u/Playful-Passage-3867

I feel like in the original trilogy of hunger games books Effie is much less likeable than in the movies, largely due to Elizabeth Banks phenomenal performance.
But I think making her so kind and likeable in Sunrise on the Reaping (which takes place 24 years before the original book), takes away from her character arc in the original books.

In the movies, I feel like Effie is likeable honestly from the get go, but in the books it takes a while for the reader to truly warm to her. It isn’t until some of her final sequences in Catching Fire that we truly can see she has grown to care for Katniss and Peeta, and can finally see the games for what they are, which she had never done before since all her tributes probably died early into their games and never won.

But her inclusion in Sunrise on the Reaping and her seeming to deeply care for Haymitch kinda defeats her character arc of a woman completely brainwashed by the Capitol who eventually lets the Capitol torture her rather than give up any information.

It almost feels like this decision has been made because of how likeable and popular of a character she was in the movies, rather than trying to be consistent with the books.

I don’t know about anyone else, but when she first was mentioned in the Sunrise of the Reaping book, I genuinely rolled my eyes so far back in my head because it could not have felt more like fan service to me. I was shocked when I went online and everyone was so happy she was there, because it just felt like she was included for the sole purpose of fans nutting themselves from excitement at her inclusion.

Maybe some of you guys have a different opinion. If so I would love to hear your takes!

I consistently see people say:
“isn’t it ironic Bill was called dumb by everyone but planned the most successful heist in the game”.

I don’t know if people missed out on some camp interactions, but I got a camp conversation of Karen recruiting Bill for the Bank Robbery. I linked a clip of the camp interaction there. I also got another interaction with Karen I can’t find anywhere of her telling me how disappointed she was that we left Valentine before robbing that bank.

I don’t know why people give Bill the credit, honestly had he planned it then it might’ve all went wrong. Is it just that people didn’t get these camp interactions or do people just really like Bill and want him to succeed or do people just really not want to give Karen the credit?

I will die on the hill that Karen is one of the greatest members of the Van Der Linde gang, prior to her alcoholism.

okay this post is in no way sexist, i loved the female characters and talking to them in camp, however none of them really did anything.
this post also does not apply to sadie.
i understand they all play the role of homemakers in camp, but like.. did any of them even participate. the only ones i actually saw helping around camp were tilly and susan. also do they really need that many women just to make the camp cosy, i mean surely that can’t be more than a 3 person job (and pearson also takes part in setting up camp).
i also understand susan’s unique role as head of camp and making sure camp runs smoothly, and i get why she’s there, and tilly as an additional helper to susan makes sense.
i guess im mainly talking about mary-beth and karen (and i guess molly but i assume dutch just allows molly to be there as his girlfriend). what did they actually bring to the camp? mary-beth just kind of sat their and read books whilst karen just walked around and then mainly drank in the second half of the game. don’t get me wrong these two are two of my favourite characters to speak to in camp, especially mary-beth, but for the camps survival, aren’t they technically just more mouths to feed.
i don’t want to sound like a sexist pig because i am not in the slightest, but i guess i am just somewhat confused on why they would want so many of their gang members be people who can’t use weapons to fight (since women obviously played a more domestic role in this time period and never learnt). like why not keep the gang just the main gunslingers, susan, pearson, tilly and trewlany. they would be much better off and be able to afford a lot more as they have less mouths to feed.
this doesn’t just apply to the women, it also applies to uncle and reverend. i mean they are practically useless as well.
honestly had the gang not had all these useless members, maybe they would have had more money to go around and be less worried about feeding the gang.
also the reason i didn’t mention abigail here is because she was in rdr1 and mentioned as riding with the gang, so they kind of had to include her in rdr2 for continuity, but in terms of story i don’t understand why abigail was there aside from being the mother to johns son.
maybe im just stupid and maybe this is a historical accurate part of western gangs, that they had a lot of women who were playing that domestic role, but i just can’t understand why the gang would willingly have more mouths to feed of people who can’t fight or get them money in any way.

Like each of their houses are destroyed at least once right?
Susan’s was burnt by Edie, Brees was destroyed by the tornado, Gabrielle’s was destroyed by Carlos and Gabrielle and I feel like Lynette’s was definitely compromised at least once.
Anyway, why do they never change anything about their houses. Even those who love their homes, after years and years of living in them, we all have something we wish we could change. Even something small, but nope. Susan got her house burnt completely, yet 3 episodes later it’s exactly how it used to be.
I also find it crazy they all still have so much old stuff after their houses were destroyed.

Oh also, something I’ve just thought of, in s6 Karl gives Bree a broach that he originally gave but stole from Susan, and when Susan sees it she’s shocked and says she lost it a few years back. But why wouldn’t she just have assumed it burnt down when her house burnt down and she probably lost all her stuff.

