u/Kris_Third_Account

Inspired by SuperFirePig, I decided to do a review of my own theories. I'll go from oldest to newest

How overlapping works

Summary: General theorizing on how this aspect of the story works. Biggest takeaway is that no overlapping will happen if one instance of a character is a direct continuation of a different instance.

Verdict: Inconclusive

While the game sets up a new overlapping-related plot by somehow assigning Kaina's id to Melia, the functionality isn't explained on its own.

Melia's identity

Summary: Melia is an amalgamation of Maria, Erin, Alice and Allen

Verdict: Incorrect

Melia turns out to be the result of Mariatosis, with Maria being split into Marianette and Melia. There's also a subtheory on Madame X being a Melia, but an uneven fusion. That's also false. While one of the Madame X'es is technically a Melia, it is not in the spirit of the theory, and it would be more appropriate to say that Melia is a Kaina since Kaina came first.

The Karma game

Summary: There are two AI's, Karma and World Shatterer, blooming only happens for a genuinely sustainable world.

Verdict: Not fully concluded, but more right than wrong

This time, I got something right. There's a bit to unpack here

The World Shatterer was a separate entity from Karma, but unlike what I expected, it was not equal to Karma. Nor was the World Shatterer superior in any way. The World Shatterer turned out to be the Kaina, an early Interceptor (self-declared first Interceptor) from the world that became the Second Layer. But Karma decided to nerf itself and allow Kaina access to the Midpoint, which may or may not be a killswitch for the entire Karma system. Considering the Erin surrender ending, the mass-shattering can probably be stopped and Karma itself can go on.

But we also learn that Karma consists of Zed and Lorna, who can see the true path (Zed) and the path of destruction (Lorna), and are supposed to collaborate on the scripts for the world. Doesn't work that well in practice, and the bar for blooming was lower than I expected. The "duelling AI's" part was therefore wrong, except maybe not as wrong as Variya would have wanted in-universe. I'm cooking up a theory on that.

I still believe I was right that the story wants to go in the direction of "beating the bad guy isn't enough", so even if the requirements for a blooming world are lower than anticipated, I still think I was theorizing in the right direction. But I won't go into depth for now.

Game ending

Summary: Elite 8, champion and main game ending prediction

Verdict: Mostly incorrect

The events I predict as part of the final stretch are extremely likely to be wrong. As in, I don't see the need to go into further depth wrong. At most, a final battle against Karma itself is not off the table, but I don't see the surrounding events happen at all. Sienna is probably not gatekeeper of Terrial, like I initially thought as she insists that her battling days are over. People are known to lie though.

Hazel is interesting. I did predict that we hadn't met the Artrica gatekeeper yet, and Hazel fits neatly into that description. But Hazel also says that they are rank 3, which would imply being part of the "normal elite four" section and not a gatekeeper. We're explicitly shown Jolene, Tesla, Karen and Dylan as "normal elite four". Of course, that flashback was 5-6 years in the past, so it's not implausible that reshuffles and substitutions happened since.

But the most important parts of the theory are incorrect.

Distant past and Garufan tribes

Summary: Second layer was a previous iteration of the world that got reset, and that world was Age of Griselda.

Verdict: Partially correct

The part I got right is that there had been two resets, and that the Second Layer was a previous iteration that had been pushed underground. What I got wrong was that the Second Layer was a match for the Age of Griselda. You could also argue that there have been three resets instead of two: Second Layer, M2's Aevium, current Aevium. Current Aevium is supposed to be a different recreation of M2's Aevium instead of a straight up reset, though. For some reason, Eizen is aware of M2's Aevium, as evidenced by him referencing Akora Shore and grabbing Zetta's shadow Froakie from V1-5.

The age of Griselda is an event in the same iteration, but far in the past. What's up with Maman's tribe is unknown. She speaks the same language as Vitus and Karen, and Cyrela makes reference to how people were forced to escape underground to hide Aevium's existence, but the implication is that they resurfaced as native Aevians are a thing when the Mierans arrived, so why is Maman's tribe a special case here?

Nature of Storm-9

Summary: Storm-9 is the physical manifestation of the world reset system

Verdict: Incorrect

I'm surprised by this one. But it leads me to wonder: What the hell actually happens to result in the doomed timeline? No Anathea to attempt to block the sacrifice. Would the Mariatosis have happened? Would Lorna have entered the "game" as a player? I suppose that's why it's a paradox.

