u/Global_Bag_4590

What if the kids at the school retrieved a solar-generated Television set? Would their friendships dissolve into madness over who gets to own the only source of entertainment?

What if the kids at the school retrieved a solar-generated Television set? Would their friendships dissolve into madness over who gets to own the only source of entertainment?

u/Global_Bag_4590 — 12 days ago

Talanov wrote an article (available here, https://quantitativesocionics.org/miscellaneous/examples-of-borderline-intertype-accentuations ), showcasing how, in his system, a person can lie between two types (rather than being rigidly defined in one) by having traits of both, creating "intertype accentuations". I created a new batch of intertype profiles (made by finding the sheerest commonalities in terms of functional and trait profiles, and then caricaturing that peak). This is not supposed to be a definitive list, or an exhaustive one. Bear in mind, an IEI/EII intertype is neither an IEI nor are they an EII, but something in between. This isn't a commentary on the types themselves (certainly not on any type outside of Talanov's system).

>Average value (ESE, LII): Accentuated altruism, loves children and does everything to secure the happiness of the "next generation", loves beauty and believes the development of liberal culture (with open access to the arts and sciences) will guarantee the happy longevity of the human race (and that restricting these things will guarantee its doom), principled opponent of racial and sexual discrimination, believes in universal education, literacy and the importance of intellectual diversity

>Average value (LIE, SLI): Strives to create and fund reliable technologies for particular groups, pragmatist who adapts to the market without using beautified means or conventions, does not care about the beauty of either their products or their partners, does not understand art very well and tries to avoid anything that communicates any annoying social values, wants to fill their wallet and nothing more

>Average value (ILI, ILE): Ready to leave any society or group that fails to satisfy his desire for novelty, likes to play with meanings and leave people bewildered as to the sense of his words, does not unify with anyone and sees those who seek ultimate satisfaction in love or human pathos as apes in a self-constructed zoo, mentally free from prejudices of every kind, enjoys feasting on various ideas that usually spit on social norms, sets himself apart from others deliberately

>Average value (IEE, SLE): Conformist-accentuation, team-player who believes in the value of society and the military, likes to parade their allegiances in strange ways, not afraid of people in the slightest and associates with people from various rank-levels in society, parrots propaganda thoughtlessly and imposingly

>Average value (ESI, ILE): Revolutionary-accentuation, stands for himself and his own interests (and calls others to do likewise), does not tolerate monkey-brained leaders and blazes his own trails in life, hates the aristocracy and the elite no matter what society he is apart of, cannot stand "herd-brained sheeple"

>Average value (LII, LIE): Designer-accentuation, depends on methodical planning and long sessions of experimental design before giving anything to the public, always takes the interests of his "customers" into account before updating or adjusting anything he makes, principled opponent of governmental involvement in business, usually works from dawn to dusk

>Average value (EIE, IEE): Highly enjoys discussing gossip, believes everyone should know as much people as possible; no one should hide who they are from society, typically in a state of amazement (towards themselves or others), likes shows with deep societal meanings and refers to them often in conversation, has strong body-image issues and does not know how to present in society (playing with different themes over their life-time)

>Average value (EII, IEI): Wallflower-accentuation, highly unlikely to stray from family nest in adulthood; sticks close to loved ones and does whatever they say to preserve bonds, has difficulty communicating with people they've hurt (if any); prefers to avoid conflict at all costs by resorting to avoidant behavior; prone to accepting abuse otherwise, tries to make a living through creative disciplines but typically does not have the discipline to practice diligently; takes up various odd-jobs as a result (which she loses periodically because of her already mentioned lack of discipline), despite lack of real skills believes they will eventually blossom creatively

>Average value (ESE, LSE): Workhorse accent, a skilled and generous host, believes in the importance of hospitality and instills such values to their family, likely to have lots of children and to find meaning in supporting them, believes wholeheartedly in community values and strives to maintain a pristine social reputation (not for fame but to avoid shame), works constantly; hands and feet are always moving in the household (either cooking or cleaning, becomes bored in the absence of chores), enjoys long-term responsibilities and does not avoid her obligations, probably spanks her kids (but does not enjoy it, she only does so to correct self-destructive behavior)

