u/Kaedamanoods

safety warning: scrambling is dangerous!!!
Do not attempt if you’ve never done any other scrambles before. This is much more physically & mentally involved, committing, and dangerous than the regular Crown hiking trail, as well as other popular routes in the North Shore, including Brunswick or the West Lion (especially now there’s chains there?). There are multiple distinct cruxes that would be much more difficult to downclimb so once you enter the route, you don’t have an easy way to retreat except by continuing on through some high exposure terrain. I rock climb (bouldering, trad) and run multiple times a week, for context. Peaks we’ve done in the lower mainland include the above, as well as Sky Pilot & the Needle.

Ok, with that out of the way.

Funnily enough I first found this route off somebody’s reel on instagram. Despite living here my whole life and actively hiking and, later, climbing/scrambling for the last 10-15 years I’d never heard of this route before. Although, when I did Crown via the regular hiking route I did think to myself that the big swathe of granite seemed relatively climbable. That was confirmed for me when I saw this reel and did some sleuthing to find the route: the Crown Couloir AKA Crater Slabs.

I was hooked. 600+ meters of continuous granite scrambling, right in our backyard, climbing from the top of Hanes Valley up right through the shield of granite below the summit of Crown.

Doing some sleuthing, it seemed there can be a bit of a stream that runs down the gully and a few trip reports recommend letting the route dry fully for a few days before doing it. Of course, the day or two before it drizzled on and off so we spent the weekend hemming and hawing and checking the grouse mountain webcams to see how everything looked.

In the end we decided to just go for it, figuring if it was wet at the base of the route we could abort before starting and just do crown the regular way and still enjoy a nice day out.

We approached via the Hanes valley route, opting for more distance but much less elevation gain & loss to hopefully keep fresher legs. It seems 50/50 whether people approach via this or via the Grind/BCMC. It took us about 3.5 hours to get to the very base of the couloir, although quite a good chunk of that was eaten up by talus hopping. Finding the base of the route via Hanes is quite easy - you can see from quite a ways away where the talus forks right, instead of left to ascend the regular Hanes valley route. Follow it as it constricts into a gully.

After a brief lunch stop on a nice flat rock we donned helmets and sojourned on.

The overall route breaks down into two distinct sections, a tighter tiered couloir lower half and the endless slabs of the upper half as the couloir opens up. In the couloir there are 2 or 3 distinct crux moves. Really the first two are not too bad and, if you go on a day where the stream is quite dry, I could see it being near trivial. They come down to a handful of class 3 moves with some smearing on - for us - wet rock, likely owing to the drizzles the day before. Luckily, besides the direct stream and spray of the water, the rest of the route was quite dry.

We got through the first two choke points without too much trouble, although certainly down climbing them would be tricky. As I said at the intro, it’s best to consider yourself committed to finishing once you get past the first crux, unless you found it trivially easy enough to downclimb. The third choke point was more sustained and steeper than the first two. Still not super long per se, but kicking back to closer to vertical for about ~6 meters. Certainly high and vert enough that a fall from the top would end the day. Thankfully, this section had a lot more hand hold options than the first two choke points. My partner did end up putting on climbing shoes for this section and found it very helpful. I have much more rock climbing experience and did it comfortably in trail running shoes.

After this, the technicality begins to level off, and you’ve earned a nice long victory lap on endless granite slabs, mostly alternating between class 2 & 3 depending on the sections. You keep ascending slabs with generally decent holds for close to 400m to the summit from here and it’s an absolute joy. It felt like a multipitch lap on the Apron but without having to fuss with gear. I can see how people get into free soloing (still could never)! We generally trended right but zigzagged a fair bit. Lots of options to choose your own adventure. Sticking to the corners gives you more options for when things get steep. Occasionally I got a little carried away rambling up too quickly and found myself in a slightly steeper section with thinner hand holds, but I never got myself into too much trouble.

