u/Sadhuman0

The guidebook state that the gate of the Underworld separate the living world and the Underworld heres the raw and the translation made with google translation : "The Boundary Between the Living World and the Underworld Something akin to a magical barrier separating the underworld from the world of the living. This gate acts as an obstacle, preventing demons from entering the living world." It was talking about the first gate, after that the text said that because liebe had no magic he crossed it.

The shadow palace is said to be the magical space separating the living world and the afterlife (its been a long time since i read this arc but iirc afterlife isnt the Underworld).

Neutral space in DB does the same thing, it seperate different time-space and prevent them to touch each other on vsbattle wiki it was scale at 5d because of it, same should apply for the gate of the Underworld separating living world and the Underworld, and same should apply for the shadow palace separating the afterlife and living world. So they would have 4 axis of space and 1 axis of time because they are worlds.

However having a higher dimensionsal space axis doesnt automatically grant another higher dimensionsal time axis that why most hyperspace in fiction doesnt have +1 time axis just because they 4 space axis. So the Underworld and shadow palace wouldnt be 6d because but 5d. I seen that someone scaled neutral space at 6d because dragon ball super had hypertimeline.

Here's the vs battle wiki post : https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-low-1-c-neutral-space.187653/

About this post : https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackCloverScaling/s/Seqj01w1rb

First the fact that they needed yami and vengence to creat. When dante talked to yami he said that both yami and vengence are needed to creat a tree of qliphoth meaning that at that time the old tree of qliphoth wasng present anymore, if the tree still existed dante would have rather said that they would expand it, not creat it. The thing which reinforced even more the fact that it wasnt present anymore is when lucifero said in chapter 314 that even when the tree of qliphoth is absent he can control low level devils and when he say it theres a flashback in the background showing the moment where he took control of liebe, meaning that at that time the tree was absent.

But the main issue is about the Qliphoth being a higher dimensionsal thing because it allow you to travel between space time of Underworld which are separated. In fact the devils can only travel between the layers only if the gates are opened, an higher dimensional thing isnt needed at all. If you open the gates you can easily travel between the layers and exit the Underworld, and we learn thanks to morris that as long he had yami and vengence the gates will open, and as we seen once the gates open the devils travels, when it open the layers are not separated anymore and you can travel easily. A 5d or 6d thing isnt needed. Gates open = layers not separated anymore by it so easy travel.

Thanks to the ritual they were able to open only 2 gates of the Underworld, the 5 other where closed and yet lucius still was able to travel in the layers without yami and vengence who were said to be the ones needed to opens those gates, when those gates werent open the devils couldnt come in the living world. However we learn with liebe that if you dont have magic you can cross a gate without having to open it, he didnt knew it at first and didnt think that he would have cross the gate.

Currently its still wasnt said how lucius was able to take control every devils in the Underworld it might be thanks to lucifero power that he took, lucifero can somehow take control of low ranking devils even when they arent currently in his laye so thanks to his power he most likely took control of a lot of low ranking devils but it doesnt explain everything.

However each layers being a space-time is also logical way to think, the gates look like the shadow palace gates which separated space times.

Members of oracion sechs were able to damage the back of aldron's body without Dragon slaying magic, daemon even melted aldron : https://www.reddit.com/r/fairytailscaling/s/arcMONTZQ9

Juvia and Gray combo managed to damage anchor human form too, and Silver was able to freeze atlas flame.

DS magic only make your attacks more effective against dragon, that's why they have an advantage against them.

Natsu, wendy and gajeel magic were special enough to not get nullify by dorma anim armor, dorma anim armor is a wizard canceler which nullify magic.

In Fairy Tail: 100 Years Quest, it is stated that Ethernano is magic, and Bloodman's particles destroy it. He even told Gajeel and Levy that these anti-magic particles steal magic. Bloodman's anti magic particles is also a deadly poison who can also work on people without magic.

It was recently said in black clover databooks that dryad is a high-dimensional being.

In another text it is said that some entites (leviathan, dryad and the 5 headed dragon) rival the existance of the 4 great spirit, if dryad is higher dimensionsal then those spirits too, it would at minimum make them 4d beings.

It was said in another databook text that Lucius used a power from an extra dimension, meaning that BC is at least 5d.

(im not the one who made all these translations).

