u/Seekers_Redux

I'm sorry if this is completely played out or not allowed here. I will gladly delete this if prompted to, but I feel like with the continued Ralsei gender discourse here and on other subreddits, I think it might be a good idea to compile all of the main pieces of evidence I have seen people use from chapter 5 for Trans Ralsei, as well as the reasons for each why I think they are not pointing towards Ralsei being Trans.

Overall, I believe this chapter’s main themes are of Love and Agency/Self-Worth. When looking at the theme of Agency, this specifically is the focus for Ralsei through the actions of Flowery. For all of his life, Flowery was a plant with no agency, completely dependent on his caretaker. While he did have an amazing caretaker in the form of Asgore; living much longer than what was ever thought possible, as soon as the Dark Fountain is opened in the flower store and Flowery gets agency for the first time in his life, he instantly understands how much of a gift free-will and self-worth is. When he sees Ralsei, someone who has had agency for quite some time, and does not use it, opting instead to be a servant for the lightners only, Flowery takes it upon himself to try and help Ralsei out (While still doing his best to make the perfect world for Asgore). Every time he messes with Ralsei, jokingly insults him, or confronts the fun gang, I believe Flowery is doing something to help Ralsei understand that he matters and should have wants, hopes, and dreams (along with all other Darkners), even if it means rage-baiting the goat prince. While this all could include Ralsei’s gender identity, I believe it is more of a statement of what it means to be “human/alive/conscious” in the first place, and its themes of agency and self-worth are something most of us can probably relate to.

1. The climbing mini-game

Main Evidence: Ralsei shows great joy/euphoria being in the pink dress and being a princess for Kris.

Consistently throughout the game Ralsei finds joy in wearing all manners of cute clothes, wearing both traditionally masculine and feminine clothes in battles. I believe this case is no different, Ralsei simply wanted to try on another cute outfit. And as for being a princess, I don’t think it’s an indicator of their gender identity changing. Anyone can be a prince or princess, whether you are a boy or a girl or something altogether different. We are not bound by the traditional roles these titles were defined as, or Susie might very well be questioning her gender identity as well, considering on 2 occasions she has expressed interest in being a King (King of the Trash Pile in chapter 2 and Festival King in this chapter). Ralsei himself literally says “I suppose the only difference (between a prince and a princess) is how you present yourself…” referring to the clothes you wear and how you are acting at that time. Ralsei adds on a caveat at the end of this sentence; however, stating “as long as it’s what other people want, of course!”. This in my opinion plays into the central theme of Ralsei’s development in this chapter, their agency. The ability to make choices that he wants to make because he wants to make them. Unfortunately for now, Ralsei still feels he must get validation from others; especially the lightners, before making a decision.

Besides, while Ralsei seems shocked and a little disappointed if you tell him, “Nah bro” (Something I would never do), he ultimately seems more upset at the fact that he thought it would be “fun to try new things”. Also, it’s a bit strange that Toby would decide to completely cut out this scene if you have recruited starwalker (Or supposedly be transphobic if you select the “Nah bro” option). Why would Toby risk removing a piece of evidence that Ralsei is questioning their gender identity behind a joke gag?

2. Ralsei coming out of the closet

Main Evidence: Ralsei coming out of the closet parallels him coming out of the closet surrounding his gender identity.

I will admit, I’m going to be a bit of a stickler about my rebuttal for this point. For all of the blue “closets” (besides the one that has Ralsei forced inside of it), the menu flavor text reads “It’s a wardrobe of unnecessary things”. If Toby intended for this to be a “coming out of the closet” allegory, why would they specifically be referred to as wardrobes? Additionally, right after being freed, Susie notes on Ralsei “being such a hater”, commenting on how she has seemingly not really seen Ralsei dislike and insult someone like he does in this scene in the past. In my opinion, this is the start of Flowery’s “lessons” for Ralsei, in which Ralsei begins to let out some of his thoughts and opinions, even if they aren’t his typical gentle ones. This only continues throughout the rest of chapter 5 with all of the back and forth between Flowery and Ralsei.

3. Ralsei throwing away their butler outfit

Main Evidence: Ralsei is casting off one of his more "masculine" outfits.