At this point the sun may be beating down on you and it does take its toll a little bit. I was real glad for my sun hoody. As you keep ascending you’re treated to sweeping views of the valley and the ranges beyond. As you collect more and more granite beneath your feet, you really just get a wonderful sensation of being so far out on an adventure. Even doing multipitches on the Chief, you still can see the McDonald’s in town. Not so here! Not too shabby for a route where the trailhead is 30 minutes from downtown.

Semi unfortunately we got carried away enough with the route that we forgot to look for a turnoff to hit the main summit triangle of Crown. Looking back in photos I can seethat there was a ledge with some trees on it which is likely where we should’ve hooked right. If we did that we would’ve been able to go directly up to the summit (from what I gleaned from other TR’s), or go to attempt the camel. it would’ve treated us a nice wide stadium view of all the slabs. The route that we took followed the natural feature of the couloir all the way to the regular hiking trail.

No biggy, I don’t think we lost out too much on the amount of scrambling we got to do, and we got to climb through a lovely flower patch as we joined up with the crown route. We hooked onto the route right as hikers start climbing onto the top of the summit pyramid. It just would’ve been cool to get that sweeping view but ah well, next time.

Overall, incredible day out and would probably go back and do it again sometime. If you have the experience and fitness for it, I’d highly recommend it. I don’t think I’ve been continuously moving on rock for that long in one push… almost ever? Not counting multipitching - but that’s so start & stop with belays. It reminded me of some longer via ferratas I’d done in Italy (without the ferrata, of course). In terms of technical difficulty I’d say it’s similar ish to sky pilot? Definitely need to be comfortable pulling/stepping on edges or shifting through smears. The difference being how long and sustained the slabs are, where sky pilot is more a few distinct sections of scrambling. While that makes it incredibly fun, it does get emotionally a little fatiguing (as well as physically, especially with the sun) to have to be “on” for so long. While the slabs didn’t feel overly exposed, I certainly would not want to figure out how far I’d slide if I slipped.

Anyways, this is plenty long enough so I’ll leave it at that. Stay safe and have fun!

Had a recent interesting experience on the trails. I have a friend who, for fitness context recently ran a 3:50 marathon and I ran a 3:55 on the same day/course. He's run sub 20 5K's in the past but in recent years his 5K is more in the high 21's/low 22's, I'm at about the same.

Since the marathon we've roughly averaged equal weekly volume of running. Of note, he's a fair bit taller than me at 6'3, whereas I'm 5'7.

We went on a trail run recently and he absolutely dusted me on the steep uphills (20-40% grade) where we were powerhiking. He was able to keep running before power hiking for a much steeper grade than I, and while power walking it seemed he didn't get into that lactic zone nearly as quickly as I did. Within a few minutes of hitting the steeps he easily opened up a 30-50m lead on me. I did pay him back on the downhills as I'm a lot quicker with technical descents, but the disparity on the uphills really threw me.

Is there something I can address/work on to equalize that? I did notice my calves and back got tight pretty quickly. Quads got quite lactic quickly. So with our aerobic systems being relatively in the same ballpark, could this be fully explained by muscular strength? Or is it just down to the height differences, which then give me an advantage on the downhills?

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Background: Early 30s M.

Context: About two months ago, I ran my first full (BMO Vancouver) and finished with a little over 3:55 chip time. I'm generally fit but mostly strength based activities - bouldering, used to lift; I hiked in the summers but no consistent cardio. Over the past year I started running consistently and this coalesced into a roughly 3 month training block for the full, averaging about 40km/week over the 3 months with a peak at 64km/week. running 4 days a week. While I had a great time running my first official race as the full, I couldn't help but shake the feeling that it didn't reflect my full potential & all the training I put in.

Conditions were a big part of it - a lot of my training had taken place in 10 degrees C or less, and by the time I crossed the finish line, BMO ended up being close to 25 degrees C. It was unseasonably warm that day. Where my training runs suggested a 3:45 finish was plausible, even 3:40 if all things lined up, I died a little towards the end - especially once I came around the corner into the sun for the last 7-8km. Also, being my first race - and also with the inherent nature of the length of marathons - I had a hard time judging how much I had left in the tank vs. how much I could push. I've historically cramped a lot on steep hikes, so it was always in the back of my mind that I could cramp and I could throw any time goals out the window.