>Average value (EIE, LIE): Business-savant accentuation, well-researched in various fields in business and keeps up with her opponents and competitors; monitoring their decisions in order to stay ahead, tries to always guess what others might want from them; does not believe in favors done for them outside of self-interest, makes decisions that threaten her livelihood in order to improve it in the future, gambles in all areas of life, probably into game-theory

>Average value (ILE, SLE): Rule-breaking accentuation, commits risky actions for the sake of goals people can scarcely understand, likes to "kick" their leaders, unconcerned about the consequences of their actions for particular individuals; only cares about what they mean societally or globally, hates the protective dome of common life; finds the white picket-fence nuclear household ideal to be insipid; could not stand being a family-man, wants to know the world as it stands beyond the aesthetic distortions of culture, a wild and out-of-control playmate

>Average value (ESI, EII): Family-teacher accent, lecture artist; enjoys instilling morals into their children (who they would, without hesitation, die for), their children usually end up fearing disappointing them (for reasons they themselves can scarcely comprehend, as the values they are given are not entirely clear), a calm and motherly presence, greatly reserved around strangers but quickly sympathizes with their struggles, does not compromise with moral corruption; stays firm against moral poisons of all sorts, never forgets what others have done for them throughout their life

>Average value (ILI, EII): Avoidant-accent, never forgets her mistakes and inertly fixates on her many errors (which seem numerous to her), despite being so hard on herself she is willing to associate and work with problematic individuals, does not experiment socially and keeps close to her small knit of friends (who you could probably count on one hand), sits in her mind and monitors her thoughts from a distance, extremely hard to provoke

Again, these are not commentaries on the types in systems outside of Talanov (in SHS the meanings of the types are different, for instance). These descriptions were not invented or free-balled, they are based on sheer trait averages; for instance, the EII/ESI share constructivism, rationality, seriousness, introversion, statics, and feeling; you could argue that this is still too vague to make a description, but that's only if you are not familiar with the clusters Talanov has collected for each dichotomy and function. Again, these are based in Talanov's system, not someone else's.

If you'd like to learn more about Talanov and discuss his work with fellow enthusiasts, there is a discord server dedicated to his research and his system (other socionics systems being welcome, of course): https://discord.gg/6gcWXARAWk

Here is also my first batch: https://www.reddit.com/r/Socionics/comments/1t044xk/a_list_of_intertype_border_accentuations_in_the/

reddit.com
u/Global_Bag_4590 — 17 days ago

Danidin has, on his vk page, and also listed and translated on the quantitativesocionics.com website, trait sums which detail the "outputs" of a certain combination of valued functions and signs, such as "Ne + Peripheral = Willing to help others without expecting anything in return" for example. I attempted to use this extensive list as a possible tool for typing fictional characters (although he didn't intend it as a diagnostic tool). There are probably several problems with this approach, but I think it might be interesting. I'm using this on my favorite series as I am most familiar with the characters involved (I have thousands of hours on this game). Bear in mind, this is within Talanov's system, which means types are gradient rather than rigid, meaning you can be between one, two, or three of the classical "types". The meanings of the types themselves are different in SHS, which people are most familiar with.

