u/RandomInaRandomWorld

Not trying to be remotely controversial here, and for context I don't work so my dogs aren't left alone.. and that has been true for some 20yrs. Also not implying this is a bad thing.

But reading posts where people are like, "omg, I have to leave my grown dog alone for 2hrs, what do I do?" and the replies are like "you totally need a dog walker" (hyperbole) when I remember our dogs were alone from the time the schoolbus arrived until my sister and I got home from school. My parents were divorced, my mom worked odd hours, and the dogs were home alone quite often and did fine.

I used to take my dogs on all sorts of 'adventures' as a kid (things you could do with your bike) but it wasn't like they were constantly entertained. And that sort of thing was a sign I was a super lonely kid with no friends.. not that our dogs needed it exactly.

Not sure I have much of a question here.. more of a musing. When did we start to think dogs had to be entertained 23/24hrs of every day? I have BCs now.. it is sort of like that.. but with our old farm mixed breeds, collies, whatever.. nope. Dog was expected to manage a good 8hrs alone. I kenneled exactly one pup (not housebroken). My dad had a gf who kenneled her GSD (high-energy) while she worked full time.. but generally dogs were just expected to manage.

Then again, we let our dogs wander.. which I wouldn't call in the best interest of the dogs. So maybe everything is improving.

Pretty much the title.. our first foray into lick mats. I've got peanut butter covered, but curious what other things you use?

(and apologies on the flair.. not really sure where this fit)

I've always believed 'socialization' was an ongoing process. Yes, there are certain windows that hold (pups with moms, pre-16wks) but it doesn't end there, and skills get rusty. There are also situations you do not want to put your young dog into because he simply isn't going to get anything positive from it (a dog growling at him constantly from very nearby might be something you practice with your own adult.. but not something I'd expect a pup to handle or remotely understand)

Has that belief changed in any meaningful way?

I'm still trying to understand this platform. My feed is full of puppy posts.. not surprising, since it is where we are and I make a lot of replies there. Pups are rough, and just having someone tell you, "yep that'll work.. but you've got months yet" can be helpful.

But I'm struggling with things like this: when our current pup growled at me at 3mos over my bed, I took her collar, got her off the bed, and didn't let her back in the bedroom for a few hours. She tried one other time (same age range) and.. did the same thing again. 4mos later, not an issue. I absolutely used force, I absolutely did not give her a treat or praise for opting off the bed.. because it's my bed and no way was she doing that. She was A-Ok with it.. just a pup trying out a behavior.

I want to reply to certain posts because I want everyone to be successful. I, personally, don't think you have to use a lot of 'aversives' with small pups beyond setting some good boundaries and holding them to it. Unfortunately, though I'm aware that may fall into a category that - if truly questioned - I'd have to avoid answering because some dogs need to know both right and wrong in order to color between those lines. All dogs? No, I'm sure not. But a lot of them. Praising the very best good behavior does not mean a dog understands what would be considered 'bad.'

Anyway I'm not really sure what I'm asking. I guess it seems like a lot of people are asking for help on issues I'm happy to weigh in on and with advice that fits the 'FF' forum.. but I know if they were to ask me, I'd have to bow out of any REAL advice. I feel a bit like an imposter sometimes.

I recently got a warning for posting about the Monks of New Skete, even though someone (and I mentioned this) might not want to follow their training advice. The monks ADORE their dogs, and nothing they suggest is going to scar a dog for life.. idk. Just came across as really odd to me.

Happy for balanced pup forum suggestions before I get myself in some sort of reddit trouble.

Ahh adolescence.

I'd hoped. I'd prayed. I'd planned (via teaching her obedience early)

And in comes this dog. This dog. The Jeckle and Hyde of dogs. Long blocks where she is OMG so smart, sweet, cuddly, only bites toys, listens.

And then an airplane flies by or the wind changes or she realizes it's a day ending in 'y' and the bets are off, the over-excited nipping starts, the blank stare, "yeah, I don't think I will' over commands happens. Recall has been moved to long-line only as not reliable enough (some days it's fine.. too often it isn't). Attention barking is at a high. She's bored even though she's too tired to actually do anything.

It's two dogs. I'm telling ya. Two.

God bless the sorts of people who raise two pups simultaneously.. because I'm only 3wks in here and this is exhausting.

Ok I posted earlier (then deleted) that my pup ran off today. That was, in short, horrific. 1 acre through the willy wacks just to catch up with a dog who'd opted for a stroll over an exciting game of fetch.

Tonight I swept the floor and she did the 'out' command for me. Holy sh!t, that's the first time I've swept the floor without her attacking the broom in 4mos!

I'm honestly in tears right now.. not our best day with the pup, and it felt like a mess. But that one thing.. sweeping the floor.. I''ll take in exchange.

I win.

6.5mo border collie. Adolescence started 2weeks ago or so (that's when suddenly commands became optional..)

