u/Simply_Amazing_1610

The Chronological Order of Events in Cat and Mouse - Part 1

The Chronological Order of Events in Cat and Mouse - Part 1

Chronological Order of Events - Part 1

  1. The Mice arrive in the secret chamber, at lets say time 00:00. They read the rules, LX makes a scheme with Gao Lan and Chen Ran, then they are hidden for 10 mins

  2. Lin Xuan moves Chen Ran to Normal Space - 2 and Gao Lan to Fast Space - 2[where he directly arrives at Floor 18’s last room]. Gao Lan from Fast Space - 2 and Chen Ran from Normal Space - 2 replace their counterparts

  3. The cats arrive at 00:10 and read the rules

  4. Qiu Yinong deduces the mice are hidden and tries touching but Shu Renjun uses Whisperer : Forbidden Bookstore, darkening the room and letting all mice escape

  5. Qiu Yinong deduces Lin Xuan being hidden among the cats, but guesses wrong, resulting in Pan faced woman clearing the game and Lin Xuan ascending to Floor 1.

  6. Qiu Hua proposes his Mice Extermination Strategy, urging players to verify his premise by going to First Floor

  7. All the cats arrive at Floor 1 at 00:30, spotting all the mice except Lin Xuan being present. All Cats utter 2 Future Lies, which the mice also hear

  8. Zhou Zhan is keeping guard at Floor 1, while remaining 9 Cats ascend the next floors

  9. Qiu Hua blocks the elevator at Floor 2 and induces Fitness Blogger to use his skill Weird Speaker : Rampage is used by Fitness Blogger at Floor 3. The Building is darkened

  10. Qiu Yinong is transported to the Fast Space 1 of Lin Xuan’s skill after she silently exits the group of cats, where she directly arrives at Floor 12. The counterpart from Fast Space 1 is transported to the current Normal Space, where she still silently runs upstairs Lin Xuan from Floor 3 replaces Qiu Yinong in the Cats team

  11. Meanwhile in Fast Space - 2, Gao Lan is touched by Qiu Yinong of Fast Space - 2, becoming a ghost and becoming Mice back

  12. Meanwhile in Fast Space - 1, Qiu Yinong from original space touches Gao Lan of Fast Space - 1 [after seeing the elevator at Floor 12 climb to 18], causing all Qiu Yinongs of all spaces to clear the game

  13. Chen Ran uses Eternal Kingdom from Normal Space - 2, breaking all skills and skill-created items

  14. Gao Lan, already in Mice form, returns to Normal Space back to Floor 1. Chen Ran does too, back to Floor 1. [Note: Gao Lan can return to Floor 1 cuz he is only blocked from going to the Ground Floor. While Lin Xuan was already blocked from going to Ground Floor after getting caught]

  15. All No-Distance users attack Zhou Zhan, as he has lost his glasses. Gao Lan runs away to Floor 2.

  16. Meanwhile Cats at Floor 3 are busy picking up dropped items due to Eternal Kingdom’s effect

  17. Gao Lan un-jams the Elevator at Floor 2, Rises to Floor 18, then comes down back to Floor 8 and sends the elevator back to Floor 2

  18. Qiu Hua hides the elevator display with his back, thus hiding Gao Lan’s movements

  19. Gao Lan hides in the last room of Floor 8

  20. Lin Xuan, as Qiu Yinong, reaches Floor 8’s last room first, where Gao Lan disguises as Qiu Yinong and Lin Xuan acts as himself.

  21. Fitness Blogger touches Lin Xuan, thus clearing the game. Lin Xuan descends to Floor 2 and starts scrambling the items, while Gao Lan continues as Qiu Yinong to search

  22. Search of Floor 18 finished, Lin Xuan’s Three Star Teammate - 2 used elevator to reach Floor 1 and replace Zhou Zhan

  23. Lin Xuan’s Three Star Teammate - 2 is deceived into lying, and thus hides in a room with Zhou Zhan, while Chen Ran disguises himself as Lin Xuan’s Three Star Teammate - 2. Short and Stout disguises as Chen Ran and hides under the stairway

  24. The cats reach Floor 2 and start the search again

  25. Gao Lan, disguised as Qiu Yinong, finds Lin Xuan again in Floor 8. They both exchange places, thus Lin Xuan acts as Qiu Yinong while Gao Lan acts as the mice hypothetically touched by Zhou Zhan

  26. Gao Lan’s Three Star Teammate - 1 touches Gao Lan and clears the game. Gao Lan proceeds silently to Floor 18 [Note : Gao Lan is prohibited from going to Floor 1 now]

  27. After conversation at Floor 8, Cats search till Floor 18, where Lin Xuan and Gao Lan exchange the disguise, so Gao Lan acts as Qiu Yinong while Lin Xuan acts as a frustrated rat

  28. Gao Lan’s Three Star Teammate - 2 touches Lin Xuan and clears stage. [Note : Lin Xuan is prohibited from going to Floor 2]. Xu Jingzhou is sent to Floor 1 to monitor the Rats while Lin Xuan’s Three Star Teammate - 2 hypothetically clears

  29. The Cats start their search again at Floor 2, while Xu Jingzhou reaches Floor 1

  30. Xu Jinzhou is tricked into a lie by a disguised Chen Ran. The cats complete their search of Floor 5 and proceed to Floor 6

  31. Both Zhou Zhan and Lin Xuan’s Three Star Teammate - 2 run upwards, while Shu Renjun kills Xu Jingzhou

  32. While the cats are distracted by gunshot, Lin Xuan disguises himself as Qiu Yinong while Gao Lan disguises as an object

  33. Lin Xuan as Qiu Yinong induces the cats to leave Han Bing to guard Floor 6. Gao Lan is hidden as an object on Floor 6

  34. After the cats reach Floor 8, Gao Lan kills Han Bing and runs downwards to the floors below

  35. Gao Lan, while running downwards, collides with Zhou Zhan running upward. He makes Zhou Zhan clear instantaneously and gets into ghost form [Gao Lan is forbidden from accessing Floor 2 now]

  36. Lin Xuan’s Three Star Teammate - 2 reasons out the plans of the mice and touches Shu Renjun, clearing the game and making Shu Renjun a ghost for 10 mins [Shu Renjun is forbidden from accessing Ground Floor now]

  37. Both Ye Qian and Guan Xiong try touching Lin Xuan. Guan Xiong touches and clears the game.

  38. Thus as the scheme falls apart, all the cats and rats get shuffled among the building, changing their appearance to mimic the cats

For better formatting read from the on progress doc from the link given below

Cat and Mouse Complete Explanation

u/Simply_Amazing_1610 — 15 hours ago
▲ 34 r/EighteenLevelsOfHell+1 crossposts

A Dance of Demons Strategy - Qiu Hua - Cat and Mouse arc - 18LoH

Sorry if the text is kinda non understandable for non 18 loh readers, this really needs context. Pics unrelated

The Dance of Demons Strategy - Qiu Hua

Situation

Qiu Hua arrives with the cats at the 10 min mark. He notices the maneuvers of Lin Xuan, the mice and Qiu Yinong. Thus he grasps upon the most important element of this web of schemes - Qiu Yinong

Strategic Premises

He knows Qiu Yinong has the Wheel of Time ability, and as a cat it will be impossible for cats to lose because she can constantly rewind time and never let the mice reach their 120 min countdown for clearance.

Thus, the aim of the mice will be to let Qiu Yinong clear the game as fast as possible. And Qiu Yinong will comply with the mice, as her teammate Chen Ran is also a mouse.

