u/Jenneapolis

No matter how long I’ve been here (which isn’t as long as many other ECs) and no matter how much reading I’ve done, sometimes I am still reminded that I don’t fully understand men and get surprised by things that, in retrospect, I should have known. Recently this came about in my marriage regarding the power of attire.

As we age, it can get harder to know what to wear. We want to stay fashionable, youthful, and trendy, yet not look like an older woman trying and failing to be young. If we are single, we want to look hot but not give the impression we are easy or trashy or a woman with no morals, and if we are married, we want our husband to be proud to be seen with us and turn him on without embarrassing him. There are also the practicalities of life – are we managing kids, are we working out, are we in a hot or cold climate, and footwear… comfort matters! So what is a woman to do?

As I look at my own fashion journey, I dressed sexy in my 20s, but nothing over the top slutty. Pretty mainstream stuff, showing cleavage and curves. As I entered into my 30s, I became a little more conservative. I was single and wanting to give the impression I was marriage material. I also was going out less, staying home more, put on 20 lbs or so, so covered up more as I didn't feel comfortable in tight fits in my body. The styles as of recent times have also trended fairly conservative – the prairie dresses, the wide leg pants, urban styles – all of this made me think it was ok I was covering up a bit more, it was good, it was fashionable. And all the online talk in the manosphere of women being too slutty, not marriage material, etc played into it for me as I was single. On top of it, I refound spirituality and religion and felt better covering up. It is worth noting I converted to a religion where dressing conservatively is key for women so I have gotten more conservative in the past 2 years even.

When I met my husband, in the first 3 months of dating, he mentioned he thought I dressed too conservatively. He listed it along with other things he thought I could change including my weight and I was hurt and upset. He said these things to me in a nice way, and to be fair, I did ask what he thought I could change. He pretty quickly apologized and told me I should wear what I am comfortable in, it wasn’t his place to tell me what to wear. I kept it in mind and started a “get fit” journey but was more focused on fitness than attire. And I really thought I WAS dressing cute – I was wearing flowy sundresses and maxi dresses, I got some cute wide leg pants and tight sweaters, etc. And the topic didn’t come up much after, maybe an occasional passing comment, but I could tell and feel that I wasn’t getting my husband’s attention with my looks. He’d tell me I looked pretty, and I think he meant it, but I wasn’t getting the animalistic “you look hot I want to F you” response I wanted. He even praised me for my weight loss, but I still wasn't getting the full response I wanted.

As we hit this fall, I naturally started wearing more leggings. I’ve also lost 25 lbs over the past 1.5 years. I ditched the longer tunic tops for short shirts and pulled out my tall boots (he mentioned once he loved them but I hadn’t worn in a long time because I thought ankle boots were more in trend). And all of the sudden, my husband is obsessed with my look. Like seriously overnight. I started going for cleavage with push up bras and asked him “is this too slutty to wear out, should I change?” and he’s all “NOOOOO I love it, wear it.” The tall boots and tall socks turn him on too – I chalk it up to that this is what women wore when he was in his 20s and becoming sexually awakened and so it does something for him.

The results? We’ve been having sex twice a day on weekends and pretty much daily during the work week over the past week or two. I can feel he feels more proud to be out with me. He told me “you look hot” (vs. pretty) which I don’t think he has ever said to me outside of sexy times… and I could feel he meant it. He’s more attentive, more cuddly both in public and private, more ass slapping, just overall craving me more. In short, it has increased my value in his eyes, no doubt about it.

This seems SO simple but I am shocked that simply dressing this way has this effect on him. If I had known a year ago, I would have done it, but I thought I needed to get fit so I covered up as I thought I would embarrass him otherwise. I had no idea just dressing in skin tight stuff would make him want to have more sex, to see me as more valuable, to feel proud to be seen with me. My sexuality doesn’t work like that at all – I find him attractive and to me what turns me on is more about what he does/says in bed, not what he looks like. If he wears whatever, it doesn't impact my sexual attraction to him. I really just missed the mark on the difference between men and women here, the power that simply just looking at my cleavage and ass in tight pants has on his desire for me, and I can’t believe I misunderstood this for so long.

Now every man is different, YMMV. I know some men do want their women to dress more conservatively in public, so you should know what your man wants and desires. But there is a case for dressing slutty and bucking the trends to wear what appeals to the male gaze and not what fashion magazines say is in. I can’t believe I made this mistake for so long, I can’t believe I lost the plot on how men work, that men are sexually different than women, and that something so simple can earn such drastic results.

I’ve been seeing a disturbing trend even in our RPW space of the return of the “Yes Queen, you are the prize” rhetoric. While it is important to have reasonable standards and boundaries (i.e. vetting), it is also important to swallow some difficult red pills. And here is one straight out of Fascinating Womanhood that we don’t talk about enough – “He wants you to be better than him.”

