▲ 6 r/TheKennedys+2 crossposts

An Italian influencer is claiming that John was a victim of DV and has also shared unflattering allegations about CBK. What's your take on these claims?

I came across a 40-plus-part series on Instagram by an Italian woman who goes by Luvi_storytelling_perfumes ( https://www.instagram.com/luvi\_storytelling\_perfumes/ ). Throughout the series, she discusses John and Carolyn's relationship and claims to have inside sources.

According to her, the information came from her friend, Lavinia Pasanisi de Foscarini, who grew up in New York. She says Lavinia's Italian mother, who came from a prominent family, was very close to the Kennedy family and that Lavinia was John's goddaughter. She further claims that Lavinia received this information from Maria Shriver, who allegedly wanted these details to become public after Love Story ended and gave permission for her name to be used.

She also claims that Caroline Kennedy is aware this information will eventually be released and is comfortable with it. In addition, she frequently refers to two individuals identified only as "C" and "S," whom she says worked at George magazine and are close friends of the Kennedy family but did not want their identities revealed.

Because I don't understand Italian, I had to rely on translations. The following is what she shared. These are her words not mine!

1. Caroline found Carolyn in Jack’s playroom using cocaine, and a few paparazzi caught her while she was under the influence. She allegedly shoved one of the paparazzi, causing the photographer to fall and hit her head on the curb. Apparently, Ted Kennedy hushed up the incident.

2. In November 1996, Carolyn wanted to alter the prenuptial agreement, and the process dragged on for years. She did not succeed on her first attempt. The Kennedy legal team, led by Victoria Reggie Kennedy, refused to budge an inch on the matter. So Carolyn tipped off the press, and stories began appearing in the newspapers about her attempt to modify the prenup. Her intent was to sway public opinion in her favor because of the "unfair" treatment she claimed to be receiving from the Kennedy family.

3. Christmas 1996, Carolyn spent thousands of dollars on gifts for the George magazine staff without John's knowledge. Apparently, John "flew into a rage" when he saw the designer items Carolyn had bought for Rosemarie because he had never "authorized" the purchases. “C" and "S" were also given expensive handbags, which infuriated John even more, as he insisted it was his own money to spend however he pleased. The problem was that this fueled further friction between John and Michael, who were already at odds. Michael was focused on corporate gifts—specifically, making sure everyone received one—so this display of extravagance clearly upset him. The matter ended with John opening a separate account for Carolyn because her spending was spiraling out of control.

4. Due to the friction over the prenuptial agreement, John and Carolyn did not spend Christmas together. Apparently, Carolyn spent it with her family in Greenwich, while John spent it with Caroline, Ed, Ted Kennedy and his wife Victoria, Eunice Shriver, Maria Shriver, and Arnold Schwarzenegger.

5. For New Year's, John went to Big Sky Resort in Montana with Maria, Arnold, Timothy, Anthony Shriver, and some of his friends. Carolyn joined him there and arrived wearing a turtleneck, tight jeans, and high-heeled boots. She had not packed a single thing suitable for the setting because she had no intention of leaving the hotel or learning to ski. The couple fought, trashed their hotel room, and John paid for the damages.

6. On New Year's Eve, Carolyn got into an argument with a waiter just minutes before midnight. She asked for vodka so she could make a toast, but since champagne had just been served to all the guests, the waiter simply asked her to wait until the countdown. Carolyn lost her patience and threw her glass at him.

7. Apparently, John spent a lot of time on the phone with Julie Baker and "C" during that trip.

8. John's friends and family mocked Carolyn's choice of high heels for the trip after she slipped on a patch of ice.

9. Carolyn complained that Maria's children were too noisy, disruptive, and ill-mannered. Apparently, Maria lost her patience when Carolyn began insulting and belittling John at every opportunity.

10. John spent most of the trip skiing with his friends and went on a few more ski trips that winter (early 1997) without Carolyn, including one to Colorado with Julie Baker.

11. Apparently, Carolyn could not stand Maria Shriver because, aside from being Caroline Kennedy's best friend, she was an accomplished, beautiful, intelligent, and respected journalist whom the press praised—unlike Carolyn.

12. Carolyn became irritated when she heard Maria and Arnold speaking German to each other while John was not around, convinced they were badmouthing her.

13. Apparently, Carolyn's aggression toward John escalated during the summer of 1997, and people close to him remembered him being constantly covered in bruises.

