u/TheCigaretteFairy

Just a note up top to start: This is all just speculation and free association, making extrapolations based on what we know from the One Piece canon, other theories, and my own ideas. I'm just having fun. Do I think this is likely enough to be worth considering? Absolutely. Am I 100% sold and think there are no other possibilities? Not at all. That being said,

Introduction:

Hi, so a couple days ago I posted a theory about what I think is Blackbeard's true original devil fruit, which he's had and hidden since at least when he was on Whitebeard's crew - the Hito Hito No Mi, Model Geryon. Basically it would give him three bodies that can all exist in the same space at the same time, like the mythical Geryon, which then would be how he's able to control multiple devil fruits while hiding the true nature of his body.

So I saw another post last night about a somewhat hidden connection: Blackbeard's ship is called the Saber of Xebec, and Rocks's (AKA BB's father, Xebec's) sword was called Eclipse. That got me thinking, so I did more research on the Geryon of greek mythology (i.e. I read further down on the wikipedia page than I had before).

More Content of the Myth:

In the story of Hercules, his tenth labor was to steal the giant Geryon's cattle. To do so, he tried to cross the Libyan desert on foot, but became so frustrated in the attempt that he shot an arrow at Helios (AKA the god of the sun).

Helios, in admiration of his courage, gave Hercules the golden cup he uses to cross the sky from east to west every day. Hercules used it to reach the island where Geryos resided.

Geryos's island was called Erytheia, an island impossibly far to the west, nicknamed the Red Island of the Sunset.

Long story short, once there, he killed Geryon's two-headed dog and his shepherd, Geryon attacked him equipped with three spears, three shields, and three helmets, Hercules killed him with an arrow dipped in the poisonous blood of the Lernaean Hydra, and he got the cattle.

This doesn't directly have anything to do with eclipses, but let's dissect it a little bit because a few parallels with One Piece came to mind right away.

Associations With One Piece

Helios, the Sun God: Obvious parallel with Nika. He helped Hercules get to the island because he admired his courage.

The island itself, Erythiea: Impossibly far to the west and only reachable by special means. Sounds like Laughtale. Nicknamed "the Red Island of the Sunset". Again, relevant to the Sun God, possibly a final destination for him; but also, the Road Poneglyphs are red, so that could be a connection too.

Geryon's three spears and three shields: mostly supports the idea of him (and the user of a mythic Zoan that represents him) having three bodies, as discussed in the original post: but I can't help but notice the parallel with depictions of Nika wielding a spear and shield.

This isn't anything crazy. Just maybe somewhat tangential parallels with Nika and Laughtale. But it's not like all of One Piece is based off Hercules, Oda-san just likes to take little pieces of inspiration from various myths and combine/remix them. IMHO there's strong potential for just enough of a link in the Geryon story to make it plausible that it's one of the many things Oda's working with. Which in turn strengthens the plausibility of my theory with regard to Blackbeard and the Geryon fruit.

How I Relate This To the Eclipse:

So back to the eclipse. I didn't find anything directly relating Geryon and eclipses, but allow me to take another speculative step and extrapolate a little more:

First of all, there is a direct connection with sunset. And "Sunset" and "Eclipse" do triangulate nicely with the concept of "Enemy of the Sun", and of course Blackbeard is set up as the primary foil to Luffy.

But furthermore, as I said in the original post about the Geryon fruit; the mythical Geryon was a giant, so if Blackbeard does have that fruit, his full Zoan transformation is probably a giant form. I imagine that the Yami Yami No Mi would be extremely dangerous in the hands of a giant because of the gravitational field it produces being compounded by the giant's size, possibly big enough to swallow an entire island - but with regard to to the eclipse, the name of Blackbeard's ship and in turn the name of Xebec's sword could be foreshadowing to Blackbeard's field of darkness becoming so big in his giant form that it physically blots out the sun in the sky, a visual testament to his full power.

That's It:

I'm not going to stretch the red string further and start to make predictions about the ancient gods themselves or the Lunerians or anything like that based on this association. I just think it points that much more strongly to the likelihood that Teach is rolling with Geryon.

But be on the lookout, if Laughtale turns out to be full of cows or there's a two headed dog guarding the One Piece, let it be known I called it here.

Gaban's attack on Imu as he was stalling for Luffy cut up an entire branch of the Adam tree. This wasn't just a highly impressive display of power, it was setup for a plot point.

