u/Far_Stock_3987

WoL campaign units, structures and upgrades that aren't in coop

I thought I'd make a list of WoL campaign units, structures and upgrades that aren't present in coop, with a view to considering which terran commanders could benefit most from these being added to their kit.

Mercenary units (except dusk wings)

These are noticeably missing from coop. I'd replace Raynor's dusk wings calldown with merc calldown from the topbar. Essentially you would get access to all the mercs available in the WoL campaign (excluding spartan company goliaths because Raynor doesn't have goliaths in his base kit), all on a shared cooldown. This means you'd need to choose carefully which merc you need for each situation. After 60 seconds, air units fly away and ground units are picked up by medivacs. The mercs come with all their upgrades and include:

  1. War pigs (marines) - unlocked after building barracks. Calls down 12 war pigs. Useful as an early game boost eg. to clear expansions. Covers the calldown area in a hail of bullets upon usage which targets both ground and air units.

  2. Devil dogs (firebats) - unlocked after building engineering bay. Calls down 6 devil dogs. Useful on infested maps. Covers the calldown area in fire which causes damage over time to enemy ground units.

  3. Hammer securities (marauders) - unlocked after building engineering bay. Calls down 6 merc marauders. Useful for enemy comps with lots of armoured ground units. Covers the calldown area in concussive shells which damage and slow ground units.

  4. Siege breakers (siege tanks) - unlocked after building factory. Calls down 4 siege breakers that land in siege mode and immediately shell nearby enemies. Great when you need siege units in a pinch.

  5. Hel's angels (vikings) - unlocked after building starport. Calls down 6 Hel's angels. Useful against enemy air comps. Covers the calldown area in a swarm of anti air missiles.

  6. Dusk wings (banshees) - same as the current calldown. Unlocked after building starport. Useful against ground armies without detection.

  7. Jackson's revenge (battlecruisers) - unlocked after building fusion core. Calls down 2 merc BCs which have the yamato cannon and tactical jump abilities. They spawn with an active defensive matrix which lasts 60 seconds. Great for tanking damage and sniping dangerous units with yamato.

These calldowns will give Raynor a lot more flexibility and won't fall off in usefulness as badly as the current banshee calldown does in the late game. The exact number of units spawned can be tweaked for balancing purposes.

These new calldowns also provide an alternative prestige idea for P2, which currently doesn't provide much of a change to P0.

New P2: the merc calldowns are permanent (advantage), but cost resources (disadvantage), similar thematically to Alarak P3. The resource cost can be tweaked for balance purposes, but I thought it could be cool if they mainly cost minerals, essentially testing how good you are at using mules to maximise your mineral income. High skill players may be able to max out their supply with a pure merc army! If this is felt to be too strong you could also remove Hyperion for another disadvantage.

With this new P2 replacing the old one, the afterburners upgrade could be changed to boost both movement speed and attack speed for ALL prestiges (at the cost of 10 HP), increasing its general utility and keeping players who enjoy the current P2 happy.

Other units and structures

  1. Diamondback and its upgrades tri-lithium power cell (+1 range) and shaped hull (+50 HP) - as many others have said before, this would definitely fit Swann's kit best.

  2. Predator - this is a meme unit from the campaign and is too weak in this state to be useful in coop. However I think a hero version of the predator could be given to Cannonball as his pet dog Cerberus who follows him around and automatically attacks nearby enemies with a buffed version of the predator's AoE attack. This would give Cannonball a much needed buff, and would fit thematically - he is a Herc after all, and in mythology Hercules captured Cerberus. The Redline power cells gear would also affect Cerberus' attack speed. I'd also change Cannonball's ultimate gear to 'you killed my dog!' - every time Cerberus is killed, Cannonball is enraged and gets a 4x multiplier to his attack damage for 30s. Cerberus then respawns automatically after 60s. The idea is, Cerberus jumps into the fray at the start of an engagement and takes out the smaller units with his AoE attack, then when he dies Cannonball uses the rage-induced damage buff to take out the beefier enemies like hybrids.

  3. Raven with seeker missile, auto turret and point defence drone abilities - the seeker missile is already usable by Nova's raven, and PDDs are already part of the Hyperion's abilities, so in order to differentiate the standard raven better from these, I'd rather give it the anti-armour missile and interference matrix abilities from the 1v1 raven instead (auto turrets can stay). This version of the raven would suit Raynor's kit best - he needs mobile detection, anti-armour missile would synergise very well with marines and BCs, auto turrets can stall, and interference matrix would give him another way of countering dangerous AoE spells like storm, parasitic bomb etc.