Training: after the full, I took a couple weeks pretty chill. From there I had about 6 weeks to train a little. Life also got pretty busy in these few weeks so I could only run 3 days a week, although I still squeaked out an average 40km/week, doing a 16-18km long run, one speed (usually threshold intervals or sustained thresholds) day, and one easy day. Still climbing 1-2x/week as well.

Target & build-up: I wanted to be more aggressive with the half. Somehow I got it in my head that sub 1:40 would be a good goal. I just liked the sound of going under 100 minutes, to be honest. My first few threshold interval sessions made a 4:20-30 pace feel tough, but somewhat sustainable, and I'd need to hold 4:44/km to hit 1:40, so it seemed like an ambitious but plausible goal. Throughout my training block, I kept flip flopping on whether it seemed doable. During marathon training I hit all my runs, I hit all my splits.

As it warmed up in preparation for the half, and with doing faster intervals, I started having runs where I failed to hit my splits. It got to the point where maybe 1/3rd of my speed days I had to back off or just drop a few sets, especially on the hottest days. Luckily, my last long run before tapering, I hit an 8k race pace block within 17km longer run and it felt amazing. I felt like I had lots more to give and it was on a relatively hill section (the half would be a net downhill but with a number of rolling hills). That gave me the confidence boost I needed to commit to shooting for 1:40.

Race plan: The race in question was the Beneva Vancouver half. It's roughly divisible into 4 sections: first ~5k is a gentle downhill out, the next ~5k is heading right back up that hill, followed by a semi steep, sustained downhill, and then there's a short but somewhat steep hill up followed by more gentle rolling hills for the last 5k.

Plan was straightforward - hit 4:44/km / don't let myself go faster than 4:40 for the initial downhill 5km. Push for the uphill 5km and don't let myself slow down more than 4:50. Recover in the lungs for the sustained downhill and don't speed up too much more than 4:30 for the longer downhill. Punch it on the rolling hills and hold onto the finish.

Race day: Woke up pretty stoked. Where for the full I trained in the cold and raced unseasonably hot, for the half I'd been training in 20+ degrees heat and it was a 15 degree day on race day. I slept well, was feeling good, it was game on.

Got to the start line a little tight on time - long bathroom lines - but overall started off without too much drama. First few K ticked by and I was basically 4:40-41 on the dot every time, was feeling good, wasn't feeling like I was working too hard.

On the return uphill 5K, definitely had to start pushing a little to maintain pace but didn't drop below 4:49/km. Definitely was starting to notice a little bit more effort, maybe a bit of lactate, but I had to keep reminding myself: this part is supposed to be uncomfortable, I have a long downhill coming up, it's all good. Made it to the level-off point at around 10-11k feeling like I had worked but had lots of fight left, exactly where I wanted to be. I took a little bit of my maple syrup at around the 30 minute mark to give myself a nice boost for the latter end of the uphill here.

On the long sustained downhill, I was actively trying to slow down to recover as I was also starting to get a slight/early side stitch. Just tried to focus on my breathing and pacing. Even letting myself go to 4:30/km, I was getting passed left & right. Started second guessing if I was maybe braking too much and being inefficient or if everyone else was relying on the downhill to bank time. Mentally, once I hit the flats after the long downhill it did definitely feel like a bit of a chore to maintain pace. I knew the steep uphill was coming so I timed the remainder of my syrup for about ~1.5km beforehand.

Once I saw the steep uphill to carry us up from the beaches, mentally it was go time. I kept reminding myself - this part is supposed to hurt, it's supposed to suck. I saw the 1:40 pacer maybe 1-200m ahead of me starting to hit the hill. I hunkered down and charged up the hill, trying to maintain pace as best I could. I ended up dropping a bunch of people and by the top of the hill I was within a few body lengths of the 1:40 pacer. After the hill was a long mild descent where I could recover and regain my pace and I felt like I had juice to go still. Exactly where I wanted to be with 5km to go.

