Feedback on Update 3, Experimental 2

Feedback on Update 3, Experimental 2

This experimental has added a ton of amazing content, and it'll be hard to go back to the main build after playing this. Update 3, with what we have in the experimental right now, plus gatekeeper 4 dropping in the near future, is looking like the best update so far content wise.

New Elevator Objectives:

Probably the most exciting thing about the new experimental, the new elevator objectives are an incredible way to spice up gameplay. A phenomenal change and they both feel great.

Collect Cogs:

Actual tears fell from my eyes after I completed my first round of collect cogs. It's just... so peak. Collect cogs is great at encouraging teamwork, exploration, time management, terrain generation, changing up combat, it's perfect.

The way you have to work with your team to scramble to repair the drive unit, having to consider each event and second spent not working towards the drive unit and how that could affect your ability to complete the mission, how human error is involved, and makes collecting the cogs well with your teammates feel so much more satisfying.

I love how it changes how you interact with your traversal tools, as you can't use them as objective based anymore and you have to consider how you spend them relating to the cogs. You have to decide if you want to waste time getting to the elevator so you can see the cogs on the map and plan accordingly, or if you want to clear the cave before making your way all the way to the elevator and risk cogs appearing in inconvenient places that would have otherwise been better to get earlier

And the terrain gen, it's just

https://preview.redd.it/kcu4ucdgzhuh1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f207e2f0eae9a51e85ef03b52c5e254c05b7a76b

https://preview.redd.it/kszibrbhzhuh1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5dfe81187f050acccd4db99c090798ccdffd5f1

It's peak. The different biomes get to shine SO well with their unique characteristics, and how they compliment the objective is terrific. The room and objective are also very difficult, and has breathed life into the pacing and pressure of my lobbies. I've had some amazing games that came down to the wire because of collect cogs. It's tense, it's fun, it compliments the game, it's perfect.

Not perfect, it does have its issues. Cogs spawning in the first room is something I'm mixed on. On one hand, you have to keep your eye out when the cogs aren't revealed on the map, but on the other, you can't scour every square inch of the first cave, especially in biomes with more intense cave gen like DB or CC.

I also think it doesn't need that last segment of defending the drive unit, but that's just me. Collect cogs is very effort and resource driven, and having to defend the elevator on top of getting the cogs is cinematic, but it sometimes gets really down to the wire. I could go either way, since it's one last moment of standing your ground, but it also feels like a touch too much.

And for the map markers themselves, the big blue spheres need a little work before they hit live. Sometimes it has issues where the cog is in like, an adjacent cave, or on a higher cliff where it can kill a lot of time for teams, even if they're using all their traversal tools well. Maybe make it so the cog has to have line of sight with the center of the sphere when the sphere is generated? So the area that the cog is in is better told to the player, to avoid some frustrating scenarios where they're super hidden while not giving it away.

But overall collect cogs is phenomenal and I'm glad it was put into this experimental, it was something I was looking forward to from the unused content and it translated really well into main mission flow. It does everything it should have and more, and my gripes with it are more minor issues.

Remove Growths

This one's still solid, but I feel like it provides too little friction. There's no reason to not just pop every single growth at once since the number of enemies that spawn are easily handled by one person. I've seen some people on the discord say this exact thing, so I assume it's already on the record but I just wanted to re-iterate.

Actually, something that the Growths reminded me of was the dreadnaught fight in DRG survivor, where they'll spit weird growths full of glyphids at the player. I think the growths should spawn corespawn on the elevator, and the amount of corespawn spawned across all growths is equal to the amount of corespawn that'd be spawned when you normally activate the drive unit.

That way whoever breaks the growths has to fight the corespawn, and the team has to decide how much they want to pace themselves when bursting the growths, since if you spawn all of them at once you're more likely to get killed, but a single player could still remove all the growths on their own if they pace themselves. It being on the elevator also gives more direct pressure than the corespawn coming out of the walls.

Growths needs something unique, maybe spreading out clusters of growths around the cave like a scalebramble, or putting more combat pressure on a team, but I like the concept over the regular defend objective.

Boss Vectors

Amazing change for people wanting to spice up the gatekeepers. This could be a great way to introduce more unique gatekeeper variants, and still telegraph it to the players so they aren't caught off guard. For the actual vectors, I'm mixed.

  • Reinforcements: I couldn't tell a difference from a normal gatekeeper fight. These "Spawn more enemies" risk vectors have an issue where it doesn't really feel that different from a regular gatekeeper fight, so it's hard to make your decision feel like it had weight. It works well as a proof of concept, but picking this vector feels the same as picking no vector.
  • Cloaking: Great vector. Especially scary against the ramok, but for all the gatekeepers I love how it makes them less readable and forces you to react based on sound. I think it could use an animation easing the boss in and out of cloak, like what the stalker does for un-cloaking but in reverse, but I'm certain this is already in the works.
  • Seismic Activity: This one sucked, but Anders already replied to me on discord about it and he's already done the right thing. Before it was a random slowdown, but now with just the stalactites this one might be my favorite. I love how it changes the terrain as the fight goes on and forces you to adapt. Plus, hot rock is a great asset to people who know how to play around it so it appearing in the boss fight adds a lot more counterplay to the corespawn. Just one note, the hitbox on the "???" in the molaktula should be lowered slightly, because if you're on top of a fallen stalactite and there's a "???" on the floor beneath you, it can still hit you.
  • Protection: It's fine. It didn't add much to the fight since the protection totems are so weak, but the concept is pretty good. Maybe make it like the DRG corestone where you have to dig into the pillar and throw something inside into the rift gate to disable the gatekeeper's invulnerability? I think it should break up pacing and be more of a threat, since if you picked a mission with Boss Vectors that's what you're looking for.
  • Core Pollution: Not in the cheat terminal and I couldn't find it in a real game. Come back later in case I find it.
  • Soul Jar: I did not care for the Soul Jar. This modifier just disincentivizes players from interacting with the gatekeeper, and encourages a very turtle-y/bunker-y playstyle. Since you can't fight back against the gatekeeper, what's the reason for staying out in the open? Just digging a hole into the wall and waiting for enemies to come to you is the viable and (more often than not) correct choice
  • Bombardment: Amazing idea, gatekeeper specific vectors are the way to go, since it gives the fight a lot more pushback and solid fundamentals. Albeit I couldn't really feel the effects of this one, but if anything is taken away from this post it's that GSG cooked here, and the devs who worked on boss vectors are great. Hell if I were them, I'd make Bombardment even harder. Make the Gotoorak shoot off 3 big shots in a row, make the twist attack do 3 times as many twirls, make it throw off more projectiles in the small toss move. You've struck gold here