Black Boxes and Servants

Summary: Black Boxes and Servants are the same thing.

Verdict: Inconclusive, and unlikely to ever be resolved with Vitus being dead, Anju being cured and Kanon being dead on Paragon.

Interceptor Effect

Summary: Interceptor Effect as Crescent outlines at the tail end of Karma Files is 100% true

Verdict: Inconclusive

This one is weird, because there are implications in both directions here. On one hand, our win against Vitus/Team Xen is said to be scripted. With Karma's Tears being given to MC after defeating Vitus and Storm-Nym, this not only goes against the idea of an Interceptor's action affecting others to a point where they have a semblance of free will, but goes against the idea of the Interceptor themselves having free will. There's also Amber's enforced death in Paragon, but I believe there are other reasons for that, as it should be an Interceptor's right to deny scripted deaths if need be.

On the other hand, there is the Renegade route. There is Nymiera explicitly saying that there have been Interceptors who wanted to destroy the world. There are a bunch of Interceptors who failed against Vitus (which would violate the script, even if it's inadequacy instead of free will). There is Storm-Nym, basically Lorna at that stage, beating the shit out of MC for the lives they allegedly ruined, and especially Ren and Aelita's dialogue. Finally, there's Melia's awareness of Kaina and just Melia in general from Karma Files onwards.

The Karma files say something about how Karma is allowed to guide the Interceptor, so going off script might be very difficult, especially for a Paragon.

All in all, a couple of good calls, a couple of misses and a few that are yet to come to fruition.

I said something about posting my thoughts on V14, and I guess it's time to deliver. Wanted to do that a couple of days ago, but certain real life events kept me from my computers. I also decided to rewrite from scratch. Gave me the time to see Dred's Renegade playthrough though (only NG+ I've seen is ad-hoc posts on here). My primary focus is on Paragon, because I played it, while Renegade was at more distance. That said, there will be Renegade spoilers.

Edit: I didn't originally mention it, but it deserves mention. As far as animations, music and general care for attention goes; Pokemon Rejuvenation has built upon its already insanely high quality level. There is a lengthy rant about how I don't believe V14 (on one path) sticks the landing plot wise, but that shouldn't detract from the overall experience.

Part 1: In the past

I don't have much to say about this part. Other than: This was awesome. The story and character interaction all felt satisfying. The battles, while challenging, did not feel unfair in any way. The twists that weren't predicted made sense. The "Delightful Respite" area sets a later reveal up really well.

The good:

• I love Storm-Nym as a concept. It fits really well to have an actual virus messing everything up in what is effectively a large simulation
• The entire past-to-present link (aside from the intro) is now connected
• A connection is made between Age of Griselda and current day
• Hazuki

The bad:

• The pacing was a bit tough. Never felt like there was a break
• The real time battles felt too much like interactive cutscenes
• Two of my theories were debunked, a third one took a hit

Verdict: Fantastic through and through. Of the three bad things I mention, one isn't actually bad (since the resolutions were satisfying and logical, even if my guesses were wrong). The other two criticisms are minor in the grand scheme of things.

Questions raised:

• We get the impression that Renegade Interceptor helps us out while captured by Storm-Nym. How closely are the worlds overlapping?
• What does Vitus want?
• Where did that nuke come from?
• Was Mikael a person in the Old World, and were Vitus and Nymiera actually married in the Old World?
• While this is a Renegade question, which Melia is Renegade MC interacting with? Same as the one from Paragon? The one from the Dead World that went through the Paradox Gate? Clearly not M2.
• Another Renegade question: What is Lorna's actual nature in our world?

Part 2: Xenpurgis and aftermath

Again, this was awesome. I didn't like the start that much, but the Stakataka cores in the sewer weren't too hard to deal with, so it's no big deal. Battles also had the right difficulty, with the plot working well and we get payoff for sidequests and decisions in a nice way. After establishing ourselves, the pace is slower, really allowing to spend time with the characters we've come to appreciate and systematically dismantle the Xenpurgis. Note: I battled Rift Finneon and Hydrapple. The Roguelike section was fun. It's lucky that the Goomink quest is so well known and hyped, because Xenpurgis GDC would be much harder without Ben and Beth.