>Clementine: FiSe intermediate to FiNe (introvert, rational, ethics, sensing, descending, democrat, negativist, constructivist, static, was a quiet and observant child, "Fi + Ni = Quiet, prefers not to draw unnecessary attention", follows Lee's rules for years; never forgets what people sacrificed for her, "Di + rationality = Discipline", patiently teaches AJ everything she knows; instructs him on the dealings of the world, "Di + Fi = Ability to patiently educate someone", thinks about others before herself always, "Di + Ne = First thinks about other group members, and then about themselves", joined the New Frontier simply to provide for AJ; did not care about their politics or their group-interests, "Fi + Descending = More interested in the upbringing of the individual than in remaking society as a whole", capable of forgiving most of her enemies after they've done her wrong, "Fi + Ne = Ability to empathize with people, believing in the best in everyone", almost gives up her life for AJs safety; tries to take care of AJ the way Lee took care of her, "Fi + Di = Patience and selflessness", after S1 makes judgments about people's motives quickly; always observing others and paying attention to their behavior, "Fi + Se + Di = Attentiveness to other people, ability to read the concrete motives of their actions", lives a hard life in the apocalypse; dedicates that life to looking after AJ; does not sacrifice others for her own pleasure; does not complain about much, "Ne + Statics = Non-acquisitiveness, indifference to wealth, appearance and bodily pleasures", feels she understands others very well; does not believe the people around her are enigmas, "Ne + Fi = Humanism - the ability to understand another person, their hidden potential", afraid of failing the people around her, "Fi + Rationality = afraid of letting others down", able to quickly read the status of other people's relationships, "Fi + Ethics = Attention to the relationships of the people around them")

>Lee Everett: FiSe (FiNe accent; ntrovert, rational, ethics, sensing, democrat, descending, negativist, constructivist, static, takes care of child that isn't his and patiently educates her about surviving in a new broken world, "Fi + Di = Patience and selflessness, educator type", very down-to-earth; not invested in anything other than taking care of Clementine and keeping her alive, "Fi + Descending = More interested in the upbringing of the individual than in remaking society as a whole", largely able to teach and communicate with Clementine without her feeling talked down to or insulted (she didn't like that at all), "Fi + Statics = Ability to maintain a sense of self-respect in oneself and others, to create a psychologically respectful atmosphere of communication", does not caricature Clementine as being "just a little girl"; takes her questions seriously and does not dismiss her perspective just because of her age, "Qi + Democracy = Interacts with others as equal individuals", was furious with his wife for lying to him about her affair; accidentally kills her accomplice, "Qi + Statics = Intolerance of lies", stays focused on Clementine's safety for months; does not swerve from his mission, "Di + rationality = Discipline", seldom thinks about himself; his thoughts are mostly spent on others, "Di + Ne = First thinks about other group members, and then about themselves", saves Clementine's life and continues to protect her despite her both not being his child and not being able to (largely) protect him in return, "Ne + Peripheral = Willing to help others without expecting anything in return", a good walker-killer and fighter; never backs down from a fight, "Se + Sensorics = Physical agility and dexterity in quick, injury-prone interactions with material objects (able to grab, strike, yank, break in the right place, etc.)", stays extremely cool-headed despite the chaos of his environment, "Se + Peripheral = Alien to obsessive suspicions and disturbing fantasies")

>Kenny: SeTi inverted to ethics (FeNi accent; extravert, irrational, ethics, intuitive, ascending, aristocrat, negativist, ascending, constructivist, static, known for his explosive reactions, "Qe + Extroversion = fast onset of frustration reaction - excitability, irascibility", desires to be the leader of any group he's apart of and typically works his people like dogs, "Qe + Aristocracy = likes to command, order, demand, and treat people as subordinates, from a top-down perspective", creates plans on the fly and becomes easily convinced with their chance of success, "Te + Ascending = Stubbornness due to overconfidence", highly loyal to his family; prioritizes their safety above everything else, "Te + Ethics = Lives and works for the benefit of relatives, not for any global social structures", resorts to violence easily and threatens strangers without a second thought; plans on taking St. John's dairy "by force" despite just meeting them, "Se + Central = Willingness to use violence for selfish purposes", believes everyone would benefit from his absolute leadership and authority; anyone who disagrees is either stupid or evil, "Se + Te = Likes to lead, to be the boss, to command", recklessly puts himself at risk; throwing himself at his opponents with abandon, "Se + Di = Fearlessness, not afraid to fight, to inflict and receive damage", impossible to argue with, "Ti + Qe = Confidence in their own rightness", known as a tireless workhorse by his friends at the lodge, "Te + Di = Industriousness - proud of not doing anything useless", "Te + Statics = Able to force themselves to work, dislikes idleness", wants to travel across the US because of a rumor about a community; wants to travel to a city full of walkers on the off-chance that there's a boat they can use to survive on the water with (on the off-chance that they could survive on the sea to begin with), "Ni + Extroversion = Likes to take big risks for big rewards")

