u/Saberian_Dream87

I do think one day the sequels will get reevaluated. Not because I actually like the sequels, or I think they deserve it. No, it's because it seems Filoni really wants to make a new trilogy set after the events of Rise of Skywalker. And imo, Rian Johnson and J.J. Abrams, for all of their flaws, are FAR more talented filmmakers than Filoni will ever be. They at least have credits outside Star Wars. Filoni does not. He's a glorified storyboard artist who peaked with animation, but didn't expand well outside that. And he's a self-indulgent fanboy, which is always a huge issue. I just think he's a hack, and with him presiding over the new sequel trilogy, then frankly, people are going to see why EU fans have never liked him. General audiences won't either. You will get people in the next few years lamenting over how 7, 8, and 9 were so much better. Because Filoni really is THAT bad. He's rock bottom.

So yes, I'm convinced, but not for the same reasons you are.

First up, this idea that TCW is more mainstream than the EU was, is just false. The numbers don't lie, they started out with three to four million viewers, and then dropped to one to two million. Even at its peak, that's not mainstream in the same way that Star Trek: The Next Generation was, which always evened out around ten million viewers. It is more comparable to the Stargate shows, which are popular in science-fiction circles, standing at two to three million viewers per episode, but not well known outside of them. If you're going to say the EU doesn't compare to general audiences, then the same argument must be applied to TCW. It's only fair. Why else are normies having a hard time adapting to Filoni's influence being felt over Star Wars as he is put into higher and higher leadership roles? Finally, I'd argue the Thrawn Trilogy is more mainstream than TCW. Ten million people have read it. That's the most-read EU story out there, and it's certainly better numbers than Filoni's show got. Really, I wish people would stop putting so much emphasis on general audiences, especially since it seems Disney Star Wars has lost those people and will likely never get them back. They don't matter anymore, and never mattered except in terms of how much profit they make Disney.

As to the sexism claims, two points. First is that, that's ONE character among literally thousands. I named great female Jedi beforehand, I'll name even more. Tenel Ka. Yaddle. Daeshara'cor. Jaina Solo. Shae Koda. Olana. T'ra Saa. Shaak Ti. Depa Billaba. Stass Allie. Jocasta Nu. Tahl. Seriously, the list just keeps going. Many of them are fully fleshed out characters, but even for those who aren't, they contribute to the timeline with their presence as a fine aspect of sci-fi world-building. They're a part of this universe, but a lot of their efforts go unrecognized. Just like women laborers in our world. And it's not as if there aren't thousand of male characters in the universe that are just raw statistics and not characters. It's true equality. But it adds to the realism of being a big galaxy. And secondly, is that I'll actually defend a vicious Sith Lord flaunting her sexuality. Why not? Sith indulge in their material pleasures more than the Jedi do, and sexiness can be empowering. Also distracting for enemies. Why shouldn't a villain do this? It's a part of the EU, but it doesn't represent the majority of its female characters. None of the new girl Jedi I listed are in any way overly sexualized. You've long since banged on about how you don't like sexiness in women in some cases, yet you're okay with it in others as long as you don't think it's "objectifying" women. In truth, it's just more random than that, and it seems more so you are just snobbishly dismissing fans being fans, whether they are male or female, in lusting after fictional crushes, calling it "problematic" when that attitude is problematic for society. It's demonizing male sexuality, excluding lesbian sexuality, and further othering nerds who traditionally are lonely and on the awkward fringes of social situations, and so demand more sympathy instead of judgment and condemnation.

You insist Star Wars fans are never satisfied. Well, you perfectly embody that attitude. There was just so much great inclusion of female characters in the EU, and it's not enough for you, lol. You just dismiss it or call it problematic as the sex-negative feminists you are. Bah. It's no wonder Disney Star Wars is in shambles if you are the new customer base they want.

Though I have come around on one issue since your latest pathetic attempt at a counterargument. It is possible the sequels will get redeemed if Filoni actually succeeds in making a new trilogy under his supervision, since it seems he's leaning in that direction with recent leaks. Filoni has serious baggage the fandom ignored for too long, and now here we are, he calls the shots. And I think J.J. Abrams and Rian Johnson were more talented filmmakers than Filoni, who's always been a glorified storyboard artist, and has never gotten much traction outside animation. So if he presides over Episodes 10, 11, and 12, yeah, it's definitely very likely people look back fondly on the sequels. But again, that fits the criteria I listed, it's because something worse came along to take that place.

Time will tell, I guess.

We're almost to the 2030s, and the sequels have not had a magic reevaluation. And they are never going to get it. Kids are more interested in Marvel these days, not Star Wars.

Also gotta love the comment down below insisting we hate girl Jedi. Dude, there were dozens if not hundreds of girl Jedi in the EU, and no one had any issues with them in Star Wars until Disney came in, decided female fans and female characters and female writers were lacking, and it was THEIR job to "fix" that, fix what was never broken. That thought process is what broke Star Wars, not the fans or women. It's pure narcissism.

