Random thought just hit me. Luke and Leias pregnancy seemed to be a surprise. One would think a senator of Padmes level would have easy access to the best birth control. She doesn't seem the type that would abstain from birth control in a passionate moment given what would be on the line. So did it fail? Or did the force make it fail? Curious on thoughts and i doubt it's been covered anywhere in legends.
Both C3PO and R2D2 are seen in Star Wars behaving as if they have mental states of their own and personalities of their own. But what if they are so called "philosophical zombies" which is a concept in the philosophy of mind where somebody has the exact same behavior and physical components as a conscious being but yet has no true inner experience. By "inner experience" I simply mean "first person perspective". Is there "something it is like" to be droids in Star Wars or do they just behave from the third person perspective as if they have consciousness but without any first person perspective.
This question is closely related to a question I have previously asked this subreddit whether there are souls in Star Wars or not. Presumably droids would not have souls right? And the concept of a soul is closely tied to consciousness.
But from a narrative standpoint it would seem rather strange if C3PO and R2D2 did not really have any true emotions or intentions. Basically my question phrased in overly fancy terms is what is the ontological status of minds in Star Wars? What is Star Wars' view on the philosophy of mind?
EDIT: I understand that they behave as if they have pain and emotions and so on. I under they have what is called "functional consciousness" in philosophy of mind. They behave and react to stimuli and have a bunch of computational power. What I am asking is if they have "phenomenal consciousness" which is just the pure "first person perspective". I am not asking about their behavior or capacity for "intelligence" I am asking if they genuinely have an inner life. And if they have that then why would they have that? At what point do they get phenomenal consciousness? This is a philosophical issue in real life as well of course but considering that Star Wars literally has magic in it I think it would not be so implausible from an in universe standpoint to think that droids would not be conscious considering they have no access to the force.
This shall be more of a rant, and shall begin in saying that the GAR in general, and almost every army in Star Wars too, are also a mess, they have obvious glaring irregularities in structure and organisation visible to some sub-sects of fans, which obviously originate in Lucas and most SW writers, knowing nothing or next to nothing about military organisation.
The 501, however due to its status as the most famous unit, and the one which follows Anakin and Ahsoka, thus being the one each budding SW creative wants in their film, show, book, comic etc etc, is the worst affected.
I shall present these irregularities in a tiered fashion ordered to their most glaring irregularities.
**1) The lack of an outright appropriately ranked CO**
We see in numerous forms of media that the 501 is effectively commanded by Rex despite him being just a captain, the Doylist answer for this is that Lucas wanted an Alpha-17 esque companion and settled on Rex for a name which sounds better accompanied by Captain than any other rank, however taking this within the Lore presents glaring irregularities, the 501 is a legion, which are established in lore to be commanded by a Jedi General and Clone Commander, not only that as a legion it consists of 4 Regiments also commanded by Clone Commanders, which then consist of 4 battalions each commanded by Clone Commanders, this makes the total commander billet count up to 1 Legion Commander, 4 Regimental, and 16 Battalion (this is hand waving away any Staff Officers the Legion/Regiments/Battalions would have irl, but lack again due to SW writers not knowing anything about military organisation or operations).
This would make Rex (assuming that he is the most senior company commander in the entire 501, of which when you do the math there are 64 of keep in mind) makes him the 22nd (21 Billets for Commanders) in line to assume command, now obviously battlefield promotions and casualties exist, and historically in wartime, it is possible to see some units led by men ranked at lower rank than typically, but this is always a temporary solution until an appropriately ranked CO can be bought in (or in the 501’s case 21 of them) or the temporary CO is formally promoted to fill the role, in the British and Commonwealth Armies, the position of a Brevet rank exists for exactly this sort of thing, but again in the context of wartime, they are almost always temporary.