Overall I think the boss vectors are more often than not very good, and I think they shouldn't be afraid to make them difficult, like really difficult. If a player picked the mission with Boss vectors, they want something harder. Let the advanced players try and punch above their weight class against new and interesting challenges in the gatekeeper fight. The best ones are the hard ones, and the ones that I'm not so fond on are the ones that play it safe. Boss vectors are something I'm very excited to see in the future

Cosmetic Sheet Rework

https://preview.redd.it/vsd52r4fziuh1.jpg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ee631567cf967d769ce0df990b05752cdb20e50

It looks great! I love the texture that it has, it's a lot more readable than the OG. Great work

New Alteration

Instability was something I was looking forward to out of the unused content in the last experimental, and it looks like I was right. Instability adds a lot to a round, and can give players unexpected challenges which is something I'm a HUGE fan of. Getting a jumble for just one round can give people a really fun dive that feels different from any other game.

The Reroll Terminal also makes this a lot more bearable, since you can react to the new issues that you'll face in whatever alteration is chosen for you. Very dynamic, very fun.

More Cheat Terminal Controls

I could kiss you, ghostship. This is exactly what I wanted

"Minor" changes

Reroll Terminal UI rework: I love the slot machine animation, I just think it should start off spinning when you open up the menu since it starts off paused right now, then starts. It's a little visually confusing since I end up thinking that what's there when I open the menu is what I've got, then it starts spinning. But that's a nitpick, it's fine as is.

Enhancement Terminal Rework: I'm Flattered, thanks for using my idea. This idea is absolutely perfect and you should never ever change it ever

Reroll terminal and bloodroot changes: The name change to the refractor is going to have trouble sticking. Reroll terminal communicates what it is a lot better. Bloodroot change to flux quartz is fine, I liked bloodroot a little better since I like picking plants but flux quartz does stand out a lot more in the caves. I was iffy on removing it from the terrian scanner, but I like it in the environment, it makes you take in the caves a lot more. It helps the player appreciate the caves and the new environment of the game.

Ramhammer buff: Good change overall, it was needed. The event is still a drag but it's a little better. The issue where corespawn walk straight through the ramhammer was the more pressing issue IMO

Pausing level timer: Amazing change. I think the timer should pop back up on the screen like how it does when you enter the facility once someone leaves the elevator, just to put it in the player's face that the level time is paused while they're in the elevator since it isn't very well communicated to the player

Elevator tools: Another great change. Terrain scanner and laser pointer were needed in the elevator, but I still think the elevator disabling weapons is iffy, I'll touch on it again in a second

Lok-1 Nerf:

https://preview.redd.it/bl3a9447cjuh1.png?width=559&format=png&auto=webp&s=28609e9b29502b608557b574a43c8f306076f9b9

Not really a nerf, but just extending the upgrade's potency would've been perfectly fine since the weapon already wasn't that great. Plus a certain new enemy that I'll be talking about very soon already kind of nerfed the LOK indirectly. (It can't really hit the bloater's weakpoints)

Bloater thoughts

My opinion on the bloater soured in this experimental. On one hand, it has made the game harder, but on the other, It's unsatisfying to fight, has way too much bulk, and doesn't really do a great job at encouraging elemental builds. I don't have any numbers, so I can't know its elemental resistances/vulnerabilities, but what I do know is it takes 9 pellets from the stubby right out the box to apply electricity, and the stun sweeper doesn't even fully trigger it on one toss of the boomerang.

What I do like about it is that it's discouraging the weakpoint and splash damage meta, its weakpoint is very well designed and its bulk does do a lot to help the average health of the swarm. However, I feel like it doesn't do much to make you want to interact with it. It doesn't do its attack enough to make the player want to engage with the belly weakpoint, but even if you make it attack to reveal its belly, its weakpoint modifier is set too low for how much it makes you work for it.

The death explosion change also doesn't feel great. I get it's not supposed to feel great since it's meant to provide friction, but it disproportionately affects melee and shotgun builds. Well, melee builds on anyone except slicer since his slice range is far enough to where it won't be a problem. It probably is a skill issue, but the death explosion makes me just ignore them in a swarm.

As for their tankiness, correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like they have a health value of 500 on floor 1 of haz 5. That's more than every other non-disruptive enemy, barring the bruiser. If you take into account weakpoint damage bonuses, the Bloater is now the tankiest non-disruptive enemy in the game, which feels like a bit much, especially for an enemy in the common spawning pool.

Shooting them on floor 1 or with poor upgrades has really bad feedback. This, plus the death explosion, plus the difficult weakpoint, plus the armor on its face makes the bloater a really frustrating enemy. It doesn't even feel like a great elemental "anchor" enemy since it doesn't seem to really have any elemental vulnerabilities, but I don't have access to its stat block, so I can't truly know

I'm sorry if this section comes off as a little dour, but I really don't like how it feels. It does change how a player interacts with the swarm which is what was wanted for its design, but it makes floor one feel like even more of an uphill battle than it already was with the guaranteed disruptive enemy spawn. But, I'm not gonna sit here and complain without offering some real feedback on how to make it feel a little better

Elemental Vulnerability: Currently no enemy in this game has any substantial elemental vulnerabilities. Creepers have 50% on everything but they usually die before the elements can take effect, Boomticks have 5 hp so they aren't doing a great job at triggering elemental synergy, same issue with swarmers. The only enemy that really has a noticeable weakness is the shatterclaw slammer, but you'll usually be encountering it outside of major fights since it's dangerous to move into unexplored caves mid battle

Every other enemy has either no elemental vulnerability, or nothing but elemental resistances. Here's a pie chart:

https://preview.redd.it/3f1v89vnijuh1.png?width=506&format=png&auto=webp&s=bbade4477e3b96b6da1bde2aa8047e8f51948933

that shows the proportion of enemies with elemental resistances, excluding reaperworms because that's not fair to include it. If we want elemental builds to become a little more viable, it might be worth taking a second look at this. Bloaters were meant to accomplish this, but it might be an issue in the enemy roster as a whole. (Note I got this info from the wiki, which may not be 100% accurate. If it's not, sorry for spewing misinformation)

Overall health of weakpoints: It feels like bloaters were meant to counter the weakpoint/crit meta that plagues the game right now, which they do do, but again it might be an issue with weakpoints as a mechanic rather than something that can be fixed with a new enemy. Currently, most enemies have either a 2x or 3x weakpoint modifier, with gatekeepers universally having a 3x multiplier.