And ironically, if not for Disney Star Wars, we'd have got a woman from the next generation stepping up to inherit Luke's role as the main character, one the fans already loved. Instead, we got her discount replacement. When these corporate feminists got in, one of the first things they did was to purge the EU. Thanks to them, thousands of great female characters were struck from the canon. "We love female empowerment - that's why we're erasing female characters en masse!"

But go ahead, keep coping. Not that you'll ever admit you're wrong.

Assuming that people are saying they won't go see it, then go see it anyway is a very dangerous assumption and one that I think is wrong to repeat, especially after Mandalorian & Grogu failed to hit a billion dollars and get noticed, and Starfighter promises to be more of the same thing next year.

I was salty about what they did to the EU in 2014, and to date I haven't read or played or watched a single piece of Disney Star Wars content. I stick to the EU. If they released new EU as Legends, I'd check that out. So there you go. I disprove your claim. I said I wouldn't go see it, and I meant it even in 2015.

It's time you realized Lucasfilm does what they want and not what the fans want. Oh, and look at the guy down below claiming recasting Han Solo is what killed Solo. Naw, it couldn't be that it came directly off the heels of an extremely polarizing movie that devalued and hurt the Star Wars brand, naw. /s

"Mandalorian & Grogu was released in a busy month," you say? You ARE aware the original Star Wars was released in May as well, right? Also, recent films HAVE proven that's a bullshit argument, if the interest is there, people will go see it, as Spider-Man: Brand New Day and Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey prove. Avengers: Doomsday will likely continue that trend of hitting a billion. Whereas Mandalorian & Grogu did not. Starfighter likely won't either. That's the problem. THE INTEREST FOR DISNEY STAR WARS IS NOT THERE. This shouldn't be too hard of a concept to grasp. But you're so paranoid that to admit all this will validate the people you've deemed alt-right bigots, even though I keep trying to tell you all the time and I'm not right wing. SMH

Eventually someone down below's going to go all "But you see, The Mandalorian & Grogu didn't lose money!" even though it fell way below expectations, and it's a sign of continuing decline in fan interest.

They think there's going to be a special announcement of a new trilogy for 2029 at next year's Celebration, after the spectacular failure of Mandalorian & Grogu at the box office, and all estimates are that Starfighter likely won't do so well either. This is durasteel levels of cope.

They don't trust him because they think he's a sleeper agent from Lusankya, they even put him on trial, then Corran Horn shows up and he admits he came from Lusankya, but they believe he's not a sleeper agent. It really does feel like favoritism and that they were just being unreasonable when it came to Tycho. I agree with Wedge. It's a crime worthy of the Empire, and imo, a sign of the already nascent corruption within the New Republic.

Look at them just needlessly discontinuing our EU stories as Legends. The last new story was in 2019. Seven years ago. There's valid reasons to be upset by Disney Star Wars.

Not sure what your post title is in response to, but if you're trying to assert that they care about the lore, no they really don't. Look at how casually they stomped aside 40 years of lore and keep it in constant limbo instead of continuing it as Legends, DESPITE branching out into at this point TWO non-canonical ventures. It's spite.

In the literal sense, ignoring the Expanded Universe of novels, comic books, and video games they needlessly killed, just discontinued for no good or well-defined reason, there's also the fact that Disney Star Wars movies just aren't making the same kind of bank they used to.

I called it last year that Mandalorian & Grogu would make less than a billion, and I was proven right, but even I'm surprised by how poorly it did. No Disney Star Wars from this point on will EVER make a billion at the box office again, whereas Marvel is still pumping out the occasional winner, like how Brand New Day just made $2,000,000,000 at the box office. Because people still care about Marvel's stories. Deadpool & Wolverine made a billion. So it's not a post-COVID moviegoing landscape, it's about interest. And yet the next Star Wars movie in SEVEN YEARS (seven-tenth the lengths of time between Revenge of the Sith and The Force Awakens) just barely broke even, and it's treated as being largely forgettable.

If that's not the sign of a franchise killer, I don't know what is. And you keep denying this and insisting Disney Star Wars is doing very well. But you ignore the signs. The new wave of licensed books aren't doing as well as Legends reprints are, and when it comes time to put a new film in movie theaters, Disney turns to the original six films, and NOT anything they've made. Not even Rogue One, despite the massive hype around it. Why is that? Because Disney may be making money off Star Wars, but it's the PRE-Disney Star Wars that is thriving, not anything they've made. They all had short-term gains at the expense of long-term success.

I'll be proven right next year too. Calling it now. Starfighter will make $500,000,000. A moderate success, but for a fanboy-driven, A-lister franchise like STAR WARS, it's pitiful.

Not that you'll ever face reality, but it bears repeating. The sequels will not be suddenly beloved one day. It's already 2026. And yet you keep shifting the goalposts.

Cope harder.

Seriously, that's not even what the video is about! But knowing you guys, you doubtless think Mandalorian & Grogu was a huge success, even though it was beaten by several other movies at the box office, including Marvel. SMH

You just get so triggered at the idea "the chuds" could be right and Star Wars under Disney isn't doing as well as it could be. Except this isn't a chud opinion, it's just common sense.