For the next ~km, I hung just behind the 1:40 pacer and didn't really look at my watch. Eventually though, I felt like I had more to give and was actively slowing down to stay behind him. With about 4km to go, I decided to drop the pacer and just go at a comfortably uncomfortable pace. This ended up being about 4:30-35ish through a series of rolling hills. In studying the map I knew there'd be about 4 distinct ups and downs, so mentally I just kept on ticking them off as they came. The Strava doesn't really show the true elevation changes as each km often had an up and a down, so the final elevation change wasn't that much.

As I hit the 20km marker, I knew sub 1:40 was so on. I was getting stoked, but I had to remind myself I still had to work to make sure I maintained. I had a buffer, but not THAT much of a buffer. I was starting to gas out and the side stitch had returned with a vengeance. As we hit the last 500m, people were starting to really sprint to the finish but I felt like I was getting heavier and heavier legs. In retrospect I was still pushing 4:00/km for the last few hundred meters everyone else just had a lot more in the tank, I suppose - it felt like I was barely maintaining at that point. Gave it my all to the finish, which was somewhat tight and windy and I didn't want to blow an ankle at the last stretch. Saw the gun time ticking down high 1:39:XX and gunned it.

Crossed the line with a chip time of low 1:39 - I freaking did it! This felt amazing. It was a very different experience to the full - I felt like I was able to push so much closer to the limit, and I was very happy with how well I excecuted my pacing. Charging up the hill and coming out next to the pacer was a top moment for me. If I were to be super critical, I'm sure I probably had a few more s per K to give throughout the race, but really I felt like I ran a race that reflected the work I'd put into the full. Super satisfying. Now to see if I can extrapolate this back to the full again, next year...

Just finished my first marathon which was a tough effort, but a week out and I'm feeling fairly recovered and fresh. Slept a lot this week.

I'd like to roll this fitness and keep it going and see what I can do on a half-marathon. I did the full on a hilly course on an unseasonably warm day at 3:56, would like to see if I can go <1:40 (A/stretch goal) or 1:40-1:45 (B goal) in 6 weeks.

For this past block, over 16 weeks I averaged 40km with peak of 64km, running 4 days a week with one long, two easy, and one quality. For these next 6 weeks, I am a fair bit busier/more life commitments eating into running, so I will likely have to hold at 40km/week +/- 5 and just do one easy/ one long / one quality session a week.

This next week or two I'll continue to take it easy, then I'm thinking for long runs I'll take a few weeks to work back up to 20km's on my long run days, and a 12-15km easy during the week.

For speed work I was thinking I'd do some threshold 1-2km repeats, up to about 8-9km total/40 minutes total while increasing the interval time/reducing the rests. Maybe 2-3 weeks out start incorporating race pace into the long runs and doing less volume but higher intensity (5-10k pace 1km intervals) as my speed sessions.

Any thoughts on this? Bad idea, will I blow myself up?

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Ran my first marathon this weekend in Vancouver and despite non ideal conditions ( starting off around 15 C - mid 60s?, rising to mid 20s/70s by the end,), came away with 3:55:XX and I'm quite stoked on it.

Background:

• early 30s M, I've run on and off since 2020 (<100km/year), but would say started being consistent in Mar/Apr 2025. At first around 5-10km/week, building to about ~15-20km/week in the summer (+ lots of 15-20km hikes, etc)
• In September/October/November I got a little too earnest and built too quickly from 30km/week to 40-55km/week while doing speedwork too. Got really fit but also started to have early shin splints and knee stuff
• End of November/into December/January I cut volume significantly and have seen my physio regularly and working on things, overall feeling a lot more robust now.