The gatekeeper part is arguably the most important since that's what you'll be building for throughout the entire mission, but is that much really needed, especially when they all have incredible elemental resistance? Edgestalkers and dominators both have huge weakpoint modifiers as well, and they'll be in 2/3rds of your game right off from stage 1 as well, and they both have large elemental resistances as well.

And probably the biggest culprit of the weakpoint meta, marksman. If you want to make elemental builds have more of a significant place, this enhancement might need a second look. Marksman 3 + 4 will make the player always hit the breakpoint needed to one shot a creeper with a pickaxe swing. Just these two together will always encourage weakpoint targeting builds, and arguably makes weakpoint builds better against the bloater since you have to work through its relatively high healthpool and marksman does that.

Bloater Death Explosion: I know I was just whining about it like a nerd, but this could stay and still be good. I think they just need a little bit more telegraphing, maybe pulsing like how exploders did. Or, alternatively, maybe let it friendly fire other corespawn on death? Encourage players to kill them strategically to do damage to the swarm? Just a thought.

Ending this on a not so whiny note: Again, sorry for being such a pain about the bloaters, but as a common enemy I feel like I should voice my concerns with it. But what I DO like about it in this latest experimental is how much better it got in terms of visual clarity. I was already planning to bring this up, but the devs beat me to the punch.

The big round enemies in the last experimental had issues where they'd start to clog up player vision when they die. Bloaters would obscure other enemies in their corpse, leading to some unfair situations. However, the death explosion fixed this issue, and that's AMAZING. That bit makes me like fighting them a lot more, since it shows the care the devs put into this experimental.

The only enemy that I have an issue with its corpse clarity now is the clamorhead since it has the same problem of being a big corpse that obscures vision. Maybe give it an on death explosion too? 👀 Like a sonic scream that damages players and fears enemies nearby? Just a thought.

Closing thoughts:

This experimental was WELL worth the wait, and even though I did a lot of complaining, this update is magical. The game is feeling so much better, with so much creativity and love poured into it. Update 3 is looking better and better with every new look we get into it, and I really hope the people working on the updates know how good their work is.

If I missed anything or my opinion changes, I'll probably put it in the comments, but I feel like this writeup is mostly everything I wanted to say

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u/FlakyMidnight5526 — 5 days ago

How I'd close the gap between traversal tool viability (Suggestion)

TLDR; Platform Gun and Ziplines should spawn at higher rarities

I was playing on jumble the other day and was doing some thinking about the traversal tools, and which ones I see getting picked a lot. It's usually drills and antigrav are the most in demand, followed up by a big gap, then zipline and platform gun.

Not that those two are bad, but rogue core has them less in demand. Anti-grav was designed for this game and fits it very well. Drills are great for expenite events, general navigation, and combat utility. The other two are just... okay.

Especially with the prefab nature of RC, most rooms don't have the huge gaps that make these two tools shine, since they're hyper specialized. Plus, zipline struggles without turbo. It's just never worth taking if you don't roll that upgrade.

But the reason I bought up Jumble is because of how these tools behave in jumble compared to default and it's SO much better. A purple platform gun feels SO good compared to a grey one, while drills only improve marginally with higher ratings.

A rapid high capacity full auto platform gun is SO much fun, and makes me want to use the traversal tool. Zipline launchers with more than 4 ammo (that should also be buffed, there's no reason for 8 IFGs and we're still stuck with 4 ammo), more zipline angles, and more max range are way more exciting to use!

But the issue with these two is that you'll never end up getting to use these fun upgrades outside of jumble. Currently, the only way to get higher rarity traversal tools is by randomly getting them at workbenches, but you're actively sabotaging your build by choosing these great feeling traversal tools since you're giving up an ability or weapon upgrade to use them

I'm by no means saying that ziplines or platforms are bad, they both have their uses, but my personal experience is that they're picked significantly less often than the other two, and never really are worth picking compared to the significant viability that Drills and Anti-Grav offer. Bumping their starting rarities would significantly close this gap, and brings them more in line with the baseline power that those two offer

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u/FlakyMidnight5526 — 14 days ago
▲ 115 r/RogueCore

New Throwable; Warp Grenade

The Warp Grenade is a throwable that teleports its owner to its current position upon detonation.

Can be cooked like the HE Grenade to more reliably control the distance of your teleport

Longer fuse time than HE Grenade

Found in Grenade Locker, Capacity of 3, 2 per resupply

Why add it?

Some reclaimers are seriously lacking in personal movement. Aside from Slicer's short dash and Retcon's time rewind, the only other personal mobility tool is jet boots, which a player will rarely see until later in a run.

Besides that you have traversal tools, but the drills are slow and require ground, ziplines are slow and cumbersome, with a low overall capacity, platforms require a small amount of setup to be used, and the Anti-Grav is confined to an entirely vertical space.

Introducing Warp Grenades will give all classes the option of increased mobility, with a short overall ammo capacity and at the cost of additional damage/combat utility that the other grenades provide.

The opportunity cost that a player gives up is the utility of other grenades. Your overall damage/elemental application is decreased, which affects certain classes like retcon more than it does somebody like spotter.

Some classes would opt for the extra mobility, others would opt for the elemental applications, and it's a shame that grenades only do damage. Hell, the two non-damaging grenades (IFG's and Lures) are locked behind equipment crates, so you'll never see them. Having the option to sacrifice damage for utility brings more nuance to the players decisions in that first room.

The concept itself also has a lot of uses. In a scenario where you need a little more height, throw a Warp. You need to get behind enemies to get to an objective, use a warp. You need to descend a fall that would otherwise kill you, use a warp. An astute player could even realize that they're about to get grabbed by a reaperworm, and they could pre-emptively use a grenade to free themselves.