  4. Spectre and its upgrades psionic lash and Nyx-class cloaking module (indefinite cloaking) - technically spectres do exist in coop in the form of Nux, but standard spectres don't really fit well with any of the current commanders, and in my opinion would be best kept in reserve in case we ever get a Tosh commander.

  5. Planetary fortress - this would suit H&H best, as they currently lack anti-ground static defence. I would also suggest changing space station reallocation to 'planetary reallocation', dropping a planetary fortress on the targeted spot, doing similar damage to units it lands on that the space station does. This then attacks nearby enemies, and can be used as a forward base if it survives, eg. for luring enemies to mag mines or dropping one at enemy spawn points to support spawn camping. If destroyed it detonates a nuke, or you can manually detonate it if you wanted. I'd also give H&H the ability to upgrade their command centres to planetary fortresses.

  6. Hive mind emulator - this is a great defensive structure from the campaign but it is hard to see which of the current commanders it would fit in with. I think this would be best saved for Tosh, but would need to be changed to affect non-zerg units as well.

  7. Psi disruptor - as above, this would be great on defensive maps (though you'd need to extend its effect to non-zerg units too), but doesn't quite fit with any of the current commanders. Again I think this could work well for Tosh, giving him a very unique defensive setup.

Upgrades

  1. Ultra capacitors (weapon upgrades also increase attack speed by 5%) - Raynor has its defensive counterpart (vanadium plating), so I think it would probably make sense for him to get ultra capacitors as well, as he is the commander most in need of buffs.

  2. Micro filtering (25% more gas from refineries) - Swann's gas drones are effectively the same as this upgrade, so this is already covered.

  3. Command center reactor (double SVC production) - I think this would fit Swann the most as he tends to build more SCVs than any other commander, and this would help him ramp up his economy more quickly in the early game. It should probably be an upgrade at the command center (similar to orbital command) so it isn't too overpowered.

  4. Cellular reactor (+100 starting and max energy for spellcasters) - of the terran commanders, I think either Raynor (medics and banshees) or Swann (wraiths and science vessels) would be the best fit for this upgrade.

  5. Dual fusion welders (doubles SCV repair speed) - Swann would be the natural fit for this upgrade, but to be honest I don't think he really needs it.

  6. Advanced medic facilities (medics don't require tech lab) - I guess you could give this to Raynor, but I don't think it will be that impactful to be honest.

  7. U238 rounds (reapers gain +1 range and +3 damage vs light targets) - this could help make H&H's reapers stronger, though of all their units I think their reapers are least in need of an offensive buff.

  8. G4 clusterbomb (reaper ability) - this is a pretty mediocre ability, and H&H's reapers already have an on-death grenade ability which is better than this, so I don't think this really has a place in coop.

  9. Twin linked flamethrower (doubles width of hellion flame attack) - this could help improve both Swann's and Nova's hellions, albeit only a little.

  10. Rapid deployment tube (medivacs deploy troops almost instantly) - only Mengsk could use this, but medivac drops are not really that useful in coop.

  11. Tomahawk power cells (+100 starting energy for wraiths) - either Swann or H&H could benefit from this, though it does overlap a bit with cellular reactor above.

  12. Cross spectrum dampeners (banshees can cloak for twice as long) - Nova has a better version of this where her banshees can cloak indefinitely without needing energy, so this is already more than covered.

  13. Missile pods (anti-air AoE ability for BC) - I think H&H's BCs would benefit most from this ability, as H&H can sometimes struggle with large numbers of air units. This would complement their vikings' WILD missiles ability which provides good anti-air single target damage.

  14. Ocular implants (+3 sight range and +2 attack range for ghosts) - I guess you could give this to either Nova's or Mengsk's ghosts, though I'm not sure either of them really need a buff.

What do you all think? Is there anything I've missed from the campaign? I might do similar lists for the HotS and LotV campaigns too.

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u/Far_Stock_3987 — 3 days ago

Buffing outclassed mastery options

There are quite a few mastery options which feel underpowered and outclassed by their counterparts. Buffing these masteries would provide more viable mastery options for commanders, increasing strategic diversity without making commanders overpowered. Here are my thoughts on which masteries may benefit from buffs.