You may be thinking:

“But he is supposed to be the leader? The man of the house? Why would I be better than him?” Or you may be thinking that this goes against RP principles because it is women who are hypergamous while men are more content with “good enough.”

So what gives?

Men want their partner to be better than them in many ways, specifically in regards to feminine matters like morality, spirituality, emotional maturity, calmness, gentleness, ability to nurture, and ability to control negative traits and base instincts. Fascinating Womanhood talks about men wanting a wife with an “angelic side” – they are looking for a woman to be morally superior to them and suggests men are drawn to women who they see as ethically or spiritually elevating. And this makes sense – essentially men are looking for his partner to be a good influence on him and a good influence on his future children/household.

Quotes from the book:

“Men joke about their wives being their ‘better half.’ This is based on the truth that men sincerely want us to be just that.”

“Men expect us to be better than them. To be more cheerful. To be kinder, more forgiving, more caring, more spiritual.”

“A cheerful, serene wife, one who is good and noble in her personality, is highly attractive to a man. She meets a deep need for virtue and wholesomeness in his life.”

“We can be so disappointing to our husband when we lower our standards. Sometimes he will even test us, just to reassure himself that we are as good as we seem. Men like to put us on a pedestal.”

You may be thinking:

"But that is not fair! Why do I have to be better? He should have to win me over after all as there are so many men who want to sleep with me and I have a lot to offer! I have my own struggles and I want a leader, I shouldn’t have to be better than him? I thought RPW was about me getting a confident leader so I could step back and have a soft life? I want to have fun too after all, I am human and I make mistakes, I might need a night to drink and blow off steam with my girlfriends, why can he do all of that and I have to be the good girl? I have to do all the household duties and I also have be of higher character too?!"

So why is this a red pill so hard to swallow?

It is hard to swallow because on the face of it, it seems unfair – it is asking more of us in this area than we are getting. It's also hard to swallow because it goes against what many women thought they would get with RPW which is an upstanding man who would provide and protect and lead. It also goes against many women’s feelings that they ARE the prize and men should have to impress them. After all, we get flooded with attention on the apps, men will jump through hoops to date and sleep with us, so why do we now also have to be the more moral one? The more calm one? Why can’t we have fun too?

But no matter how hard it is to hear, the fact remains that men want us to be the moral backbone of the relationship/household. This is why they don’t want to marry the party girl, the woman who is out drinking and dancing all night. She may be fun for him to hang out with but deep down he knows he wants his wife to be someone who will MAKE HIM BETTER, to be a good influence on him. After all, do you want your mother to be a bad person, to lie, cheat, steal, yell, drink and party and curse? Of course not, you want a nice kind mother who is calm and warm and loving. And that is what he wants in a wife.

So while this might not seem fair, if you are trying to figure out how to separate yourself from the crowd, this may be it. It DOES NOT mean you can’t be fun, you should be the goddess of fun and light, but think of a carefree childlike fun, not the fun of a party girl in a nightclub or the guys girl. And if you see yourself as the prize and expect him to be better than you in every way, you will likely be looking for a long time because this is one of those things we need to provide to him. It is our role.

I've seen a recent surge online of the "single and happy crowd" - the women who swear up and down that the secret to a happy life is to be single. The 4B movement. They claim their life is extremely peaceful without a male partner, they are thriving, and essentially point to is as the secret to a peaceful life.

I lived alone for 20 years. I was in relationships with men, but I refused to move in until marriage. And I didn't feel happy or peaceful living alone. I always yearned to have people around. I did a good job being alone, it wasn't like I was sad and devastated every day or anything. I loved my place and functioned fine but it wasn't this blissful peaceful secret to life I see these women talking about.

So I wanted to hear the community's thoughts - what is going on with these women? Are they just not like me, perhaps more independent? Is it just a cope? Will it persist throughout their lives into old age? What is going on with this crowd?

What is the best RPW approach to dealing with the silent treatment after an argument? Say you have apologized for your part in the argument, but this is still the path your husband decides to go down.

I am on my second round of my husband using the silent treatment after an argument. He will talk briefly about logistics (i.e. ask me if he can start the dishwasher, etc.) but essentially only sleeps in bed next to me and spends the rest of the time in his office or out of the house. No talking, no affection, no time together. The first bout of this lasted for 4 days until I finally really pushed him to resolve it and also my grandmother died and I had to travel home so I think that broke the tension as he wanted to make up before I left and knew it was the right thing to do to console me. Now I'm on day 2 of this round, I apologized 15 min after the fight for my part. He did not apologize for his part. He told me he was going to "take distance" and that we should both just "do our own thing."

My gut instinct on RPW advice is, after apologizing, to give him the space and let him come back to you. Pursue your own life, focus on self care and doing things that bring you happiness, act unbothered, and let it play out.

But on the other side, I feel like it's a form of punishment to me and am now concerned this is becoming a pattern. It's hard to live like this and not knowing when or how it will end.

What has worked for you?