I don’t see this point brought up that much but I figured I’d bring it up because I still think it includes important context. Upon returning to the dark world after getting kicked out by Asgore, Kris and Susie run into Ralsei, who has just finished putting a few Floradinn’s to sleep. His is wearing his butler outfit from chapter 2, but quickly discards the outfit, choosing to toss it into the nearby water. When questioned why by Susie, Ralsei responds “I’m finding, it’s rather context based.” What Ralsei is effectively saying here is that while under some contexts they may love being a butler; as he did in chapter 2, under other circumstances it’s something he despises. Namely, when forced to by someone he doesn’t like, in this case Flowery. Someone that has been shown time and time again up until this point to mess with Ralsei. This makes me believe that this scene has nothing to do with Ralsei’s gender identity. I do believe; however, that this scene shows another important step in Ralsei’s agency in this chapter. Choosing to take off and throw away the butler uniform on his own accord when he doesn’t want to wear it, is good growth for Ralsei’s ideas of self-worth.

4. The color of the drink vouchers

Main Evidence: Ralsei is drawn to the blue and pink voucher as it is a reference to the real-world trans pride flag, signifying that Ralsei is Trans.

Besides the next piece of evidence coming up, this is perhaps one of the most widely used for the Pro Trans Ralsei camp. It is understandable; especially when coming at the narrative with a trans perspective, to believe the blue and pink voucher specifically refers to the trans pride flag in real life. But this perspective does not consider the colors of the other 2 vouchers that Flowery gives to Ralsei, especially as the other 2 do not correspond to different pride flags. In addition, while not a strong rebuttal, it is also important to note that the drink voucher does not include white, one of the main colors in the trans pride flag. In total Flowery gives Ralsei a Purple, a Yellow-and-Green, and a Blue-and-Pink drink voucher. It’s important to pay attention to the scene here, as before Flowery even hands off the vouchers to Ralsei, he is already considering which drink vouchers; and by-proxy, which drinks, his friends would prefer. This is consistent with Ralsei’s past actions of putting the wishes of the lightners over his own, as Ralsei is once again content to put his own wishes last, seemingly prepared to take whatever drink voucher would be left. First, Ralsei considers what drink voucher Susie would like best, later confirmed to be the purple drink voucher. He is then about to do the same for Kris, before he is cut off by Flowery, where he tells a surprised Ralsei what drink it looked like he wanted the most (The blue-and-pink drink) and not to worry about Kris when picking his “fav”.

A big source of contention for this scene comes from trying to determine the reason why Ralsei seems to want the blue-and-pink drink the most in the first place. I believe the answer for this question lies in what each drink voucher color represents; which to me, seems to be the lightners of the fun gang (Susie and Kris). Susie is primarily purple in both her light world and dark world sprites, and as such receives the purple drink voucher. This of course leaves 2 drink vouchers for 1 remaining Kris, but unlike Susie, Kris’ sprite colors change dramatically between the light world and the dark world. In the light world they have yellow skin, and wear a yellow and green striped shirt, which relates to the Yellow-and-Green drink voucher. In the dark world, they have blue skin and hair, and sport a pink scarf/cape, which relates to the Blue-and-Pink drink voucher. Here-in lies the reason as to why Ralsei is so encapsulated with the Blue-and-Pink drink, as it matches and reminds Ralsei of Kris, of which Ralsei has made it clear they have a strong affection for. Remember, before Ralsei met Kris and Susie, they were completely alone in the dark, and while they no doubt have a great love and care for Susie, the feelings they have for Kris could definitely be seen as moving in a more intimate direction, especially after chapter 5’s sauna scene. I believe it is no stretch to say that Ralsei wanted the Blue-and-Pink drink the most, because it reminded him of a person that he holds very dearly to his heart. And the reason Ralsei does not hold that same association for the Yellow-and-Green voucher? Ralsei most likely does not associate those colors with Kris; and for all we know, Ralsei might not even know what colors make up Kris in the light world.  [Of course the yellow-and-green voucher could also relate to Flowery (Yellow skin and green vest) but if that is the case, that is an extra reason Ralsei would not particularly want that color drink voucher] And as to why Kris gets two drink voucher colors? Perhaps this could relate to the divide between Kris the person and us the player/soul, or perhaps it could relate to the divide between their life in the light world and their doings in creating dark worlds behind Ralsei’s and Susie’s backs.