Thus he deduces Layer 1 of the mice’s plan. Waiting at the first floor in visible places to let Qiu Yinong escape first without letting other cats escape. They also need to wait at Floor 1 to make sure the cat and mice aren't deceived by any Fake Cats, after Lin Xuan has already been exposed.

Thus Premise 1 : All Mice want to make Qiu Yinong clear as fast as possible Premise 2 : All the Mice except Lin Xuan should be at Floor 1

Now with this premise in mind, he devices the most efficient strategy to let the cats win.

He also knows Lin Xuan’s Space skills and Chen Ran’s Eternal Kingdom partially. He also knows Lin Xuan would also deduce the overt scheme, so he is able to deduce Lin Xuan’s scheme, which are the 3rd and 4th layers of the Cat and Mouse scheme.

Thus Premise 3 : Lin Xuan disturbing arrangements [will be explained in Lin Xuan’s section]. This Premise exists because Lin Xuan knows the overt scheme of Qiu Hua

Premise 4 : Elevator usage will occur due to premise 3

Premise 5 : the mice decieving the cats sent to guard for their strategies

Objectives

Overt Objective : Make all the cats win as fast as possible

Hidden Objectives : Qiu Hua’s actual aim isn’t just to let the cats win. He wants to

Eliminate the low intelligence cats that might interfere in subsequent chambers Eliminate Shu Renjun Eliminate other intelligent mice too

To achieve these hidden objectives he actively helps the other mice to complete their layers of planning

Initial Strategy - Overt Objective [The Second Layer of Cat and Mouse]

  1. Establish a set of Future Lies for the cats to cooperate on.
  2. Keep a cat monitoring the Mice on the first floor. If the mice try to move, the cat can just announce “You are a mouse” to freeze the player as per rules. Also jam the elevator in Floor 2, to make it even more difficult for the mice to escape supervision
  3. The other players will search through Floors 2 to 18, memorising every object in every room, but this round of seeing and memorising should be superficial

Resource Allocation : By the time this strategy will start, 10 mins would have already passed. Thus all the remaining 5 mice have to be touched in these 110 mins to prevent them from clearing. This is just an approx calculation, and Qiu Hua knows Mice appeared x minutes before cats, thus the time they may have is less.

110 / 5 = 22 mins. And these 22 mins can be used to study those 17 floors Thus 22 / 17 = 1.3 mins (approx). Removing 0.3 mins for climbing stairs, there is approx 1 min to search each floor. Everyone has to be together while searching through these floors.

Now the more efficient method would be to have each pair search a floor, one to guard the hallway while the other searches the rooms. But this can make it easy for the mice to act as fake cats. The Cats have to be near each other to deter mice infiltration.

  1. After searching the 18 Floors, the search starts again at the 2nd Floor while one of the cats replaces the cat keeping watch of the Floor 1 mice. The replaced cat can then touch a mouse and clear the level.

  2. The touched mouse will also be found upstairs, which can be touched by another cat to clear the level. The search will still continue to the 18 Floors and start again at Floor 2

  3. Thus just after 3 rounds of searching the entire building, all cats will have enough memory to find any transformed mice. The constant clearance by the safe guarding cats and touching the mice that have to travel above due to the mice being prohibited in lower floors would enable all the cats to clear easily after just 3 rounds / 66 mins of the game.

Now this strategy is highly efficient in cornering the mice, requiring from 66 to near 90 mins for all cats to clear, given that no external interference happens. It will disable the ability of mice to disguise as Fake Cats, or even hide in any floor other than Floor 1, making their movements predictable.

Now Qiu Hua knows if he can strategise this, the mice will also deduce the same strategy.

So Qiu Hua tries foreseeing the schemes of other mice and cats, thus starts including some exploitable loopholes and hints in his strategy, to achieve the hidden Objectives

Manipulating with Initial Strategy [The Sixth Layer of Cat and Mouse]

  1. Make others think of the within which one search is to be completed as 24 mins. Amidst a high stakes situation, make everyone wrongly calculate that the remaining 5 cats have 120 mins remaining when it's less than 110 mins.

Thus he says

"In this way, our search speed will be very fast. We just need to complete the search of the entire building within 24 minutes."

When the Fitness Blogger asks why 24 mins, he doesn’t tell the reason. This is to make dumb 3 stars into violating the Future lie accidentally. This can be observed in how he frames the Future Lies to be said.

  1. He clues Qiu Yinong to the second loophole. He mentions

"Whoever opens the last room on the Eighteenth Layer first goes down to the First Floor.”

But while framing the future lie, he conveniently leaves that part out. This is to clue in to Qiu Yinong that her escape should happen in the last room of Eighteenth Floor. This is just one of several clues he specifically leaves for Qiu Yinong for her to clear first.

This is also make it easier for Lin Xuan and Gao Lan to disguise as Qiu Yinong, according to their 3rd and 4th layer of their plans [His dialogues are audible at the First Floor]

It should be noted that Qiu Hua knows Lin Xuan’s skills, so he has already predicted that Lin Xuan will space transfer Qiu Yinong to let her clear. He also deduces that Chen Ran will use his Eternal Kingdom to block Fitness Blogger’s Rampage skill.

  1. Another key move he makes for Qiu Yinong to deduce the escape plan is to word his plans in such a way that Qiu Yinong will deduce the hidden variables. This also serves another function, to put psychological pressure on Fitness Blogger

“We don't need to search too carefully, just remember the scene."

If further deductions were made on Qiu Hua’s plan, it would inevitably lead to one of the two results

One: When the cats are searching, if they do not search carefully, and if they cannot catch any mice. Two: When the cats are searching, if they can catch all the mice on the floors above the Second Floor.

The first result: If they cannot catch any mice, then only the cats guarding the First Floor will clear the secret chamber in advance, which means five cats will clear the secret chamber early. [1 cat already cleared before the entire thing starts]

And the final result will be that upstairs, from the Second to the Eighteenth Floor, a total of six mice and five cats searching for mice will be hidden.

The second result: That is, in every round of searching, if all the mice upstairs are caught, then the outcome will be: the entire building only needs to be searched three times, and the mice will inevitably lose.

Now the first result means the first five cats clearing the game are 3 stars, to prevent them from interfering in the late game showdown between highly intelligent 4 and 5 star players.

Do note that Qiu Hua doesn't know Chen Ran can also dispel skills and skill-created items, thus he thinks leaving weaker 3 star players to guard the mice and exit the game early is safe, because they have sunglasses to protect them against No Distance in the early game .

Thus 5 3-stars would leave the game early, but there are 7 3-star players in total, and since the cats will protect Qiu Yinong, the Fitness Blogger will alone remain as a discarded piece of Shu Renjun. The Fitness Blogger knew he was a discarded piece since before entering the instance and he also performs poorly in intelligence as compared to Qiu Hua, which Qiu Hua also indirectly points out to Fitness Blogger.

Thus the first variable will drive Fitness Blogger into a corner, making him want to clear the game the fastest. But Qiu Hua and others will block Fitness Blogger from touching Lin Xuan, which will compel him to use his skill to try escape.

Under skill usage the environment becomes pitch black, and this dark cover would help Lin Xuan replace Qiu Yinong.

  1. The first Future Lie: The cats remaining on the First Floor cannot touch the controlled mice in advance; they must only touch the mice when another cat takes over for them, or when 24 minutes have passed.

The second Future Lie: The players remaining on the First Floor cannot touch the mice midway while going downstairs

As explained above, even though Qiu Hua said in plan that the one searching the last room must go down, the future lies don't include that.