I have heard this plot line was originally intended for Susan and Mike rather than Gabrielle and Carlos, and honestly I would have much preferred it.
Firstly, it contradicts the fact that Gabrielle and Carlos both mention how much Juanita resembles the women in the Solis family, especially Mama Solis. It is quite literally the first thing Carlos noticed when he gained his sight back.
Secondly, Susan and Mike got some of the most boring storylines in my opinion, and it would have been nice to actually see them get something interesting.
In addition, it would have given MJ something interesting. I’ve said this on this subreddit before, but Juanita is the only child in the show who is truley given a huge personality with feelings and traumas that affect her and she’s the only one who truly has big storylines. It would’ve been nice to give MJ something interesting to work with, since aside from his one episode of getting bullied, he doesn’t really do or say much.
Also, this may be a reach, but does it feel a little out of character for Gabrielle. We saw in early seasons how little she actually cared about blood (interestingly Carlos really did care about blood), so why is she so interested now?
Also it feels dumb, since the show was basically trying to say “the reason Juanita is fat and looks nothing like Gaby is because she’s not actually hers”. Which, sure Juanita looks NOTHING like Gaby, but she looks pretty identical to Celia. Celia was so neglected in this storyline honestly. Because the show was saying “Look Gaby’s real biological daughter is skinny and pretty” (putting everything in quotes because I disagree with the concept of labelling children is either ugly or pretty but apparently the rest of the world thinks that’s normal but anyway), but what about Celia. The fact that the Solis’ had identical daughters (Juanita and Celia), whilst the Delfinos just had one child ,who only slightly resembled Mike a little bit, means the storyline could’ve been so much more believable if it was MJ who was swapped at birth.

I honestly feel like the only reason they changed it to Gabrielle and Carlos is because someone on the writers team probably went
“Can you imagine if Gabrielle called ICE on her bio daughter’s parents”.
And then that’s it. Because that’s the only aspect of the storyline that would’ve been insanely different between the storylines, the fact that Juanitas bio parents could’ve been illegal mexican immigrants.
I honestly think another reason they could’ve done it is because of how hated Juanita was vs how loved Gabrielle was. Maybe they wanted to say “don’t worry guys Juanita isn’t really hers”.

Also this only a concept and it may be too dark for this show, but remember in season 5 how Mike and Susan ran over Dave’s child and wife (and the child was born at the same time at MJ). Imagine how much darker they could’ve made it if they made Dave’s child a boy (the one who was born at the same time and hospital as Susan’s) and Mike and Susan find out that MJ was Dave’s child but switched and they realise they ran over their own biological child. MJ kinda looks like Dave too.

Overall I hated this storyline. I felt it ruined Gabrielle’s character a bit, and was so poorly planned, but had it happen to Susan and Mike i could’ve believed it more.

IF YOU HATE JUANITA EXPLAIN WHY BECAUSE I GENUINELY DO NOT GET IT?!

Before watching the show the only clips i saw were hate on Juanita, but is it just me who really likes her character, and actually cannot understand people’s dislike for her.

Firstly, she is BY FAR the strongest child actor, not even just compared to the young kids, she’s even better than the teenagers like Julie, Danielle etc. Sometimes when watching shows the child actors kinda take me out of the story because of how weak their acting is (not their fault their kids) but Juanita was so well performed, dare i say she was outperforming Carlos and Gaby at points.

She’s probably my favourite child in all of wisteria lane. Yes she can be annoying sometimes, but she’s just a product of her environment, I see everyone say that Gaby should’ve given her back to the Sanchez family etc, but I feel like people miss the fact that Juanita is a brat because GABY is a brat. Also, every single character, child and adult, (aside from Bree) was at some point annoying, yet Juanita gets so much hate for it.

She’s also one of the only children, especially young children, who is actually a 3 dimensional character. For example, MJ or the Scavo boys (pre time jump): the only times we get any of them, we see Susan or Lynette’s feelings about whatever storyline they are involved in, and we don’t really get to know the kids on a deeper level, they are just kinda there as supporting characters for the housewives storylines. Whilst Juanita, we actually get to know her feelings and personality better than any of the other kids and I feel like her insecurities and traumas are presented in a deeper level.
Once again I think this comes back to the fact she was a much stronger actress and could actually convey scenes like that, but just thought it was an interesting point.

Also throughout the entire Grace storyline, I felt so bad for her. Imagine finding out the only mother you’ve ever known is not your mother, and even worse she’s starting to prefer her real daughter who she just met over you. That is so traumatic and I genuinely feel so bad. Yet the fans always say “oh Gaby should just return Juanita and take Grace back” as if that’s not so traumatic for a child to experience + if Grace was raised by Gaby she would be the exact same.

I’ve kinda concluded that a lot of the Juanita hate stems from a deeper rooted aspect in the fandom of the overhyping of Gabrielle. Do not get me wrong I love Gabrielle, but since fans love her and find her the most iconic and pretty, they hold her to a higher standard than the rest of the characters, and the fact that there’s a character that constantly humbles her makes fans dislike her.
I guarantee if Juanita was Susan’s child and being bratty and annoying to Susan, she would be much more well liked and people would say Susan deserves it and this is her karma.

This post is kinda messy and confusing to read, but I just wanna know other peoples opinions and thoughts on this character. I’m also aware a lot of hate for her might be because of people’s deep rooted hatred for plus size individuals (which is just disgusting).