The movement capabilities would be extremely fun, and could allow players to approach situations in different ways.

Potential issues

Could mobility creep Slicer and Retcon, but the high fuse time is intended for it to not be used as a panic/easy to use dash in the middle of combat like slicer, and retcon's mobility also comes with a full heal, allowing for her to be incredibly useful in different situations compared to this concept

Could creep traversal tools in certain scenarios, but the grenade is consumable and personal use, while the traversal tools are reusable and persistent. They'd fill different niches, but it could inadvertently encourage selfish players

Could be too powerful. Attempted to mitigate it with the low overall capacity, but the movement utility is already strong in concept

Retcon could use one of these at the end of a rewind to return to where she was before rewind ended

u/FlakyMidnight5526 — 14 days ago

Expenite Event Tier List

What makes a good Expenite Event? In my mind, the best Expenite Events are the ones that encourage teamwork, creativity, flexibility, and reward good gameplay. The worst are the ones that teamwork can't speed up, have a minimum "floor" of how long they take, are inflexible, and punish bad gameplay.

The difference between punishing bad gameplay and rewarding good gameplay will become more clear as I go on, but I'll cover the reasoning behind why I ranked them where I have them, on the basis of how well designed they are, if they reward rather than punish, if they fit the game, and if the rewards are worth it.

Secure Container:

This one needs a rework. It takes forever, limits player agency, and is really dangerous for the payout. I never even want to do secure container, even if I have the time. It's also really dependent on cave generation since if it's in a spot where there's a lot of blind spots surrounding the container, like by a cliff or other cave elements, the team kind of just has to sit there and take it.

This blackbox design worked in DRG since that game wasn't time gated, so you can trust your judgement to exit the bubble as needed, temporarily slowing down the event progress so you can address a dangerous enemy like a septic spreader. If you leave the Secure Container's field in RC, you're actively sabotaging the event progress in a time based game.

I play exclusively on TL5 Reckless Pace, and this is the MOST skipped Expenite event. Its concept is even done better by the Ramhammer (which I will get to very soon.) It has a "time floor" where to even get a small bit of Expenite you have a minimum amount of time you have to spend before payout without any actual way to reduce it.

The secure container is the perfect example of rewarding good gameplay vs. punishing bad. A good player and a bad player will have the exact same time to complete this event no matter what if they just stick in the bubble. A player is never rewarded for playing well with extra expenite or a reduced event timer, they are only punished for leaving the circle.

Plus, this might be the most friendly-fire riddled event in the game, thanks to the blind spot issue I mentioned earlier. Any AOE will be hitting you and your team, and you kind of just have to tank it. But you can't spread out and stratify your work, since everyone HAS to be in the bubble or else the event becomes exponentially more likely to kill your team.

Secure container is an actively bad expenite event, and I really hope it gets a second look soon. It's not even interesting conceptually, it doesn't fit with the game's pace, it has very little nuance or unique ways a team can approach it, it has almost no redeeming qualities besides being simple, which might not even be redeeming.

Ramhammer

I said I'd get to it soon, the Ramhammer is a marginally better version of the Secure Container, but not by much.

They're fundamentally the same event if we're being honest. You have to stand in the bubble, event progress speeds up if all 4 dwarves are inside the bubble, and you're rewarded with the exact same amount of expenite. The only real difference is that the Ramhammer is a much cooler set piece, at the cost of being SLOWER than secure container!

I like the generation of the Ramhammer, it better suits the event type than the random nature of the Secure Container, but it is extremely stacked against the team. If it spawns in an open cave, the pillars only really act to help the corespawn, acting as cover and conduits for grounded enemies to navigate to the team. The ramhammer itself acts as "cover" but it also favors the corespawn, since cover only really helps against ranged enemies while all other enemy types benefit more from the cover than you do. Maybe you can stand on top of it to get a better angle at the cost of being more vulnerable? No wait, they made it so you can't stand on top of it.

"You will stand in a bubble and you will like it!" - Ghostship releasing rogue core

I think this generation would be a lot better if it were put into the cave wall itself, so the tunnel is totally enclosed and the team only has to worry about enemies from two directions. Because as it stands, this event leaves the team very vulnerable from attacks on all sides, with no opportunity to reposition without being severely punished.

And update 2 introduced a soft nerf to both this and secure container with the dominators. Now you have ranged enemies that you're designed to flank for quick kills, but by flanking them you have to exit the bubble so you get punished for trying to interact with the new enemy! But if you don't address them, their projectiles take up like 60% of your operable space.

The team is disproportionately punished for doing ramhammer compared to any of the other events, and they can't even speed it up through any means. Teamwork is at a minimum since it's a very rigid design, the same issues with AOE persist from secure container, it's almost never worth doing. Its only saving grace over secure container is that it's a fun set piece and slightly more interesting presentation wise, but it might be even worse gameplay wise.

Rock Cracker

Another event with a time floor. You can't speed up this event, it will always take exactly the same amount of timer segments, with only a chance for it to take up more timer segments. It doesn't encourage teamwork, it has a very basic set piece, and it has very little interesting going on with it.

The only reason it's ranked higher than the other two bad ones is that it doesn't make you stand in a bubble, so you aren't restricted in movement as much. You still are, since you still have to be nearby to repair the rock crackers, but it's not as much of a hard limit.

It gets negative points for how ABYSMAL its collision is though. Enemies can just walk straight through the rock crackers, making dealing with repairing a lot worse than it has to be. If you try and defend a teammate who's fixing a rock cracker, the corespawn will just phase through the machine and camp inside, hitting the person that you otherwise would've defended.

It doesn't do anything that an event should do right, most of the complaints from the other two still hold up, it just doesn't do the bad things as bad as other events do.

Sealed Vault

We're out of the bad events. The gap between this and Rock Crackers is huge. The issue with Sealed Vault is it still has some of the issues that the previous ones had, but it encourages teamwork, doesn't discourage failure, and lets players fill niches with the different traversial tools.

Each team has a choice to make. Do they do each of the nodes in a group of 4, beating the event more safely but taking longer, or do they split up, speeding up the event but risking downs/the event taking longer.