And through the First Future Lie, even if the cats are killed/ deceived and blackmailed by Mice in Floor 1, the other cats can’t go to support to not violate the Future Lie. Thus this Future Lie creates an Information Asymmetry for the better execution of Layer 5 of Cat and Mouse Scheme

  1. Through the wording and the second result discussed above, he manipulates the remaining cats into thinking that Qiu Yinong is actually not important, since her wheel of time can be blocked from usage by Eternal Kingdom anyways.

Thus the other cats are manipulated by Qiu Hua into thinking that Qiu Yinong is bait for the mice. This makes them not pay attention to Qiu Yinong, thus making the identity swap deception of Lin Xuan and Gao Lan easy to execute.

  1. Qiu Hua also hides the elevator display conveniently when the others are searching the floor. Thus he also covers up Gao Lan for the Layer 4 of Cat and Mouse Scheme.

Through this plan Qiu Hua is able to control the movements and actions of both the Cats and Mice, until Gao Lan, under Evening Breeze’s instruction, breaks the scheme. Thus he implements a Dance of Demons, where the strong prey upon the weak and each other while Qiu Hua stays ahead of all

Read ongoing doc for better readability

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1brJcgB80jlddNpi44vMfjtv-dJHOAHAsJvgBiTT91mY/edit?usp=drivesdk

u/Simply_Amazing_1610 — 15 hours ago

Chen Ran still has Black hair btw

The white hair part was an allusion to the fact that Chen Ran has changed his appearance to the white haired Jiang Zhe. Chen ran still has black hair canonically

u/Simply_Amazing_1610 — 12 days ago
▲ 54 r/EighteenLevelsOfHell+1 crossposts

Quality Posting Streak - Hotel Murder Mystery Feat : 18 LoH Explanation

Introduction

This is the final showdown between Chen Ran and Lin Jiabei. This game is based on the movie "Identity". So if you have watched the movie, the premise is similar here too. A murder in the hotel, but everyone involved is a personality of the above two. But nobody knows who the other is, whether they are Chen Ran's or Lin Jiabei's Personality.

Before the game started, Chen Ran was able to successfully decipher Lin Jiabei's Whisperer Chamber, but kicks his foot on an iron chair in anger[EM antifeat fr], causing his psychological momentum against Lin Jiabei to halt.

The objective of this game is to kill of both the opponent and the player's other personalities, and be the last person standing.

The Characters

The following are the characters and their true identity in this Murder mystery. The identities are listed as per initial appearances, but do not necessarily correlate to their true identity. Eg the Female police officer may not be a police officer at all. So I'll use a diff set of names for them.

Initial Appearance Code Names I keep The Corresponding Personality
Little Girl Little Girl Lin Jiabei's Sub-Personality
Muscular Youth Muscle Lin Jiabei's Sub-Personality
Smoking Elder Elder Lin Jiabei's Main Personality
Fat Otaku Otaku Chen Ran's Sub-Personality
Chen Ran Ran Chen Ran's Sub-Personality
Lin Jiabei Lin Chen Ran's Main Personality
Female Police Officer FPO Chen Ran's Sub-Personality
Male Police Offcier MPO Lin Jiabei's Sub-Personality

We can't find exactly who is whose sub personality for a lot of these identities, but it doesnt matter as all are antagonistic to each other. The guesses Ive made are assuming Little Girl's deductions are true.

Basics - Gui Yu

Gui Yu's are basically Lies that everyone believes as the truth due to a forged physcial evidence of its validity. Thus these cannot be judged as lies, until an unique objective evidence disproves the validity of it and is present in the same space as the Gui Yu itself does.

For eg : Assume there are a colony of underground humans who never knew who Micheal Jackson is, if someone has said that they are Micheal Jackson, and proves it by maybe singing pop songs, then anyone who denies that the guy is not Micheal Jackson, without any objective evidence, will be judged as a liar.

Meanwhile, everyone else who also say that the guy is Micheal Jackson wont be judged as liars. But if someone somewhere has discovered the id card of either Micheal Jackson or the guy, the Gui Yu is broken universally.

Those who had uttered the Gui Yu previously but not after it has broken won't be considered liars. Except the creator of the Gui Yu. If he had uttered the Gui Yu, then he would be considered a liar after it has broken, even though he hadnt uttered the Gui Yu after its breaking.

Those who utter the Gui Yu, not knowing it has been broken, will be considered liars. If the creator of the Gui Yu, had created it without uttering it at all, maybe by his actions instead of words, he wont be considered a liar even after the Gui Yu is broken.

Basics - Liar Killer Guns

Liar Killer Guns can only shoot at a person if the command "You Lied" is uttered and the person being shot has uttered it. Its shot can bypass Liar Killer Gun Protection.

Liar Killer Guns can protect its user from any kind of physical interaction with a living person. It can also protect from any incoming physical projectiles. Thus a wielder fo Liar Killer Gun cannot be killed with force.

The Situation

Everyone wants to decieve each other into lying in this game. Everyone acts in the role they are given, and dont use physical force to kill each other. All their Liar Killer Guns are colourless, only gaining a tint of the Main Personality's colour when they kill someone. Everyone knows themselves if they are the main or sub personality, and whose main/ sub personality they are.

The Hotel they are in and the surrounding area are isolated from the outside world. This play of deception starts late into the night, and goes on to end at the next day's morning.