Also gotta love how they insist merchandising is making so much for Lucasfilm. Yeah, merchandising for a universe they've discontinued. The pre-Disney Star Wars is thriving, whereas Disney Star Wars itself is not.

If it sells that well, why keep it in limbo? Oh right, because Lucasfilm is packed by strutting assholes.

Because there's few fans left when it comes to Disney Star Wars, lol. Ahsoka Season 1 was one of the least viewed properties ON Disney+, and I'm sure Season 2 won't do any better, in fact, given how long it's taken to make it, it'll probably do worse.

Also, did they really mention the Rian Johnson Trilogy at D23? If you think that's still happening, then forget cope, you're just in pure denial.

TCW is a dumb kids show, and it shouldn't have taken priority over the superior EU material it displaced, and it sure as hell should not be canon. It's just an off-brand version of the EU, but that describes pretty much most of Disney Star Wars.

"But George Lucas worked on it!" you may scream. So what? He hasn't called the shots since 2012, and he was making increasingly poorer choices as his tenure in the company ran on, so I don't particularly care about doubling down on those mistakes. It's not as if he's involved, and Disney doesn't care about what he wants. Nor should we.

Yeah, because TCW stretches onward for SEVEN SEASONS, it really does rigidly lock in where the Disney era was allowed to go once the EU was dropped, and cheapened the idea of a total clean slate start. And as we've constantly seen over the last fourteen years, Lucasfilm, led by Filoni, has no issues continually chasing that demographic at the expense of all others. It's really pathetic.

You just don't want to admit "the chuds" are right, that's why you get so triggered at the idea that Disney Star Wars isn't doing well. But you don't have to be "a chud" to think that.

I also love how you call people in here "grifters" and "fake fans." First up, I think you've used that word "grifter" so often, you're now using it in places where it doesn't even make sense anymore. Using it for YouTubers makes sense because it's about generating clicks. But here? How does that make sense when we're posting FOR FREE and aren't making any money off this?

Also, I'm not a fake fan, I'll die on the hill defending the EU, and it is Krayt's attitude toward the EU and the EU's fans that has made me hate them so much. They say we're too small to matter, but by their logic, since Disney Star Wars has lost the mainstream, The Mandalorian's fans are too small to matter because that movie didn't even make a billion, lol. No fan is too small to matter, and there should be room for all, but Lucasfilm doesn't see it that way, it's their way or the highway.

https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthankrayt/comments/1vqczvp/can_we_stop_asking_to_retcon_the_sequels/

Because they care about Star Wars, unlike you guys (all YOU care about is politics), and the sequels DID do massive damage to the long-term success of the brand. That should be an indisputable fact at this point. Look at declining fan interest and the increasingly worse performance at the box office and on Disney+. Yet you just keep coping while the flames surround you and you sip tea muttering, "This is fine."

I've never seen people as disconnected with reality as you guys when you claim Disney Star Wars is "more popular than ever." That was predicated on them spamming nonstop content, confusing quantity for quality, unlike in the old George Lucas days. Well, that argument no longer holds weight, does it? Aside from Ahsoka Season 2, the only other project in the works is Starfighter. Yes, fans are so apathetic and disinterested, that Disney has realized they can't keep pushing nonstop mediocre content.

Fans want a retcon and a clean slate because the sequels failed to bring in younger fans the way that even the prequels did, and they're scared without it, in the next generation or so, Star Wars will be forgotten. And who can blame them? They've already lost the cultural zeitgeist, and it's alllllll downhill from here. Not to mention what the sequels replaced, and that's still worth criticizing even a decade later. I wish you'd understand this, but if you did, I wouldn't have to keep posting about you, would I?

I know Leslye Headland wanted to do something with Kreia, but frankly, HER STORY CAN'T FIT INTO THIS ERA. It's set only a couple of hundred years before the movies. KOTOR 2 is set thousands of years before the movies! It's also Legends, whereas the High Republic is canon.

I mean, Jesus, EVEN YOUR OWN SUB IS CALLING YOU OUT. That's a new low, man.

What? I'm having a hard time seeing it. Someone posts a movie about the EU, and... you get mad? So you're just dropping all pretense that you stan Lucasfilm and bully EU fans? Is that what you're on about?

And btw, I agree with him, I don't want female Space Marines in the lore, and it isn't because I "hate women" or that I'm right wing or whatever crap you'll invent to try and discredit me, it is because in this world where boys HAVE been left behind, I think there should be at least some things that are left only for them, the same way girls have their own female-only spaces.

Why is it giving girls their own exclusive zones is okay, but that's wrong for boys? Besides, as others in your own sub have pointed out before, it would mean less attention for the Sisters of Silence and the Sisters of Battle, so if you want more female-centric roles, then just focus on them for future 40K stories. That'd be pretty cool. At this point, I see no reason to alter tradition unless you come up with a damn good reason for it.