u/Particular_Bit_1683

I proved UM ranking is wrong cuz tf is point of blood battles if Muzan is constantlly power scaling and does not allow single flaw in ranking + arranges all demons perfectly in ranks as new ones appear and old ones die/drop out

I proved how strong Wingen and Giyu are

i proved how strong Shinobu is

I made post saying Base Sanemi is NOT stronger than marked Muichiro, and defended Mui like no one else could

im gonna end Mitsuri slander too

+ also end all dumb agendas like Tanjiro being in top 5 of verse and stronger than Kokushibo when he clearly was completelly and utterlly outperformed by Hashira in final fight. (He litterally fought weaker Muzan and lasted shorter, that aint no Akaza level feat)

(AND IT ALL GETS UNDERESTIMATED JUST CUZ OF NUMBER IN EYE OF GUY WHO NEVER EVEN HAD BLOOD BATTLE AND WAS STUCK IN ED FOR OVER 100 YEARS CUZ OF DAKI

CANON BTW )

Idk why people keep coping by saying other characters magically surpass Tengen in every possible aspect when he is literally mentioned in both UM4 and UM1 fight

as either glaze material (word "EVEN" was used so he is top 2 in attack speed) or object of admiration

(Muichiro ,even with mark and post HTA, still clearly did not posses more durability than even Sanemi, let alone Tengen, as he admitted

and by extension, other hashira didnt magically surpass Tengen in physical stats either with marks)

So basically, Koku destroys Douma in cqc and cuts him up without even having to use Moon Breathing since Douma couldnt react to even Inosuke taking back Kanao's sword that was next to him.

Or Inosuke's shoulder dislocated slash, and he admitted he is slower than Shinobu who is not even fastest or most skilled hashira. That title goes to ceirtain flamboyant guy. His bda is diffrent story but Kokushibo just cuts up his ice attacks and Buddha with Moon Breathing forms.

thats all

Bonus questions: KOKUSHIBO VS JETSTREAM SAM, WHO WINS?

KOKUSHIBO VS RAIDEN, WHO WINS?

1: Even if you put the undeniable fact Tengen performed far better under same circumstances of losing arm like Marked Mui and Giyu + having more handicaps and less amps than them aside

Tengen still showed numerous other crazy feats + offical lists and rankings which confirm he is top 1 ( Also he is mentioned both in UM4 and UM1 fight

as object of admiration or glaze material if you wanna use UM ranking that much)

2 : Giyu was able to react to Muzan's attack along with Gyomei and protect children which no one else could, confirming Giyu>Sanemi

3: Sanemi has very good BIQ but it has absolutely nothing to do with him swinging sword with foot or using gun, oil and fire. That's scrap fighting

4: Kokushibo defeated Muichiro quicker because he used more power than against Sanemi.

To make sure fight ends quickly with no serious injuries, he wanted to turn him into demon as his descendant.

5: Sanemi, Rengoku, Obanai, Shinobu, Kanae all excell at ceirtain stats compared to others but are overall equal.

6: Muichiro and Mitusri have stats on same level as others but only lack expirience which is crucial.

7: Shinonu is faster than Douma and overwhelms him in cqc skills and reaction and combat speed as well (which of course means Tengen and Gyutaro do as well since Tengen is officially faster and showed amazing feats)

problem is just that she likes power behind her thrusts and poison, her only way of fighting does not work on Douma

8: Douma loses to everyone in cqc skill, reaction speed, combat speed etc, though in his defense, he is BDA based demon

not combat based like top 3 ( Koku, Akaza and Gyutaro)

9: Douma just filled in spot of UM2 since Kokushibo ate previous UM2 and Akaza didnt care about it and was focused on Koki

(Also Akaza complained to Muzan because of Douma yapping in his head, which is why telepathy is mentioned before Akaza complaining in first place)

10: Muichiro only won against UM5 cuz of plot armour since his amp is diffrent than Mitusri who was doing better than him against UM4 in base.

Koku should also wipe floor with all of Corps if he isnt plot nerfed

Yeah guys, you got me, Tengen poisoned himself, dug his eye out and cut his own arm off to teach himself to fight while not lopping his head or arm off with loose end of weapon, before EDA.

Not like he is once in 300 year fighting genius who could adapt despite more handicaps and no mark in seconds, while Giyu and Muichiro clearly stated losing an arm was problem, and they werent even poisoned.

(oh and side note, this guy is also sort of 2nd in raw strength+fastest+killer trained since he was like 7 and has various martial arts and weapon techniqeus at dispostal+Super Human hearing+MST

ALL OF THIS IS DISREGARDED CUZ OF NUMBER IN EYE OF GUY WHO NEVER EVEN HAD BLOOD BATTLE CUZ HIS SISTER WANTS TO FEEL PRETTY AND COULDNT MOVE AN INCH FROM ED)

(no hate to Giyu (litterally my favourite) and Muichiro, just defending Tengen and using them as scaling material

Happaned in manga too btw+Anime was given OK)

Not to mention Tengen was using weapon meant for dual wielding the way he wasnt used to with 0 prep time and had to angle his slashes so that his own weapon doesnt kill him

+fight two armed opponent with one arm with enough speed who is right in his face in high speed cqc

+poisoned

No matter how you look at it, Tengen just showed combat speed, durability, precision, reaction speed, BIQ far above any hashira except Gyomei who is on par with him.