>Alvin Jr.: TiSe (FiSe accent; rational, introvert, sensing, logic, static, aristocrat, decisive, negativist, constructivist, ascending, sticks to Clementine's rules meticulously and always follows her orders to the letter, "Ti + Rationality = Tediousness - puts everything “in its place” and demands the same from others; rigidity - meticulously adheres to an established order", does not become distracted and constantly stays in a state of alert and readiness to danger, "Di + rationality = Discipline", does not hide from the truth about Clementine or about his situation; knows she's just a kid taking care of a kid, "Qi + Ti = Truth-seeking; due to their bluntness and inability to adapt to others’ prejudices, they have few useful connections", plays with his gun and greedily collects bullets; shoots Marlon and threatens people easily, "Se + Ti = Rigidity, cruelty, intransigence, love of weapons, strives to be armed", stands up to Lilly directly; taunts her with Abel's death right in front of her and several soldiers, "Se + Di = Fearlessness, not afraid to fight, to inflict and receive damage", accepts the reality around him and seeks to know it; asks questions about everything, "Ti + Statics = Strives to be aware of the truth, no matter how unpleasant it may be for them personally", refuses to compromise with people; does not negotiate with anyone, "Ti + Se + Qi = Stubbornness in defending one’s position", not good at relating with anyone besides Clementine and Tenn; speaks his mind and lets others deal with it, "Ti + Introversion = Inability to personally influence people and make new social contacts", pays attention to Clementine and Louis's relationship; uses nuances to gauge whether she's mad at him, "Fi + Ethics = Attention to the relationships of the people around them", does not like noise and is a constant state of observation, "Fi + Ni = Quiet, prefers not to draw unnecessary attention, the type of an observer of people")

>Louis: NeFi intermediate with FeSi (irrational, extravert, intuitive, ethics, negativist, emotivist, static, descending, known to be a bit of a chatterbox by his friends at the school; likes playing card-games where he gets to ask people questions, "Fe + Ne = Likes to talk, exchange information, ask questions", initiates with Clementine easily and speaks to her with open interest, "De + Extroversion = Initiative and sociability - quickly establishes new contacts with people, enjoys talking", Violet complained about how much of an attention-seeker he seemed; thinking all he wanted was eyes and ears on him at all times, "Fe + Extroversion = Likes to attract attention through expressive behavior", does not like adhering to rigid survival plans and thinking of the future; likes enjoying his time day by day, "Ne + Irrationality = Does not follow any routine, does only what is interesting", doesn't believe Marlon was a monster and defends him after his death; forgives AJ for killing his best friend relatively recent to the event, "Fi + Ne = Ability to empathize with people, believing in the best in everyone", despite AJ being a scary gun-wielding tot; Marlon being a tyrannical anxious-reactive cretin; Violet being a closed-off fault-finder; Aasim and Mitch being assholes; Brody being a fretful reactionary; and Willy being a weird little pervert; he works with all of them; accepts all of them; doesn't criticize any of them (seriously, at least), "De + Declatimity = Other people do not irritate them - no matter what they do, they are ready to accept and work with it", feels connected to all of his friends; treats AJ with dignity and interest upon arrival; includes Clementine in all of his games, "Si + Extroversion = Sense of kinship with people, hospitality, generosity", does not ruminate much on his difficult past or his uncertain future, "Si + Ne = Lives by simple joys, not planning ahead and rejoicing in random discoveries")