14. One morning, John and Carolyn had a fight, and she threw something at him that he could not dodge, striking him on the back of the head. Exhausted and running late for work, he moved to open the front door and leave. He did not see that Carolyn was moving a standard ladder used for changing lightbulbs, which crashed onto his head and sent him sprawling forward. He got back up and went to the office with a splitting headache. As the day went on, however, "C" and "S" noticed something odd about him. "C" saw blood in his hair. Upon closer inspection, beneath John's thick hair, a small cut was visible—one that was already beginning to heal.

15. John told his sister what had happened after he began feeling nauseous and dizzy. "C" took him to the hospital, where a CT scan revealed a concussion. He was kept under observation overnight, and the doctor insisted that he lay down and rest for at least five days. As a result, he stayed at Julie's apartment.

16. John loved Chanel No. 5, and for Carolyn's birthday, he came home with a large bottle of the perfume. She did not appreciate the gift. Instead, she simply told him that she hated it and would never wear it.

17. One evening, while John was working with "C"—he often brought George employees home in the evenings to work—Carolyn returned from an outing with friends after apparently having a wild night. Throwing things was always her first outlet. She was screaming that night, although we do not know what she was saying or why. We only know that she went into the bathroom, grabbed the bottle of Chanel No. 5, and hurled it directly at John. He was grazed by a few shards when it shattered against the wall. That wall of the loft reportedly smelled like Chanel No. 5 for years.

18. One evening, when Carolyn was "not in her right mind," she began striking John in every way possible and kicked him directly in the abdomen. Not satisfied with that, she grabbed a baseball bat and struck him in the same area. John ended up in the hospital with three cracked ribs, one of which had nearly punctured his lung. He had to wear a brace for three weeks.

….so throwing things wasn't exactly unheard of when it came to Carolyn, considering the way she treated Bergin. The prenup story also sounds plausible to me. What I have a harder time believing is the claim that John was constantly covered in bruises. He was photographed shirtless all the time, and it seems like the press or the public would have noticed something like that. I've also never seen any evidence that he wore a brace for broken ribs. And John & Carolyn went alone to the Big Sky Montana resort, and the owners of a diner they went to said she was wearing jeans, practical shoes and a shirt that said “Happily Ever After”. There was no mention of any other Kennedy there. So some of her claims don’t add up. She and Maria looked close at the 1998 Fire and Ice Ball..

This whole series is just so bizarre. There's a lot more, too. Should I make a Part 2?

u/Historictea — 6 hours ago
▲ 8 r/TheKennedys+1 crossposts

The Men We Became by Robert.T.Littel

Opinions

Is this book The Men We Became by Robert.T. Littell reliable because of his over the top gushing towards John Jr and Carolyn bessette, and trying to show how close were, even playing down other issues that other friends hatheyve written about.

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u/Over_Ship_209 — 18 hours ago

"She's The Best Shot I Got" Quote From The Men We Became book a sign of John impulsive need to marry Carolyn after his mother's death.

Opinions

Did this quote "She's The Best I Got" a sign that he was willing to settle with Carolyn out of fear and grief of being alone, that ultimately affected john Jr and Carolyn bessette troubled relationship.

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u/Over_Ship_209 — 1 day ago
▲ 169 r/JohnAndCarolyn+1 crossposts

Unpopular opinion: Carolyn felt threatened by Daryl Hannah.

Photo: John and Daryl Hannah at his farewell party after he resigned from the Manhattan District Attorney's Office in July 1993.

Before I get downvoted, hear me out.

John's close friend, John Perry Barlow, told one author that one of the reasons John and Daryl didn't remain in contact was because of Carolyn. According to Barlow, "It wasn't possible for him to have any contact with Daryl because Carolyn was rather controlling." Barlow was close to both John and Daryl and spent a lot of time around them while they were dating.

Personally, I don't think Carolyn was overly controlling in general. She didn't seem to have a problem with John staying friends with Julie Baker until Julie crossed boundaries that made Carolyn uncomfortable with how close she was to him, which is understandable.

What stands out to me is that Carolyn reportedly didn't want John to have any contact with Daryl at all, regardless of whether Daryl even wanted to stay in touch. To me, that suggests Carolyn viewed Daryl differently and may have felt threatened by the possibility of John maintaining any kind of friendship with her.