Franky's new power source, Vega Cola, gives him a massive power boost as well. But again, this isn't just aura farming, it's setup.

Think about it for a second. What else could Franky do with all that power?

Answer: What he does much better than fighting. Build a ship.

After the battle, the Strawhats may have access to all the Adam wood they could ever want without having to harm the tree any more than it already has been. This is an extremely rare opportunity for a free upgrade for the Sunny sitting right under everyone's nose, and Franky now likely has the ability to make whatever changes he wants much faster - and much bigger.

So much bigger, in fact...

That Loki could fit on it.

YOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHO!!!

Okay hear me out. I think I got it.

This is kind of combining a few other people's theories about Blackbeard over the years, along with my own research.

The Yami Yami No Mi was actually Teach's second devil fruit. His first was the Hito Hito No Mi, Model Geryon, and he already had it when he was on Whitebeard's crew. What follows is what I think it does, and how it potentially explains not only his ability to control multiple devil fruits but also maybe every other weird thing about and surrounding him.

Background:

Geryon is a figure from ancient Greek mythology, a giant that was encountered by Hercules. Depictions of him vary across different versions of the story; sometimes he has one body with three heads, sometimes he has one body with six arms and six legs, sometimes he has one set of legs and three torsos, and most importantly, sometimes he is one being with three entirely separate bodes.

The Power:

If Geryon were represented by a mythical Zoan, the in-universe version of the transformation's main power might be: the user's consciousness controls three different physical versions of their body independently, and can have them either move independently in space or (in whole or part) occupy the same physical space while remaining distinct.

Basically, Blackbeard's original devil fruit gives him three bodies; but like Geryon, he can separate them from each other in space, or he can create the illusion that he has three heads, three sets of limbs, three torsos, etc. like Geryon's other depictions; or indeed appear to only have the one body by making them all occupy the same space.

How It Relates To Having Multiple Devil Fruits:

It's already been established in canon that Haki is tied to the mind/soul, but the devil fruit is tied to the body. We saw this when the Strawhats switched bodies. Sanji could still use his Haki in Nami's body; but Franky could use Chopper's devil fruit power in Chopper's body, while Chopper could not use it in Sanji's body.

So by extension, hypothetically, if Teach's "original" body contained the devil fruit that creates two other distinct bodies for him, those additional bodies might still be able to freely eat devil fruits of their own without exploding/dying, even if they're controlled by the same mind/soul.

How It Relates To Blackbeard's M.O.:

Blackbeard is all about psychological manipulation and keeping his cards under the table. It's not hard to imagine that he would use the Geryon power to keep all three of his bodies hidden in the same space so his enemies would underestimate him and be confused by his apparent abilities.

But more speculatively, I have another theory I posted a little while ago about Luffy's devil fruit, the Hito Hito No Mi, Model: Nika, which could relate to Blackbeard's behavior as well. You can read the whole thing here if you want, but the TL;DR for context is: the reason Gear 5 is limited by Luffy's stamina, despite the fact that it's really just a straightforward Zoan transformation, is that the Nika fruit has a will and goals of its own that are somehow opposed to Luffy and it's actively working against him.

For Blackbeard, if he has a similar mythical human model Zoan, it would make sense that his fruit would have a will of its own as well; however, in this case the relationship between fruit and user is different. It's possible that the Geryon fruit's will could be subtly manipulating Teach's mind and plans instead of trying to hide its true nature.

Subtle manipulation by the will of an intelligent Zoan could explain why he has been observed by other theorists as behaving like somewhat different people at different points in the story. It could also be the reason for his intense interest in obtaining other powerful devil fruits. It wasn't actually his independent idea to get the Yami Yami No Mi and subsequently the Gura Gura No Mi: it was Geryon's.