So why then, does the Company Commander of Torrent Company also command all 9000 men in the entire legion, this would create massive implications for the effectiveness of the entire unit, Rex being at the heart of the action with his company cannot possibly effectively command the force placed under him, and the various CO’s under him can definitely not expect to be able to effectively report to him when he is at risk of death in company level actions, in real life I would point to the example of Colonel H. Jones VC of 2 Para in the Falklands, who in the battle of Goose Green, charged an enemy machine gun position and died in what despite being an effective and successful action in destroying the machine gun post, almost had disastrous implications for his battalion in losing the lynchpin of their CO, 2 Para ultimately recovered thanks to the leadership of their 2ic, a Major, but the risk in higher ranking officers getting involved is clear, as is the comparison to Rex’s style of frontline leadership, it makes him suited perhaps to being his Jedi General’s favourite clone officer and friend, but not to effective command and control.
In Legends, the existence of Appo (Legion Commander), Vill (1 of 4 Regimental Commanders, and Bow (unspecified billet) made the 501 less messy, but as seen in canon, writers made the quite frankly weird decisions to make Appo a Sergeant on Umbara and Bow a Lieutenant in his canon appearance (Vill has never appeared in canon), this decision not only stripped the 501 of an outright stated CO, but also made Appo’s path to Commander which he holds in ROTS incredibly convoluted, some offer the theory that Rex can’t be commander because of Ahsoka, we see this disproven twice, Barriss and Gree presumably both serve as Commanders under Unduli without any issue, and after we see Ahsoka leave, we still see Rex remain a Captain despite her non-existence within military operations, some others offer the theory that Rex is the overall CO because of his background as a first generation clone, battle experience, arc training, etc etc, but regardless of all of his background, accolades, achievements etc etc, being CO but not Commander is something that (if we suspend our disbelief as this being a work of fiction) be highly irregular.
**2) Lack of a definitively stated Corps, Sector Army or System Army it is attached to**
The GAR, like most real life militaries, is established as having command sized organisations in it’s structure which it’s other smaller sized units are attached to, the 501 however is never truly mentioned as being part of such structure, in fact, some sources outright state it was an independent unit which would be highly irregular, writing it as such fundamentally misunderstands the reason for similar real life structures, these structures have massive impacts on command and control, coordination, logistics, if they are an independent unit, who decides what front they are sent to, how long they stay, where they get ammunition from etc etc, the most plausible answer to me for this question is that they are part of 7th Sky Corps like the 212th, which is part of the 3rd Systems Army, this makes sense to me when the 3rd is commanded overall by Kenobi and Cody who are nominally the closest to the 501’s onscreen representation in Anakin and Rex, I’d guess Anakin became accustomed to them as a padawan serving under Kenobi and when knighted chose them as his personal unit.
**3)Lack of a defined Role**
In appearances, we see the 501 fulfil primary roles that can be defined as Armoured Infantry, Light Infantry, Air Assault, Special Operations (albeit only a few shown on screen who are not Rex, Echo, or Fives) and Jetpack Troopers (who I perhaps would put in Air Assault),a multi role unit in and of itself is not a huge irregularity, it could be that when we see these roles represented on screen we are seeing other parts of the 501, it is after all, a massive unit made up of 4 regiments and 16 Battalions, even today, there are militaries with existing regiments that have certain battalions with different roles, take the Royal Canadian regiment, that has two regular mechanised battalions and 1 regular Light/Airborne battalions (although the airborne element is limited to a company).
But to cover such a vast amount of roles as the 501 is a bit too irregular, it is a massive organisation, but considering we see our main cast of Torrent company clones performing next to all of them, leads one to believe that it is presented as the entire legion being capable, which even despite all the clones knowing since birth would be completely entirely un-maintainable from a training, logistics and command standpoint, I would recommend the book Defeat Into* Victory by Field Marshall Slim which touches on this, specialisation can and does lead to units losing skills basic soldiering and in their primary role/roles in our real world, which again suspending disbelief in Star Wars as a fictional setting, would translate there too, as the old adage says, Jack of all trades, master of none.
Ardus Kaine created the Pentastar Alignment and ruled it as a dictator to enforce the ideals of the New Order, which included humanocentrism and the belief the Empire presented a strong unifying solution to the decadence of the Old Republic.