Raynor - all of his masteries have their uses, though I've always felt the 'medics heal additional target' mastery is a bit weak. I wondered whether this could also buff the medic heal damage reduction, 1% extra per point up to a maximum of 55% damage reduction. This would help improve the survivability of Raynor's army, which is one of his biggest weaknesses.

Artanis - guardian shell regen mastery should be doubled (max 30% additional life and shield regen, for a total of 45%) to make it a more competitive option.

Swann - I think all of his masteries have their place, though I do wish immortality protocol applied to more than just siege tanks and thors.

Zagara - power set 1 does very little for P1, so I'd suggest changing 'Zagara attack damage' to 'bonus max supply' - each point in this increases Zagara's max supply by 1, up to a maximum of 180 for P1 and 130 for other prestiges. Also, 'roach damage and life' is an underpowered option currently, I'd add in an increase to roach duration as well (up to max 48s duration). The roaches should also be corpser roaches from the heart of the swarm campaign.

Karax - chrono boost efficiency is outclassed by SoA energy, so I'd change it to 'chrono boost and chrono field efficiency', additionally increasing the chrono field production speed boost by 0.5% per mastery point to a maximum of 30% in total. This will promote non-P3 play and provide an additional production boost to your ally. It also differentiates it from the chrono boost efficiency masteries that other protoss commanders have (I've always felt it was lazy design that nearly all the protoss commanders have the same mastery option).

Abathur - double biomass chance mastery needs to be fixed so it synergises with the toxic nest biomass bonus rather than overriding it. This will make it more competitive against symbiote ability improvement.

Nova - nuke and holo decoy mastery is outclassed by Griffin airstrike cost. I'd improve the cooldown reduction to 4s per mastery point (to a maximum of - 120s cooldown) and make it affect the coolup time as well.

Tychus - outlaw availability is generally outclassed by tri-outlaw research improvement because Tychus rarely needs extra support early on. I'd suggest changing it to 'ultimate gear improvement', providing 1.67% improvement per mastery point (up to a maximum of 50% improvement). At max mastery, Tychus' ultimate gear would provide 30% weapon damage bonus per nearby outlaw, Sam's ultimate gear would reduce the charge time of demo charge by 4.5s per attack, Sirius' ultimate gear would improve life and damage of warhound turrets by 112.5%, Blaze's ultimate gear would reduce damage to a maximum of 20, Cannonball's ultimate gear would provide a 45% chance of a critical hit, Rattlesnake's ultimate gear would make his attacks deal 75% of their damage in an AoE, Vega's ultimate gear would increase the duration of dominate by 300%, Nux's ultimate gear would reduce the cooldowns of nearby outlaws by 30%, and Nikara's ultimate gear would create a 600 HP shield for 30s. This mastery could help Tychus in the late game where he can sometimes run out of steam against enemies buffed by difficult mutators. Best of all, this mastery only buffs non-P2 prestiges.

Stetmann - upgrade resource cost is outclassed by Gary ability cooldown, mainly because the upgrades affected are only weapon and armour upgrades. This should ideally be changed to affect all upgrades to make it a more competitive option.

Mengsk - royal guard imperial support is outclassed by labourer and trooper imperial support, and could be doubled to 2% per mastery point (max 60%) to make it more competitive. Similarly, royal guard experience gain rate is outclassed by starting mandate, and frankly I think this would need to be quadrupled to 2% per mastery point (max 60%) to make it competitive, given how incredibly powerful starting mandate is for fast expanding and getting your economy going quickly.

I think the masteries for other commanders all have their uses. What do you all think?

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u/Far_Stock_3987 — 5 days ago
▲ 37 r/starcraft2coop+1 crossposts

Tya is back!

After a 3 year hiatus, Tya is back with a new SC2 unit battle video:

https://youtu.be/mysDc\_Iqph8?is=VWD\_SRL4Eb6iqkRU

I don't know how many of you are aware of Tya's videos, but they've had a profound impact on my SC2 journey. They were my first introduction to coop units (which frequently featured in the unit battles), and I thought they looked awesome so I started to play coop and haven't stopped playing it since!

I hope Tya plans to continue making more videos, but I wanted to spread the word in case there are other fans out there.