Now I know a common rebuttal to this involves when Flowery tells Ralsei not to worry about Kris before he chooses a drink voucher. Simply put, this does not suddenly change the reason why Ralsei wants the Blue-and-Pink drink. Ralsei is still drawn to the Blue-and-Pink because it reminds him of Kris. Merely, it is Flowery trying to get Ralsei to make a decision where he puts himself first, not to put the lightners wishes over his own in servitude, even if it is for something as simple as getting a drink. In my opinion this once again ties into a lesson Flowery is trying to teach Ralsei, one of agency and self worth (in trying to get him to pick a drink he wants), something that Ralsei consistently lacks.

5. Flowery calling Ralsei princess

 

Main Evidence: Flowery calls Ralsei princess as he knows/can tell Ralsei is trans or questioning their gender identity. 

This scene follows right after Ralsei receives the drink vouchers and involves Flowery booping Ralsei on the nose and calling him princess shortly before leaving. Some perceive this to be Flowery “clocking” Ralsei as trans or questioning their gender identity, especially relating this to the climbing minigame in castle town. Unfortunately, I think Flowery is just using a term he has used in the past for the fun gang, while also trying to get one cheeky little troll on Ralsei before he leaves. First and foremost, I believe it is important to look at way Ralsei reacts to being called princess by Flowery. In the scene, his in-game sprite immediately changes, frowning and blushing harder. This is strange, considering that Ralsei was happy to be a princess for Kris during the climbing mini-game. Once again, we must look at what Ralsei has said previously in that “it’s rather context based”. Ralsei has no issues exploring being a princess for someone that he likes, just like he has no problem being a butler for people that he likes. But when it comes to Flowery; someone who up until this point has only been a nuisance to Ralsei, the last thing Ralsei wants is to be called that by him. Basically, I don’t think Ralsei is blushing harder and frowning because he secretly is questioning his gender identity or is afraid to be called out, but because he doesn’t like Flowery all that much still. Also, I feel that this is just a very normal reaction for just about anyone (especially someone as shy/reserved as Ralsei can be) when someone you don’t like boops you on the nose and calls you princess.  

Even looking beyond this; as I have mentioned earlier, the title of princess should not be seen as only a feminine or womanly title. In fact, Flowery calls all members of the fun gang princess, which includes Kris (A common telling on the pro-trans Ralsei side is that for some reason Flowery is explicitly only talking to Susie/Ralsei and not Kris. I feel that doesn’t make sense considering in that scene Flowery is facing Susie and Kris, and literally has Ralsei squished under his feet, Looney-Tunes style. He doesn’t even have Ralsei in his traditional flat out/splat sprite, Ralsei is quite literally squished and reduced to his hat). If the title can only be used to signify female gender identity, then that means Flowery was misgendering Kris. Of course I don’t think he really was, simply because princess, or prince for that matter, doesn’t have to be a gendered term, unless you wish to enforce the traditional gender roles that those titles are associated with. In addition, this chapter includes other potential mis-matched gendered terms, two of which also come from Flowery. During the exact same scene with Ralsei and Flowery, Flowery states “I know no matter what, you guys are gonna save the world”, misgendering Kris and Susie. Flowery also refers to the 6 flowers as “the/his boys”, misgendering Ory, Aqua, Seth and Green. In both cases, if the same mentality were to be applied here as it is for princess, then several characters would have been misgendered, as in both cases, Guys/Boys are traditionally masculine/male gendered terms. I of course believe that no affront or designation of gender identity was made in any of these scenarios; as at the end of the day, we all should understand that these phrases don’t have to be limited to one gender or the other.

And just to add on a little more to try and help prove my point, shortly before Flowery calls Ralsei princess, he explicitly uses a gendered he/him pronoun for Ralsei when he states “…says the impossibility himself” when responding to one of Ralsei’s questions. The addition of “himself” in that sentence is unnecessary when referring to the person you are talking to directly. It is also strange, that if apparently Flowery was going to “clock” Ralsei as trans less than a minute later, why would Flowery intentionally misgender someone who he apparently “knows” is trans instead of using a more gender-neutral phrase?