Chronological Sequence of Events

  1. Elder, Little Girl, Muscle and Otaku are present at the Hotel's Reception Sofa.
  2. Ran drives by in his light red car, finds muddy ground and unable to travel further, gets off and enters hotel
  3. Elder acts like the boss, creating a Gui Yu that he is the boss and thus they are all actual people.
  4. Lin comes in her light red car, finds Ran's car, parks near it and enters hotel. Then proceeds to book a room and takes 30 mins to bath and come down (so prob around 1 hr since she arrived passes)
  5. Prob 5 mins after Lin got off her car, both FPO and MPO come in their police car. They fake a three way collision, getting FPO hurt [FPO uses Lin's car to get herself collided between Ran's car and Police Car]. In exchange FPO leaves her Liar Killer Gun near car.
  6. 25 mins is the travel time from muddy area to hotel. So after both Ran and Lin have bathed and left their Liar Killer Guns in their room, FPO and MPO arrive. FPO acts unconscious
  7. MPO is helped by Elder to carry FPO to room 208 in the second floor. There Elder reveals that Ran and Lin came to Hotel the most recent.
  8. MPO arives at the lounge and lies about the accident, to elicit others's lies. The lie here being the presence of the white car.
  9. MPO accuses Lin as the primary suspect, making her handcuff herself to the stairpost.
  10. Everyone go to their respective rooms to sleep.
  11. FPO jumps out her room to get her gun.
  12. Lin breaks her arm to escape the handcuffs and get her gun, through running outside the hotel and climbing into her window.
  13. Lin arrives at FPO's room and wears FPO's uniform, then acts unconscious in her stead
  14. Prob Elder comes down and acts as the handcuffed Lin, making Ran do a false judgment and thus Prob Elder kills Ran.
  15. Otaku plants evidence to make himself the criminal, including planting wet pajamas in his room beforehand, making his hair wet in the sides and arriving late to the murder scene (to make others think he was framed internally)
  16. After MPO, Elder, Little Girl, Muscle and Otaku arrive at the Murder scene, MPO seeing FPO(Lin) unconscious before reaching. Otaku leads MPO to think Otaku is the murderer. Thus Otaku is handcuffed and everyone returns to their room.
  17. Before everyone returns back, FPO comes back and dons the uniform Lin left, while Lin hides in her room. FPO acts unconscious.
  18. MPO, afraid that runaway Lin could judge him, switches room with FPO (Rooms 207 and 208).
  19. Muscle, deducing MPO had lied earlier, goes to shoot, but fails judgement cuz the people were switched. Thus killed by MPO.
  20. MPO tries switching suspiscion to Elder, thus handcuffing Elder near Otaku.
  21. MPO is judged to death by Little Girl while he is returning to room.
  22. Otaku still hadcuffed, others return to their rooms
  23. FPO jumps through the window, comes back in to "interrogate" Otaku
  24. FPO fakes false judgement and runs off, while Otaku plays along with her to try decieve Elder and Little Girl
  25. Elder and Little Girl realise Otaku faked his evidences, thus they free him from handcuffs
  26. Otaku proposes the idea of FPO identity being a gui yu
  27. FPO smashes the light fixture, signalling Lin that the trap is ready
  28. FPO recounts second of the three diff versions of the events to Otaku, Elder and Little Girl, while avoiding lies and proposing that the two police officers were actually MPO and Ran. This happens in Room 207
  29. Lin recounts the third of the three diff versions of the events without evading the lie. The entire story doesnt involve a Gui Yu. This happens in Room 208.
  30. Elder, Otaku and Little Girl return to their rooms. Time is 2:25 AM now.
  31. Otaku and Little Girl jump out the window a hour later, and proceed to the site of the car collision along with Elder. Time is 3:25 AM.
  32. They reach site at 3:50 AM. Seeing the car crash they believe in FPO's version of events and that FPO's identity is actually a Gui Yu, that is now broken due to the three observing a unique evidence. This also means the three thought Lin lied due to her mentioning FPO, and the creator of Gui Yu is a liar if they utter their Gui Yu
  33. The three return back to hotel at 4:30 AM
  34. At 5:00 AM, Little Girl tries judging Lin for her lies at room 208, but fails the judgement. Little Girl is killed after forcing her to room 207.
  35. After the gunshot is heard, Elder tries getting Otaku to lie but fails.
  36. Elder goes to room 207 and decieves FPO into speaking a lie (denying an active Gui Yu without evidence), then kills FPO.
  37. Elder reveals Lin's scheme in room 208, but is unable to make her lie. Thus the remaining three - Elder, Otaku and Lin sit on the sofa
  38. Lin utters a seperate Gui Yu dependant on Elder's Gui Yu as the Hotel Boss to confirm who are whose personalities. The information is known to Otaku too, only the Elder remains unsure of the personalities.
  39. The Elder takes out the id of the Hotel's Boss, which would dispel the Gui Yu, but all three of them dont see its front, and the card is then covered by a cloth. In return to the id being preent on the table, all three utter a future lie "In the infinite time to come, no one will actively look at the information on this ID card."
  40. Seeing Elder's open scheme, Lin proposes another future lie they agree upon "as long as all three of us are alive, no one can open fire."
  41. All return to their rooms. Otaku jumps through the window and starts running, Elder gives chase
  42. At 8 AM both Otaku and Elder predict Lin would look at the id, making both Elder and Lin liars but Otaku remains a non Liar
  43. Elder, realising he has been decieved, decides to kill himself to give Otaku a chance to kill Lin and thus save Lin Jiabao outside the game
  44. Otaku returns to the hotel but the id is pasted at the door, and seeing it makes Otaku a liar too, thus activating free for all. But Lin, hidden behind shoots Otaku 5 times.
  45. Thus Lin as the remaining player clears the game.

There are a lot of events that happened chronologically, and a lot of lies involved which muddle the order of events or the people involved. I could discuss each's thought process and deceptions but that would make this more lengthy. So I'll only discuss the strategies of Chen Ran's Main Personality. Do tell me if uwant a pov of every personality tho.

Lin Jiabei (Chen Ran's Main Personality)

I'll still keep referring him as Lin so as to not confuse with the arrogant personality Ran.

Lin arrives in her light red car, she sees Ran's car parked and decides to park hers nearby too. Her whole strategy revolves around being lowkey and let others fight within each other, while also letting people not assignherself with Chen Ran.

Step 1 : She acts timid while entering the Hotel. She acts like a very shy, embarresed and cautious girl, reducing her presence.

She has hands held vertically in front and feet together, looking like a good student.[Acting]

She asks for a room to shower in, doesnt mention the elder as the boss of the hotel to avoid speaking a lie [Minor Trap Evasion]

She stammers while speaking

>"Um, is there... is there still a room here" [Acting]

For the sake of distancing herself from the image of Chen Ran as far as possible, she doesnt even smoke the whole game. [Perseverance lol]

She also observes the Elder smoking and notices it to be slightly off. Thus she is highly suspiscious Elder might be Lin Jiabei's personality acting like a Chen Ran personality [Observation and Reasoning]

Step 2 : She figures out with identical light red cars, someone might use them to elicit a lie from others [Foresight]. To make the liar feel safe, she leaves her liar killer gun in the bathroom and comes down to the lobby again.

As she expected, the MPO comes to the hotel, carrying the unconscious acting FPO. When the MPO questions Ran and Lin, saying them looking bathed must mean they had come recently, and that one of the two has hit-and-run the FPO..

Lin deduces that the reason MPO is giving for suspiscion isnt valid enough[Reasoning]. Then thhe information about the newcomers must have come from one of the hotel dwellers, and its the Elder because only he interacted with MPO before interrogation started.[Reasoning]

She stil stammers the following : [Acting]

>"I, I, I drove here, but I encountered a muddy patch on the road, and the car couldn't get through, so I got out and walked. But my car isn't white, it's, it's, it's light red."

This turns the suspiscion to Ran. Ran reasons out it isnt possible for him to have commited a hit-and-run, so it must be Lin. This makes many think Lin has lied, and the MPO handcuffs Lin to the staircase post.

Step 3 : Lin knows the MPO has lied. She has actually encouraged him to lie by not bringing the liar killer gun with her. [Indirect Manipulation]. She has done this so that others may lie after the MPO unknowingly.

After everyone has gone to their room, Lin deduces Ran's thought process. Since Ran doesnt know that there are two light red cars, he'll think that the MPO was telling the truth and Lin lied. Thus he'll come down to judge her. [Reasoning and Foresight]

She knows tying her down was MPO's trap for someone to lie. She also knows someone else will anticipate this trap and come to judge the liar.

So she breaks her wrist without making a noice and escapes out of the hotel[Pain Tolerance]. Meanwhile the FPO/Elder comes to the place where Lin was handcuffed and acts like Lin (Im not sure who acted like Lin here).

This action eventually leads to Ran's death by false judgement. Lin anticipates this happening in advance.

Step 4 : Lin picks up her gun and gets to the FPO's room. Since she knows MPO lied about the accident and it s likely faked, she deduces FPO will use a trap to lure other's lies, thus she enters FPO's room.

FPO had anticipated Lin entering her room, and they both join forces without any dialogue, through the police uniform she left for Lin. The aim of FPO and Lin now is to make others believe that they had planned the accident together (FPO, MPO and Lin), and FPO is actually not a Police officer but Lin is. They exchanged clothes to create the Gui Yu that FPO is a police officer.

FPO had already planned for this since the beginning when she faked the accident. Thus Lin joins inthe plan and acts like the unconscious FPO while the others go to check the murder scene. Lin then puts the uniform back and hides in her room.

Step 5 : Lin anticipates others dying for the room switch MPO does, as well as the MPO dying. Her aim is to be less impressive than other personalities, so that Lin Jiabei's Main Personality would assume them as the Main Personality of Chen Ran.

