u/Majestic-Lunch6684

One of the more effective techniques I’ve noticed is when people act in ways that make their future actions hard to predict. This allows them to put people off balance and even intimidate people with more overt power, disrupting expectations and making people think twice. Other times they’ll use a red herring, and then seemingly inconspicuous details will actually turn out to be parts of their plan. I hear a lot about how to use this tactic yourself, but not a lot about how you can counteract it and see through the smokescreen your opponent is trying to put up.

One way I’ve seen other people in higher positions counter this is to set up very clear and specific rules as to what they’re allowed to do. If someone maneuvers in a genuinely unexpected way, they will immediately pull them aside and demand a full explanation, even for minor details. It looks like cutting down on ways the adversary can potentially maneuver helps a lot.

One of the more effective techniques I’ve noticed is when people act in ways that make their future actions hard to predict. This allows them to put people off balance and even intimidate people with more overt power, disrupting expectations and making people think twice. Other times they’ll use a red herring, and then seemingly inconspicuous details will actually turn out to be parts of their plan. I hear a lot about how to use this tactic yourself, but not a lot about how you can counteract it and see through the smokescreen your opponent is trying to put up.

One way I’ve seen other people in higher positions counter this is to set up very clear and specific rules as to what they’re allowed to do. If someone maneuvers in a genuinely unexpected way, they will immediately pull them aside and demand a full explanation, even for minor details. It looks like cutting down on ways the adversary can potentially maneuver helps a lot.

One of the more effective techniques I’ve noticed is when people act in ways that make their future actions hard to predict. This allows them to put people off balance and even intimidate people with more overt power, disrupting expectations and making people think twice. Other times they’ll use a red herring, and then seemingly inconspicuous details will actually turn out to be parts of their plan. I hear a lot about how to use this tactic yourself, but not a lot about how you can counteract it and see through the smokescreen your opponent is trying to put up.

One way I’ve seen other people in higher positions counter this is to set up very clear and specific rules as to what they’re allowed to do. If someone maneuvers in a genuinely unexpected way, they will immediately pull them aside and demand a full explanation, even for minor details. It looks like cutting down on ways the adversary can potentially maneuver helps a lot.

Some of the most dangerous people, in my opinion, are the covert manipulator types. These types of demon will try to tailor their manipulation to get everyone else on their side, and they’ll do it in ways that nobody else can spot, making sure nobody will believe you. It doesn’t have to involve direct mobbing either, as they merely need to succeed in planting seeds of doubt among your friends group. Generally, the best thing you can do with these types is weed them out as you notice them, but there are situations where this might not be possible. They are almost always women, which gives them a huge social edge.

In these situations, they usually have direct access to your social circle and will wreak absolute havoc if left unattended. In these situations I personally believe that gray rocking/stonewalling isn’t an effective method of dealing with them, because unlike other narcissistic types, they can maintain a smear campaign narrative indefinitely. They are extremely calculated and the mere mention of their name can bring panic in people from their emotional abuse. I have rarely ever seen them shoot themselves in the foot like other narcs, because they take the time to plan ahead and covered all their bases.

Agains, these types will tailor their manipulation to different personalities. They are experts at bending the truth in such a way that it makes you look crazy if you tried pointing it out.

I have repeatedly encountered these demons throughout my life, and every time it has resulted in the total destruction of my reputation and social circle. I could use some ideas on how to put up a better defense (or offense) against this.

I’ve been struggling to deal with a specific type of person, ones who immediately begin implementing subtle and effective dominance tactics with other people. Usually, they’ll act uninterested in going along with the group and act with delusional confidence before using their new reputation to turn everyone else against me. In my experience, the only effective way to deal with these demons is to notice them early and do everything I can to kick them out.

The earlier you can do this the better, because these manipulative creatures are hideously destructive if you don’t immediately nip them in the bud. In my opinion the worst types of people are unpredictable ones, because they will constantly try to outsmart and abuse you so they can take everything you own. One issue with this, however, is when they talk behind your back and befriend your people before you can notice.

At that point, the only option is damage comtrol and trying to minimize their influence on me. I am a firm believer that people will backstab you if they think they can do it without resistance, so it’s absolutely vital to enforce your values on your circle. It may seem controlling, but every form of power structure is controlling to an extent. I have also noticed that personally benefitting people can extend their allegiance if you can dangle something they want in front of them, but it’s very difficult to do and maintain.

I’ve seen people suggest this to make a bully lose temper without making yourself look bad, can someone please explain how it works?