>Violet: FiSe pure (rational, sensing, ethics, introvert, democrat, static, negativist, constructivist, descending, despite her caustic nature she is fond of calming down her friends in moments of fear or worry, "Fi + Si = Gentle by nature, prefers to calm others, comforter type", introduced yelling at Louis to leave her alone with his jokes; later complains about his big-mouth, "Fi + Qi = Especially dislikes impolite, brazen, rude or just overly intrusive behavior in others", tends to retreat into herself during moments of stress; sent to Ericson for trying to ignore her grandmother's suicide, "Qi + Introversion = Tends to conserve energy and avoid social stress - reserved in reactions, sedentary, inactive, uncommunicative", Marlon mentioned her "always being difficult"; stands up to the group surrounding Clementine and AJ after Marlon's death, "Se + Statics = Willpower, stubbornness and obstinacy (not a step back)", stands apart from the hysteria after Marlon's death; stands upon her own opinion; rebellious in nature, "Qi + Questimity = Does not tolerate the dictate of an unfair boss or attempts at manipulation to draw them into collective complicity", does not tolerate lies or dishonest behavior in others, "Qi + Statics = Intolerance of lies; demands equal freedom and access to the truth about what is happening for everyone", after she (determinantly) gets kidnapped she abandons the prospect of escape extremely early (during what would've probably been their last real chance), "Fi + Introversion = Doubts their ability to independently solve complex problems, avoids new and challenging tasks due to fear of failure", impossible to draw out of her silence and imposing stillness; several people such as Brody mentioned her "closed up" nature, "Se + Introversion = “Impenetrability”, ability to assert oneself through silence and solid immobility", yells at Louis for skipping out on his work, "Fi + Te = Serious attitude toward work")

By the way, if you'd like to discuss Talanov and his research, there's a community dedicated to his work on discord: https://discord.gg/6gcWXARAWk

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u/Global_Bag_4590 — 19 days ago

Talanov wrote an article (available here, https://quantitativesocionics.org/miscellaneous/examples-of-borderline-intertype-accentuations ), showcasing how, in his system, a person can lie between two types (rather than being rigidly defined in one) by having traits of both, creating "intertype accentuations". He provides a list in the article, and Danidin himself came up with a list of sub-type accentuations on his old website. I decided to create a list myself, not a full one as there are way too many possible combinations, but some I think might be interesting. These weren't made arbitrarily, I focused on their shared dichotomies and functional strengths and created apexes of traits (which are largely caricatures). If they don't sound right to you, you are probably not familiar with Talanov's system, as in SHS some types have different meanings, for instance. I accidentally re-did some Talanov and Danidin made, but I kept them because I'm proud mine replicated their definitions unintentionally. I'll probably make more later. Bear in mind, these are not tools for self-typing, nor do they say anything specific about the types listed (An intertype between the LII and the SEE, is not quite an LII or an SEE, for instance)

>Average value (LII, ILI): Accentuated social incompetence and weakness of motivation, intense mental skepticism and apathy towards the needs of others and themselves; indifference to practical reality; profound emotional flattening accentuation

>Average value (LII, EII): Strengthened altruism, deep sense of social responsibility (especially towards strangers), extremely strong anti-criminal tendencies, peaceful accentuation

>Average value (LII, SLE): Political fanaticism, strengthened interest in the affairs of the nation, "lone soldier" accentuation

>Average value (LII, SLI): Accentuated social avoidance, straight-forwardness, works at his own pace, serves the needs of society from his own corner, conflict-avoidant, simple-minded emphasis

>Average value (LII, SEE): Accentuated individualism, strong confidence in one's own intellectual priorities, increased demand for horizontal leadership in business and intolerance towards any authority

>Average value (ESI, LII): Self-reliance accentuation, constant background dissatisfaction with the behavior of friends, family members, and society at large, dull insensitivity to most sorts of jokes, moral vanguard type

>Average value (IEI, ILE): Professional day-dreamer, actual "Don Quixote" accentuation, non-ironical belief in "kingdom of heaven" social dreams, the material world seen and treated as the real illusion, visionary-idealist type