 6. They/them pronoun usage

Main Evidence: The menu and Asgore using they/them for Ralsei signifies a shift in his gender identity, away from he/him, towards he/they or they/them.

This last piece of evidence is probably one of the most contested, but I would just like to start by stating that they/them pronouns can be used for just about anyone, unless explicitly stated otherwise. The singular they/them has been a part of the English language since the times of Shakespeare and does not denote gender identity.

First up is the menu stating “Dark Vine watering their own thorns” for Ralsei. I personally believe the “their” is referring to the dark vine specifically; which is a generally genderless plant. The power titles for Ralsei in chapter 5 are different than the titles given to him for every other chapter. In chapters 1-4, every power title for Ralsei describes him directly, either as a type of Prince, or as is seen in chapter 4, a Dark Hero. In chapter 5, all characters, including Ralsei, receive titles and descriptions that don’t describe them specifically but instead describe various plants using metaphors. While the descriptions are used for their respective characters, in each case, the sentences themselves describe the plants that are used for the title. I’ve seen people debate that if that were the case, then “its” should have been used, as they claim that a “Dark Vine” should just be an object. I would like to posit that this sentence is “humanizing” the dark vine, which in my opinion, falls in line with what we see in this very chapter! A majority of the new characters in chapter 5 are plants/flowers given form, agency, and yes, even gender expression. I don’t think it’s too far off to say that just like how Green and Seth use they/them pronouns, they/them could also be used to describe the Dark Vine in this case.

For Asgore, I believe using they/them pronouns is just a matter of Asgore never having met Ralsei before and is using gender-neutral pronouns to be respectful (He also has a non-binary child himself, so Asgore most likely knows the importance of being respectful with pronoun usage, especially before you know for certain). Not only has Asgore never met, talked to, or interacted with Ralsei before, but the room with the fountain is also very dark, with a very harsh light emanating from the fountain. The entire backside of the characters (In relation to our POV) are completely dark. It is very likely that in addition to not knowing Ralsei, Asgore might not even be able to see Ralsei clearly in this scene, especially if Ralsei is still trying to partially hide from him.  

Finally, while I’m sure most people do not still think this, Ralsei in fact does not change his pronouns to they/them, or only gets referred to by they/them after his conversation with Flowery. There may be more examples, but during the Flowery boss fight it states “Ralsei gives his all!” when using one of his actions. Likewise, during the secret boss fight, Ralsei has an action specifically called “LovelyBoy”.   

Thank you so much if you read most or all of my arguments. I am extremely thankful, and I am sorry it was so long. I hope you all have a great day.

After looking at different discussions, I have consistently seen people on both sides of the trans ralsei conversation getting the drink vouchers wrong. Specifically the meaning behind the blue and pink voucher/drink. One side will say it represents Susie and Kris as their skin matches the colors of the voucher. The other side will say that it doesn't as Susies skin is purple, not pink and instead references the trans pride flag. Both in my opinion are wrong.

That being said the drink vouchers do represent the fun gang (Susie and Kris). Sometimes it seems like people forget Ralsei is given three drink vouchers, a purple one, a yellow and green one, and a blue and pink one.

The purple drink voucher represents Susie, as she has purple skin and mostly wears purple in both light and dark worlds.

The yellow and green voucher represents light world Kris, as they have yellow skin and wear a green and yellow shirt.

The blue and pink voucher represents dark world Kris, who has blue skin and hair, and a pink scarf/cape.

Ralsei is most drawn to this color because it reminds them the most about the Kris that they know, dark world Kris. The reason they are uncertain on whether to take that voucher for themselves (correct me if I am wrong) is because they think Kris might want it more. Flowery then tells Ralsei not to think about Kris, not because he wants Ralsei to not care about or think about Kris, but because he is trying to get Ralsei to make a decision that he wants to make. (Which ironically enough, even if you do take the blue and pink, we make the decision for him!)

All that being said, it's a part of why I think the vouchers as a whole don't really prove anything for the trans ralsei head cannon/theory, but at the same time it's still important to understand what the vouchers as a whole mean for Ralsei as they continue to develop.