Other Things the Theory Could Explain:

- Zoro telling Nami that Teach is "they", not "he": simple. He and Luffy could somehow sense (using premature Haki, smell, emotional intelligence, feeling vibrations in the ground, whatever you like) that the singular "he" is actually an illusion.
- Multiple characters describing his body as vaguely "different": As above, it would make sense that in general, people who are highly sensitive to the presence of powerful fighters would know something is off about him, even if they can't put their finger on what because three bodies occupying the same space doesn't make logical sense unless you understand his power.
- His reactions to being hit: If he has three bodies occupying the same space and that are all controlled by the same consciousness, then every time somebody punches him, he feels it in three different bodies at once. That's why he has such intense pain reactions. Especially if the Yami Yami No Mi makes it even worse.
- His sleep pattern: It's rumored that Teach never sleeps. But if he had multiple bodies that he can hide in plain sight, it's possible that, at any given time, one body could be sleeping while the other two are awake.
- His teeth: As others have pointed out, Blackbeard's teeth appear in different patters at different points in the story. Sometimes he has a full set, sometimes three are missing, and sometimes four are missing. I see a lot of comments saying something like "this can't be taken seriously in a story where drinking milk makes you grow teeth back," but I don't think this is the kind of thing Oda-san would specifically include for no reason. I think this is a hint.
- His motif of threes: Three skulls on his jolly roger (and crossbones that could represent six arms or six legs), three pistols, a three-claw weapon. Self-explanatory.
- Shanks's scar: He told Whitebeard that Teach gave him the scar over his eye, and that it "wasn't because I was being careless." So how could someone like Blackbeard get around the combat prowess of someone like Shanks enough to give him an injury that severe before he had the Gura Gura No Mi? Yep. Because of something that would be completely unexpected, like sneaking up on him with one body while standing right in front of him with another.
- The fact that he got so much bigger after the timeskip: okay this one is by far the most out there, but I think his sudden increase in size, like the teeth, is another thing that can be handwaved away as just a funny thing about how Oda's world works, but is actually a specific clue in Blackbeard's case. More details below.

If He Has A Zoan Fruit, Why Does This Power Sound Like A Paramecia Ability?

I'm glad you asked.

We all thought Luffy had a Paramecia for a long time too. Turns out, he was actually unknowingly in his Zoan hybrid form the entire time. I explain this more in the same theory post I linked above as well, but basically his hybrid form appears human while having some of the properties of Nika, namely a rubber-like body, and he just stays in that form indefinitely; being able to do that, even without knowing, is consistent with the rules of all other Zoan users we've seen, both legendary and not.

The same principle applies to Teach. Just like how Luffy didn't realize his full Zoan transformation until he fought Kaido but had been using his hybrid powers for years before, Teach may not have fully transformed for many years either, and maybe still hasn't. Like Luffy, he may still to this day not even know he has a Zoan fruit.

However, if he does have a mythical Zoan fruit with a full transformation, we're going to see it at some point. And since the mythical Geryon was a giant, it's probably a giant form. It might not sound that interesting at first, but think about it for a second.

Imagine how dangerous both the Yami Yami No Mi and the Gura Gura No Mi could be in the hands of a giant. That could be the kind of power that makes people have to redraw maps when used.

Then, think about the Harley. It depicts Nika fighting against a massive, shadowy enemy. Imu is powerful and shadowy, but he's not huge. And it doesn't have to be exactly to scale, the point is just that the final boss is big. Maybe that's the true reason for the prophesy, which the Knights of God have repeatedly pointed out, that the giants are critical to the final battle.

And that brings me back to why Blackbeard randomly got huge after the timeskip. Like I said, Zoan fruits have wills of their own, so if he has the Geryon fruit, his increase in size could be a hint from Oda-san that the fruit's will is slowly but surely overtaking Blackbeard. He's giving in to the giant without even realizing it. The same principle applies here as does to the mino-beast guards from Impel Down, but this fruit is far more subtle and sophisticated. Geryon is biding his time, influencing quietly until his time to fully take the wheel is at hand. The same thing may be happening with Luffy and Nika, although of course Luffy will overcome his fruit's will and awaken the same way Lucci did because Main Character, whereas in my mind, for Blackbeard it's more up in the air as to who will dominate.

Plus, it would all be the perfect punchline to how Blackbeard has been set up so hard as Luffy's foil. Not only are they diametrically opposed to each other, but they both have legendary human model devil fruits with world shaping wills of their own that are diametrically opposed to each other as well. And they can both become literally larger than life.

So Does That Mean the Final Boss Isn't Imu Or Blackbeard At All, But Actually Geryon?

That, my friend, is only for Oda-san to say.

Thanks for reading. Let me know what you think.

Just this very night, after 3 years, I finally convinced my wife to start watching One Piece with me. She acted all haughty and unsure about it at first. I had to point out the important parts to pay attention to for the first three episodes. By episode 4 she was intentionally asking me to pause and play it when she left the room and came back. By episode 6 we were both crying literal tears together over Shushu.