Yet, the Pentastar Alignment is technically an Imperial splinter state, with Ardus Kaine even allowing aliens to serve in the Alignment's Pentastar Patrol, their naval branch. Which makes his actions hypocritical.
In short, the irony of the Pentastar Alignment is that it claims to be a bastion against anarchy, yet is a rogue Imperial state formed by a Grand Moff who deserted the Empire in its darkest hour. Betraying its ideals of xenophobia and unity to fulfill his own ambitions.
Assuming the massacre, the death of his mother, and his anger towards the Jedi and Obi-Wan were enough to cause Anakin to fall to the dark side and become a "dark Jedi," What would change in the story? Would Palpatine go after him?
I'm making a star wars book and need a empty planet that can be colonized/ turned into a base. Anything come to mind?
Hello, this is my first post in this subreddit (and on Reddit in general) and I was wondering, given that the Empire is partly based on fascism, which often has a corporatist economy, I wondered if the Empire also governed based on that economic model
Do not confuse corporatist economy with corporatocracy (corporate rule)
The mainstream fandom has built this myth that Vader is an unstoppable, flawless god. People get blinded by cool hallway scenes and completely ignore the actual lore and context established by George Lucas and the official canon. Post-Mustafar Vader is a tragic, heavily crippled cyborg in a clunky suit that severely limits his speed and agility. He is powerful, yes, but he has massive, exploitable flaws.
Don't get me wrong, I’m being realistic here. I wont glaze Maul either. If you ask me who wins between Prime Maul and Mace Windu, Mace claps Maul in 30 seconds flat. Windu is the ultimate anti-Sith weapon because of Vaapad; he literally redirected Palpatine’s own darkness back at him. Windu would dismantle Vader without problems too.
Here is the objective breakdown:
The only reason people think Vader is on a completely different level is because of the Maul — Shadow Lord series finale ending. But look at the actual context. When they crossed paths, Maul was exhausted from back-to-back fights and actively struggling on a damaged cybernetic leg, which completely nerfs his acrobatic fighting style. Meanwhile, Vader was 100% fresh, fully supplied, and entered the fray backed by intel on Maul's specific weaknesses from the Inquisitors.
If anyone wants to argue this is just headcanon, Sam Witwer literally confirmed this breakdown in an interview with Star Wars News Net right after the finale. Witwer explained that Maul’s cheap, low-budget mechanical legs completely disrupt his kinetic chain from the ground up, destroying his ability to "coil like a snake and strike" the way he used to. He explicitly stated that Maul’s strength relies entirely on agility and that he simply didn't have the striking power to clash blades directly with a brute-force machine like Vader while suffering from those leg malfunctions. Vader didn't win because he's a superior warrior; he won because he ruthlessly capitalized on an opponent who was already heavily nerfed and running on empty.
Vader is the ultimate enforcer and a terrifying bully to average Jedi, but against top-tier, high-speed elites who actually understand the dark side, his lack of mobility makes him incredibly vulnerable.
This question is mostly related to lightsaber dueling.
When do Sith Lords practice dueling?
During the clone wars, Sidious and Dooku didn't have a lot of time on their hands to practice against each other. Dooku actively fought Jedi masters so he surely wasn't rusty.
But when and how did Sidious practice? What if he out of practice when he faced the Jedi masters? If that is true, imagine how great he would be if he was on the top of his game. :)
I theorize the timeline where Obi Wan theoretically would've had a chance defeating sidious in ROTS. I have some possible points that could point to a possible win if said scenario happened. Chance he loses and chance he could've come out winning. Pros: Able to beat maul's aggressional forms and Anakin's while countering Anakin's Advanced Form 5 use. Defeated Grievous 1v1. little less perfected but cuts pretty close to almost mastering form 4 if he channeled it efficientely as it makes offense perfect if he ranges effectively with form 3 perfected being the defense form. Only reason I'd see where loss has a bit of risk is getting his ass beat by jango and seemingly couldn't beat dooku using a mastered Makashi user. thats just about all i got that points to reason the fight drops pretty quick in this. I mean I weigh out like 50/50 coin toss in this if chance he actually did win.