Initial goals:

• main goal is to complete
• bonus goal is to go sub 4
• bonus bonus is to go "solidly" sub 4, i.e. say 3:50 or below

Above is pasted from a thread where I'd posted my training plan looking for critiques. As training progressed and my paces improved, my goals shifted a little -

Updated goals:

• 3:40 became a pipe dream, everything going perfectly / great conditions goal
• 3:45 became a reasonable but difficult goal
• 3:50-55 became my "safety" goal
• as the forecast became clearer and clearer that it was going to be warm, mentally I braced to add 5-10 minutes to all of those times

Training:

• General training outline was here, I initially posted asking for feedback on my plan loosely based on Higdon novice, but adapted around some vacations I had, including a two week vacation about a month out from the race. I reworked the plan a few times since this initial post but the rough bones are there.
• Starting in Jan, ran 4 days a week
• over the full block I averaged 40km/week, with a peak week of 64km
• I had a two week vacation from 6 to 4 weeks out from race day
• My physio was key. I was relatively shin pain free when I started the block, it would flare up as I increased mileage, but as I hit my physio more and it would subside in time for me to take on the next mileage increase. Sometime after vacation I felt like I finally "outpaced" my shins and was able to keep pushing and not aggravate it
• on my vacation, I did about 40ish km a week - 2x 8-12's and a 21 each week
• I got 3 proper long runs in - a 28km, a 31km, and a 30km. Each had 10-12km at MP, I think I had an earlier 25km with 3x5 MP and the longest 3 were all just solid MP at the last bit
• I would do a longer (10-15km) easy run and a shorter 5-6km easy run mid week and then speed sessions at the end of the week
• Speed sessions were adjusted from the initial plan to be more longer steady state threshold runs for the most part, slowly becoming longer sustained threshold runs and MP efforts
• Last long run was two weeks out and then did a sharp taper from there, keeping one session of 6x500m on/off at MP-30s / MP +30s

Fueling:

• maple syrup with salt, worked out to 26g carbs/160mg salt per 20 minutes
• water at aid stations

Pre Race:

• felt good, taper went well, carb load went well - just tried to shift proportion of carbs. By rough estimation I probably had about 4-500g of carbs/day when my body weight would call for 6-700 but I think I carbed up as much as I could without feeling bloated
• did NOT sleep well the night before, only got around 4.5 hours of sleep although I went to bed at 10 and the sleep I did get was deep. I expected this though as I've never been able to sleep well before a big event all my life so it didnt phase me too much
• 2x bowel movements on the day of, blessed
• lining up for the corrals, when we were out of the shade and in the sun it definitely felt warm already which I tried to ignore

Race time:

• Ran with a buddy who, from training, seemed like we'd have quite similar paces; he's a touch faster but close enough that it felt good to start together
• km 1-10, just easing into it and spacing out, especially as km ~2-9 were downhill - goal was just to get moving and not let the downhill carry us away
• Camosun hill is the big nemesis of the course so I trained on a lot of hills; two of my long runs had hills that were twice the elevation gain in half the distance so Camosun itself felt pretty mellow, just a touch long but not as bad as I'd feared
• after Camosun, however, I was a little surprised by how many more rolling hills there were, and that started to tax me a little
• I think around km 13-15 I was feeling that I was maybe working a little harder than I'd wanted to at this point
• By KM 16-18 I went for a quick pit stop and let my friend pull ahead so I could pace myself more comfortably. Although funnily enough we later realized we maintained the same gap for the next ~12-14km anyways, roughly
• Km 19-22ish, nice sweeping downhill. I was careful to maintain pace and not overcook it. I think I crossed halfway mark maybe 2 minutes behind schedule for a 3:45 which, even maintaining that would've been amazing so I didn't push, just kept at it
• Km 23-24ish, I had completely forgotten about another decent size hill to exit out of Jericho beach and that wounded the morale quite a bit, although I was still feeling strong and passing people at this point. Just after the hill there was a guy fully down for the count, with paramedics giving IV/ice packs. Hope you're doing okay!
• KM 24-28 was tough. I was starting to chafe in my under arms as I hadn't worn a tank top this long before, this section of the course was in full sun with less shade and less breeze than before, and the crowd was incredibly energetic... at times almost even a little much for me, although I super appreciated how many people showed up. I had planned to go off race vibes for the first 3/4 and had made a playlist for the last 10-12km but was starting to crave some music. I was struggling to maintain pace and just focussed on getting to the bridge at km 30 before letting myself put a headphone in
• Around km 29 there's a very slight hill that, in training, I wouldn't have even considered and it felt properly hard at this point. I was also getting the beginnings of some crampy flutters in my hamstrings which I was nervous about. Said screw it and put my music in and that gave me a huge boost
• Km 30-32, Burrard bridge and into downtown. Going up the bridge was a slog, down the bridge was chill with great vibes, although looking at my splits I was going quicker than I felt so that was nice. Between music, the vibes, and seeing a number of friends around the bridge it kept me going decently
• Kms 32-35, entering the seawall, I know a lot of people find this part lonely and tough but I found it a nice change of pace from the clamour of the crowds - as appreciated as that was. Vibing to the playlist and having to work really hard to maintain my pace, but getting it done and passing some folks. I was thinking if I can even hold 5:30-5:40, I'm golden. I think at this point a 3:51-52 was still on the cards
• Kms 36-37, entering the internal wall, lol. Especially around 37, you exit the shade and re-enter full sun, which felt pretty rough at this point. This would've been around 12-12:30 or so. Never fully cramped up but had to stop at a few water stations from here to the end to stretch out pre emptively. I figured better 10 seconds preventatively than a minute or two reactively.
• Kms 38-41 were similarly rough and hobbling in full sun, managed to not let my splits drop below 6:00/km too much. The internal dialogue went from 3:52 is still on the cards, to just get me to the damn finish. I don't think 3:52 was on the cards at this point anyways and I didn't have the energy to check my watch and do the math. I was getting side stitches but didn't have the energy to breathe deeply enough to fully keep them at bay. I kept telling myself 4km, 3km to go - this wouldn't even count as a run during training
• Km 42, final home stretch. the last ~6-800m or so you can see the finish line looming ahead the whole time and I just sent it. A good song came on and I just went for it went everything I had left, keeping maybe like 5% in reserve as I didn't want to trigger a cramp. My last split was 4:47; my rolling pace by the finish line (30 second average) was like 4:20 lol. so perhaps I had more to give in kms 38-41 than I had thought

Post race:

• 3:55:XX. What a rush of emotions. So glad it was over, so glad it was done. I was very proud of still going sub 4 on my first marathon despite the heat. I was very proud of the fact that I felt like I pushed as hard as I could've and left it all out there. But I'd be lying if I didn't say that there was a part of me that, based on the paces I was able to hit seemingly easily in training, I was hoping for a little quicker. Reading more accounts of how the heat affected everyone else though helped calm down the overachiever part of my mind
• Despite expecting to sleep poorly I do wonder how much my short sleep affected things. I was debating taking melatonin beforehand but wasn't sure if that would lead to a more sluggish start.
• Tactically, I do think I should have self paced/broken off from my friend a little earlier, although maybe that wouldn't have made as much of a difference as I think given we were only a minute apart until the seawall (based on videos our friends had taken)
• Fueling, hydration wise I felt pretty good. By the end I couldn't stand the taste of anything remotely sweet. The fact that I never fully cramped up despite the heat and being a heavy, salty sweater validated my strategy here, I think. Tastewise I might need to use gels next race though just to get some flavour variety.
• I'd also be lying if I didn't think about some of the borderline troll-y feedback I got on my initial training plan post, lol. I did get some good useable feedback which I did incorporate into my training - upped the mileage somewhat and shed some of the long run mileage more onto the weekly mileage, lowered intensity/increased duration of speed work to be more threshold/steady-state oriented. But I did have to chuckle at some of the standard internet snark I got. It made for good fuel, in any case.

Overall, felt like I had a good opportunity to battle hard, felt like I did as well as I could've, and ended up with a result that felt in line with the work I put in to get to this point. Can't ask for much more than that! Thanks for making it through my word vomit.