Edit: I'm fully caught up by the way. This is like watch/read #2.5-3 for me.

Hi. Spoilers. I mean if you're vulnerable to spoilers probably don't be on this sub at all haha. Long post, but hopefully it's organized and legible enough to be worth the read. (If you don't need all the setup, skip to the "My Theory" section. TL;DR at the very end.)

So I was just thinking about Luffy's devil fruit and I think I've found a connection I've never quite seen discussed before. We don't know much about Nika himself. He's portrayed pretty ambiguously as a historical figure, with a lot of conflicting accounts that have clearly been over-interpreted across the centuries. There's really no telling whether he was a real person at some point, or what his alignment is on the good/evil spectrum. All we know for sure is he's a trickster god archetype and a harbinger of world-bending change.

We do know quite a bit about Zoan type devil fruits though, generally speaking. We know that they allow their user to transform, either fully or partially, into something different. We also know that they're unique in the sense that they have a will of their own; they're arguably sentient, just like the thing they represent, and unlike Paramecia/Logia fruits.

The way Oda-san writes transformations, whether Zoan or otherwise, usually follows a pretty straightforward rule: once the user has transformed, it doesn't require any additional energy or effort to maintain, that's just their body now until they say otherwise. They have to consciously choose to transform back. Take Chopper as an easy example. Without his devil fruit he's just a reindeer; his "natural" form is Walk Point. But he doesn't revert back to Walk Point when he's exposed to sea water/stone, asleep, or knocked unconscious. He only enters Walk Point as a conscious choice, and he almost always passively stays in Brain Point, a hybrid transformation, as his "default".

Side note: Logia users are different, their "elemental forms" seem to be more of a conscious usage of their powers than an actual transformation. Their "form" doesn't change, it just always has the "ability" to change its composition by an active exertion of their will. This would also be the case for many but not all Paramecia users. Hopefully that makes sense.

The only example I can think of that seems to truly stray from the "transformation rule" is Luffy; but the punchline here is that don't think he really does.

First of all, the fact that he's passively rubber, even when affected by the sea, can be explained by the fact that he's unconsciously been in hybrid form since he first ate the fruit as a child. Katakuri, as a counterexample, has powers with very similar surface level properties but is a Logia user, so his body would not still be able to stretch and distort if submerged in the sea like Luffy's can. In principle, Luffy probably could turn his rubber body off completely and return to his ordinary human form (Gear 0, if you will), but he doesn't know that and nobody ever explained it to him because the fact that he is a Zoan user is an extremely well-kept secret. This does follow the "transformation rule" precisely.

More to the Meat of the Point though (obnoxious double-pun intended), the Gears are all limited by Luffy's endurance. For Gears 2-4, that's easy to explain: those aren't transformations, they're all just fighting techniques Luffy has developed using the properties of the same hybrid transformation he's always been in. They put strain on his body and mind simply because he doesn't have unfettered access to all of Nika's abilities in that form, or because it's simply an overriding abuse of his stamina and/or Haki. That's why the more control he has when using them, the stronger he becomes, and the better he gets at freely accessing his powers, the less devastating the recoil is.

Gear 5, however, has always kind of vexed me. It should be different in principle because that's his full Zoan transformation, not just another fighting technique. Going by the "transformation rule", it shouldn't have a recoil; he should be able to just stay in Nika form for the rest of his life if he wanted to, just like how Chopper could stay in Heavy Point (full human form). Which (finally) brings me to the possibility I just thought of today.

The only thing that I can think of that would cause the Nika fruit to seemingly break the "transformation rule" that all other Zoans demonstrably abide by is the other rule of Zoans that I mentioned up top: they have a will of their own.

My theory: The reason that Gear 5 is limited by Luffy's endurance and has a recoil for him, despite being simply a Zoan transformation rather than a fighting technique, is that, in a way, Nika is actively fighting against him. Like I said before, Nika is a very ambiguous and poorly understood historical figure. We don't know exactly what his (read: the fruit's) goals are. But we do know that there have been many people over the past centuries and millennia who have used the fruit as a Paramecia and died without ever unlocking the full transformation or knowing it was a Zoan at all. And we know that "Nika the Sun God" only comes around as a harbinger of great change. To me, that screams that the independent will of this particular Zoan is consciously very selective about when, how, and for whom it reveals itself.