This one is very reliant on cave gen with not much the team can do about it though. The traversial tools help remedy this problem, where you can zipline, anti grav, and drill to the different security nodes, but sometimes you start the event and realize you can't reasonably finish it, then you're stuck with the event's wave for the rest of the floor.

Also, depositing the chunk on this one is noticably more dangerous than the other events since you'll be operating at points close to the main storage platform, and there's the whole delay with it coming up

It also has a time floor associated with it, but it encourages teams to decide how they want to interact with that time floor. Overall a fine event, but not without its share of design hiccups.

Drones

I like drones. They're flexible, encourage teamwork, but get gyped by cave gen HARD.

You can coordinate with your team when to jump the drones, spotter dart then nuke them to get out of the first phase of the event quickly. It encourages good teamwork and fundamentals of the game. But if some knobhead shoots it when the team isn't ready, it'll just start shitting out drones that harass everyone else.

Once you get it, 1: the drones corpses have weird connectivity desyncs, so for one person the drone could be somewhere different than it is on someone elses client. This creates scenarios where you assume someone's going after the drone, but they really aren't on their screen. And 2: where it "calls" an expenite deposit is really strange.

It mostly does the cave you're in, but sometimes it will call it from across the map and you just reasonably can't get the node you worked hard for. And even then, unless you have drills, it can take FOREVER and be really dangerous for solo players. 3 hit terrain also makes this event really tedious, once again if you don't have drills.

Something I do like is how it gives the team flexibility. You can choose how many deposits you mine, how much of it you want to mine, it's not an "all or nothing event" and I think that's something great to have in the game, even if it has its share of problems. It also lets players with drills excited about their choices, and it feels great. Even if I think there's another event that does this job better.

It both encourages success and punishes failure, so it's a heavy mix of good and bad. Overall of middling quality, but better than some.

Spectercore Manufacturing

This one also has the issue of there being a flat time floor, but it has the benefit of being very safe to do into overtime. Large enemies from outside can't get in, and you're safe from the worms while inside. Until you boot into the experimental that is, they'll just dig in if they can't reach you.

The set level design of this event really helps the event, because it gives players the opportunity to find where in the facility works best for them. The event as a whole though hurts from some bad event steps.

Repair the projectors is the worst, it's a boring hold E prompt. Then realigning the pressure valves, it's fun when you learn what to do but the objective is poorly communicated to the player. Then coolant, I like the teamwork that goes into it, then the puzzle thing since good communication, teamwork, and good reactions help the game go faster, which is what I like in an event.

You're encouraged to play with your team, it's inflexible in how you do it but that also works in its favor, with a unique mindset of when you activate the event, but it has the negative of the skill floor. I like this event a lot, but it does suffer from some clashing elements between it and the level.

Spile Pumps

Spile Pumps used to be a lot higher, but I thought about it a little more and it got bumped down a few spots. We're now in the exclusively good events, but Spile Pumps gets hurt by its effort to reward ratio in the sense that it offers too much expenite for the time invested.

Spile pumps, especially in 2 pump levels, can take 15 seconds to complete. That's shorter than anything else and it's not even close. I'm not saying that this fast completion time is bad, but for the same 300 expenite as something like sealed vault, it might hurt the ecosystem of the expenite events.

It doesn't really encourage teamwork either in the way that the pumpjacks did. Each person drags out a hose and connects it, maybe with help from someone with platforms or drills. Besides that, each individual person just drags out a hose across what is usually a flat plane, and you effortlessly get a ton of expenite.

If they made use of radical cave generation to place the pumps in akward places, it would probably help the risk:reward ratio, but as it stands it offers way too little friction to the general player. Maybe if it spawned more pumps in higher player lobbies? Like more spile pumps so the team has to spend more time on the event?

But the event does fill a very important role as the one event that's really consistantly doable solo. Doing spile pumps is really good for solo reclaimers, since it balances out the nearly impossible solo events found earlier, and sometimes later in this list

Cargo Bay

Cargo Bay is the PERFECT example of encouraging creativity. You can go for the slow but reliable method of clearing it by scanning the missing cargo, which encourages teamplay in a similar way to the hacking pods in DRG (assembly line passing the barrels along), but an individual player can use the level to their advantage to clear it faster.

If the lost cargo is in an inconvenient spot like, oh I don't know, IN THE BUCKET WELL

https://preview.redd.it/w1luocha1qsh1.png?width=2090&format=png&auto=webp&s=ed479ca0a98af36c374eaea96a88b54f0294982b

then the team can opt to group up enemies to trigger the pad, with that sometimes being faster than lugging the barrels to the cargo door, at the cost of it being significantly more dangerous. This event succeeds on every metric, and the best "All or nothing" expenite event.

Expenite Transmutation

You could say this one is all or nothing, but you don't have to stay in the circle for it to finish so I consider it to be a more flexible event.

Expenite Transmutation is incredible. You work together as a team, covering your weaknesses and approaching combat in a different way than normal, and NOT ridiculously cramped. If you increased Ramhammer's area to the same as Expenite Transmutation I would've bumped it up at least 1 spot.

The team has to decide what enemies are worth killing outside the circle and balance that with killing enemies inside a circle. A more experienced team could force more waves to spawn to risk high enemies with the reward of TONS of expenite.

It's one of the few moments in this game where I feel like I'm fighting with my team, not just besides them. There's just enough space to make it feel like your team is helping you without them getting in the way.

Plus, getting a good Expenite Transmutation is really fun. It has the highest potential payout, which actually corresponds to the effort put in (unlike some vaults that don't have to be re-mentioned.) Overall, incredibly designed, but just a touch too simple.

Geode Processor

Geode Processor is great, because it's flexible in how you complete it. You can play it safe and only pop a few, easy to reach geodes, or you can spend more time popping more geodes, but at the risk of having to dig around searching for them, and the risk of triggering a wave.

You don't have to get every geode, which is just a better version of the flexibility I mentioned earlier in the entry about drones. You have to weigh what geodes are worth it in proportion to your remaining expenite vs the risk of triggering the rift.

It also encourages teamwork in a really interesting way, where players split themselves into different roles. Some people will be digging, some will be opening geodes, some will be defending the team, it's an amazing team oriented event with a lot of nuance.