Then we get to Oblitus. The mood is understandably somber as everyone are treating their wounds and counting their losses. Depending on choices leading up to and during Xenpurgis GDC, we get different characters present and interactions. We learn that Alice's Archetype has grown stronger, resulting in the current state of Oblitus Town, but also how the Archetype can evolve indefinitely and how someone holding The Archetype will eventually lose themselves to their will, setting up an interesting plotline for Alice. Melia is located, claiming to have reached the monster stage. We get a gym battle. The puzzle is easy (I didn't lose a single unit, but recruiting Erin is probably necessary for it to go this smoothly), and the battle itself is tough but fair. Plot then picks up pace again with Madame X draining Allen of his Archetype, and one of the most devastating gutpunches I have ever gotten from any video game. We also get a couple of shoutouts to Old Rejuvenation, meaning M2's world.

The good:

• Everyone helping out led to an amazing bunch of character moments
• Sidequests and decisions feel like they mattered, including sidequests within the city
• Amber's death. Despite having predicted for years that she'd die, I was starting to hope that she'd survive. From the bottom of my heart, and with my deepest respect: Fuck you, Jan. Well played
• The roguelike section. I didn't expect to like it, but I really did.
• The deaths of Kieran and especially Clear

The bad:

• Nona and Ha-Yuen just feel pointless, especially in retrospect. If they'd been a sidequest with consequences, I wouldn't have minded them. But we have bigger fish to fry.
• The deaths of Huey, Lavender and Reina felt off. Not sure how I should put it.

Verdict: Still fantastic. Nona and Ha-Yuen are blights on an otherwise excellent part. Gameplay and charcter moments remain top notch. Ok, I did not like the Lena and Yulia battle in the tower, but the rest of it was great.

The Oblitus section was excellent too. Up to the gym battle, we get a much needed breather with freedom to roam the map. The somber mood is fitting, and the emotional moments we get here are excellent as well. The conclusion of part 2 also holds water.

Questions raised:

• Which Melia is it we're seeing here? Same one we've had with us from the start? Paradox-Melia? Both?
• There's a lot of focus on Huey during that scene. Does he survive? Is there something special about him? During Renegade part 3, we learn that he has a strange (lack of) connection to The Core...
• Why is it so important to enforce parallelism with the Renegade timeline, resulting in the Xenpurgis being activated and Amber being killed
  • Will Renegade MC's EoN spree through Renegade part 3 matter?
  • And why did Melia not kill Talon and Florin, who are both long dead on Renegade?

Prediction: Nona and Ha-Yuen will gain control over what remains of the Xenpurgis, leading to a new threat.

Part 3: Xen Raid, Deux Finalis and Kaina

Xen Raid: Time to take the battle to Team Xen, because we're attacking the main base. I have to admit that I ignored most of the side content, maybe to my own detriment, and focused on the main plot. The Xen executives all get a neat end to their arcs (Nastasia aside), we get the connection between Nastasia and the Storm Chasers, we get the end of Narcissa's arc if we've completed her sidequest. We also get Melia resurrecting someone with MC's Jewel of Life without revealing who. Neved, Nastasia and Geara having joined on their own accord and not being bound by Marianette X is not surprising. No notes on the battles. The Jurisdictions were a fun mechanic and resulted in some interesting battles. They are unfair by definition, but more in the "think through your approach" way. The battle I struggled with the most was Ren vs Yveltal.

This culminates in a battle at Castle Weiss against Madame X, who for some strange reason becomes Madame Shogun and we first get a Pokemon battle followed by a battle against Madame Shogun herself. The battles themselves are challenging, but not unfair. We learn that Vitus was the man behind Team Xen, propping up Madame X to act on his behalf. One could argue that the doomed timeline is foreshadowing for this, with Vitus getting his hands on both Marias, propping up the Melia as Princess. Yveltal being "father", similar to the language Madame X uses, was supposed to be a parallel. This leads to having to deal with Vitus and the recently summoned Storm-Nym. Enter the field of bullshit: Deux Finalis. Vitus and Storm-Nym quickly seize the full group and integrate them into their world, which looks like a real "boring life" parallel. Remember how I praised the battles up to this point? That stops here. Damien and Vitus/Nym were very overtuned (I think the latter has taken two nerfs after my battle against them, which I only won thanks to debug and Max Revives). Storm-Nym leaves almost as quickly as we got her, but Vitus' end did feel good. We leave for an obvious non-ending, then, enter Kaina. All I'll say about Kaina for now is I hate it when we win battles and the game practically denies the victory. It's particularly egregious given where we are in the story. We have a scripted loss after beating Vitus/Nym, so the devs clearly know how to script a loss.