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u/Far_Stock_3987 — 2 months ago

Inspired by this week's 'firewall' mutation and the recent 'specter of death' mutation we had, I thought I'd create a tier list ranking commanders on their abilities to detect cloaked/burrowed units. I will also be including any other methods commanders have of damaging invisible units even without detection.

In standard games you only have to deal with a few scattered invisible units such as ghosts (usually the most dangerous due to their nuke), banshees, wraiths, widow mines, lurkers, swarm hosts and dark templar, as well as units within the cloaking fields of arbiters and motherships. However the 'we move unseen' mutator really brings the importance of detection to the fore, and in particular commanders who have good early game detection options will be very valuable here. Detection is also important when dealing with the 'minesweeper' mutator.

In general, protoss commanders have better detection options than the other races because observers are cloaked and photon cannons can hit both air and ground units (though there are a couple of exceptions). Terran commanders generally have worse detection options than the other races because their mobile detectors typically can't deploy to extend their detection range, and tend to have a higher attack priority so can be shot down more easily by enemy fire (again there are a couple of exceptions).

Commanders get two points for each mobile detector and one point for every static detector they have. For mobile detectors, bonus points are awarded if they are cloaked, can be deployed to extend their detection range, or if they have other advantages such as an absurdly large detection range, boosts to their survivability or the ability to kill invisible units by themselves. A point will be deducted if the detector has a high target priority or is a ground unit, putting it at higher risk of being killed.

For static detectors, bonus points will be awarded for being able to attack both ground and air targets, being able to build them quickly in an emergency, the ability to teleport to different locations, and having any boosts to their survivability. A point will be deducted if the static detector has a short detection range.

Commanders with hero detectors will get an additional 4 points, with points halved if the hero's detection isn't available in the early game.

Commanders will also get additional points for each ability that can damage invisible units without detection, as long as the ability is reliable and practical to use on a regular basis - essentially, if the ability able to reliably take out a ghost that is nuking your base without wasting an important top bar.

D tier

Raynor - his orbital commands can scan anywhere on the map at the cost of 50 energy, which is equivalent to the cost of a mule which would have mined 225 minerals. That seems pretty expensive for a temporary area of static detection unless you're playing P1, but at least it can't be shot down by enemy fire. He has missile turrets for static detection, but doesn't have any other mobile detection options. The dusk wings calldown does deal 50 AoE damage to any enemy unit in its drop zone, but this isn't really a practical way of dealing with invisible units. Total: 2 points.

C tier

H&H - they have theia ravens for mobile detection and missile turrets for static detection. Ravens have a high attack priority and are relatively frail unless you have a lot of Han units providing a good significant other HP bonus. They are also expensive, even more so with P1, though P2 brings their gas cost down a bit. At least they can be cloaked when not moving though. Strike fighters can damage invisible ground units without detection. Space station reallocation can kill invisible units on contact and when it explodes, but you wouldn't use it just to take out a few invisible units. Reapers' KD8 charge can also damage invisible units without detection, but the damage is pretty minimal. Total: 4 points.

Vorazun - she has oracles for mobile detection, which are one of the worst detectors in the game as they are fragile and have one of the highest attack priorities, though at least they are cloaked and revive with emergency recall (and can kill ghosts by themselves). You can of course mind control enemy detectors to use them instead, but this isn't always practical. She has photon cannons for static detection, which you can cloak with a dark pylon. Time stop reveals cloaked units anywhere on the map, which can be useful when pushing. If you are P2 you can also use confusion or disruption web to damage invisible units, though these won't kill them outright so isn't very practical. Total: 6 points.

Swann - he has science vessels for mobile detection, which aren't great because they are the slowest mobile detector in the game, though with P3 they can teleport which is nice. They can also irradiate ghosts, which are the most dangerous cloaked units. He has spinning dizzies for static detection, which are much better than standard missile turrets, self-heal to improve survivability and can be built quickly by multiple SCVs if you need urgent detection. Thors' barrage cannon can damage invisible enemies without detection, as can concentrated beam and pulse cannon, but I don't think any of these are very practical for just taking out a few invisible units. Total: 6 points.