People can also feel like they're being important with their traversal tools. Anti-grav emitters can trim down on the time between geodes traveling to the geode opener and power drills speed up geode collection, and lets the team more easily search for geodes in hard to reach areas of the dirt.

The best part of this event is the risk vs reward, as mentioned before. Pop just a few for a lot of expenite without triggering a wave, or go all in for more expenite than you'd get from other events. It succeeds at every metric an event should, but sometimes is a little excruciating if you get a teammate who feels the need to pop every geode, even if you've gotten the valuable one.

Research Experiment

Probably controversial to put it this high up, but I think this is the perfect example of a good Expenite event. NOTE: I'm considering it with how it's supposed to function. As it stands, it's completely harmless. If you wanted to count it with it not functioning, put it below cargo bay.

First, there's the respectable time floor you have to put into it. It provides friction because you have to coordinate killing it with your team. Luring it to more optimal positions, making sure to not kill it too fast so it can move off of its containment unit so you can't botch the event as a whole, but it can become a real problem if you leave it for too long.

Every traversial tool and class has tools to make this event flow better. Guardian can force it to reposition or stun, spotter helps the team kill it faster, falconer can stun it, retcon can lure it into better positions, and slicer can provide essential burst damage and escape.

And then its extraction is the best example in the game of offering flexibility in expenite extraction. It's up to you and only you to mine however much expenite you want to. You turn your timer into expenite, if you go into overtime, YOU misjudged. It rewards players who can estimate their ability to handle overtime

And cryo builds have an opportunity to shine. If you freeze it, you guarantee a faster extraction, at the cost of not being able to completely maximize the amount of expenite you get. You weigh if you want more expenite by mining it, or less expenite by leaving it.

It interacts perfectly with the timer, teamplay, combat, and succeeds at everything an expenite event should try and do. There's no flat time floor, but you need to consider a lot of things to get the absolute most you can out of the event, and that's what makes it the perfect event.

Closing thoughts

If any of you disagree with my placement or reasoning, or have tips I might not have considered, drop them below! I'm more than happy to see what other people's thoughts are about expenite events, and I know opinions on them vary wildly

u/FlakyMidnight5526 — 14 days ago

Alteration: Expenite Nodule Extraction (suggestion)

As Rogue Core updates have gone on, I feel like team cooperation and friction have begun to go down. With the new addition that corespawn by default drop expenite, players have even less incentive to work with each other to reach hard to reach expenite veins. However, Expenite events are AMAZING for teamplay and synergy, and a lot of them are the only times I feel like I'm truly working with my team

This alteration adds a second expenite event to each floor, encouraging the team to play together to get both cleared by the time that the timer's finished.

I think the Expenite events are one of the least controversial methods of obtaining expenite. Expenite veins have gotten flack since the game launched from new players, not understanding the time investment required for expenite gathering is a part of how the game is designed. On the other hand, Enemies dropping Expenite in the newest experimental has gotten some negative feedback for being annoying to tediously run around in rooms that you've already cleared and pick up Expenite.

This alteration could be a great way to increase and encourage teamplay, while making every expenite earned feel like more of a battle.

Potential issues:

It wouldn't solve the issue of players being confused about how expenite gathering relates to the timer, and the risk/reward that inherently comes with it.

Could maybe yield less expenite than a standard mission, with the benefit of a consistently high amount expenite guaranteed to be earned

A very "All or Nothing" concept. A team has to finish every event that get any expenite, unless it's something like surveyor drones or dig site

Is it a good idea? You let me know

u/FlakyMidnight5526 — 18 days ago
▲ 117 r/RogueCore

Concept for a new Heavy Weapon: The TRAR

Weapon Idea

The Trifork is a Laser Railgun that fires radioactive laser beams, and can be charged to release piercing projectiles that explode into "fallout" zones with lingering clouds of radiation.

The Trifork can also "Suck" up radiation in the environment by holding the reload button to contribute to its next charge attack.

It can suck up radiation like the lithovac from different sources of radiation, like the Radioactive Exclusion zone's radioactive crystals, can eat AOE fields of radiation shot by/left behind by voidkin dominators, also letting players get rid of those manually instead of having to wait for them to dissipate on their own. If you have trouble with the dominators, maybe pick the trifork?

It can also suck up charge from previously fired projectile's fallout zones, giving back charge proportional to the remaining lifetime of the radiation, letting players "reposition" previously fired shots after they've killed corespawn, instead of leaving behind massive areas of friendly-fire radiation

Why does it fit?

Rogue Core's been doing a great job of fleshing out its elements, but Radiation has felt noticeably left behind. It's kind of stuck on its own, with no gun, grenade, or reliable way to apply it. This makes sense, Radiation is very powerful, but it leaves it feeling left behind ATM. I'm sure there are plans in the future to flesh the element out more as well.

It fits well as a heavy weapon due to its powerful elemental attribution and stage control, while also doing something heavy weapons don't really do at the moment: both be able to be a standalone weapon, or compliment a players existing weapons.

Obviously it would be a great crowd clearing weapon and be powerful on its own, but the ability to apply radiation will create the "boils" for high health targets, complimenting single target weapons like the Charger or M1000 and making it stronger than it would've been as a standalone weapon.

The Radiation Recycling mechanic also works well at enabling player interaction with the environment. We all love it when we're running a cryo build and we see an Expenite Detonator. Being able to flip an otherwise negative encounter into something a player can be excited for is a great way to make players feel excited about the otherwise hostile environment around them.

Radioactive Crystals give players using the trifork the ability to exploit the biome around them, and dominators give players the opportunity to flip an otherwise extremely oppressive enemy ability on its head and work for their team instead.

Sucking up a radioactive crystal will eventually disable it and dominator clouds will have their lifetime reduced drastically, so the player can't infinitely camp these level elements, but it would allow players to clear a path from otherwise debilitating hazards.

The Trifork could fill both niches needed for a weapon in Rogue Core, being both single target and AOE crowd clearing potential, while also supplying your team with an opportunity to do even more damage by exploiting the radioactive boils that you create

Visual and Sound design

Down the barrel of the gun is an uncharged crystal from the Radioactive Exclusion zone. As the gun is charged, it will visually draw in wispy green lines, charging the crystal within, similar to the shard diffractor in DRG.