FPO prepares a trap to create a fake Gui Yu with Lin, that others will think as the real Gui Yu. Lin particpates. After FPO tries a trap with Otaku near the staircase, which exposes Otaku as a very intelligent adversary contrary to first impressions, the trio of Elder, Otaku ans Little Girl arrive at FPO's room.

Lin even deduces that FPO will say the following line in her version of the story

>"However, constrained by the fact that the Guǐ Yǔ has already become the truth, I can only say that the words I am about to speak might be true, or they might be something I fabricated."

FPO and Lin know that this refers to the Gui Yu Elder has constructed, but the statement will lead others to think this is about the Gui Yu FPO has constructed, which is false and not even a Gui Yu.

Lin recounts her version of the story, mentioning FPO multiple times. This leads the trio to think that they should break this Gui Yu, so that the creator of the Gui Yu, Lin would become a liar(which she wouldnt, cuz FPO is a FPO)..

Step 6 : Lin foresees that the trio will visit the crash site, so as to "break" this Gui Yu. After believing that the Gui Yu is broken, the Little Girl enters Lin's room to judge her, but is judged to death instead, but only after being pushed to FPO's room opposite.

Here her scheme is to make both Elder and Otaku think that she wrongly judged FPO. But both Elder and Otaku would deduce that the Little Girl would never judge FPO, so they would quickly uncover Lin's trap and think she isnt smart enough to their level (because the trap was low level).[Deception, Anti Trap Setting]

But Lin wants them to underestimate her and think that. She has, since the start of the game, identified Lin Jiabao's personality (Elder) and has even deduced that he probably is the main personality.[Reasoning]

She also gets wet in the rain, to make them think that the Little Girl tried judging Lin but she ran away early, knowing her lies are exposed. But both Elder and Otaku would deduce that Lin never lied, and getting wet was a trap to make them think she lied.[Deception]

Lin wants both to deduce that, and underestimate her more

Step 7 : Elder thus underestimates Lin and decieves FPO to death. He tries the same with Lin next. He announces that he has deduced all of Lin's schemes, and he isnt worried about her at all

He even announces Otaku is the one he is worried about, cause neither Lin nor FPO is the Main Personality of Chen Ran or Lin Jiabei

This is technically a lie, but since the Elder has the Gui Yu that he is the hotel Boss, saying everyone is an identity would deny the Elder's Gui Yu, thus becoming a lie.

So till Elder's Gui Yu gets broken, he wouldnt be the liar. Lin is now close to victory, cuz she only needs to break this Gui Yu to make Elder a liar.

[Chen Ran Antifeat] : Lin actually gets her hand to the gun when the Elder says that she isnt a Main Personality [EM antifeat]. This actually leads Elder to doubt if he is Chen Ran's Main Personality.

Step 8 : Lin fixes her mistake here. She announces that she isn't Chen Ran or Lin Jiabei's Main personality when both Otaku and Elder are present. This serves several purposes

  1. Since this statement is a Gui Yu that will become a lie if the Gui Yu of Elder is broken and if Lin is a Main personality, the Elder thinks that Lin wouldn't take such a risk and thus, wouldnt be the Main Personality
  2. This acts as a message to Otaku, who is Chen Ran's Sub-Personality. He knows that the Main Personality is trying to act as the Sub-Personality. He wants to eliminate Elder before facing off himself, thus agrees silently to act as the Main Personality

SInce the situation is at a stalemate, Lin plans to decieve elder into thinking of having a free for all gun battle, where everyone will be a liar [It will be advantageous to Elder due to his gun shooting experience, while Cehn Ran is a novice]. Otaku also thinks of the same plan, and thus also shouts that He isnt Chen Ran's or Lin Jiabei's Main personality.

Thus the above line acts as a way to pressurise and manipulate Elder, because now he isnt sure who is Chen Ran's Main Personality among the two, while the other two know who the elder and the other person is. [Psychological Profiling and Manipulation, Deception]

Elder's further hesitation to break the Gui Yu confirms to Lin that Elder is the main personality of Lin Jiabei [Observation]

Step 9 : The Elder proposesa free for all type battle, a situation where everyone is a liar and thus, their liar killer guns can be used like normal guns. Thus the Elder takes out the ID of the Hotel Boss, but doesnt see ithjmself or reveal it to preserve the Gui Yu.

Lin manipulates the elder to propose a future lie that will prohibit anyone from actively looking at the card, so that the Sub-Personality, who hasnt said a lie, will break the Gui Yu and also become a liar, to make all others liars too. Lin manipulates Elder to come to this plan, because Elder has an absolute advantage is shooting. This manipulation is so subtle that the Otaku also doesnt know of it, and this will be larpter used as a trap against Otaku [Short Term Planning, Manipulation, Trap Setting]

But since Lin acted like the Sub-Personality, Otaku will act like the main personality and run off so that the Elder cant reach him. But when Elder catches up to Otaku, thinking its the main personality runningaway for a chance, he can't shoot him cuz Otaku neither broke the future lie, nor stated the broken Gui Yu. This will lead to Elder's death. While Lin becomes a liar after breaking the Gui Yu.

But Lin also has to scheme against the Otaku, without alerting the Elder. Thus she proposes this future lie

>"As long as all three of us are alive, no one can open fire."

The elder doesnt realise he had lied to Lin already, because he doesnt know she is Chen Ran's Main Personality. Thus he comes to the conclusion that its for her to confirm the Elder is a liar when he shoots Otaku.. The Elder also wants to kill Otaku first before her, as he said before.

The Otaku thinks this line is to make the Otaku a liar, when he kills the Elder, because even if the Gui Yu breaks, he won't be a liar. Elder wrongly assumes he will be a liar because he thinks Otaku is the main personality

The entire step is a 3 layered deception, because Lin also anticipates Otaku driving the Elder to suicide, thus not breaking her proposed Future Lie too. This will keep Otaku in a massively advantageous position and will make him careless, since he is close to victory. Otaku thinks he is exploiting the loophole in the Future Lie, when the loophole is planned by Lin.[Short Term Planning, Deception]

Thus, Elder is driven to suicide by Otaku, because otaku can judge elser but Elder can't, since Otaku is not a liar. He has to kill himself so that Otaku can kill Chen Ran's Main Personality and thus her brother outside would be saved from Chen Ran. [Emotional Manipulation]

Step 10 : Everything happened as per Lin's plan. Otaku returns to the Hotel to kill off Lin, but Lin has pasted the ID on the door. This causes Otaku to read the ID, violating the Future lie Elder proposed, which also makes Otaku a liar. Thus Lin, successful in her plan, shoots Otaku from behind and clears the Dungeon.

After analysing the feat, I could see Chen Ran's sub-personalities do more scheming than the main one. This is because Chen Ran wanted to decieve Lin Jiabei with this advantage. The traps at the end were impressive, playing on both the Elder and Otaku's psychology, but also highlights Chen Ran's weaknesses in the early arc

This arc (The entire Lonely Revenge arc) covers various weaknesses of Chen Ran, from his immediate jumping to conclusions in Self killing feat to his arrogance and carelessness near victory in this Identity game. He identifies his weaknesses and fixes them tho, getting his EM high but also channeling his arrogance and rage to productive areas.

If youve read till here, Thanks!

u/Simply_Amazing_1610 — 16 days ago

Another 18LoH Doc is Here, Qiu Yinong vs Feng Qirui doc - made by NotKnowninHere

This feat covers Qiu Yinong's exceptional strategy, thinking, foresight and deception along with Chen Ran's exceptional foresight, which helped in Feng Qirui getting killed by his own Team Leader Yue Guanshan

Qiu Yinong vs Feng Qirui

Ive also included a timeline graph made by NotKnowninHere on how Qiu Yinong combined her skill with Urd's fate manipulation.

