Pentatonic Scales - start here!

Pentatonic Scales - start here!

Over the next few days, I am planning to share some very short lessons that summarises techniques I found useful when learning using scales and chords (CAGED).

I also developed an app (mostly free) that builds on this approach. I would be very pleased if you gave it a go and am always pleased to receive feedback.

https://scale-wizard.com/lessons/pentatonic-scales

u/Late_night_guitar — 2 days ago

App that identifies Chords and Keys

Hi, I created an app to help people learn music (scales, chords etc.). I learned from many hours watching YT and reading websites and thought I could do a better job.

One think I did for myself, was add the ability for the app to recognise chords and deduce the key being played. I thought it was pretty cool, but it doesn’t seem to have got much traction. I thought I would share with this group and appreciate any feedback.

It works from sounds picked up by the microphone. When a chord is recognised, it highlights the segment on the circle. Once it has enough info to infer a key, it will highlight that with a blue box.

You can also play music on Spotify (or similar) in the background and it will work in the foreground to analyse. To try it out, bring up the Circle of Fifths and press the Chord Recognition button. You can also watch the demo.

You can access it from this link that also discusses some of the other functions:
https://scale-wizard.com

Hope you like it!

PS. Most of the app is free to use (including the feature I am discussing above)

u/Late_night_guitar — 3 days ago

Pentatonic is at the heart of many scales

If you already know your Pentatonic scales, then these can be easily extended to cover the common different modes. If you’re just starting out, then learn your Pentatonic scales and then use these as a basis to expand to major/minor.

The example I provide looks at different modes with a D root (ignoring D Locrian). The first 3 scales are major (extending the major pentatonic), the next 3 scales are minor (extending the minor pentatonic). The grey notes show the pentatonic and the red/green notes provide the modal colour. It is only the red/green notes that change between the modes.

Also note how the interval notes change between the modes. Although the pentatonic notes remain in each mode, the interval labels change as the notes perform different roles. Bringing in different red/green notes changes the available chords within the mode.

To develop that modal sound make sure you emphasis the correct root note (interval 1). Play against a chord sequence that emphasis the correct tonal centre (use a looper) and avoid playing the tonal centre for major/minor. For example, in D Lydian, consider playing D to E (or better still E/D, keeping a D base). If you do play A or G flat minor, only play them briefly to avoid reverting to a major or minor mode.

Learning the pentatonic scale is at the heart of all harmonic scales. Understanding the additional colour notes will help you learn to target notes and follow chord tones.

u/Late_night_guitar — 15 days ago

Do you take your guitar on the plane?

I have done, squeezing it in to the overhead locker. But the stress of worrying that there will be no space and it goes into the hold is really a concern. Am I worrying needlessly?

This for my holiday, year I am driving. Taking the guitar in the car is a major benefit.

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u/Late_night_guitar — 26 days ago

Learn to see CAGED

Learning to see CAGED shapes in your pentatonic positions is a great way to bridge the link between scales and chords.

The first shape to learn is the “A shape”. This shape forms the “equator” that divides the I and V positions. If you learn the position of this chord/triad, you will always know how to play the “home” chord in any key. The example shown here is the C chord in the key of C.

The next position to lean is the “E shape”. It start with a root position on the first string. If we are playing a major pentatonic (or major scale), we often start here. This can be a good reminder on how to find this “E shape”.

The third shape is really just relevant on the first 3 strings (later you can extend by adding more fingers), it is the “D shape”. It is a bit harder to see in the pentatonic position, but the d shape is easy to remember.

With a bit of practice, you will start thinking of the chords as anchors to the scale, rather than positions I, II, etc. This will make it easy to move between chords and scales.

u/Late_night_guitar — 1 month ago
▲ 11 r/LearnGuitar+1 crossposts

Pentatonic shapes lead to full scales

If you have managed to learn your pentatonic scales (the shapes in various positions) then you are very close to learning your full major/minor (natural minor) scales. The pentatonic scale gives you 5 notes and to that you add two more. In fact there are benefits to thinking about scales this way because the two notes you add help you target the sound of specific chords in the scale.

If you are still to master your pentatonic, take a look at this great video from FretScience. I shows how you can build up the pentatonic scale by thinking about two boxes (the red and blue boxes in the diagram): https://youtu.be/wzWE0dpxnmY?si=tBHQxEvCCqTDlBAw

Pentatonic patterns appear on the fretboard as two boxes, a long/thin box (blue) and a short/fat box (red). It is easiest to see this in the first position (shown here in C major pentatonic). Once you can think of the fretboard in terms of these shapes, it is easy to extend it to major and minor scales (demonstrated in the second diagram). In the C scale, the red notes can be used to reinforce the F and Dm chords and the green notes reinforce the G and Em. So learning the scale patterns this way can help with chord targeting later on.