In Revenge of the Sith when Palpatine is executing order 66 he seems to be containing each clone Commander individually as he seems to call them by name. Why on earth did he do this? Wouldn’t this just be a huge waste of time considering he would have to contact probably thousands if not tens of thousands of clones in a relatively short span of time. Couldn’t he have just connected the order to a button or something?
WEG developed a sliding scale of 1 (fast) to increasing numbers (higher is slower) with the falcon having a 0.5 hyperdrive. This is due to a throwaway line in ANH "she'll make point 5 past lightspeed."
Now, IRL it was just a throwaway line to show the falcon was fast, and Lucas had no underlying worldbuilding.
But given that Lucas was kinda a gear head, and the falcon was sorta looked at as a hot rod (kinda like how old moonshine smugglers would use hot rods to smuggle moonshine) i think the "past point 5" could have been interpreted better than "a .5 class hyperdrive.
Think about it, in the world of street racing (especially in the 70s with Detroit Iron muscle cars) a common rating of how fast a car is (when bragging) is saying its quarter mile time. Now often racers dont say "she can go a quarter mile in 13.1 seconds ( what a 70 hemi cuda ran in 1970)....but they will say "she can run a quarter mile in under 13 seconds"....but often will shorten it to "she can run less then 13 seconds."
So, given the context, it very would could have been interpreted that "point 5 past lightspeed" wasnt listing the class of hyperdrive, nor was it listing "she can go times 0.5 past the speed of light" but more saying "she can run .5X past lightspeed Y", where X is a measurement of an unspecified time and X is an unspecified length of lightspeed."
Sure, it was quicker and easier for WEG to just say "well, he said point 5 and lightspeed so thats the class of the hyperdrive" however I think it would have been a better service (and honor the fact that Lucas was a big gear gead and some of his ideas about the hero ship came from automotive enthusiasts culture) to put just a tiny bit more thought into it and "hot rod" it up a bit.
Yes I know Im like 40 years too late to change WEG mind over it and that the hyperdrive classes are ingrained into star wars canon and most SW ttrpg games outside of homebrewing....but rewatching ANH I was wondering if anyone had any similar thoughts on it.
I know the official explanation is that Order 66 was one of 150 contingency orders for the Grand Army of the Republic, but were the Jedi actually aware of the details behind these orders?
If they knew Order 66 specifically allowed the clones to execute all Jedi for “treason,” why did nobody in the Jedi Order seriously investigate it or question how dangerous that could become? Was the information classified from the Jedi, buried in Republic military bureaucracy, or did the Jedi simply trust the Republic too much by that point?
I know The Clone Wars touched on the inhibitor chips and Fives discovering the conspiracy, but I’m wondering if any canon or Legends media fully explains how much the Jedi actually knew about the contingency orders before Revenge of the Sith.
Even though hes someone whos only been mentioned a handful of times; Tarre Viszla has alot of lore behind him that I think could be interesting to delve into if done right.
Think about it; the first Mandalorian in history to not only be inducted into the Jedi Order but also made his own unique, one of a kind lightsaber that emmits a black blade. His story brings up so many questions that I feel either a novel or preferably an animated miniseries would give alot of room to explore. How did the Mandalorians feel about one of their own having the same abilities of their most oldest enemies at the time? Was Tarre treated as an outcast because of his abilities? Did any of his fellow padawans view him differently? How did he make the Darksaber?
What do you guys think?
While power levels can be all over the place in Star Wars, canon seems to consistently show that even high tier Jedi and Sith can be sent running or die from too much blaster fire, it's literally how most of the Jedi died, though they were taken from surprise.
Maul himself along with his brother was sent running from Hondo's men though they had more people. Dooku even surrendered to them.
I suppose Maul had the freedom to dodge and take cover, but in the movie problem his presences forces Padme to take the long way around, and he kills Qui-Gon. If the Jedi just team up with the Naboo guards, shouldn't it be a stomp against Maul. I guess a problem would how to avoid friendly fire, they'd need some good coordination.