Most Zoan wills naturally wouldn't engage in that kind of sophisticated future planning because the animals they represent wouldn't have those kinds of thoughts, but a human model fruit absolutely could. I would think a fruit like that should be perfectly capable of observing the world and its user and saying "it's not time yet," or "I don't like you that much, you're not worthy of my full power."

So I believe that, whatever its true motivation is (I'm sure we'll find out more later), the Nika fruit independently decided to give Luffy access to the full transformation. In other words, when Kaido killed him, it had nothing to do with his own will or needing to die to activate it, Nika chose to bring him back to life and reveal himself because he said "I'm not done with Luffy yet".

But in that same vein, Nika still isn't willing to completely give Luffy unfettered access yet. I think the fruit had already chosen Luffy as the right person at the right time to be its vessel, but that doesn't mean their goals are completely aligned or that the fruit has fully accepted him as "worthy" yet. I mean Nika follows the trickster god archetype, so at least as far as we know now its motivation could be basically anything. The point is, even though he now has access to his transformation, Nika and Luffy aren't in alignment yet.

My Prediction: We know that Zoan users are often in a battle of wills with their devil fruit, even if it's subtle. The end result of this battle is user takeover if the fruit wins (e.g. the Impel Down guards), and awakening if the user wins (e.g. Lucci and Kaku). It rarely actually gets to that point (I guess many Zoans and their users unconsciously just kind of learn to live with their differences or lock into a stalemate or something), but I think the fact that Gear 5 drains Luffy's stamina and reverts back against his will is a sign that this is a particularly complex and challenging battle between Zoan and user which will necessarily come to a head and have a definitive conclusion before the story is over.

We're getting even deeper into speculation now, but I would bet that the Nika fruit is accustomed to winning that battle against its user. The times that Nika has appeared in history were probably examples of full user takeover by the fruit. This may even include Joyboy. If Imu and Joyboy were comrades (or even both pets of Davy Jones 🦜🐒) at one time, but then Joyboy was hijacked by the Nika fruit for its own mysterious purposes, that could explain the conflicted nature of Imu's memories of Joyboy, as well as why he's attempted to guard the fruit ever since. It could also explain why Imu sees Luffy as weak compared to Joyboy; he's still in the midst of that battle of wills, so the Zoan fruit's full potential isn't available to him yet.

The difference between them, then, the thing that makes Luffy the protagonist of the story, and the way he breaks out of this destiny business he's been roped into, will be that instead of being taken over by his Zoan, he will be the first user who has what it takes to overcome Nika's will and awaken. It could even be that this is what the Harley prophesy means when it says "the two shall meet" or whatever. Nika (the will of the fruit) and its user (Luffy) "meet" in the Palace of the Mind and have a final showdown for control.

So yeah, I guess that's what Gear 6 will be. If you made it this far, congratulations and thanks for reading.

TL;DR: The only reason Gear 5 is limited by Luffy's stamina - despite being a Zoan transformation, which normally wouldn't be limited by stamina - is because the will of the Nika fruit itself is fighting against him. And that's the same reason he isn't strong enough to beat Imu yet. He still has to resist its attempts to take him over completely and eventually overcome it and awaken.

Please tell me what you think or let me know if I've made any fatal errors. Or just be toxic and downvote because you arbitrarily disagree, I honestly DGAF.

Very minor theory on chapter 1190.

For those of you who have seen Gurren Lagaan, the eponymous mecha was able to instantly repair damage to itself using spiral energy, but only as long as it was combined; as soon as Gurren and Lagaan separated, the damage would return.

I think that's what we're about to see with Luffy. After Gaban reminds him of the stakes he's facing, we see him basically bargaining with his body to heal just long enough to finish this fight, then getting back up. I think next chapter he will get back into the fight without any sword holes in him, having used his Nika powers to reshape reality in whatever fuzzy way he does; but he will only be able to maintain the repair as long as he maintains Gear 5. As soon as he transforms back, all of that damage is going to return and his wounds will open back up, maybe even worse.

It's been well over five years of NC and I've gotten to the point where I can usually think of my old LO and ruminate either very little or not at all. So tell me why this happened today.

It was a very dull day at work, I was basically just going through hundreds of spreadsheets to manually change one variable on each of them. Super zoned out. LO randomly crossed my mind and the next thing I knew I was thinking about how things could have been if we had met under different circumstances. How maybe we could have worked despite our differences if she had given it a chance. All kinds of different counterfactuals. Just generally thinking fondly of her and our time together. At one point I realized her daughter is probably starting high school this year and had to stop myself from breaking down crying right there at my desk!