The basic sequence of events are as follows

  1. Deducing the painting's mechanism in Room 508

  2. A skill showdown with Wheel of Time and Hate Sea Clear Sky

  3. Urd's interference causing a timeline reset with retained memories, but also increasing Qiu Yinong's precognition time to 35 mins instead of the normal 5 mins. This increase is due to Chen Ran's use of Eternal Kingdom from the outside at the perfect time, anticipating in advance Qiu Yinong's strategy

  4. Feng Qirui realises he is in Qiu Yinong's precognition vision and tried to make its result null

  5. The minute Urd's reset takes place, Feng Qirui and Qiu Yinong realise the missing time, and Feng also deduces Qiu Yinong's 3 Hearts Unification

  6. Using Skuld's future manipulation, countless timelines of future are created. Qiu Yinong tries tricking Feng Qirui into believing she is doing all this to trick a lie out of him.

  7. Qiu Yinong actually tries using these future timelines created to create infinite time for herself, to gain enlightenment of mind. This will force Yue Guanshan from ourside to interfere. Combined with Chen Ran's threat from outside, the situation becomes like this

Either kill Feng Qirui and prevent Qiu Yinong from gaining infinite time, or leave as is which will make Qiu Yinong get enlightened and will only make situation harder for Feng Qirui and Yue Guanshan anyways

So Yue Guanshan has to kill Feng Qirui

  1. Feng Qirui's last hope is to try convey Chen Ran and Qiu Yinong's real motive to Yue Guanshan for him to take advantage of. But Qiu Yinong had anticipated this and had led Feng Qirui to wrongly assume the duration of Wheel of Time

Feng Qirui gets attacked by Yue Guanshan in every timeline before FQ speaks, only to get reset back to 5 mins ago by wheel of time..

This leads to Feng Qirui getting completely mentally exhausted once all those attacks accumulate, leading to his death.

The main take away point is, Qiu Yinong foresaw the development of this battle mostly and Chen Ran foresaw this entirely.

u/Simply_Amazing_1610 — 18 days ago

Chen Ran's True Self Conflict and 21 Player Gui Yu Reasoning Feat Doc is here!

The attached image is the summary of the doc. I'll attach the drive link for the doc for this reasoning feat. Do tell me how impressive do u think this reasoning feat is for those who know context

Chen Ran's Reasoning Feat

u/Simply_Amazing_1610 — 19 days ago

I may have underestimated Shu Renjun, Omniscient, Omnipotent, Chen Ran and Future Chen Ran

Ok the title is absolutely a parody of Ancient End's post 3 days ago but I nave been rereading this instance completely and there are soo many things we ALL have missed on our first read. It needs future knowledge to get how complex the entire Instance was.

First Shu Renjun. He completely outplayed every one of Lin Xuan's traps through his busted foresight, used Lin Xuan to make/break but not actually break 2 seperate Gui Yu's related to his identity, anticipated Evening Breeze's involvement and made it so that even he cant interfere w Shu Renjun's preperations, mf comprehended Unity of Heaven and Man inside the dungeon (we've only seen CR till now randomly power up in dungeons).. Now I scale him soo much higher than DiWu Zeyi (mid diffs DiWu Zeyi imo)

U ppl are underrating Shu Renjun cuz u dont understand the extent of his schemes and contingencies...

Next, Omniscient. I lowk thought this bumass was a fraud. Nah Im sorry my highness, I didnt know u planned the entirety of Hua Changsheng instance, esp hua and Shu renjun on the same dungeon. Both have same expertise over common sense deception, shu also excels in emotional manipulation, both have the fckin same backstory but different outcomes, both part of the whisperer alliance, both obsessed with rules but in a diff way(this makes the instance literally home ground for shu) just to drive CR into a corner.

She also designed CR to be overwhelmed with information and paranoia. Holy shit there is soo much info that I also had to summarise summaries like 3 times for me to understand. This involves Chen Ran deducing the nature of 10 Star battle while having never met them or known them, from like 60 diff info points with conflicting conclusions and MF Chen Ran was soooo close to the true nature of the conflict. This CR mf is unreal

The author is a genius tho, like these schemes in shu renjun instance can only be understood if u have caught up with CR's tomb arc. He had planned it all along damn.

And then comes Future Chen Ran, making one move and providing many advantages. The gui yu CR uses by the end of the instance to activate EK was absolutely intentionally made by Future Chen Ran.

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

My work on the doc has been going on steadily. But I found Chen Ran's reasoning so impressive that i went on a tangent and made a doc within that doc for CR's reasoning. This is a sneek peek on sum of the reasoning going on. do keep in mind at the same time parallely he was reasoning out the mind cutivation method for Supreme goodness and also on how to kill Shu Renjun

Dw the above and below charts intersect after further reasoning, and thus the true nature of absolute defense and Future Chen Ran's Gui Yu will be revealed.

u/Simply_Amazing_1610 — 20 days ago

On the topic of scaling Western SCD Characters, and a Deadline for me

You guys are doing a very good job. We really need more variety in SCD medium. All of them dont need to be Top Tiers at all, hell majority of the enjoyable works have characters with mid tier intelligence..

But Im also seeing pushback against Chinese WN characters, even by those who scale eastern works.. I've decided to work on a major project

I'm gonna release an in depth analysis on Chen Ran's Double Kill Strategy and release it as a doc. My earlier summary was not enough now that im rereading the wn.

New additions would include

  1. The framework for the strategy that was made by Chen Ran even before meeting the dungeon boss herself

  2. A reasoning chain that led Chen Ran to deduce the unbreakable Gui Yu his future self had left him to use(which also involves deducing the basics of the True Self player's conflicts and the pawns moved by them) , which is needed to make that 1 hour constraint.

3.An in depth analysis of the mental states of Hua and Shu Renjun and how Shu Renjun wasn't completely emotionally manipulated by Chen Ran (that part was wrong in my summary)

  1. An explanation of all the possible combinations of Lin Xuan's skill, Chen Ran's skill and Qiu Yinong's skil and how Hua had made multiple contingencies against in detail

  2. A Timeline of the events that took place in that 1 hour in brief

  3. The insane foresight of Chen Ran in that strategy in detail, along with diagramatic representations hopefully

  4. Analysis of strong and weak points in the strategy, the layering of it behind multiple misdirections

You can expect this doc next sunday. I'm making the post to motivate myself towards a deadline. Hopefully I can achieve that deadline and scale ma goat Chen Ran to his rightful tier.

u/Simply_Amazing_1610 — 22 days ago
▲ 32 r/EighteenLevelsOfHell+1 crossposts

Chen Ran's strategy is very underrated! A summary of his strategy against Shu Renjun and Hua Changsheng

So the given summary is very simplified and not suitable for scaling, because it doesnt include the adversity Shu Renjun provides as a char with his exceptional intelligence, Nor the context with Lin Xuan and his skill.

To scale accurately, you defo have to read the wn. Only then you'll get to see Lin Xuan's character slowly get manipulated by Chen Ran behind the scenes, the combination effects of Lin Xuan's "Magic Cube World" and Qiu Yinong's "Wheel of Time" skills. And Shu Renjun is also a char who scales very high, by intuition I scale him above Fang Yuan in methodology but I'm not a 100% sure.