I’ve repeatedly had the displeasure of dealing with an earthly demon like this. It was a guy who was ex-military, and he frequently told “stories” about people he outsmarted and “added to his tally”. Unlike other narcs he was completely overt about this, and had a “bring it on” type of attitude where he would dare people to try and stop him. On one occasion he said he’d be willing to take a break and go back to a lower position, and that no matter how hard people tried he would end up back in power eventually.

As weird as it sounds, he also frequently predicted what other people would do before they would do it. I would see him self-aggrandize, then turn around and make fun of what someone was thinking, telling them how he can easily counter their would-be attempt at taking power.

They were also an expert at gaslighting, with people frequently not realizing or questioning his behavior. This guy would overtly say he enjoyed being cutthroat. While a lot of his “victory” stories were clearly embellished or not as impressive with the right frame, he was acknowledged as being extremely good at crushing anyone he deemed a “problem” and outwitting entire groups of people, dividing the group and ousting people he wanted to get rid of.

Most concerningly, he would sometimes get revenge on people over the course of years.

I’ve highlighted this topic on other posts, but this person was so exceptional at dark psychology that it’s worth studying their behavior.

Really, this has been one of the many things making my life hell. At least if you have a frame of reference on how things *should* be, you can adjust course and work towards the better outcome. From there, you can work on your unmet needs and address your vulnerabilities.

But imagine you're like me and don't have a stable frame of reference for what's normal. I experience this constantly, where I can read all the self-help and social skills material until I pass out, and nothing I read can be put to use. Because I'm sorely lacking in a firm basis of reality. It has gotten to the point where I cannot distinguish constructive criticism from manipulative criticism, with someone's comment on my choices totally changing how I feel about it, regardless of whether it's true or not.

>"All people are selfish"? Guess I can't rely on anyone for help, but then I become an easy target for the wolves.

>"If you want to override your learned helplessness, let the world destroy you"? I have still not been able to learn those skills because nobody is here to tell me when I'm doing it wrong.

>"Did my parent abuse me, or were they just assertive and wanting me to be assertive?"

>"Why is (X) doing (Y)?" Maybe they are manipulative, but I don't know if that's true or if I'm just seeing things that aren't there. I consistently get sudden bursts of white-hot rage, so intense that I truly can't control myself until it passes.

Nothing is helping. I cannot even learn from therapy, because I can't distinguish between what's actually helping and what's keeping me crawling back. Everyone looks manipulative or indirect to me, and being on the autism spectrum makes it even more difficult to not take things at face value. When I trust someone, I get stabbed in the back, or I have no idea if the person is manipulative or not. Strong-willed, assertive people look like monsters to me, because they look like experienced professional abusers.

Repeated, constant, unrelenting gaslighting has made me doubt everything about reality and other people. I am trying my best to suck it up, because I have to function and work daily, to afford medication and essentials. If I snap outside of my isolated safe spot, then I will end up in jail for a very long time.

I wish I could nuke my nervous system and start over from scratch. That, or become a manipulative predator, because their need and ability to influence others would still be a huge upgrade to this living hell. I really wish I were strong and smart enough to be manipulative, so I could make reality resemble what it looks like, instead of having to play a video game with no letters on the keyboard. I lack the ability, but the overwhelming disdain and disgust for other people is there. I cannot believe that sadism and manipulation are weak, as in my experience it's a tool of truly powerful people.

I'm not sure if there's any good way to get out of this state, but the game of social power permeates daily life, so I'd better figure out how to play it properly.

Within a system, you have to avoid complaining about things not being fair and look out for yourself, even if you have to “cheat” by taking advantages whenever possible. Like it or not there is always a game at play. I’ve noticed that merely abiding by the terrain doesn’t make you safe from internal competition, which can easily get in the way of your goals. Assuming your goals are intertwined with that group, it may be necessary to compete and climb the ranks. With this in mind, I seem to be experiencing the same set of roadblocks that I need to address.

-Firstly, how exactly does one ascend in a hierarchy without being seen as going against it?

-What are the ways to determine the nature of the system itself?

-Lastly, if nothing else works, what are some ways to form your own group and break off from the original?

I’ve been struggling in these areas and it’s been affecting my life negatively, causing me to miss out on opportunities. Usually, this happens when I keep my head down and perform expected tasks like the others, only for me to be singled out with some excuse.

I'm unsure if this is even applicable to dark psychology, but in some communities, I've noticed how people will pretend to side with someone, work their way up the hierarchy over the course of a long time, and then intentionally act out in such a way that it makes an entire group of people look bad. It's not a bunch of small behaviors over time. These people act "normal" until they get into a decent position, after which they suddenly start acting out in a way that is extremely visible.