This lady took advantage of me, manipulated me, and treated me like trash for two years. I don't actually know for sure if she ever gave a fuck or if she just kind of thought of me as a funny idiot that would dance for her entertainment. We both had a lot of very serious mental health issues and traumatic events going on in our lives at the time, so separating imagination from reality with only my own perspective to go off of is literally impossible.

All I know is what she did, and the fact that I finally reached out for closure a couple months ago and she left me on read. I know she doesn't owe me anything, I don't owe her anything, nothing good will come of this train of thought, and these things so rarely even cross my mind these days. But for some reason that toddler in my brain woke up and started kicking and screaming about how unfair it all is.

So I guess this is just a reminder to myself and everyone here that nobody tells you when the circus is going to come back into town in full force, but it will always leave again if you don't take the peanuts and join in.

Set aside gear 6 for just a second, you hooligans.

So we've seen Luffy use Gear 2 and Gear 3 at the same time on Fishman Island. We saw him use Gear 3 and Gear 4 together on Dressrosa. Now, in chapter 1188, he used Jet Gatling while in Gear 5.

In a way I do believe that it's all just kind of blended together in Gear 5; because that's just his actual zoan fruit transformation, so naturally it's just far easier for him to access these techniques. Hell, going giant mode is literally just a full body Gear 3.

But I don't think the full zoan transformation invalidates the fact that at the end of the day these are just fighting techniques that Luffy has developed, and being easier to access doesn't change what he's actually doing. That'd be like saying Kaku can only use the neck cannon in half-form, and when he's in full giraffe form that's just what giraffes do. In other words, just because he's not turning pink or blowing into his thumb doesn't mean he's not using Gear 2 and Gear 3 in Nika form.

So that's why I think Luffy will use Gear 4 and Gear 5 at the same time at some point soon. And I'm really hoping we get to see the full stack of 2, 3, 4, and 5 one day. In my opinion, there's absolutely nothing that says a Booming Dawn King Kong Jet [insert your favorite punch here] is off the table.

As the title says.

I'm 32, she's 31. We met in my sophomore and her freshman year of high school. We were both in the same tight-knit friend group. For a lot of that time, I dated her best friend and she dated my best friend. I always knew I liked her and wanted to be with her. Not that I didn't love my actual girlfriend, but she was always in the back of my mind whenever we all hung out together, which was basically all the time. But there was never a point in that whole time when both of us were available at the same time, so I did my damndest to compartmentalize those feelings and largely succeeded.

We all broke up or otherwise went our separate ways around the end of school, as you do. LO moved across the country, neither of us are big on socials, I didn't have any contact with her or think about her much at all for about a decade, although she would occasionally cross my mind, and weirdly my sex dreams.

I did reconnect with my ex after several years though, and we rebuilt a deep and unburdened platonic friendship that continues to this day. That's how I bumped into LO again a couple years ago, she was back in town for one of ex's parties. We were by far the last ones to go to bed that night. Had a one on one conversation about everything in our lives for hours. Then a year or so after that, I saw her again at ex's 30th birthday. Again, LO and I sat in a corner and talked one on one for most of the night, barely even interacting with anyone else. Notably, both of our LTRs, who are now our respective spouses, were not at either of those parties. I think we both gave subtle and maybe even not-so-subtle signals of interest throughout both times; but who's to say for sure, I could have just imagined them on her end.

After each time seeing each other in person, we texted for a very short time but the conversation quickly fizzled out. I can't be sure why that was either, but I think whatever her underlying feelings were, maybe we both just had the good sense to shut down in the sober light of day.

I've experienced limerence twice outside of this, both in the long time gap between parts one and two of this story. Both cases were very different from each other and this one in the details. They were more intense, contiguous, and with someone who was otherwise not involved in my life at all. One was deep and tied to a very traumatic time in my life, and the other was short-lived because I successfully recognized it and nipped it in the bud. I had not been thinking of the person I'm talking about here as an LO until today because it felt different than those times, but I think she is. If nothing else just because of the sheer longevity of these feelings, but also the ambiguous nature of our interactions (or my reading too much into them) and her complete and utter unavailability throughout all of it.

