Objective scaling is not taking off screen feats and random statements at face value. That's just bias scaling.

Objective scaling is not taking off screen feats and random statements at face value. That's just bias scaling.

I feel like something a lot of people get mixed up on especially when criticizing meth scaling as they say we should take into accept narrative statements like L's stock market feat no matter what but I find the arguments around that dumb and here's why. The reason why we don't take those type of feats seriously isn't solely because there's no explanation around it, it's because there is no proper way to actually EVALUATE the feat.

Debates and arguments revolve heavily around proper context, evidence, and facts. The more ambiguous and vague something is, the weaker the actual argument is. Any claim that it's objective scaling when you accept everything no matter how evidentiary lacking something is just shows you don't understand what objectivity is.

Please read the actual accepted definition of the word:  expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations

By definition, you cannot objectively evaluate L's stock market feat or his feat of preventing WW3 because you DO NOT know anything about the facts or conditions that played in it and anything around it would really be your own personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations.

You don't know whether he had to really push himself to a new cognitive level, you don't know whether the statement itself was exaggerated in some shape or form, you don't know whether or not it was only accomplished because of sheer luck, you don't know whether or not it was accomplished because he had a lot of help, was this WW3 even a serious problem that would've warranted nuclear destruction, was he dealing with one guy or an entire group, how powerful was this one guy or entire group, were they even going to directly cause WW3 or just exploit the current geopolitical environment which was extremely tense at that time for whatever reason, etc.

You can say ANYTHING about these statements and feats, which is literally subjective reasoning. You look at L stopping WW3 and you make the interpretation that "Oh, he must be super intelligent then" but then how does that make him super intelligent? Explain it to me.

Oh wait, you can't because you have no evidence to back up your claims. You have no evidence to imply that he had to make deep calculations, solve puzzles nobody else could, manipulate various people to create a certain event, deduce the overall truth while having nothing but a small hint....why must we assume this is enough to make deem him "smarter" than another character? For all we know, the culprit could've just gotten bored and gave up and let L take a free win.

The the argument I hear a lot which is "Well, I mean based on what is necessary to achieve the feat we can determine it required high cognition therefore we can co...." is faulty. Once again, you don't have no evidence to support anything you said. Based on what is necessary? You have no idea what the feat. required and therefore no idea what was necessary and what wasn't for him to achieve said result and anything else is just your own interpretation, not an actual objective statement that could be supported.

At least when we scaling something that was actually EXPLAINED, we can see for ourselves how sophisticated and impressive it was to achieve something because we can break it down with proper logic and reasoning. We can attempt to shatter and debunk the accomplishment as much as possible and then see how resilient it truly is depending on how much actually ends up breaking and how much ends up surviving. We can apply actual scientific thinking to it.

We don't have to rely on making a bunch of weird interpretations or random assumptions because most if not all the facts and conditions have already been provided to us. We can say with a lot of confidence that this character has truly displayed a high level of intelligence because we aren't relying on our "feelings" we are relying on empirical evidence. This type of reasoning is way closer to being objective than any other.

To me, it's not really about whether it's on screen or off screen or whatever. Who cares about any of that. What matters is whether we are aware of the context or have some evidence to back it up in any claim in some shape or form.

"An author contradicting himself bears no relevance on the narrative" bro..what?

If an author has repeatedly contradicted himself, then the narrative doesn't make sense and if nothing makes sense then it cannot be properly evaluated and judged because you can't rate or measure something that is inherently illogical especially not in an objective manner. Facts cannot be both true or false at the same time. If the author can't be bothered to take his work seriously, then I can't be bothered to take it seriously either.