>Average value (IEE, ESE): Broad social accepting accentuation, absolutely no one is seen as ugly or necessarily undeserving of kindness, constant desire for strange and new social contacts, seeks out those who are considered bizarre or peculiar by others in order to find their "useful virtues"

>Average value (ILI, SLI): Accentuated detachment from surrounding events, sensory inertia to the point of monkish immobility, no drive to perform or accomplish anything in life, executive function almost completely disabled, regular suicidal thoughts, constant desire for no feelings, no thoughts, no unstable experiences, wants to empty their brain completely of all disturbances (with the possible assistance of a bullet), future local-tragedy type

>Average value (ESI, ILI): Bilious-skeptical accentuation, nothing positive is expected from others (even after continuous positive reinforcement from them), prone to long periods of intense depression. as critical of themselves as they are of others, "My past was terrible and my future will be worse", not the slightest bit idealistic, cynical-depressive type

>Average value (IEE, ILI): Trickster-type accentuation, highly original self-expression with a ceaseless ironical tone towards others (especially those who believe they are important for whatever reason; bringing them down from their ivory-tower), enjoys tricking others in a way that isn't very kind but not extremely provocative either, does not care about anything that doesn't personally interest them, flippant-jester type

>Average value (IEE, LIE): Euphoric-entrepreneur accentuation, business ventures continually generated and restlessly chased, innovative and inventive career-climber, enjoys finding new ways to make money in low-competitive environments, business and play are not seen as mutually exclusive, does not prefer stomping out competitors: "Where's the fun in that?", business-pioneer type

>Average value (EIE, LII): Strengthened political ambitions, increased paranoia towards the behavior of outsiders, desire for a complete, integral, unifying political system, intellectually intolerant, "Whatever it is, I'm against it!", political-theorist type

>Average (SLI, EII): Accentuated psychological distancing, anti-violent, tries not to bother anyone for any reason, relaxing interlocutor who constantly tries to flatten the heightened moods of others, extremely patient with coworkers and family members, does not desire to understand the world and its objective laws; seeks peace and comfort above all else, "villager" type

>Average (ESI, LSI): Conservative accentuation, despises "smart alecks" or people who advertise their dependence on luck, extremely dry and pedantic, does not joke around with anyone, sees others primarily as future threats to their established daily procedures, rigidly controls everything that they are directly responsible for

>Average (SEE, EIE): Social-charlatan type, sees other human beings as either objects of entertainment or as obstacles to personal goals, intensely ambitious (but not for money; for attention and reputation primarily), not prone to self-doubt in the slightest; other people are either wrong, stupid, or evil, insufferable drama-queen type

>Average (ESE, SEE): Friendly competitive accentuation, not prone to any sort of traditional values, accepts anything that so much as slightly promotes their own goals, sexual hedonist, initiates with strangers easily and optimistically, enjoys physical activity for its own sake, probably-a-prostitute type

>Average (EIE, IEI): "Ardent propagandist" type, prone to psychological terrorism, constantly looks for rich or strong "hosts" they can parasitize, tries to emphasize their beauty and frailty in order to garner the support of others, "I'm a pretty little flower surrounded by dangerous weeds", attractive-leech type

>Average (LIE, ILI): "Scammer" accentuation, tries to find the absolute worst ways to swindle people (no one else will do them, and if I don't, I'd be the idiot) such as scamming old people or blackmailing stupid teenagers into stealing from their parents, an immoral hooligan no one should turn their back on, con-artist type

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u/Global_Bag_4590 — 21 days ago

People give her slack because Marlon killed her, but she lied directly to Violet's face about the twins for a year, even attempting to emotionally manipulate her into treating her better (despite the fact that she certainly deserved being treated like shit by her). Marlon forced her, sure, but she was largely cowardly. Everyone would have believed her (she had no reason to lie), so she hid it for other reasons besides being scared of Marlon. She only wanted to come clean because the raiders were back, so even when she revealed the truth, it was simply to protect herself.

u/Global_Bag_4590 — 25 days ago