John had previously left Carolyn to reunite with Daryl more than once, so it's understandable that she may have felt insecure about that history. In fact, Carolyn's mother sent her a newspaper clipping of John and Daryl together in 1993 and encouraged her to move on, reminding her that John had left her for Daryl before. Another factor was that Carolyn never had the chance to meet Jackie because of Daryl. At that point, John was in a committed relationship with Daryl, so Carolyn never met her future mother-in-law before Jackie died in 1994. The last woman Jackie knew her son was dating was Daryl. That may have been disappointing for Carolyn and could have been a blow to her ego.

That's not to say John and Daryl had a perfect relationship—they had plenty of problems of their own. Like many of John's relationships, theirs also began with infidelity on both ends.

Maybe Carolyn feared that if John and Daryl maintained a friendship similar to the one he had with Julie Baker—meeting for lunch regularly, having Daryl visit his office, giving her his private number and being in regular contact, or inviting her to birthday parties—it could eventually lead to another reconciliation.

That's just my interpretation based on what's been said.

u/Historictea — 4 days ago

Tabloid Stories and John Jr

Opinions

John Jr had close relationships with the media and so did his friends.

It would have been impossible for stories about his relationship with Carolyn not being true if John Jr didn't know that friends were probably leaking them to the press without his knowledge.

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u/Over_Ship_209 — 6 days ago
▲ 88 r/JohnAndCarolyn+1 crossposts

Does Jack Schlossberg's Loss Finally and Mercifully Mean the End of the Kennedys in Public Life?

At least for elected office?

They have more than enough time in the Sun. It's time to exit stage left now.

As far as I know, there are no Kennedys elected to public office today, or planning to run this year, correct? At least, I hope not.

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u/No_Interaction_4655 — 8 days ago

The Kennedy Curse by Edward Klein

Does this book give more of a realistic image of John Jr and Carolyn relationship more than friends were willing to talk about in public and their own books? The author has defended his sources including friends and family not giving their names and defended his own research for the book. The nail polish is not a real story when everyone was late for different reasons and doesn't need to be discussed again.

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u/Over_Ship_209 — 11 days ago
▲ 3 r/JohnAndCarolyn+1 crossposts

Why Did the Show Depict Carolyn Crying Hysterically Over the Paparazzi?

After all, she wanted to land JFK, Jr, she was party coke gal, and she was in the PR business.

She wanted to be America's Princess and be the American version of Diana.

And, if JFK didn't want so much attention, why was he constantly seeking attention with his shirtless antics and appearing on the Tonight Show and granting interviews left and right?

Gimme a break..they bothe CRAVED the attention. They could have moved anywhere on the planet with his resources and led quiet lives. But, that is exactly what they did NOT want.

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u/No_Interaction_4655 — 8 days ago
▲ 60 r/JohnAndCarolyn+1 crossposts

Emmy nominations for Love Story

Sarah nominated! Paul very surprisingly snubbed :( I for sure thought he would be nominated. Also nominated for Limited Series!

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u/Over_Ship_209 — 17 days ago
▲ 31 r/JohnAndCarolyn+1 crossposts

Do you think Carolyn would really have let go of John and the life their marriage gave her?

Would she have walked away from a man she loved, along with the wealth, privilege, and social status that came with being married to him? Despite her issues with fame and paparazzi, Carolyn still enjoyed the many perks that came with being JFK Jr's wife.

John's friends have said they believed he was ready to end his marriage to Carolyn. In their view, their deaths prevented John from ever having the chance to tell Carolyn that he was done and the marriage was over. They also believe he would have moved on within a year or two, recovering from the divorce much more quickly than Carolyn would have, and that Carolyn was going to have a hard time getting over him.

Would a divorce have happened if only one spouse wanted it?

To date, there has been no literature, interviews, quotes, or articles indicating that Carolyn viewed her marriage as over or that she was considering divorce. The public record is the complete opposite of what has been said and written about John, whose friends have repeatedly stated that they believed he was ready to end the marriage. Carolyn's friends have expressed the opposite view. Her close friend Gordon Henderson, for example, said he believed that if they had lived, John and Carolyn would have gone on to have children together.

The question remains: Would Carolyn have let John go without a fight?