Alarak - he has havocs for mobile detection, which aren't great as they are ground units and fragile, though at least they are cloaked. He has photon cannons for static detection, and can overcharge them for extra damage potential and protection. Alarak's destruction wave and ascendants' psionic orb can damage invisible units without detection. Total: 7 points.

Mengsk - he has imperial witnesses for mobile detection, which you'll be building anyway because of their indoctrination ability. They are more tanky than most other mobile detectors (albeit more expensive too), and like observers and overseers they can be deployed in order to increase their vision and detection range, though they have less extended range than observers and overseers (radius 15 vs 17 when deployed). He has missile turrets for static detection, which can be built quickly by multiple labourers if you need urgent detection. Emperor's shadows can use EMP blast to reveal enemy cloaked units for 10s, and their tactical nukes can damage invisible units without detection. ESOs, contaminated strike and nuclear annihilation can also all damage invisible units without detection, but they aren't very reliable or practical for just taking out a few invisible units. Total: 7 points.

B tier

Dehaka - Dehaka himself can detect invisible units once he reaches level 5, which is great for mid-late game but isn't available in the early game - this hampers his early essence collection when 'we move unseen' is present. His leap and scorching breath abilities can damage invisible ground units without detection. He has primal wurms and greater primal wurms for static detection, and both of these can deep tunnel to any explored part of the map on a 60s cooldown. However primal wurms are expensive relative to other static defences, and also cost supply. Glevig's incendiary acid and Dakrun's brutal charge can damage invisible units without detection. Dakrun's damage reflect can target invisible enemies that are attacking him, and the same is true for tyrannozors' spiked hide gene mutation and Dehaka's damage reflect when he devours a massive unit (and P1 grants this buff to all nearby friendly units too). Ultralisks' brutal charge and tyrannozors' barrage of spikes can also damage invisible units without detection. None of these are particularly reliable ways of dealing with invisible units though. Total: 8 points.

Zagara - she has overseers for mobile detection and spore crawlers for static detection, both of which are pretty average. Bile launchers can also hit invisible ground or air units without detection. Banelings and scourge can damage invisible units if they are killed or manually detonated next to them. Zagara's baneling barrage ability can hit invisible units, and infested drop can also damage them on impact. Total: 8 points.

Abathur - he has overseers for mobile detection and spore crawlers for static detection, and can improve both of their survivability with mend. His spore crawlers can also be built very quickly with full structure morph mastery (down to 12s build time). Toxic nests will automatically target invisible ground units. Ravagers' corrosive bile can damage invisible units without detection, and work very well due to the large AoE and short cooldown. Total: 9 points.

Tychus - he has auto turrets for static detection, which do good damage but are more fragile than other static defences, and interestingly have a smaller detection range too (radius 7 rather than the standard 11 that all other commanders' static detectors have). Sirius' turrets are also detectors, and have more HP and DPS than auto turrets, as well as being easier to use. Vega, Nux and Nikara can all detect invisible units once upgraded, and Vega can mind control enemy detectors if you really want to. Tychus' shredder grenade, Cannonball's heavy impact and Nux's ultrasonic pulse can all damage invisible units without detection. Odin can damage invisible units on impact, and with the barrage/big red button abilities, but you wouldn't waste this to take out a few cloaked units. P2 is generally not recommended when dealing with the 'we move unseen' mutator, because your outlaws will be spread out and some of them won't be able to target the enemy. This means you'll likely be using one of his other, less powerful, prestiges. Total: up to 11 points if using Sirius, Vega, Nux and Nikara, though in reality you probably won't be using that combination so 9 points is probably more realistic.

A tier

Karax - he has observers for mobile detection which are one of the better mobile detection options in the game due to them being cloaked themselves and having a low attack priority, and he can improve their survivability with repair beam, shield batteries and unity barrier. Energizers can also reclaim enemy terran or protoss detectors for 2 minutes. He has photon cannons for static detection, which can be built instantly and benefit from structure health mastery and upgrades to their range and attack speed (with further buffs if you are playing P1). Orbital strike, solar lance and purifier beam can all hit invisible units without detection, though in reality orbital strike is the one you'd be using in an emergency. Total: 10 points.

Artanis - he has observers for mobile detection, and can spawn them anywhere within vision due to his level 8 talent and power field projection ability. His observers also benefit from guardian shell and shield overcharge, improving their survivability. He has photon cannons for static detection, which also benefit from shield overcharge. Psionic storm and zealots' whirlwind can damage invisible enemies without detection. Orbital strike and solar bombardment can also hit invisible enemies, and if you are P3 the unbound fanatics' automatic energy blasts can also damage them. Total: 11 points.