For the past few weeks I've been posting advice and testimonies on this sub as a success story, admittedly somewhat unashamedly and arrogantly at times, but through that I've also been unraveling my own story within myself; memories I hadn't thought of in years, connections I've never made before, etc. I've come to realize that all of my LOs share a lot of qualities that are not shared by any of my normal romantic interests/partners, and I think today I realized that the ex and LO of this story may have, to a certain extent, become the archetypes for LTR and LO in my mind all the way back in high school.

Anyway, with that clarity in mind, I decided to just get it off my chest and tell LO. I've heard that a definitive rejection can break limerence and I've never had a chance to experience that before, and she's barely a part of my life at all anymore, so I didn't have much to lose. Earlier today I told her my feelings in the briefest, most direct, most low-pressure, and kindest way I could think of.

I immediately had 10,000 regrets and anxieties about it, and it ate at me for hours, but now that the nerves have died down I think I'm at peace with it. I made some opening small talk so I know she's there, but she has yet to respond to my confession. If she never does, I think that's fine too. I've already learned to take silence as an answer as loud as any other. I'd hate to lose an old friendship with that much history, but I'd rather be able to close that chapter of the book at this point.

I'm cautiously optimistic that this is the last piece of the story that needed to be untangled, and that now I can carry on with my happy and fulfilling current and future family life unburdened by a strange and thorny past love life.

Update: She responded! She said she had no idea and never felt the same but was glad I told her and no hard feelings. That's actually a huge weight off my shoulders. Couldn't be happier with that.

Also, friendly reminder to future commenters that I tagged this post NO JUDGEMENT PLEASE.

Hi hi.

YMMV and IANAD.

Introduction

I want to talk about a certain feeling you can get in the moment when you see a particular person for the very first time. This is something I've realized in my self reflections recently and I've seen others post about similar phenomena in this sub. I've heard it described as a moment where "the rest of the world disappeared," or "they seemed more real than everything else," and in my case it was a feeling like "time and space somehow bent around them." In all cases I think it's more of a mental feeling than a spatial or sensory one, even though it's often easiest to describe in spatial/sensory terms.

I'm sure it doesn't happen to everyone who's prone to limerence as limerence can have very heterogenous causes, but my hypothesis -- if you want to call it that -- is there might be a certain psychological profile that this is more likely to happen to, and hopefully being aware of it could be a tool for us to avoid limerence before it gets out of hand. The reports are all from my own experience, but hopefully you can understand or maybe relate.

I've had two LOs in my life, and this experience (which I will refer to hereafter as an Attentional Convergence Moment, or ACM) has only happened to me twice in my life, once for each LO.

The Case For the Reality

I want to be clear up top that what I'm talking about is not a "love at first sight" phenomenon, and I'm not inventing the memory retrospectively based on later experiences, as I will explain in greater detail now.

Both times I experienced an ACM, my reaction was not one of attraction, either physical or romantic; I just kind of had a moment of "huh, that was weird." The first time it happened I actually forgot about it for a while. That LO was a coworker and she genuinely didn't register as anything other than an NPC to me for several months before I developed an interest in her and then fell into limerence. That's what I mean when I say it wasn't anything like love at first sight. It wasn't intrinsically attached to a conscious desire to get to know her or be with her (although it was very easy to add that baggage to it after the fact). I actually wasn't even remotely attracted to her physically until later when I formed an emotional bond.

The main reason I'm confident that it isn't a retrospective construct of memory is because of the second time it happened. That time, right after my moment of "huh, that was weird," I had a moment of "oh shit, that was just like what happened when I first saw LO #1." The fact that I definitively recognized it in that moment is my own evidence that it's a real psychological state that points to a real brain state.

Speculation On What's Happening Here

So again, not a doctor and especially not a psychologist. Just a schlub with some interest in this kind of thing who's trying to iron out a concept.

It's pretty well accepted that the human brain can process a huge number of sensory cues very quickly in the background, and most of that never makes it to the level of conscious thought. We can evaluate people based on qualities about them that we could never put into words. That's why sometimes we just "have a bad feeling" about someone, for example, and the odds are typically better than chance that that feeling is right even though we can't say why.

I think the reason that some people might first experience an ACM for someone they later develop limerence for is because they subconsciously notice very innocuous-seeming details (perhaps posture, eye movement, style of dress, tone of voice, etc.) that point to a very specific cluster of psychological traits, which the brain then extrapolates out into a profile that it finds interesting, again unconsciously.

