylo's freaking mind and perception of what is real or not is mixing, blurring, and unraveling. I could be misintepreting the panels here, but that is what I got after constantly rereading the issues 10 11 and 12. He SEEMINGLY does arrive at the other side as if the vault rejected him and he sees Vaneé and all, but then when Vaneé takes Kylo to Vader's old meditation sphere and Kylo mediates inside, he literally finds himself ina very vivid simulated reality, almost another plane of existence, in a hellish-swamp/bog. There, he manages to use his inner power to go to the Netherworld, and when the robed demon slashes him with a lightsaber, Kylo is back to "reality" but he is slashed, injured, and affected by all of this.

I fail to see how a mere meditation sphere can do this

We then go to Kylo at the mercy of Vaneé and the whole events of issue 11, yada yada yada, with Kylo hearing a voice coming from the vault again and he reenters in, and is back to his form when he first entered the vault in issue 10's beginning. If Kylo is back to his form that he was when he first entered the vault in issue 10 and still looks the same when Ben Solo kicks him out of the vault into the lava lake outside of the castle, I wonder...maybe the whole entire events of issue 10 and 11 where Kylo's mind simulating what appears to be reality in those issues is fake and a very existential warping of Kylo's perception of reality? And he was actually in the vault the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME until Ben Solo finally kicked him out?

This would make sense to me. However...it kind of cheapens the impact and coolnes of issues 10 and 11. If Kylo was just simulating all of this in a weird Forcy way in the vault, that means that....Vaneé never actually died? Is Vaneé still waiting for Kylo to come outside the vault? That seems also kind of a stretch to me...why bother showing an epic conclusion to Vaneé's story if it isn't even real? Also, Ben Solo's ghost says to Kylo Ren in issue 12, "There is nothing left in this castle for you to kill or take", implying Kylo did kill Vaneé. There is also the fact that in issue 12's beginning, Kylo says, "I was offered power!" and the "Vader" apparition says "By who the servant? He had none to give", implying more that issues 10 and 11 actually happened.

So if this can't be the case, then I have another theory: Issues 10 and 11 DID happen for real, but Kylo is still trapped in the vault and Ben Solo did not actually yeet him out of the vault. Kylo is still trapped in the vault and is simulating himself finally getting out...but he did not.

But then....how will he get out and will this ever be clarified? Fall of Kylo Ren issues seem to imply that Kylo was actually kicked out of the vault, and he has his clothes kind of torn, but not on the level it was in issue 10 when he got slashed, plus his face and all looks clean and not with new scars, so I dunno.

If neither are true, that means that SOMEHOW Kylo got his injures healed by Force-related stuff in the vault, (except for the scar he got from Rey for some weird reason), and he got cleaned by the Force, was given new identical clothes to what he last worse, and his new lightsaber transformed into his crossguard lightsaber, (does that mean there is ANOTHER crossguard lightsaber of Kylo Ren, the original one, still somewhere in the castle?!) I dunno, this all seems weird.

TLDR, Kylo Ren lost his ruined outfit in issue 10, got stripped down to only boxers, his crossguard lightsaber was lost, he got nearly fried and is kind of "sunburned" he got dirty as he chased Vaneé, got a few new injuries and scars from Dark Troopers, got a new lost Jedi lightsaber and bled the crystal to destroy the troopers and kept it with him when killing Vaneé, and then enters the vault at the end of issue 11 in his ruined state and with his new lightsaber and in issue 12 the vault or its power apparently somehow undid all of the "edits" Kylo went through in issue 10 and 11.

Anyone have any theories/ideas/speculation? I hope someone does read the whole post and try to come up with the best answer they can, this has really been bothering me and made me go to existential thought concerning Kylo in the last issues of LOV and how this will apply to Fall of Kylo Ren, if at all.