(If you really wanna use UM ranking, MITSURI WHO IS WAY SLOWER THAN TENGEN DODGED ALL DRAGON HEADS OF ZOHAKUTEN

SHINOBU WHO IS SLOWER THAN TENGEN AND GYUTARO OUTSPED DOUMA

not to mention he was used as glaze material or object of admiration in UM4 and UM1 fights. + narration said "attack speed EVEN faster than Tengen" not just "faster than Tengen". And its only cuz of the whip. Like i just proved, Tengen takes AALLLLL the other stats)

(Tengen clearly matching Gyomei in feats aside (you can come back after debunk my recent post) there is also this)

Everyone else: Respecting Gyomei, being envious or saying he is strongest.

Tengen: Woath, cool height bro, finally met a guy who is bigger than me, you are pretty strong.

(Side note: Sanemi also sees Tengen as big brother and respects him.

+Tengen could be talking about arm wrestling and pure raw strength)

( Calling it right now, everyone is going to be too scared to adress stats

No guys, getting dog walked by UM1 who has wet dreams about past, not landing a single slash alone and having to be saved 5 times does not make you UM1 level

No guys, mark is not Super Saiyan boost with minimum 50 times increase in all stats, no guys HTA did not benefit Hashira more than it did rookies so in rpg terms, they leveled up from lvl100 to lvl102 at most)

+Gyutaro never even had blood battle before + its canon had to stay in ED 24/7 cuz of Daki who would get killed in Blood battle 100%

Tengen even tells him he is so shut off from world he has innocent/rose outlook on world

.

.

.

.

Base Tengen vs Marked Sanemi

1 : Strength - Id think this is pretty obvious since its 6'5 300lbs+ guy vs 5'10 200+ lbs guy. Muichiro was also clearly inferior to hashira who were ranked "strong" in that strength ranking even after getting mark.**

( And diffrence between Tengen's and Sanemi's physical stats is even bigger than between Sanemi's and Muichiro's (than again, that should be obvious by looking), mark allows body to use 100% of its strength instead of 50-60%. )

2 :Speed - also obvious, aside from Tengen officailly being fastest, his speed is mentioned and shown over and over again, he is also shown straight up disappearing even when not using Sound Breathing and holding back so he can protect civilians in first half of fight against Gyutaro.

( Now mark does affect speed more, id compare it to advance from Kengan since both place burden on body. So it increases rotation rate and of course sharpness of attacks increases as well + attacking with more speed at the same mass is obviously boost.

But i dont think it goes that far above 100% since there would have obvious side effects, good example being advance from Kengan, where at full throttle, Advance kills its user in a matter of minutes. Also, aside from too big of a gap, Tengen has body swiftness, movement body cordination, and agility of ninja )

3: IQ - Tengen or Sanemi i guess, neither of them have showed anything that would suggest iq higher than the other.

4: BIQ - Tengen 100%, he was able to kick Daki up while defending against Gyutaro and not hit any of bombs he threw in cramped up space while its dark+his weapon is basically 1 fuck up=dead, thats how dangerous it is.

(Sanemi did demonstrate that he is creative but all he did is swing sword with his feet, using gun, as well as fire and gasoline, but there is diffrence between scrap fighting and biq)

5 : Combat Speed - no need to talk about this, Giyu and Muichiro after getting DSM and going through HTA stated they werent as effective without arm.

Meanwhile Tengen who also had same handicap was also poisoned and was using way more complicated weapon than simple katana, he had to angle his every parry so that loose end with giant fckin meat cleaver attached to it wouldnt lop his head or limb off

AND HE HAS ONE HAND WHILE DOING THIS AND HAS TO DEFEND FROM BOTH SIDES since his opponent has both hands of course.

6: Expirience - Stated by Sanemi himself that it is crucial and that he would end up like Muichiro if he didnt have expirience..... Tengen has like 15 years on everyone......

not to menton all those unarmed and weapon techniques+knowlede of human anatomy as assasin trained since birth.

7: Durability - Also quiet obvious because of reasons previously mentioned + stopping heart with muscls takes way more skill and muscle control than stopping your organs from spilling out.**

(THINK ABOUT IT GUYS, TENGEN COULD CLEARLY STILL FIGHT WITH ONE ARM YET GOTOUGE DECIDED TO MAKE HIM RETIRE + his attack speed was mentioned in UM4 fight and physice in UM1 fight, if you are that set on using numbers

man was just too powerfull for the plot, if you dont believe any of this just ask Sanemi fans for feats that top this, they will go quiet or cling to Sanemi supposedelly going toe to toe with Kokushibo)

Whats the matter guuuyyysss, i thought Tengen is weakest and other hashira DEFINETLLY have better feats than him other than "hashira x exchanged some blows with demon y so hashira x can definetlly keep up with demon y and is relevant" .