The good:

• Xen Raid provides resolution for the Xen admins, especially Geara
  • And gives Narcissa a fantastic end to her arc too
• Team Xen and Vitus being handled and taken off the table

The bad:

• The Deux Finalis field and Damien + Vitus/Nym being overtuned
• Storm-Nym was underutilized in the story
• Kaina, and the resurrection of Kieran and Clear. For more detail, I refer you to a post by u/oceanadawn post on V14 Paragon for more detail. I agree with most of what they say.
  • The absolutely flimsy justifiation for why Kaina is the level of threat she is. She got access to the Midpoint because Karma just allowed her. Is Zed really that stupid? Or is it something else?
  • The name "Rhaela-Theolia" feels like something from a bad fanfic
• A winnable boss fight where winning doesn't actually matter. Unlike the Marianette X battle at Blacksteeple, where her only using Yveltal and her impressive physical abilities justifies why she hasn't just lost. At that stage, we do not have fully awakened Interceptor powers, nor has Melia's Archetype awakened. This is worse than the Emmanuil battle in Empral Town in Empyrean. Kaina is right that a battle doesn't make the war, and she's physically very impressive, but Melia and MC still have a few Pokemon left each, MC has this new Zygarde form/host powers. Getting killed after winning here is bullshit. Maybe relationship points with Kaina will mean something, and the game will have Karma (or Zed) turn out to be the true final villain on Paragon.

Verdict: Falls off hard at the end. Storm-Nym is underutilized to make way for Kaina.

Now for Kaina. I can't avoid restating some of oceanadawn's points entirely (though oceanadawn's post saves you from reading 8-9k characters of more in-depth ranting from me), but I'll start by quoting something I disagree with: "I think it was an incredibly well executed bad idea". I see it the other way around: Kaina is a poorly executed good idea. The third and fourth paragraphs in oceanadawn's post is why I think Kaina works and is a good idea in a vacuum.

When it comes down to it, Kaina started out as a Paragon Interceptor who happened to didn't succeed in her own world - which happens to be the Second Layer - but helped a lot of other Interceptors making their worlds bloom after resetting her world using the reset system. She ends up turning against her previous ideals after seeing all the worlds she helped end up turning to shit, finding the system pointless and cruel, and that burning it all down is the only solution. While I agree with Erin's take on Kaina, I can see how Kaina came to her conclusion.

While the foreshadowing for Kaina hasn't been strong, I must admit that it's been there. We only see Madame X working with the other Xen admins at Blacksteeple, which also turned out to be Marianette X. The corrupted Togekiss in Cubi Excellus also feels like a hint in retrospect, as well as Kieran and Clear's specific loyalty towards Madame X. Furthermore, Nastasia and Ren faced no consequence for working against Madame X at Eclysia, because that Madame X was Kaina. I've seen theories about there being two/multiple Madame X'es with good logical foundations, so I'm not going to call this a Necron (Final Fantasy IX) case. Only thing that bothers me is how Kaina X is not able to identify MC as an Interceptor in Kugearen. You'd expect her to have more experience than that.

But let's look at why she got access to the Midpoint: Karma decided to allow her access because Karma was more interested in playing games with her than doing what it's tasked to do. This is an absolutely awful decision. Why would Karma do this? It's against what it's created and programmed to do. I could understand if it Karma had been lying, dumped Kaina in a world where she shouldn't have survived and Kaina managed to beat the odds, but nothing justifies a hypercapable AI giving Kaina access to Midpoint. I'm also not much of a fan of the Kaina overlap plot, which boils down to "Garufa Inc had shitty programmers", but that's at least immediately resolved with Kaina killing Melia - assuming that another Melia isn't going to show up, and I believe there are three of those active in the story (including M2).

MC is obviously coming back. Literally all other decisions lead to genuine game overs, I refer you to Partycover's videos on the assimilation and surrender endings (the surrender endings video in particular is worth checking out), and there are two ways it can happen. First, MC is Zygarde host now, and we don't know if MC can be reassembled from Zygarde cells. Alternatively, taking Nancy's dialogue in Zeight regarding how many lives MC has left (curly braces to indicate yellow text): "Between the two of you, there's only enough energy for about {one more chance}. \PN... You must be careful from here on out. If you perish again... There is no second chance.". It should be noted that this dialogue has been around since V13 - I actually copied it from the V13 files. I don't know which effect Crescent's suicide will have, but it might be that she doesn't get resurrected because she took her own life. I think this is needlessly ambiguously written, between "one more chance" and "If you perish again... There is no second chance", the latter comes across to me as Nancy warning MC that we're on our last life. But it's always the colored text that counts.