Sure, one can say "Well, you just don't understand it and therefore have to cope", that's true. Except they themselves do not understand anything and are intentionally choosing to not even bother. If your scaling consists of using vague statements, nonsensical claims, and contradictory evidence then you aren't trying to argue in good faith at all.

u/Illustrious_Win_4859 — 11 days ago

Suspicion around Fang Yuan's otherworldly dao marks

Isn't it suspicious how Fang Yuan never talked about what sort of otherworldly dao marks he has? I mean, this is one of the greatest mysteries in the story and yet I'm surprised that it's a mystery in the first place. How come he never really gave much thoughts into what sort of unique dao marks he may have? I mean we can already eliminate several conjectures.

"Maybe he can't view his dao marks" - We've seen him inspect his dao marks dozens of time throughout the text and even further we know he's clearly capable of telling the difference between his dark path dao marks and his earth path dao marks. He knows exactly how many dao marks he has and what path they all belong too.

"Maybe he can't notice anything special from a specific path?" I mean, by now Fang Yuan is far too experienced, far too knowledgeable, and more importantly has deep attainment in way too many paths in order for him to not realize if for example his blood path dao marks are a bit different from a normal batch of blood path dao marks. I don't view the logic that maybe his otherworldly dao marks originate from a minor path as valid reason for why he never really thought about them either.

Fang Yuan was capable of recognizing both pill and painting path dao marks the instant he saw them despite them being some of the most secretive paths out there yet.

I personally believe that Fang Yuan probably already knows what they are but GZR is keeping it a big secret from us as he planned a grand reveal but then my main thought isn't necessarily whether he knows what path his otherworldly dao marks belong too or not then it is why do you think GZR is creating so much mystery around this tidbit? Why we be shocked at the grand reveal?

I'm curious on any thoughts and perspective on this matter.

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u/Illustrious_Win_4859 — 14 days ago

Did San-Ti ever have good intentions?

I just finished season 1 of the three body problems on netflix and one thought that's been bugging me was why did the humans assume that these aliens/San-Ti ever had good intentions even before they found out humans are capable of lying?

It seemed awfully suspicious to me that instead of offering humans new knowledge could've been used to advance society from ignorance and petty squabbles they instead sought to kill off the brightest scientists from all over the planet and were already tempering with technology way before they sent out the sophons, such as causing every particle accelerator to give unreliable data.

It was pretty obvious that they might not have been benevolent as they were making themselves out to be because rarely does someone with good intention seek to covertly sabotage you like this. Ik Wenjie and her cultists were some delusional lunatics but did they seriously not think about the situation more clearly?

What they consider "trivial" is what we consider revolutionary. Why not offer us enough insight to cure a bunch of diseases and viruses? Why not give us a solution to the energy crisis? Why not help
Why not give us a way to revert a lot of the damage humanity has done on the earth?

It was the biggest red flag ever that when Wenjie first made contact with them...the first thing one of them told her was to NOT ANSWER and how lucky it was that it was him/her/they that responded and not anybody else.

Yeah, I'm sure that a society that's truly benevolent wouldn't have a self claimed pacifist giving you an ominous warning to stay tf away from his own people. Basic history tells me that "conquer" is a pretty negative word and rarely do the conquered get treated decently assuming they are still around.

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u/Illustrious_Win_4859 — 1 month ago

A possible explanation behind why SIF creates a otherworldly body.

I always wondered why SIF creates an otherworldly body and why it was considered something that couldn't naturally exist. The materials and resources that were used to create it were all found in the gu world and gu recipe itself is something that could also be derived from the great dao.

Spectral Soul was just a SGM in soul path and food path(???) and a GGM in every other accessible path. Sure, he eclipsed the knowledge of the heavens...but the dao itself? No.

But then something caught my mind. Remember during the refinement of SIF, it created a tribulation so powerful it required "Spectral Soul" to step in himself? What type of tribulation is so powerful that a rank 9 is required to intervene in?

Oh right, a chaotic tribulation...and what's so special about those? They use the power of chaos itself which is something not native to the gu world at all.

We also know that using chaos for creation isn't something impossible either despite it being such a destructive force because the heavens uses chaos to grow and nurture the world.