So where are those feats that match what i described in that post, or cqc, skill, speed and dc feats of UM5, UM4 and UM2 that match UM6. I mean, Gyutaro is definetlly weakest so you shouldnt have problem finding proof in story right :D

You can also most likely explain how Nakime made it to UMs even though she cant even mildly damage hashira and if Muzan allows even demons like that to become UMs what does that tell you about UM ranking (dude even asked humans he hates so much to become UM lol)

FInally, official confirmation that Tengen is that far below other hashira and proof as well, i know you will provide without fail and we would all like to see it :) .

(which is gonna be kind of hard since Tengen was mentioned both in UM4 fight and UM1 fight as way to glaze and word "EVEN" was used, and other time was as object of admiration)

Tengen steam rolling same Tanjiro who tagged Sanemi aside, marked Muichiro and Giyu who is stronger or at least more less equal to Sanemi was in almost same position as Tengen and couldnt show as much skill and adaptability despite using simple katana.

Not to mention they had additional amps like HTA and DSM while Tengen had more handicaps, and Tengen STILL did better while other two admitted losing hand is problem.

(+Tengen was mentioned both in UM4 and UM1 fight as either way to glaze ATTACK speed or object of admiration

note that it said " faster than EVEN Tengen" not just "faster than Tengen")

.

.

.

I get it guys, i really do, you are jealous of Tengen, he reminds you of that 6'+ guy you feel so inferior to and is cause of your insecurity way too much. But try not to bring your jealousy into scaling please.

I feel like people got to the point that they think ranking itself is buff and every number gives you amp, and forgot core or potential of demon matters the most.

1: So for starters, blood battles exist, so unknown demon being able to challange someone who is UM1, beat him and not even take spot of UM1 if he doesnt want to already debunks the whole "ranking is absolute".

2: Demons who just filled in empty spots without earning them like Kaigaku, Douma and Nakime exist, Kaigaku was directly stated to do so.

Nakime clearly showed lack of power to even mildly damage hashira, and Upper Moons are supposed to be killing hashira even if its 3v1.

Douma just got the spot of UM2 after previous one got eaten by Kokushibo after challenging him while Akaza just didnt give a damn about ranking.

(Before you say it, he complained to Muzan because Douma was yapping in his head, which is why telepathy among UMs was mentioned in the very same statement you are using to slander Akaza and make it look like he was crying to Muzan cuz Douma was placed higher than him.

Like he is some kid who cries to his parents if things dont go his way)

3: Amount of Muzan's blood whch is used to find Upper Moons in Infinity Castle does not mean anything because potential of demon matters the most. (that is also why they couldnt tell which demon is which)

You can give that npc demon from beginning of series all the blood in Muzan's body, he is not becoming strong enough to actually be considered part of 12 moons at all.

Reason im proporsing is because some people have Shinobu too low fam

She is pretty OP in human vs human fight and has a chance of beating any hashira, her skill is no less than theirs either. and anything can happen in human vs human

(I can only say for ceirtan she is losing to Tengen and Gyomei 100% because those two monsters perfectlly balance all stats which are also monstrous+Tengen has wincons aside from raw physical stats and insane skill

Well, Giyu does too, tho his stats are not as broken his chances are almost ceirtain too)

(Kubo stated Aizen was ceirtain he would be completelly worn out even if he won against Unohana and that was Aizen using Kyoka Suigetsu and not even fighting her head on+doubt her bankai was taken into consideration.

Zaraki was also called one of greatest weapons for Soul Reaper vs Quincy wars and Unohana killed him countless times and had to use her bankai to revive him over and over)

13: Mayuri

12: Tousen

11: Komamura

10: Sui Fong

9: Toshiro

8: Kenpachi

7: Byakuya

6: Gin

5: Ukitake

4: Shunsui

3: Aizen

2: Unohana

1: Yamamoto

Its not that i dont get them, they are frustrated because they lost every debate against me, but lying about me and spreading misinformation is going too far.

Unless of course person in question can show when did i say Tengen is Akaza/UM2 level or that Base Tengen beats Marked Gyomei.

I said Base Tengen beats other marked hashira but he needs mark for Gyomei.

And when i said i was the reason Giyu was getting respect, which is true, ceirtan person was so frustrated he kept losing to me that he claimed i said same thing about Sanemi.

Than when i asked for screenshots, he ran away just like this one.

(i know this is rant but i just hate it when people lie about me)

For mods: Base Tengen>Any marked hashira except Gyomei (He needs mark to beat him)