Maybe this would have felt better if we hadn't had that draining rush of increasingly final bosses that are undermined by the next ones. Marianette X into Vitus/Nym into Kaina is rough for a final stretch. In the interest of being fair in my criticism (and because someone replied to a different critical post regarding three-act story structure), I decided to read up on that structure, and being that chapter 16 is the end of act 2, there is no doubt we have reached our lowest point. MC appears to be dead. Crescent is dead, Melia may be dead, Alexandra, Damien, Venam, Anastasia, Aelita and Erin have five years left to live. In short, the story succeeds on that front.

Questions raised:

• Who did Melia resurrect?
• How did Nastasia and Katsu recruit the Space Hags?
• What caused Karma to give Kaina access to Midpoint?
• Who is "The Prince" that Clear refers to at the final battle in Renegade? Zenos? Zed? Edit: It's Zenos, and it's by the player's chosen gender. If player chooses female, it's "Princess" instead. If player chooses enby, it's "Heir".
• Will Eli change his canon region of origin again? Seriously, this is the third nationality he has across versions.
• The Melia question: How many are there? By my reckoning, there are three by the end of 13.5 across Paragon and Renegade: Original Melia from Paragon, M2, and the orignal Melia from Renegade who is thrown into the Dead World and steps into the Paradox Gate.
  • Are Paradox-Melia and Paragon-Melia the same Melia?

Finally, I'm also going to review my own theories

• "World Shatterer is a different, opposing AI to Karma, locked in an eternal battle": Partially correct. WS is neither an AI nor Karma's equal, but she is an opposing force to Karma. Furthermore, Renegade tells us that Lorna and Zed are AI's. While they are supposed to collaborate on creating scripts (Zed focusing on good endings, Lorna on bad), Zed has effectively kicked Lorna out of the process.
  • "Blooming world requires more than just battling": Debunked. The idea for this subtheory is that for a sustainable world, beating back evil isn't enough. You need to make sure it won't fester. Since we're explicitly told at the end of Paragon that we can set the world as blooming despite the systemic issues that exist in Aevium are still in place is enough that I consider this theory bunk.
  • However, with Renegade and Kaina's motive in mind, I'm fairly sure I actually managed to nail Variya's intention with Lorna and Zed (even if they were an accident in the process). Problem is that Zed is domineering towards Lorna and pushes her out. This leads me to believe lazily writes final resolutions that don't hold up when you look at them too closely, resulting in what Kaina sees. I wonder if that's where Jan wanted to go...
• "Melia is a fusion of the four original Archetype siblings": Debunked
• "Nature of storm-9": Debunked
• "There have been two world resets": Correct. Second layer was Kaina's world before she reset it
  • "Second layer was age of Griselda": Incorrect
  • "Vitus wants to rule the ashes": Probably incorrect
• "Black boxes and servants are the same thing": Undecided. We still don't know where Servants come from.
• "The Interceptor effect as outlined by Crescent is true": Undecided, wasn't touched upon.
• "How the game will end": Debunked. If Jan is going to pull a Reborn and integrate the League into the story, having MC go through the League before battling Kaina/"The Prince"/Zed/some other representation of Karma as the final boss could still happen, but it's so far off my theory that I'm calling it bunk.
  • "Elite 8 setup": Undecided. I'll fill in Hazel as gatekeeper of Arctica. Sienna tells us that she's not in the battling game anymore, so she's probably not the Terrial/Badlands gatekeeper. Madame X/Kaina may still be the champion in practice, but she's not out to reset the world. There's no evidence that I've been wrong about any of my other guesses so far (Tesla, Jolene, Alexandra, Aelita, Hazel, Dylan and Cairo are still alive - only one I couldn't determine was Renegade Crescent), though the plot leading up to it is mismatched.
• "How overlapping functions": Not entirely certain. We learn that Kaina was wearing the armor as overlap prevention, because the soul database in Zeight is so poorly programmed that it somehow managed to assign Melia the same id as Kaina, marking them as the same person. From seeing Kaina with Melia is Castle Rudra, what I called an auto-overlap exists and it's not prevented by the Time Gears. I think I got it right with the statement "Overlaps are only possible if the existence of two instances of the same person is a paradox. Time loops are exempt" though.