The lime green elements of the gun will pulse softly when not firing, but as the overall charge of the weapon increases, the green will light up until the weapon is ready to fire off a fully charged shot.

When the player is holding a shot at maximum charge, the other sounds of the cave become extremely muted to the user, like the cave is holding its breath in anticipation for the gun firing. Once fired, there will be a tiny electrical whine, then the impact explosion, with the audio returning back to normal

u/FlakyMidnight5526 — 19 days ago

Shield link should be a counter to shield disruption

I like shield link enough, I think it's the most well balanced active perk in the game along with berzerker, but I think it should be able to cancel out shield disruption for a brief period of time.

Not with its passive part of the perk, but when you give someone a shield, they should just get the shield for the duration of the effect. It gives counterplay to one of the more disruptive warnings in the game, and could make it an actual contender for a player's active perk on haz 5+.

Right now shield disruption is Iron will dashslop. because you're inherently more vulnerable after being revived on shield disruption than normal so a safety net and more mobility is better than the other active perks, but giving shield link extra utility would introduce a lot of counterplay and opportunity cost.

Giving shield link this niche would make players ask "Do I give up my dash so I can make my team bulkier during the entire mission?" Which would be more than effective at giving players viable options for their own survival and their teams.

I think the way all the shield related upgrades are made entirely useless during shield disruption isn't really that fun or interesting, it limits the players in a way that doesn't give much nuance, I wish their effects still happened so players were incentivized to use additional utility, not disincentivized to use interesting gear

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u/FlakyMidnight5526 — 2 months ago

I really love the thrashers, I just wish they were more common. As it stands I only see a couple a game

u/FlakyMidnight5526 — 2 months ago
▲ 242 r/RogueCore

There should be a slight chance for different variants of bosses

I like rogue core's bosses for the most part, I think the Molaktula could use a little toning down but besides that they're all really good. I just think that for something you encounter every single dive, they can all end up feeling a little same-y after a while.

I think they should have a small chance for different variants, just to spice up the boss fight from time to time. Slight changes to make the boss itself feel a little more unique every run, and to change the way the team will play around each boss. I made 3 beautifully illustrated concepts to demonstrate my point.

The tall-laktula is a Molaktula, but really tall. So tall it scrapes the cave ceiling. So tall you'll have to look up to shoot at it. This means you have to switch between fighting the boss and making sure there's no small enemies sneaking up on you. It's so tall, it doesn't trigger close range proximity.

The big-laktula is a Molaktula, but really big. Because it's bigger, it has a much larger health pool than the standard Molaktula, moves slower, but to compensate enters its invulnerability phase far less often. It also attacks with its ranged options far less frequently. It chases down players and attempts to squash them underfoot.

The Ebo-laktula has a constantly regenerating ebonite shield that covers its weakpoints, which must be broken with melee damage before the team can attack it.

I don't want the bosses identities to be changed up all that much, I think all 3 are really solid, but I think little variants of the fights could go a long way to making the end of the mission feel more interesting than it currently is. Kind of like how balatro changes what hands you can use, or in hades how the bosses will sometimes have altered movesets/elements.

u/FlakyMidnight5526 — 2 months ago
▲ 252 r/RogueCore

Can spotter's scan affect invisible creepers? Please?

I know it's not that big of an issue, but it really pisses me off whenever my team picks invisible creepers when I'm playing spotter. You can still see them on the radar thing, but the scan can't pick them up. I'd also be good with the radar not seeing the invisible creepers. It's just really inconsistent that half of spotter's kit can pick them up, and the other half can't

I love the highlight ability, it's probably in my top 3 favorite. Giving your team so much information to work with is really satisfying, and a spotter that actually uses it is incredibly valuable to the team. However, this ability becomes FAR less useful once you choose invisible creepers. We'll be in the middle of a wave and I see a huge amount of invisible creepers coming from another angle, and I just can't warn my team about them.

Or we'll be exiting a tunnel, I see about a hundred dots hanging around the exit, I scan, nothing, my team takes a huge amount of damage. "Oh but it ruins the challenge of invisible creepers" so why do they still show up on the radar? I already know where the creepers are, but I don't want to have to ping each individual creeper to give my team that information

u/FlakyMidnight5526 — 2 months ago

Mutator idea: Gravitational reshuffle

Now that the draft system for the perks and the timer display have been reworked, I think rogue core can benefit most from a rework to its cave generation. I've had very few missions where the cave gen led to interesting scenarios with my team, leaving every single dive feeling the same.

I came up with a new mutator idea: gravitational reshuffle, with 2 variants. Upwards Shuffle or downwards Shuffle. In upwards shuffle, every floor will be one long climb upwards, where the team will have to use its traversal tools in tandem to make it from one chamber to another in enough time to clear out the cave.

Once the players make it through the in between hallways, tools like the platform gun or drills will help the team make space to fight and navigate to chamber objectives, like moving the toolbox or getting the team to the bio-booster.

The first chamber of a dive will always be normal, before the rest of the cave and all subsequent floors will be shifted 90 degrees either up or down. The ending elevator will be rotated 90 degrees so the team will have a place to stand and wait for the team to group up. It will also arrive like this, so the entire team isn't immediately dumped to their death upon arriving to a new floor.

This idea takes pre-existing assets and presents them to the player in new and unique ways, turning standard chambers into either a full game ascent or descent. Bugs would come from above or below, changing your angles of attack from a 180 dome to a 360 sphere.

This will force the team to operate in uncomfortable chambers where the corespawn have the advantage, naturally having longer sightlines up and down. Fighting in the large chambers will usually entail careful close quarters movement where slipping up could lead to you plummeting to your death and falling a chamber back, where your team has to rush to revive you through either an enormous fall or a nerve wracking climb back.

The large chambers that would normally be safe to fight in become huge pits with small floors that the team has to be cautious fighting in, and curvy hallways stay the same. It also makes the overwatch bio booster card have a use. The way you use and think about your weapons and grenades would change, what builds are and aren't viable, equipment crates would gain a lot more use as the team wants more traversal options for team play or individual freedom, it would bring a lot more nuance and variety for players.