Fenix - he has observers for mobile detection and photon cannons for static detection. The arbiter suit also becomes a detector once upgraded, and with P1 you can have continuous uptime on the arbiter suit. Praetor suit can use thunderous charge and whirlwind to damage invisible enemies without detection. Dragoon suit can use solar cannon/solarite flare to damage invisible enemies without detection. Disruptors' purification nova can damage invisible ground units without detection, and Mojo's suppression procedure can damage cloaked air units without detection. Total: 12 points.

S tier

Nova - Nova herself can detect invisible units once upgraded, and has a variety of ways to kill them by herself, making her one of the best detectors in the game. Penetrating blast, sabotage drone and tactical nuke strike can damage invisible units even without detection. She also has type II ravens for mobile detection, which are pretty tanky but are expensive and have one of the highest attack priorities, though they are able to kill invisible units by themselves via railgun turrets or predator missiles. They can also improve their survivability using repair drones. She has missile turrets for static detection. Her ghosts can use EMP to deactivate the cloaking of enemy units for 10s. Griffin airstrike and banshees' rocket barrage can damage invisible units without detection. Total: 13 points.

Stukov - he has overseers for mobile detection, and infested missile turrets for static detection. Brood queens' ocular symbiote grants detection and increased vision range (by 5) to any friendly unit for 3 minutes for only 25 energy, essentially giving you and your ally as many mobile detectors as you desire. They can also use fungal growth to reveal and damage invisible enemies. Brood queens are so good I'll double the points they earn Stukov. Apocalisk can use burrow charge to damage invisible units without detection, and Aleksander can mind control aerial detectors for a short time. Volatile infested can damage invisible enemies if killed nearby. Infested diamondbacks' slime trail can damage invisible ground units without detection, and actually works very well at taking them out. Total: 14 points.

Kerrigan (not P1) - omega worms are one of the best detection solutions in the game. They can be spawned instantly anywhere within vision for free and are very tanky, not to mention that they can carry your whole army and generate malignant creep too. They are so good I'll double the points they earn her. Kerrigan also has access to overseers and spore crawlers for detection, but basically doesn't need them due to how good omega worms are. Her psionic shift, crushing grip and immobilisation wave abilities can also hit invisible enemies without detection, and the latter also reveals them. If you are P2, her zap attack can also hit and stun invisible units. Total: 14 points.

Stetmann (not P1) - Super Gary is a detector, and given that with a tight build order you can upgrade Gary as soon as he spawns, this makes Super Gary great for early game detection (though not super early game eg. the first attack wave on RtK). He also has mecha overseers for mobile detection and mecha spore crawlers for static detection. His overseers can be healed with green zone and move quite fast in blue zone, improving their survivability. His spore crawlers can be built anywhere (unlike other zerg commanders) and very quickly with full structure morph mastery (down to 12s build time). Gary's e-gorb, mecha lurkers' tunnel of terror algorithm, mecha corruptors' cluster busters and mecha ultralisks' vectored burrow charge can all damage invisible units without detection. Mecha banelings can also damage invisible ground units if they are killed or manually detonated next to them. Total: 14 points.

SS tier

Zeratul - he has both tesseract cannons and tesseract monoliths for static detection. His tesseract cannons are much more powerful and tanky compared to regular cannons, particularly with P2. His monoliths have a larger detection range than any other static detection structure (radius 13 vs the standard 11). Both his cannons and monoliths can be shade projected anywhere on the map within vision, to provide detection wherever it is needed. Zeratul also has Xelnaga watchers, which are cloaked just like standard observers but have an obscene vision and detection radius one you get the 3rd artifact fragment - 17 when mobile, 25.5 when deployed in surveillance mode (more than any other unit in the game). This makes them one of the best detection options in all of coop. Zeratul's shadow cleave and void templar's void fury blink can damage invisible units without detection. The abrogator's purification nova and avatar of form's psionic gale ability can also damage invisible units without detection, though they need to be manually cast on them. Total: 16 points.

Let me know your thoughts! Have I missed anything or under/over-rated any commanders?

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u/Far_Stock_3987 — 4 months ago