I accept that recalls are on her 'sometimes on/sometimes off' list. Since she's really good about keeping to following distance (about 20ft), I'm happy to do long-line recalls off and on at need, knowing even if she blows it she's not really going anywhere. USUALLY though you can sort of tell: if you are actively engaging with her, she's very focused. She can block out distractions like a pro. If she is just hanging out, sniffing or whatever tho.. she'll have total teen-brain and very casually ignore commands. I get it, so I long-line her when we are thru with the run-heavy game and I keep it chill.. switch to whistles and 'this way' commands which are much more optional in case she ignores it. The *few* times she's wandered off property, it's about 10ft into the woods, she generally goes pee, comes right back, no harm done. And then today.

Today. Active, MID-FETCH.. she was about to pick up a toy then changed her mind, gazed into a patch of woods we never go into because it belongs to my neighbor, and then super casually went for an adventure. Walking, mind you. She wasn't running off.. just going for a stroll. Several times, she looked back at me (40ft or so back), and then went back to her stroll. That's untamed wilderness.. so it's fallen trees, brambles.. you name it you are tripping over it or ducking under it.. much easier for a little dog to navigate than a grown woman. Finally caught up with her at the edge of the neighbor's property (an acre or so thru the trees). She came up to me, tail wagging, all normal, "hey mom, glad you could join me." .. wow I was peeved though. Petted her anyway since she did what she was supposed to do at that moment (i.e. come to me, even if it was only 5ft distance), couldn't bring myself to tell her she was a good girl for stopping because I was so mad so I just didn't say anything, clipped on the leash, brought her home.

And just a personal whine here, since it is unfair of me to expect this: we have walked the boundaries every day since she was about 3mos old. EVERY DAY. That includes back in April when there was snow on the ground and it was an absolutely unpleasant experience. That includes when it was raining. They are not a mystery, and they are not unclear. I have been using the same technique for 25yrs, and even my chronic 'lets go visit the neighbors' dog didn't go out of the yard. I also don't let my dogs outside unattended.. so minus a handful of times over the years it hasn't been an issue. This pup has had the benefit of MORE boundary training than the others.. at this point I feel like (and I know this is unfair.. ) they should be so ingrained that no amount of teen-brain would make her give it a go. She wasn't even following a scent trail or an animal, for goodness sakes'.. just having a bit of a walk.

Long line tomorrow and for the future until this is over.. which is going to make fetch a lot less fun for both of us. My dreams of taking her into the back 40 at my dad's for a nice long off-leash romp in deer/racoon/who knows wilderness? On hold. I wish I could explain that to her so she could make a better choice next time., rather than acknowledging lectures don't really do much for dogs. *sigh*

Alright that was long. I'm done my whining LOL. Hope things are going a bit more swimmingly with other pups.

First.. let me just explain the title there since that's my name for it.. it's the tendency to decide someone is part of the in-group and act like they are family.. and that other people are not and therefore do not exist. I'm sure there is an official name for it. Anyway, my question:

This is our second BC. I remember this behavior with our first, although it was partly taught (I took him in public a lot). When he was just hanging out, you could never really determine who would fit into which category.. complete strangers could be besties, someone he'd known for years could be on the ignore list.

Our current pup is only 6.5mo. Adolescence is raring, so I expect to see all sorts of funky behavior with her. But today someone came to visit that she has met before, and liked. But I could only get her to interact with him by doing the equiv of the 'touch' command, pointing to him.. she would touch him then come for a treat. Otherwise, she acted like he wasn't there (to the point of running her thru her trick repertoire and he didn't even qualify to her as a distraction LOL).

Just wondering what age this generally sets in? I'd honestly thought it was a bit more of a mature behavior.

Just curious, I guess.

I'd always thought pup teething was 3/4 months, and once it was over that was most of it. That was the prevailing wisdom, and I completely expected exactly what I got at that point for our current girl. By* 4mos, she was back to just doing the normal 'dogs chew.. and sometimes pups try out odd stuff' behavior that I completely expected.

But 6mos she is going a bit crazy. We lost a small kitchen-sink carpet yesterday because I thought she was chewing on her toys and didn't check as often as I would have when she was a bit younger. Nope.. thankfully it was inexpensive and easy to replace.

Something like Wisdom teeth coming in?

Maybe she's just being an obnoxious teenager LOL, and I did bump up training and exercise to accommodate an older pup who needs less sleep,, but it honestly seems to be something more to it so I thought I'd see if there was better info than what I'd always believed. Today, after I tired her out, she was chewing a stick.. and I noticed she was specifically chewing it with her back teeth.

*edit

So my pup (6mo bc) is nervous of cars. But this morning, after a power outage and calmly dealing with a beeping truck directly across the street completely fine I thought.. what the hell.