Thank you for the good answers on the last question on order 66 but a few more came to me in light of the answers
Did the clones have any idea who Palpatine was before they revived the order or was this just reviving a call from some random hooded guy telling them to kill there commanding officers. I know in cannon the inhibitor chips were there to make them follow the order but I thought that simply compels them to obey. Did they know about it ahead of time considering the 150 orders are no longer cannon? Could anybody have said “execute order 66” in the presence of clones and set them off prematurely?
Ever since we were introduced to the Galactic Empire in A New Hope, we saw several arrogant officers that boasted their glory and tyrannical grip of the galaxy. From Grand Moffs like Tarkin to field lieutenants such as Nolan (from The Bad Batch series), several Imperials believed themselves to be invincible and the embodiment of the (authoritarian) law.
But how did this collective sense of arrogance originate? Was the Republic's victory in the Clone Wars? Or the rapid expansion of Imperial power?
What exactly made the Imperials so sure of themselves?
In the first couple of episodes it established through dialogue, that Maul wishes to remain a shadow. However, contrary to his words, handles business himself, making no attempts to conceal his face, identity, or lightsaber for that matter.
This is both at odds with his careful, intellectual, characterization in Clone Wars and Rebels and just plain stupid. Was the man’s entire plan hinging on the fact that an officer, Lawson, who he did not know would hide his presence on Janix from the Empire? If not, what’s the deal?
Palpatine was the most powerful Sith of the Banite line. A line that started a 1000 years before The Phantom Menace. He was probably the most powerful Sith that ever existed and is exactly the result Bane wanted to achieve when he came up with the rule of two.
As most on this sub know, the philosophy behind the rule of two is twofold.
At the same time, it is also a cooperative model except for the betrayal in the end. Every generation of Sith aim to acquire a deeper understanding of the Force which also makes them more powerful. They collect artifacts and build on the knowledge accumulated by earlier generations.
What I’m wondering about is the extent of progression. What if Sidious, the ultimate Sith and Bane, who was only the first of the line and theoretically be the weakest of the lot, fought each other? Would it be an easy win for Sidious? Wouldn’t even break a sweat? Or would it be a battle of fine margins?
Why I believe it could not be a cakewalk for Sidious is that there is a problem with the Darwinian part. Apprentices tend to turn on their master only when the opportunity presents itself. When they sense weakness. Both Plagueis and Sidious only turned on their master when they had their guards down. Would they have been able to defeat their masters in a fair fight? We don’t know.
Of course, deception and opportunism is a valuable skill for a Sith. When we talk about how powerful a Sith is, these are also taken into account. Not just knowledge, ,„raw” power (midichlorians?) and sparring skill.
Sidious clearly knows more about the force than Bane did but I’m not certain that in terms of raw power he has a substantial edge. He would still win due to this, but I’m not certain he’s necessarily better with a laser sword – you can only swing it in so many ways.
I have a real world analogy for this. Ancient philosophers and scientist know a lot less about the world than we do. A fresh physics grad know more about physics than the brightest minds of the ancient times, a fresh MD knows more about the human body than anyone of the ancient times. Hell, even a random teenager knows a few things a lot than they did, e.g. than dinosaurs existed, that the American continent exists, etc.
But did Socrates, Plato, Aristotle have a lower cognitive capacity than the brightest people of the modern era? Were they less intelligent? I doubt it.
So what do you guys think? Were the last Sith of the Banite line substantially more powerful than the first ones of the lot?
Thanks for reading my rant.