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u/AutoModerator — 5 days ago
▲ 1.1k r/JohnAndCarolyn+1 crossposts

Unpopular opinion: If Jackie had been alive to see that fight in the park, John NEVER would’ve married Carolyn

Everything comes down to whether Jackie would’ve lived long enough to see the relationship and meet Carolyn.
I’ve seen a lot of people say John and Carolyn still would’ve gotten married and that Jackie would’ve loved her, but nahhh. Jackie had a lot of influence over John’s decisions, and her opinion carried a lot of weight. If she had been alive to see that fight in the park, he would’ve had to find someone else because I just can’t see Jackie being okay with the family being embarrassed like that and them putting their hands on each other, cause she was all about “class”

If Jackie had accepted her, I think her life would’ve been completely different and so much easier. She would have had protection.

u/Over_Ship_209 — 23 days ago

John F kennedy Jr and Daryl Hannah

Was the media more positive towards John Jr and Daryl Hannah relationship? How did the media treat Daryl Hannah being in a relationship with John compared to how they treated Carolyn being in a relationship with John? Why did John Jr try to reconnect with Daryl Hannah and was it for a reason, before he died?

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u/Over_Ship_209 — 27 days ago

John Jr

Did the older generation who grew up with President Kennedy and his family, judge who John Jr dated and married differently from how the younger generation judged who John Jr was dating?

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u/Over_Ship_209 — 27 days ago

John f kennedy Jr and Daryl Hannah

Opinions

Did Carolyn bessette remind John Jr of Daryl Hannah and how he would act with both of them in front of the media?

Did John Jr try to reconnect with Daryl Hannah before he died?

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u/Over_Ship_209 — 27 days ago

John F Kennedy Jr friends

Has John Jr friends changing stories about what was happening in John's life in books and documentary done more harm than good to John Jr memory?

Did John have friends that were never involved in books and documentaries, but know the real story about his life?

Are John Jr friends honest people or even close to john than they claimed?

Did Johns friends take advantage of the Kennedys silence to twist the truth to sell books and cause more speculation at the cost of no one being able to sue them?

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u/Over_Ship_209 — 1 month ago

Fairytale or Love story?

Opinions.

Why do friends criticise Michael Bergin writing a book but have been involved in multiple books about Carolyn while promoting the love story between john and Carolyn?

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u/Over_Ship_209 — 1 month ago

Did the 'taxi cab theory' play a big role in John and Carolyn relationship after johns mother died and before their engagement? Do you think that it played a role in John's need to be seen as a respected magazine publisher?

Opinions.

The 'Taxi Cab Theory' is originally coined by Sex and the City where people are like cabs. When there light is on, they are ready to settle down, the next person they meet is the one they will marry. In other words someone will commit to a relationship based on timing and readiness, instead of having a connection with that person.

Was the 'taxi cab theory' a factor in John getting married to Carolyn by wanting to settle down and starting a new career, without any compatibility or connection by the way he quickly got engaged after getting back together and how it began to unravel after the wedding?

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u/Over_Ship_209 — 1 month ago

Why do people think that the love story is a good show, when realistically it was incredibly bad, disgusting to women and boring.

Opinions on whether the Ryan Murphy TV show should be given a platform for their disgraceful treatment of women, bad and inadequate scripts and acting, especially with the actors trying to promote themselves for awards season nominations.

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Why do you like it or hate it?

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u/Over_Ship_209 — 1 month ago

Was John Jr unable to stop the kennedy brand from becoming more discredited in the public eye and only become part of the tabloids dream of family dramas that fed the media machine? Are the kennedy still relevant today or are they only famous for their past media dramas?

The TV show was terrible and only exposed how irrelevant all the Kennedys were including john and Carolyn.

Is the kennedy brand relevant anymore and did it affect John's need to be taken seriously?

Has people's perspective changed about john Jr over the years?

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u/Over_Ship_209 — 1 month ago

Jacqueline kennedy onassis

I have notice that people say that nobody john Jr brought home to his mother Jackie kennedy onassis would have been good enough for her son, but she met multiple overlapping girlfriends except Madonna and Carolyn.

The real kennedy tragedy was that Jackie kennedy onassis was right about everything that led to John Jr tragic death, including flying and a line of disaster relationships including his marriage. I think jacqueline kennedy onassis was John Jr greatest advisor in his life, who opened her door to John's on off girlfriends, except for a few.

John Jr older sister Caroline has always been betrayed as jealous and cold, but it's almost like Caroline had to be John's second mother and take all the blame for John's behaviour. People refuse to acknowledge that she was forced to grow up quickly when her father died including having to kneel at her father's coffin with her mother in public.

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u/Over_Ship_209 — 2 months ago