First, we did a walk on the same stretch of road that had gone so badly last week. Today, there were no cars, so that went well (just leash-manner issues, but nothing fear-related)

This afternoon, instead of doing the super gradual process to the road I had been planning, I let her determine where her stopping point was (10ft closer than I'd been practicing) and THAT was where I sat. 6ft lead, but a part of the lawn she isn't normally allowed on. She sniffed around, noted the cars, got the treats. Then a scary truck went thru and she pulled backwards.

SO I put her in a sit stay next to me. And you know? That worked, too. She held it, noticed the cars only in 'oh, a car. A treat will come.' And that was it. No freaking, no trying to run off. No, she didn't have freedom.. she had a job. And that held even if the vehicle was larger or louder.

breed trait, maybe? Seemed like a window into her soul.. and oddly, is exactly how I help dogs get through fear of storms "here's a job, do your job. Just your job."

Maybe it was a one-off. We'll see. I'm trying to treat this pup with kid gloves (her personality reminds me of a ton of dogs I know who have ended up in shelters because they have been terrified into hiding under beds). But maybe 'job' transcends that?

Anyway.. just wanted to share. Every dog is such an individual to work with!

~Just an edit: our current pup is not a rescue dog. However, I spent a lot of time rescuing terrified dogs in my young adult days, and there are certain (very submissive) characteristics that I am familiar with that she has had since day 1. It is my goal to train my dog without ever pushing her into feeling like she has to be scared of us like that. No dog deserves that.. and certainly not one I've owned as a pup.

Honestly not understanding the flood of people with small pups (like 3mos old) that are already looking for personal trainers.

I understand pups are a rough go (ours is 6mos), but it seems like people are setting that up like you might set up daycare for babies.

And often it's like, "oh, my pup is fine but we hired a personal trainer because she was doing this really ordinary puppy behavior."

I honestly cannot imagine hiring a trainer before 9mos or so.. preferably after your dog reaches adulthood and you know what behaviors are set and you might want to change.

Am I just behind the times here? I'm not pooping on trainers, and I think nipping behaviors in the bud early IS the way to go, just seems weird for people to be employing them before they've seen anything concerning. Thoughts?

Our 6mo border collie pup is the very sweet, very submissive type. I could tell from the outside, too, that her confidence is quite a bit less than the last few dogs I've owned (but not something I haven't seen before.. just been ages and ages)

Anyway, she is very scared of cars. Our one attempt at a 'walk' did not go well (in her defense, there is no sidewalk.. just a shoulder and a ditch) and we turned around after about 15ft. So I'm currently working with her to acclimate to cars before we try again.

First training session, 20ft from road, we just sat and watched them. She was on-leash. She was still nervous at the end of the session, but was holding a sit next to me and taking treats.

Today we switch to the opposite side of the driveway. Everything else was identical: on leash, she could sit or not as she felt comfortable, treats for looking at me after cars. HOWEVER, a car went by with a trailer attached and she completely lost it... basically pulling backwards and would not settle down. I waited for one more ordinary car, praised for not reacting to that (she was still pretty terrified though) and walked her calmly back to the house.. her pulling the whole way, even when we got to the part of the yard that she hangs out in with no issue whatsoever.

And just for context: both times included off-leash play for about 20min before we tried the exercise, so she was slightly tired but still in a mood that was good for listening.

Just want to make sure we are still on the right track here and I am not accidentally pushing her over threshold. Would you back up 10ft or so.. or just keep doing the same exercises until she realizes the car trailer isn't going to veer off and get her?

I was, and continue to be, super proud of my pup. For instance, yesterday we got a delivery.. she barked the EXACT amount I wanted her to, and, when I had gotten the package, immediately stopped barking and accompanied me inside. It's the behavior I need her to have because my husband is gone a lot: I don't want her to be fierce, just sound like it.

But honestly I picked her out in a way I would never, ever suggest anyone do (solo picture), and man that has made me second guess myself.

Even tho, frankly, she's just an absolutely brilliant little dog. For a 6mo pup, and despite having her moments, she's a pup I'm proud to be raising and I can see the progress on the daily.

The self-doubts suck though. Today, finally, I told my husband. I said I didn't know if maybe we shouldn't have waited for the *more perfect match* whatever that means. To which he replies, "You saw her picture and knew she was your dog."

I did. That's true. It was, and is. However she turns out, she is supposed to be here. I'm not quite sure why yet, but I feel it in my soul. No matter how tough she's being (and she has her moments) I've never felt like, "oh this is the wrong dog for us." If anything, I've been pretty amazed how much easier she's been than could be expected, she slid right in like she's always been here.. but that adds, maybe to my confusion: I thought I was signing up for something different and changing gears is rough.

Anyway, I guess I'd just love to hear from people who brought home the *perfect* pup, she lived up to it, and still were struggling to not feel like you might have made some weird mistake.

I'm not unaware this is partly because we lost our 13yo last august. And before him, another 13yo. Both male dogs, both had a certain confident personality type. Current pup is a female and a lot more submissive... and counter to what I'm used to. How did you move past it?

Honestly, I'm not sure I feel like I deserve her. Does that make any sense?