Compilation of Disney released sources which directly state/imply that Mace Windu defeated Sidious legitimately:
>Windu's final mission was an ill-fated attempt to arrest Chancellor Palpatine which would have been successful had it not been for the last minute intervention by Anakin Skywalker
>When the Jedi discover his true identity, Master Mace Windu confronts the Sith Lord. Sidious would have perished if not for the intervention of Anakin Skywalker
-Star Wars: Card Trader (2015)
>In the final days of the war, he confronted and defeated Chancellor Palpatine (in actuality Darth Sidious) in a difficult duel, only to be betrayed by Anakin Skywalker
-Topps Star Wars Evolution (2016)
>Mace Windu was able to hold his own against Palpatine, but the Sith Lord quickly defeated the other Jedi. Disobeying orders, Anakin arrived just in time to see Mace Windu about to overcome Darth Sidious
- Revenge of the Sith Read-Along Storybook and CD (2017)
>Windu nearly overpowered Darth Sidious, forcing him into a corner and holding him at blade point
- Star Wars Lightsabers: A Guide to Weapons of the Force (2018)
>Mace Windu was also the only one to defeat Darth Sidious in a duel
>However, the toughest confrontation was between Windu and Palpatine. At one point Windu turned the duel in his favour and demonstrated why he deserved the title of "Champion of the Jedi Order"
- Star Wars: Geektionary: The Galaxy from A - Z (2018)
>But his action results in a fight. Windu prevails. But Anakin appears on the scene and turns the situation around, allowing Palpatine to win
- Topps Star Wars Galactic Files (2018)
>Mace forms a Jedi strike team to arrest him. While his comrades fall, Mace is nearly successful. However, Anakin arrives and defends Palpatine, allowing an opening for Palpatine to kill Mace
- Star Wars: The Complete Visual Dictionary, New Edition (2018)
>Mace Windu battled Supreme Chancellor Palpatine after the latter was revealed to be the mysterious Sith Lord, Darth Sidious. While Windu took the upper-hand, an interruption from Anakin Skywalker turned the tide and allowed Darth Sidious to destroy the revered Jedi Master
- Topps Star Wars Galactic Moments Countdown to Episode 9 (2018)
>Master Windu led a group of Jedi Masters to arrest the corrupt leader, and had my father not betrayed him, he might have bested the Dark Lord in Combat
Star Wars: The Secrets of the Jedi (2019)
>By the time Anakin arrived on the scene, three of the four Jedi Masters lay dead, cut down by Palpatine's crimson lightsaber blade before it was lost. The Sith Lord's fate was now in Mace Windu's hands alone
- Skywalker: A Family at War (2021)
>Windu disarms Palpatine, and forces the Sith Lord into the corner of his spacious office window
-Star Wars Databank
There are a lot more but I wasn't able to find their origin or year or release so I omitted them from this compilation.
Next part is about the force lightning exchange. Vast majority of sources state that Darth Sidious got disfigured by his own force lightning which heavily implies that he was going all out and contradict any "toying" statements. We even have a source which directly states this:
>Palpatine was using force lightning to try to defeat Master Windu, but it was rapidly draining him of all his energy
-The Prequel Trilogy Stories (2017)
Below are all the sources I found which state that Sidious got disfigured by his own Force Lightning:
>Palpatine was badly scarred in the fight
- Revenge of the Sith Read-Along Storybook and CD (2017)
>Mace Windu succeeded in disarming him after a savage duel, and used his lightsaber to deflect the Force lightning Palpatine struck at him. The rebound blast disfigured Palpatine
- Star Wars: Geektionary: The Galaxy from A - Z (2018)
>Windu deflects the lightning back towards Palpatine with his lightsaber, causing Palpatine's face to become scarred
- Star Wars: A Galaxy at War (2018)
>Darth Sidious was permanently scarred by his own Force lightning when Mace Windu tried to deflect the Sith Lord's attack
- Star Wars The Secrets of the Jedi (2019)
>A Jedi task force learns that Palpatine is a Sith Lord and tries to capture him. Palpatine kills them but his own Force lightning leaves him disfigured
- Ultimate Star Wars, New Edition (2019)
>Dark Lightning emanated from Palpatine's fingerprints, ricocheting off Windu's blade to leave Darth Sidious deformed
- Skywalker: A Family at War (2021)
>Face scarred by his own Force lightning during a duel with Jedi Mace Windu
- Star Wars The Dark Side Pocket Expert (2023)
>Mace cornered Sidious, and the Sith Lord unleashed torrents of dark Force lightning at his opponent, some of which were deflected back at Sidious, forever scarring his face
- Star Wars Databank
There are more stating the same but once again I wasn't able to find their origin and year of release hence why I omitted them from here. Thats all for now