Then, if we're in just the right (read: highly susceptible) mental state and presented with just the right interesting profile, our brain screams "pay attention to this person!" and our attentional system very dramatically switches from "floodlight mode" to "spotlight mode", moving from a pretty even spread across our entire surroundings to intense focus on this individual. The reason that we then consciously interpret it as an unusual moment and give it the descriptions I listed in the beginning (and other similarly strange ones) is because, consciously, we don't know why this attentional reorganization has occurred; this person isn't doing anything unusual, there's no danger, we have no rational reason to be alerted to them, so we naturally make up a description and story that fits our confusion.

That's how we go from bored and unfulfilled (or whatever the catalyst mental state might be) to seeing a specific person to "the rest of the world disappeared" in an instant, before we even have an actual interaction with them.

Relating Back To My Own Story of Limerence

Once again, your mileage may vary. This is just my own experience.

So as I said, I've experienced an ACM twice and both times I fell into limerence for the person afterward. For the purpose of this post I'll try to keep the anecdote to a minimum and focus on the connection to the broader picture.

Notably, both of these women had a lot of traits in common that are not shared by any of my ordinary romantic interests, and that I couldn't have consciously deduced by looking at them. None of these traits are all that uncommon on their own, but taken together it's extremely unlikely to be entirely coincidental. I won't list all of them but a couple examples are being a single mother to a young daughter, having very male-coded interests, and having been a scene/emo kid many years ago.

I think the connection here is that the commonalities I've noticed between them are like third or fourth order traits that either arose from or helped shape the same pieces of their psychological profile that my subconscious was able to pick out at a glance from their behavioral micro-signals. I can only guess about exactly what those pieces are at a fundamental level (maybe dishonest self-image, heavily burdened by responsibility, high-performing autism with a manic streak?), but I now understand that whatever they are they're the flame to my moth. That is the exact type of person who I would die just to amuse and who will never give me what I need.

Both times I experienced limerence I was already in an LTR. The first time, it blew up my life and I was at my lowest point for years after. The second time, I still didn't have a full understanding of what was happening but I had enough mindfulness and motivation (coupled with luck) to cut off contact and stop it before it became unmanageable. I'm sure you can guess which LTR I'm now happily married to and which one is probably still trying to cast curses on me to this day.

The second time could have gone very differently if I hadn't recognized the ACM and had that in the back of my mind.

Conclusion

One more time; say it with me: YMMV and IANAD.

I don't know if I'm ever going to experience an ACM again, but I now have rules for if I do. As long as I'm married interactions are limited to what's absolutely necessary to maintain professionalism. If I'm ever unfortunate enough to be single again I wouldn't be quite as strict as that, but I will carry around a huge bright orange danger sticker and slap it on their forehead whenever they talk to me. Either way I will never look them up online and I will never do or say anything just because I think they might like it.

If you're susceptible to limerence (which, you're here, so.) I would suggest you watch out for an ACM, i.e. any inner feeling when you see another person that reads like "the rest of the world disappeared", "space and time bent around them," etc. It could be an early warning sign that your brain is gearing up to go into obsessive overdrive.

And finally, if you've experienced anything like what I've described, please share. I'm honestly doing this mainly to help myself completely think it through, but I would also love to hear other people's stories of this if they're out there. Or just tell me I'm crazy, I'd love to hear that too.

Regardless, good luck, be safe, godspeed. 🫡

This is probably mostly for those who have experienced limerence in the past and moved on, but maybe could resonate with someone experiencing it for the first time as well.

Just for fun and out of curiosity. Are there any weird little things about your LO(s) that you're just going to have rattling around in your head for the rest of your life for no reason? If so, what are they?

(Friendly reminder not to post any actual personal details about someone on Reddit. Just say what they are in general terms.)

I'll go first. A little context, I've had two LOs in my life. The first one was about five years ago, and lasted for a couple years, was super significant and formative. The second was about a year or two ago, and we were only in contact for about a month but it still way disproportionately affected me.

For the first one, I'll never forget:
- her birthday
- her one tattoo
- the colors she wanted to paint the headboard of her bed

For the second:
- her email address
- the color, make, and model of the car she drove

These weird little things that mean absolutely nothing to my life will be kicking around in my brain forever and taking up precious memory that would be better used on deciding where to eat or something. If you have some too, please share and let's be ridiculous in solidarity. 😄