As for enemy behavior, I think this idea could be incredibly easy for ghostship to implement, as the corespawn can already follow players perfectly fine through the existing vertical cave elements. Aerial enemies like the drifters or the Rafkan also have an advantage, as they can reposition vertically a lot faster than the reclaimers, coming from blind spots and applying fast pressure that the corespawn couldn't.

This also encourages players to fight in the close quarters level elements that otherwise would be unoptimal to fight in, because the major chambers are so drastically different, square hallways would remain nearly unchanged. This also encourages players to pick close quarters weapons if the team is coordinated in where they choose their fights.

I think this would give players who are looking to spice up level generation an outlet to try drastically new builds and styles of play. It will also give players a reason to interact with indoors combat (yes I know everything is indoors because we're in a cave, you know what I mean) and make the traversal tools shine even more than they already do.

I don't know how hard it would be to implement on the developer's parts, I doubt weapons crates, workbenches, bio boosters, and other interactable things were meant to be placed sideways, but enemy AI wouldn't have to be adjusted, and I'm certain terrain is in the same boat.

I think as a concept this would greatly impact how players choose their weapons, perks, cooldowns, and how they think about engaging with a threat/obstacle. It would also throw in an additional threat to each and every encounter of plummeting to your death, encouraging situational awareness and coordinated play. Or it might be really annoying, let me know what you think.

TLDR; Mission modifier that flips the terrain either 90 degrees up or down

u/FlakyMidnight5526 — 2 months ago

Mission control are a bunch of greedy fossils

When a squad goes down completely, we fail the mission. Reduced rewards and all, because we failed the mission, right? This debriefing from the website shows that's WRONG! Even if a squad is KIA, as long as the MULE makes it back with the objective, the mission is a success. So tell me then, why do we get nada for not making it back to the extraction? We DEMAND compensation for the thousands of missions dwarves have succeeded on, but didn't return from. The mission is not a failure if you consider it as a success.

u/FlakyMidnight5526 — 2 months ago

Do you ever think we'll find our way up here?

This floating bit of hoxxes is in every concept art of the planet, but do you think we'll ever find ourselves actually going up there? I noticed it was on the menu map and I thought it was a little weird that they included it in this UI when I don't actually think you can see this floaty bit while looking out the ramrod. Or maybe I just didn't notice it? Regardless, I think it's weird that it's in this menu when it really didn't have to be

u/FlakyMidnight5526 — 2 months ago

What’s your Most HATED Fish?

I think that, generally speaking, we all know which fish gets on people’s nerves the most. But what fish takes the bottom spot for most people? Vote on which fish is your least favorite so we can see once and for all, definitively, the most hated fish in animal crossing is.

View Poll

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u/FlakyMidnight5526 — 3 months ago
▲ 14 r/Pikmin

How Pikmin 4’s wild Pikmin could have made the game so much better (and how they fumbled the bag)

Wild pikmin were a very interesting concept. Being able to earn ANY type of Pikmin mid-cave was super fun and worked to combat a lot of the issues a casual player had with the caves in Pikmin 2. Before, if a type of Pikmin died, you wouldn’t be able to complete the caves in. If there was buried treasure and you ran out of whites, those pokos would be lost media. But wild Pikmin worked against this. It was never a substitute for essential types of Pikmin, but it was usually enough to just scrape by.

But I think this mechanic had a lot more that it could have done, the game just chose not to use it in a meaningful way. In Pikmin 4, wild Pikmin were usually what was directly required for cave completion. The root of the problem is that there was a severe overrepresentation of a small amount of hazards, and Pikmin that didnt directly counter a hazard would never be picked for wild Pikmin.

Think about it, Pikmin 4’s most used hazards are Ice, water, and Fire. Because wild Pikmin usually only match the required hazards, you’ll primarily get Ice, Blues, and Reds. Especially ice Pikmin. You’ll usually have almost 200 ice Pikmin before you even get their onion because shiggy miggy saw ice Pikmin and said “I can make a boatload of cash in plushie sales from this. Let’s plant this industry!”

And that’s the issue, ice Pikmin specifically are extremely common in these caves. Theyre found in 9 caves over the course of the game, usually in numbers higher than 15 in a single game. And I know some of you might be thinking “it’s not a big deal, if you don’t like it go back to playing Pikmin bloom.” This is a problem because 8 of these 9 caves are in the hero’s hideaway or earlier, meaning in the vast majority of caves before you get the ice onion you’ll be getting an ice onions worth of Pikmin income. Pik-cum if you will.

By contrast, winged Pikmin and rock Pikmin combined only appear in 8 caves in the entire game, usually in numbers equal to or less than 10, meaning you will have 40 or less of these Pikmin before you get their onions. As a reminder, you’ll easily have a hundred ice Pikmin by the third area. If you’re not gonna give us the Pikmin then don’t even include them, why are they here.

You get a grand total of 10 winged Pikmin in the below grade discotheque and don’t see them again until the ultimate testing range, where you get another 10. In the time between those two appearances you probably got another 40 ice Pikmin. I know I’m bitching about ice a lot but they really are America’s most wanted, but the core issue that ruined this mechanic that had a lot of potential is that the distribution of wild Pikmin is so heavily in favor of the original 3 types plus ice and the other 4 are left with the scraps.

Another one is rocks. Theyre first seen in the kingdom of beasts, and it makes sense for them to be here. There’s a lot of crystals and it’s a more combat based cave. I can’t wait to see these fun and unique Pikmin again soon!

You do not see a significant amount of rock Pikmin until the frozen inferno and plunder palace, where you get 10 and 5 rock Pikmin respectively.

I could keep going for purples and whites but you get the point. A big problem with Pikmin 4 is Pikmin bloat, you have all these great types but none of them get to breathe because you’re drip fed them among getting a garden hose of ice Pikmin blasted straight down your throat. Wild Pikmin could have been the solution to this, the game had every opportunity to chuck in some wild whites or a few candypop buds into some caves, but they didn’t and that’s a shame.

If you get to the final area and didnt get the white onion, you’ll have max 40 whites to use in an area that recommends them and has a billion poison hazards. This could have been easily avoided if you just threw them into a few more caves or just increased the number of these more niche Pikmin types, because unless you have an elemental immunity that’s not poison you aren’t seeing much playtime

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u/FlakyMidnight5526 — 5 months ago