For those interested, I built this approach into Scale Wizard.

u/Late_night_guitar — 21 hours ago

An approach to CAGED

Too often learning caged means memorising different positions to play the same chord, but not in a way that is can be immediately used to play songs. Instead, consider learning chords that can be used immediately in you song playing.

In this example, chords G, C and D are shown using the CAGED “E shape” and “A shapes”. These chords are the I, IV and V degree of the G major scale and can form the basis of many songs. By learning chords in a similar neck position, the hand has less to do. In this example, try mixing in the traditional “cowboy” chord shapes for C and D. Playing CAGED naturally introduces chord inversions and thereby the chords you play will have a different feel.

Next is to understand where the chords fit with the underlying major scale. Notice that G sites entirely within the G pentatonic. The numbers refer to the scale intervals. Learn then position of the root note (interval 1). C and D also use many of the same intervals as G, but they do not fit within the pentatonic. C also uses the 4th interval and D uses the 7th. Together the 4th and 7th intervals added to the G pentatonic scale given the full G major scale.

CAGED chords can be a framework for playing lead. Some players used the CAGED shapes as a way of seeing the underlying scale. If you understand the CAGED shape on the scale, it can help you target chord tones. In particular, the 4th and 7th intervals are important to target when playing the C (IV degree) and D (V degree).

If you find this view helpful. Scale Wizard can help you see CAGED in you scales.

u/Late_night_guitar — 2 months ago

Targeting Chord tones

After learning pentatonic scales, you will likely go on to learn major and natural minor. It is a good idea to think about this in terms of the 5 pentatonic notes (grey) and the two additional notes for the full scale (green/red). It is these last two notes that gives the scale its colour. Also, it is the variation in these two notes that can give the alternative colour of modes.

The green/red notes also align with specific chords in the scale. In any key, the green note can only be found in the two (predominant) chord tones and the red note can only be found in the two (dominant) chord tones. Meaning, if you play either a green or red note, you are strongly signalling harmonic movement to these chords.

Sounds a bit complicated, but in practice it is pretty simple. Take the key of C for example, the chords are C, Am, F, Dm, G, Em (ignoring Bdim):
• The grey notes will work for any chord in the key, they will reinforce the key tone
• For C (and Am), play the pentatonic notes (grey), emphasise the root note (interval 1)
• For F (and Dm), in addition to the pentatonic notes, target the green note (interval 4)
• For G (and Em), in addition to the pentatonic notes, target the red note (interval 7)

So rather than needing to think about the 3 notes within a chord triad, start by thinking about just the key root and the green/red notes. Play them as the music changes to the corresponding chord. This is a simple approach to get you started. With a bit of practice, your ear will develop to hear when is best use them.

u/Late_night_guitar — 3 months ago

Do you use these two chord voicings?

I like to think about chords in pairs, where I have the chord and it’s relative minor. In the key of C, these pairing would be: C <> Am; F <> Dm ; G <> Em. Songs frequently introduce the relative minor instead of the major chord, or movement between the major and relative minor. Given this, it is good to have an easy way to play them.

When I am in the “E shape”, for example playing G with a barre on the 3rd fret, I often use the “Dm shape” inverted to play Em. If I only barre the first two strings of the G, then playing Em in this form is an easy transition.

Do many people use this approach? I know the inversion is introducing a slightly different feel, but to my ears it tends to fit songs very well.

u/Late_night_guitar — 3 months ago

Have you tried this approach to CAGED?

This approach focuses on how to play the different (diatonic) chords in the various CAGED positions. The way to read the chart is to choose a region of the fretboard and then see how the I, IV, V, Vi, ii and iii chords relate. (Start by learning the major chords and later bring in the minors).

An important part of this approach is understanding how the chords sit on the pentatonic scale. The I and vi chords sit on the pentatonic scale. Play the IV and ii chord by introducing one more (green) note. Play the V and ii chord by introducing one more (red) note. As you learn the CAGED positions, focus how each chord sits on the scale.
You do not need to know the entire fretboard to start playing songs. If you learn one region, you will find all the chords you need.

I hope this helps!

u/Late_night_guitar — 3 months ago

There’s more to a G chord than the shape

Consider the G chord - it is labelled a V chord in the key of C major and the VII chord in the key of A minor.  These different labels are a clue to the different role the G chord plays which we can see by looking at how the G chord sits in the Key.

In the key of C major, G functions as a dominant chord.  There is a strong pull back to the C chord which would resolve the sequence of chord.  This is due to the presence of the 7th (a B note) one semitone from the root of C.

In the key of A minor, the B note is now a 2nd that is a semitone away from a C, which is now a flat 3rd (ie. not the root).  Whilst this relationship tends to give a feeling of movement, there is no strong expectation to resolve.  The other chord tones (4th and flat 7th) are some way from the root (A note) and 5th (E note) of the scale and therefore not exerting a strong pull.