According to morris under lucius someone can surpass natural laws (another translation say reason idk which one is correct i dont have the raw). In jojo the law of calamity is a natural law and also the flow of reason.

Does it make every paladin and lucuis himself able to beat wonder of u ?

It was said by gloxina that fate and history so even the past cant be changed drasticlly, however Cath and the others literally drastically changed it but history doesnt seem to force the world back to its original state.

Ban after escaping Purgatory (still immortal, before he gave his immortality to Elaine) vs Prime Asta.

Do you think Ban would win against Asta thanks to his immortality and stats or Asta would win ?

Ban after escaping Purgatory (still immortal, before he gave his immortality to Elaine) vs Prime Asta.

Do you think Ban would win against Asta thanks to his immortality and stats or Asta would win ?

Bloodman has every curse and devil slayer magic of tartaros guild, they both use anti-magic but bloodman anti-magic seem different, he passively emit it, its a deadly and fast poison that also affect people without magic and has traces of iron in it.

Do you think asta would be immune to these anti-magic particle and be able to damage bloodman with his anti-magic or the poison will affect him and quickly neutralize him.

Bloodman has every curse and devil slayer magic of tartaros guild, they both use anti-magic but bloodman anti-magic seem different, he passively emit it, its a deadly and fast poison that also affect people without magic and has traces of iron in it.

Do you think asta would be immune to these anti-magic particle and be able to damage bloodman with his anti-magic or the poison will affect him and quickly neutralize him.

Wraith is a dead spirit that only dragon slayer can see and hear, without a special type of magic you cant damage his body, even natsu fire magic that already affected spirits couldnt with him.

From what we seen he can possess people's bodies by entering inside of them, eat someone's soul and also even remove it, and also control a bunch of souls.

How is asta supposed to beat him ?

Wraith is a dead spirit that only dragon slayer can see and hear, without a special type of magic you cant damage his body, even natsu fire magic that already affected spirits couldnt with him.

From what we seen he can possess people's bodies by entering inside of them, eat someone's soul and also even remove it, and also control a bunch of souls.

How is asta supposed to beat him ?

With her alchemy luso can transmute the world around her, she can fight at long distance by creating multiple things to fight for her and also creat explosive ballons. Her alchemy can also turn people into animals and prevent them from using magic. Alchemy is different from magic and never go down. She can also directly transmutes things like she did with erza's armor and changed it into something else. Since now we havent any drawback of using alchemy.

Who do you think would win ?

With her alchemy luso can transmute the world around her, she can fight at long distance by creating multiple things to fight for her and also creat explosive ballons. Her alchemy can also turn people into animals and prevent them from using magic. Alchemy is different from magic and never go down. She can also directly transmutes things like she did with erza's armor and changed it into something else. Since now we havent any drawback of using alchemy.

Who do you think would win ?

Who do you think he can beat ?

Quick reminder that in fairy tail curses are different from magic, its not a type of magic like in black clover.

Erasing the magic of the whole continents wouldnt have affected the curses that the guild use and curses and magic were said to be different too, so asta anti magic shouldnt be as useful against the tartaros guild since curses isnt magic here.

Who do you think he can beat ?

Quick reminder that in fairy tail curses are different from magic, its not a type of magic like in black clover.

Erasing the magic of the whole continents wouldnt have affected the curses that the guild use and curses and magic were said to be different too, so asta anti magic shouldnt be as useful against the tartaros guild since curses isnt magic here.

Its not lucy's own power, Lucy literaly have this much power thanks to selene who decided to help her by going inside her. (i dont mention mercphobia since most people here see it as fair due to the fact that lucy has his key even tho nothing prove that mercphobia would say yes to fight every battle for her).

This form is lucy's power + selene help.

If juvia has a 1v1 fight and call gray to help her in that fight and gray win the fight, then the winning would be for gray not juvia, same should apply when lucy summon mercphobia for helping in a fight.

If lucy had a real control over merc like a manipulation ability or some type of contract that force mercphobia to help her then it would be another case but in this case its just mercphobia who wanted to help and told her that she can call him, he could say no to her if he doesnt want to fight a specific ennemy, just to give an example he has nothing against the fairy tail guild if lucy fight one of them he has no reason to say yes and fight to help her especially that some of them help to save ermina city.