The Strategy is as follows

  1. Chen Ran anticipates in advance Shu Renjun and Hua Changsneng allying. With Hua Changsheng's skill and dungeon design, along with Shu Renjun's intelligence, Chen Ran can really die.

He anticipates this as soon as he completes Shu's game with Rules and Regulations, thus pre emptively using Eternal Kingdom to ban their skills for one hour. This inevitably leads Hua and Shu down the path Chen Ran anticipates

(That Hua will design a dungeon that will prevent CR from using EK again, That Hua's game might make participants join in as pairs, that Hua as the creator can participate herself unlike for other's games, that it would counter Lin Xuan's skills with hidden rules[cuz Hua knows Lin Xuan's skills], etc..).

  1. He starts laying down the foundation for manipulating this entire situation, by making both of them emotionally charged.

Chen Ran has already deduced Hua's weakness through the dungeon's plot which he had deduced earlier by observing the puzzles themselves. Thus he makes her angry by taunting about her killing her fathers.

He starts talking about his life to Shu Renjun, observing his microexpressions to weave a story of Shu Renjun's abuse from his mother(he is simultaneously weaving this story as he sees Shu Renjun's microexpressions), using his prior experience as a novel writer. He comes very close to truth, in spite of not even knowing who Shu Renjun is a day before, and negates Shu Renjun's ideology by berating him and his decisions.

  1. Then he starts manipulating Lin Xuan. He points out how stupid Lin Xuan is, using barbed words that denote he is only alive due to his skill, which has been building up throughout the instance and makes him want to prove himself. This also makes him understand Chen Ran's motive of using his space skills but not killing him. This also plays a role later on.

  2. Seeing the uniquely designed Red light Green Light game in the game Hua created after entering it, Chen Ran deduces that Hua's fathers were a chimera and deduces the solution to the instance. He also foresees the trap Hua has laid already. The trap being to let Chen Ran and Qiu Yinong participate first but get frozen as part of the game. Thus when Eternal Kingdom (chen ran's skill runs out), she can instantly use her skill and trigger the win condition, killing everyone.

Chen Ran also knows Hua knows Lin Xuan's skills, thus foresees all the extra rules she has implemented secretely to prevent them from clearing the game before eternal kingdom runs out

Chen Ran then openly states out his deduction of the dungeon plot and how to solve this dungeon puzzle (excluding hua's traps) to everyone, pushing Cui Yu to promise to go on a suicide attack against Shu Renjun.

  1. Chen Ran and Qiu Yinong succesfully solve the puzzle hidden within this game, cooperating without uttering a word nor seeing each other due to each having a perfect characterisation of each other, and getting frozen in hua's trap willingly to give hua a sense of incoming victory.

  2. Chen Ran, just by showing some killing intent to Lin Xuan, nudges him to use his skill first to slow down hua changsheng. Lin also uses other spaces qiu yinong's wheel of time to try to kill Shu and Hua changsheng. This involves Lin Xuan formulating four different set of plans, which were all anticipated by Chen Ran as soon as he entered this game.

But Shu also foresees CR's test to Lin Xuan, thus uses no distance to warn Hua of CR's plans with Lin Xuan(all the ways Lin Xuan can use to kill Hua, through a combination of Lin Xuan and Qiu Yinong's skils). This can be equated to CR and Shu Renjun playing a chess game of who foresees the other's actions to the best. Shu doesnt care for his life but wants to kill CR to prove his ideology as the right one (a result of CR's emotional manipulation and Cui Yu's proclamation).

  1. CR's game with the pawn lin Xuan involves so many moves, all of which was to distract Shu from the fact that the very act of playing this game was CR's original trap to double kill Hua and Shu. Shu's communication with Hua was forseen by Chen Ran. [By trying to play this game of who anticipates the other's action farther, Shu Renjun falls into Chen Ran's Trap]

  2. Chen Ran uses QY''s ability's withdrawal's side effect. It causes everyone to recieve the previous loops's memories. The prev loops involved CR nudging Lin Xuan to move against Shu with 4 different possible plans, all of which was communicated with Hua by Shu every loop. This communication through no distance ability, repeated over 16 loops mentally incapicates both upon all the memories returning, with CR being able to escape due to his very limited amt of moves and indirectly nudging everyone outside those 5 mins of looped time.QY escapes due to her being frozen in the trap with CR and Lin Xuan has different space versions of him to replace him.

-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×

So a brief on why this strategy is super awesome

  1. Efficiency : CR had made a total of like 5 moves. He was required to make these less moves to escape the cognitive overload after Qiu Yinong's skill ends. With this he not only clears the instance, gets Lin Xuan into his team firmly and saves himself and Qiu Yinong, but also kills Hua Changsheng( the dungeon boss) and Shu Renjun at the same time.

  2. Risk Management and Multiple Win cons : This strategy literally doesnt have any risk. Lin Xuan can't betray cuz Cui Yu is going on a suicide attack against Shu and Hua is the dungeon boss, and he isnt smart enough to defeat the dungeon boss on his own. Even if Shu knows the plan, all he can do is not say the plan to Hua, which will make Hua lie and get killed by Lin Xuan and QY's skill combo, while also killing Shu Renjun with Cui Yu or with Lin Xuan's skill again

  3. Formulation of this Strategy within such short of a time, and manipulating events to make this strategy possible. And formulating this strat involves some really intense calculations on his part

-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×

Now lemme also describe the skills just to let u know the cognitive load required in calculating this metaphorical game of chess

Qiu Yinong's Wheel of Time : can rewind time by 5 minutes, which creates a branching timeline from the original one. Can be used repeatedly to create a 5 min loop. At the end of this rewound 5 mins, or after withdrawing her skill, all the rewound members gain the memories of the other timelines of looping. Cannot bring back the dead.

Lin Xuan's Skills : Creates 6 different spaces, copying the currently occupied chamber. Think of these as parallel universes 2 spaces have slower timeflow than the normal ones 2 spaces have normal timeflow 2 spaces have faster timeflows than the normal ones

All people and objects, along with their skill abilities and personalities are replicated. Lin Xuan can transport himself or others across these different spaces. Lin Xuan can foresee the future with the actions on spaces with faster timeflow. Clearing a game or dungeon in one space counts as a clear in all spaces. Can eliminate Lies from anyone, etc..

And Hua was able to counter these with secret rules such as

1.Independent Clearance : Simply put, if there are two Chen Rans in the same space, and the first Chen Ran clears the Wooden Figures Game, then the second Chen Ran cannot continue to participate in... the Wooden Figures Game in that space

  1. Furthermore, the consciousness of the first Chen Ran who clears it will not return to his body but will remain in a state of chaos. His consciousness can only return to the dungeon's third secret chamber after all other surviving players in that space have participated in the Wooden Figures Game, or if only one non-clearing player remains and is singled out

  2. Mandatory Participation Mechanic : within two hours, if there are two or more surviving players besides the cleared player, two of them must be forced to participate in the next round of the Wooden Figures Game.

  3. When the total number of corpses and living people is less than six, the consciousness of the cleared player will also remain in a state of chaos. Chen Ran and Shu Renjun both foresaw all this btw.

u/Simply_Amazing_1610 — 1 month ago

No, First Saint / Chusheng isnt your average planned it all along merchant

Ive seen people falling into this misconception. No, First Saint/ Chusheng/ Tianyi Tian isnt ur traditional, I planned this story all along merchant.

Now, what do I mean by Planned it all along merchants?

Characters who are revealed by the narrative to have planned parts of the said narrative, often used as a surprise plot twist. Eg of such characters include chars like Adam from Lotm, Limitless from RI, Aizen from Bleach, etc..