How is this useful?  Learn to think of chord function (or chord degree) and not just the shape.

u/Late_night_guitar — 3 months ago

Playing in D Dorian to a loop of Dm to G is a great way to relax.

I have only recently started to discover modal harmony, where chords are not progressing to a resolution, but instead create a feeling. In Dorian, playing the scale mode to a loop of Dm and G creates a wonderfully reflective/floaty atmosphere. It was also surprisingly easy to adapt from major/minor, bringing out the 6th and correctly find the modal root.

Interested in other modal vamps that might be recommended?

u/Late_night_guitar — 3 months ago

If you already know your Pentatonic scales, then these can be easily extended to cover the common different modes.

The example I provide looks at different modes with a D root (ignoring D Locrian). The first 3 scales are major (extending the major pentatonic), the next 3 scales are minor (extending the minor pentatonic). Because we are looking at modes built around D as root, the root and all of the intervals remain the same. It is the 7th / flat 7th and 6th / flat 6th that change to provide the modal colour.

The scale is only part of the modal story. The set of diatonic chords stay the same, but the tonal centre changes (you can see this from the chords highlighted at the bottom of the picture). Selecting chords that reinforce the mode and avoid the ear reverting to hearing major is also important - the topic of a future post…

u/Late_night_guitar — 4 months ago

I find myself using this shape in place of the traditional CAGED shape. To my ears, it often fits better when playing up the neck (like this example for G). Do others do this?

u/Late_night_guitar — 4 months ago

I have a habit of developing tools that seem useful to me, but don’t seem to meet and learning need. (The last feature was the ability to recognise chords and a song’s key - which I thought was pretty neat - but did not seem to generate much interest).

I am in the process of building a more comprehensive chord lookup feature to my scale app. I have the opportunity to identify which chords are in the scale and which are not. Would this be at all useful, or is it an unnecessary complication? It could be good if you are writing your own songs, but then if you have reached that level, you may not need a chord lookup (and it might be quite niche).

I would appreciate thoughts - and of course, happy to share a link to the current app version (free), for anyone interested….

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u/Late_night_guitar — 4 months ago

Given a set of chords and intervals, you can produce different modal sounds by playing them in a different way. The first consideration is to decide the tonal centre and make this the focal point of your song.

It is easier to take an example. Consider the chords C, F, G, Am, Dm, Em. We would normally use this to play something in the key of C, choosing the chord C to be the tonal centre. Maybe starting with C and certainly resolving our chord sequence in C. This would be C major (otherwise known as C Ionian). With the same chords, instead of C, if we chose to make Am the tonal centre, we would have A minor (otherwise known as A Aeolian). To keep the minor sound, we need to be careful in how we use the C chord - use it to frequently and we end up with a C major sound.

Playing other modes is very similar to playing A minor. With the same set of chords, it I instead make F the tonal centre, then I would be playing F Lydian. The diagram shows all of the different combinations, except for B diminished as the tonal centre which would give you B Locrian.

True modal playing centres on the chords and notes you are emphasising, the duration that you give them and making sure you are resolving to the correct note/chord. The notes you play need to follow the chord. So for F Lydian, if you have F as your tonal centre, your solos need to resolve to an F root. The intervals need to be thought of in relation to this root. Where as intervals in major are falling on the whole (W) and half (H) step pattern - WWH WWWH, you will find that the same notes where F is the root follow - WWWH WWH. Ie the whole step moves from between 3 and 4 to between 4 and 5. In other words, we have a “raised 4th” and that gives a brighter more floaty sound.

Having said all that - does it help our playing much? In my experience, playing other peoples songs, your ear naturally follows the tonal centre and doesn’t really need to know modal theory. The only time I have really found it mildly useful (and interesting), is when looking to understand the chord sequences of songs. Occasionally, you might notice something that is not major/minor - knowing it is modal helps with remembering the chords.

I hope this explanation is helpful to some. I would be interesting to hear from anyone who is making use of it.

u/Late_night_guitar — 4 months ago
▲ 23 r/guitars

Sharing a picture of mine. I did not intend to create one - it started with an attempt to upgrade a cheap Korean Strat style guitar that I bought 30 years ago (a Marlin).

I had taken the guitar to France to use it when I was there, but the pickups were terrible. So I thought I would upgrade them with a set from Fender. I ended up spending too much, and I could not really justify putting them on an old, plywood bodied guitar. I started looking at other parts…

I saw a flame roasted maple neck that happened to have a “soft-V” profile. The profile is my favourite and matched my main guitar. I then saw a body from a 1985 Fender strat that was in my perfect shade of blue. It was meant to be!

That started quite an expensive journey that led to the guitar pictured above. I used all of the modern Fender components and ended up with the guitar I wanted to have 30 years ago.

Now the guitar is too nice to leave in France to play only a couple of weeks a year, so I still find myself playing the Korean…

u/Late_night_guitar — 4 months ago