If Spectral Soul-maybe with his heaven path attainment figured out a way to use the chaos that the tribulation brought along in the refinement itself then it makes perfect sense for why SIF is something otherworldly and foreign in the world.

Even if you have everything you need to refine this gu worm all you will get is an ordinary physique due to it not being refined by something that exists outside the world assuming the attempt even succeeds.

I think this is a more logical explanation than Spectral Soul using otherworldly demons. Why? Because while everything operates based on dao marks, the power system isn't so simple as just slapping a bunch of time path dao marks on yourself to be able to time travel like SAC or slapping a bunch of space path dao marks on yourself to teleport around the planet. Plus, there was no real mention of otherworldly demons in the entire process of SIF which I find strange to just be left out if they were involved.

If this truly were the case regardless, it'd be a major plot hole for how Spectral Soul in the first timeline was only ever able to become a HALF otherworldly demon and not a complete one or why the practice of hunting down any known otherworldly demon and using them as a method to become more free from the restraints of the heavens isn't more common especially amongst the more knowledgeable immortals.

It also explains why Thieving Heaven himself couldn't just cheat by just modifying his body or physique through his unique space or theft path dao marks to become a full otherworldly demon on the spot too, because the process is way more complicated than just grafting a bunch of dao marks.

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u/Illustrious_Win_4859 — 3 months ago

What if someone annex a venerable's grotto heaven?

We know that annexing a tribulation can let you skip tribulations and calamities and advance you to the next rank right? We also know that the dao blockade itself can also be seen as a type of tribulation.

My thought is, assuming you have the appropriate attainment in whatever venerable's path, then couldn't you immediately gain rank 9 status by successfully eating their grotto heaven?

Like, if I had the necessary luck path attainment and swallowed Longevity Heaven. Would I then become the new Giant Sun? Of course I am purely discussing things from a theoretical perspective. In actual practice we know that one can't just invade LH without getting atomized.

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u/Illustrious_Win_4859 — 4 months ago

Feng Jin Huang’s accumulation was already enough for immortal ascension, but she was always stopped by Duke Long.

Now that Duke Long finally relented, Feng Jin Huang was very excited but also in a dilemma, how could she understand Pure Dream Reality Seeker Physique thoroughly?

Feng Jin Huang was pondering about this issue as Duke Long waited patiently.

“Am I pushing her too hard?”

“After all, transforming her own physique into the Pure Dream Reality Seeker Physique involves the profundities of human path!”

“<<The Legends of Ren Zu>> clearly stated the ten extreme physiques were created by Ren Zu, these are all human path profundities. Perhaps I can impart my gains when I read <<The Legends of Ren Zu>> back then to her.” - chapter 1685

My issue with this is, why is human path necessary though? Fang Yuan was able to create a dream path clone and then have that clone become an immortal too and he lacks in human path methods. First Gen Gu Yue for sure has 0 human path methods at all yet he was confident he could obtain the ancient desolate physique from his descendants.

Fang Yuan was also confident in obtaining an extreme physique without any sort of human path method at all either during chapter 939:

>“I can at most obtain a high grade blessed land by gathering ordinary strength path immortal zombie bodies. But if I can gather the body of an immortal zombie of one of the ten extreme physiques, I can possess the Great Strength True Martial Physique and own a super grade blessed land, moreover the calamities and tribulations would have their might reduced by half. As long as I have enough time to cultivate, my strength will continue to grow, and I would have a chance at vying for that supreme throne of rank nine!”

Furthermore, we also know that body possession methods exist out here too.

If you can't just convert you're body to the physique, why not just create the body and then transplant you're soul within it? It's not like Spirit Affinity and Heavenly Court by proxy is too poor to give her the resources necessary to just bull dooze through the mortal ranks again.

TLDR: Why doesn't Feng Jiu Huang have a physique yet despite the fact that human path have been shown to not necessarily be a vital process and even if they were, they are a bunch of ways to circumvent it?

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u/Illustrious_Win_4859 — 5 months ago