No, this isnt a bad thing, and yes, parts of the plan's mechanism can be shown onscreen for all above mentioned characters. But still majority of their plans are exe cuted offscreen.

What's the problem with I planned it all along merchants?

We readers really dont know the extent and process behind their plans. We dont know if they planned the individual elements, or the whole, or where it would fail. We cant limit test the plan, so we usually scale it to the highest interpretation possible.

What's different with First Saint?

First Saints entire sets of plans become the worldbuilding for this wn. With Lu Yang's ability to regress, he constantly limit tests First Saints plans, thus the audience can know the extent of these plans, their weaknesses and strengths. The side stories also gave us the method behind these plans, and in story we observed his contingencies and all his possible moves

Thus scaling his planning feat is rather more accurate than traditional planned it all along merchants. I hope more works do go behind the processes of plans and strategies..

u/Simply_Amazing_1610 — 1 month ago

So actually Nascent Soul Pill plan is part of multiple schemes. Im summarising this crudely cuz its dispersed among 100s of chapters

  1. Originally, Dan Ting wanted First Saint to not ascend further on the Other Shore, so he created a recipe to make this Nascent Soul Pill in the Underworld. He named it Nascent Soul Pill to make people fight iver it and used his reputation as the Lord of Pill refinement to make various faction believe in the feasability of this plan.

He specifically contacted Mana Path Dao Lords, among whom some had recently reached Underworld to get resources for its refinement. The Dao Lords agreed to this and have been sending materials for it.

He made it so that his Junior Brother Dao Tianqi can deduce his plan to create this pill without alerting the First Saint (I forgot the exact methods).

He then proceeds to decisively kill himself because he anticipated that First Saint might control him using names, he also leaving a method for someone else to temporarily assume his identity to refine this pill, while also ensuring that the First Saint's killing move with "Fixed Number"[which prefixes the destiny of a target] can be evaded by shedding this identity.

He also made clues in the overworld to point toward Nascent Soul Pills, but have Life and Death Reincarnation pill there, which can help one enter underworld and also acts as an id card which could make the brothers recognise that the holder of the pill is part of his plan

  1. Dao Tianqi's original plan wih the Underworld was to make it like another Other Shore like First Saint has done, so that more Dao Lords can be supported. This was detected by First Saint and the Dao Lords of Other Shore, who made Dao Tianqi undergo an eternal slumber.

Dao Tianqi knowing he might be targeted, prepares a contingency in [Remnant Conciousness of Celestial Beings] to get back to his underowrld position when he could. Also made it diagrams of the Underworld so whomever visits this place and triggers his consciousness can also help him in the Underworld, due to the valuable stuff there (Void stones)

After awakening, he proceeds to obfuscate Underworld's operations to the First Saint, trying to make him beleive that he was elevating his position but instead refining this pill.

He chooses a candidate to use Dan Ting's identity to refine the pill, while also making arrangements to share his wisdom light, which Dan Ting had foreseen he could due to the Names.

  1. World Honoured One always was vary of First Saint actually turning hostile (He was their Master who was v friendly and supportive w them).

He had already planned on proving the Heterdox Dao of Karma through the use of City Wall Earth Fruit Position, which essentially lets him travel back in time to tranfer information or items, but he can't modify much at all.

He also does this as a way to curry favor with First Saint, who holds the Dao of Time by stabilising the River of Time with Karma, but secretely make it so that First Saint would take time to detect what had changed in the Karma/ Past

He had always anticipated betraying First Saint, so he had acted out specific scenes in the past, which can instead be used to exchange information and items. This was also known to Dan Ting, Dao Tianqi and Heaven Mending Defect (His 3 Junior Brothers). Thus they would leave contingencies too, deducing each others plans because they had characterised the other so well.

He also only ascended to 2nd layer of the Other Shore and reegularly makes contact with Mortals to descend his consciousness thru a special technique. This prolonged contact makes others think that since he can't ascend, he is just playing with the mortals, but the World Honoured One has been doing this to conspire in the Mortal World in secret and exert larger influence in the world cuz he is closer (lower in status)

He also made sure to get the role of Gatekeeper of the Underworld after Dao Tainqi slept, so that he can one day allow Dan Ting or his conspirator to enter the Underworld without alerting First Saint

  1. Heaven Mending Peak was currently hidden in the seal of Ancestor Dragon, hollowing out the base of The Other Shore upon which all Dao Masters/ Nascent Souls derive their status from.

He had made sure to hide from First Saint only by using the Dao of Yin which he loots at Si Sui's legacy.

Also anticipates that Dan Ting might need someone to transfer the Nascent Soul Pill to the Other Shore for it to take its effect. But he cannot interact with anyone, or else he will be discovered.

So he leaves a smokescreen legacy in the Chusheng Sect, which appears as a inheritance ground on the outside, but can be used as a method to contact his true body at the base of the Other Shore.

He also, before saying his final goodbyes to the World Honoured One in the past, gets an item of protection from the World Honoured One, but this scene can also be used to alter past and get the Nascent Soul Pill instead, which he can transfer to the Other Shore in present timeline.

  1. First Saint had unfortunately anticipated parts of their actions because he incited them himself, and had made a comprehensive plan that is part of Contingency 2 of The Soul Transformation Ascension Plan. I think it needs a seperate analysis from this.

Amitabha! Join the Pure Land and escape worldly sorrows thru reverence to the Buddha and his scriptures

u/Simply_Amazing_1610 — 2 months ago

The hype is completely real, and surprisingly, the last arcs had soo much great writing it literally looks like a different wn compared to the first quarter. But the author nailed the ending and Lu Yang has proved himself to be a very good schemer even apart from his Book of 100 Lives.

The writing was soo cathartic with the First Saint and Lu Yang's fight, where not only their cultivation and schemes were in clash, but ultimately their philosophies too. I surprisingly got attached to this MC.

The initial readers would only see the MC Lu Yang as the perverted idiot carried by the Book of 100 lives, but his character development goes thru so many stages in a subtle manner, from a naive guy to a ruthless evil person who is slowly abandoning any sense of morals he has, until he meets good persons, learns the truth of the world bit by bit, starts to get attached to people and the world itself, and alas use his connections to further his dao and strengthen his dao heart, acknowledging his hypocrisy but retaining his humanity and his attachment to this world and its people.

Now coming to SCD, they were right. First Saint Mid High diffs Ang Xiao overall, Ang Xiao Extreme diffs World Honoured One and Lu Yang gets ext diffed by Ang Xiao imo (tbh Lu Yang has insane advantages).There are many noteable character with their own schemes

So the most impressive schemes/plans for me were

  1. Soul Transformation Ascension Plan (including all 3 contingencies) by First Saint

  2. The Other Shore Eshtablishment/ Ancestral Dragon sealing/ Si Sui Sealing plan by First Saint

  3. Underworld Ascension Plan by Ang Xiao

  4. Karma Manipulation and Ascension (Including Nascent Soul Pill transfer and stuu) by World Honoured One

  5. Transendent First Saint Refinement Plan/ Saving the Universe with a Variable Plan by Wang JunPing

  6. 10 Year Distraction Plan by Lu Yang

  7. Transcendence Trap and Book of 100 Lives Spam Plan by Lu Yang - I mean its a really simple plan but needed perfect anticipation, reasoning and Disguise/Concealment

Need to analyse more to actually rank them correctly. I recommend every wn reader to try this wn, and those who are reading to not drop this, It only gets more Peak.

u/Simply_Amazing_1610 — 2 months ago