The Josh Green Fit

I think Josh Green is being underrated in what he brings to the table, especially as much needed wing depth on the roster.

Let's start with some obvious things, Green is not worth the 14.7m he's owed this season, in the open market he would probably be a TPMLE player, but he's still a solid player. Having him expire on our books and then re-signed at a lower AAV would actually be a really good move.

This is all assuming we don't get LeBron of course.

Profile

Green is a wing. He plays the 2 or the 3, he's decently sized for both positions at 6'6 with a 6'10 wing span. His main value is his high level defense coupled with good corner 3pt shooting and not requiring the ball at all to be effective.

He held PnR ballhandlers to 0.81 ppp on 2.5 possessions a game, the best mark on the Charlotte Hornets and held spot up shooters to just 0.89 ppp on 2 possessions a game, the 2nd best mark on the Hornets team, he also held isolation scorers to just 0.43 ppp a game on a small sample though. These marks are all below league average, meaning that Josh Green is making life quite difficult for whoever he guards.

He had a DFG% of 39.3%, forcing players to shoot 6% worse than their season averages. Players he defende shot 13% worse from 3 than their average.

Green has had good results against a variety of star players he's guarded in the past 2 seasons, of the players he's guarded with more than 80 possessions, he's had great success against Shai, Haliburton, Cade, Brunson, Wagner, Mitchell and Maxey. He's been terrible against Trae Young, Tyler Herro and Darius Garland. (https://databallr.com/matchups/1630182/josh-green/1630245/ayo-dosunmu/2024/2026) if you want to play around with it.

Advanced Metrics

Josh Green has basically non-existent box-score metrics, he's like a super low usage wing player that's on the court mostly for defense. The majority of his shots are 3 pointers off the catch. Playing with LaMelo (one season starting the other off the bench), Green is shooting 40% from 3 on 3 attempts per game, which is pretty solid.

Now, his advanced metrics are actually quite good:

DARKO -> +0.4 overall, +1 on defense. Would rank 6th on the Wolves for the 25-26 season above Beringer, Randle and Ayo. Ranks 149th in the NBA overall and 97th in defense. Very good rotation player numbers.

RAPM -> +3.2, ranking 29th in the NBA overall, -0.5, 150th overall if using the last 2 seasons

On/off -> +10.7 this season, highest on the Hornets and +1.5 last season, both years making big contributions defensively averaging a -3.8 defensive on/off.

Basically while he doesn't have good PRA at all, he's consistently made his team better and ranked pretty well using advanced metrics. His advanced numbers have improved while moving to Charlotte and playing with LaMelo

Fit

Green is a good 3 for us. He would make alot of sense as a starter as a super low usage 3&D player next to LaMelo/Ant/Jaden/Rudy. He can guard some matchups that McDaniels struggles against and keep him as a roamer at the 4 spot for alot of his minutes.

He has weaknesses as a rebounder, but hopefully with LaMelo and McDaniels away from the POA it allows us to maintain our rebounding level.

Having Green gives us a good defender to allow Jaden to play away from the ball on defense and allows Ant to guard the 2nd best handler instead, which would really help out. McDaniel's rim defense numbers are comparable to Evan Mobley, so just having him help Gobert and Joan is a big deal and reducing the amount of time he spends on the perimeter would be helpful.

Green is a worse player than Ayo, but requires the ball far less and is imo a better defender while hitting 3s at a good clip. I think he would be the better fit with the starting lineup and allow Ayo to have the ball more when he comes off the bench as the primary weapon there.

Conclusion

I actually think starting Green isn't a bad idea, he fits well with the other guys on the court and has a nice skillset in that role, on top of that you can easily just replace him with Ayo in matchups you think is best to have Ayo in the starting lineup instead

Re-signing Green to a lower value deal for him to come off the bench once we secure our PF would also be great and would open up alot of flexibility with the roster. Even if we get someone like Rui, I think Green still fits better in the starting 5 due to his defense and usage.

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u/Vicentesteb — 20 hours ago

The Memphis Grizzlies have a million PFs on the roster

As of the trade they have Grant, O-Max, Cam Boozer, Kris Murray, Aldama, GG Jackson, Isiah Steward, Taylor Hendricks.

Surely the Wolves can get one of these 8 guys and it shouldn't prove that difficult for us.

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u/Vicentesteb — 7 days ago

The Forward Market

The Wolves will not have access to the MLE due to how annoying the cap and aprons are, so will most likely have to dig deep to find a good enough forward for the team. They must have something lined up as Grant Williams cant have much more value than Josh Green who we got

To me the team should be looking for a big PF that can space or a SF that can guard POA. These options would allow Jaden to continue playing POA unbothered without having Ant defend 4s or allow Jaden to move up to the 4 and focus on weakside defense.

I'll split the post into trades and free agents, trades will have to be Josh + TJ most likely.

Trades

What's very intriguing about the trade options is that most of them leave enough room to also sign a FA to the TPMLE, so you can add extra depth which is crucial.

- PJ Washington -

The OKC killer himself. PJ is a solid shooter, but is a great rebounder and defender with size and strength, was a huge part of that Mavs 2024 run and would thrive like he did next to Luka with LaMelo on the roster. Make's 19m so would have to be Josh + TJ, Mavs can almost definately get more. He would shore up all our weaknesses at the 4 and is a guy that can actually play 30 minutes in the playoffs which is huge.

- Derrick Jones Jr -

Similar to PJ, a guy that had tremendous success for that Dallas team and a big turning point of that defense. I think DJJ fits perfectly here, his blend of defense, athleticism and shooting is pretty good. One of the best POA defenders in the league last year despite the injuries and would properly allow Jaden to move to the 4. Phenomenal cutter and lob threat, especially for a wing, would again thrive with LaMelo's playmaking. Makes only 10m and is also an expiring so again maybe can be acquired for cheap but probably unlikely.

- Jalen Smith -

A player that reminds me of Naz Reid, although more limited offensive, is probably a better defender. A super balanced player thats good on both ends, is a solid rebounder, can play both the 4 and as a small ball 5 if necessary which is key in certain matchups or for stretches. Chicago is a pretty dumb FO, hasn't re-signed him to a new contract yet and loves trading with us for whatever reason, could be a more plausible pickup. He's also decently injury prone. Would be an incredible pickup for us at the 4.

- Obi Toppin -

Wolf killer, but also pretty surplus to requirement for the Pacers, he's decently injured and played the lowest minutes since his 2nd year. Obi is a high flyer, a good shooter and a good defensive rebounder. His defense is not great, but he does bring in some size and shooting which we need. Josh Green would actually be pretty good for them and both are similar level contracts with Obi having an extra year.

- Bobby Portis Jr -

The Heat are low on guard depth, but have arguably the best forward pairing in the entire league. I am unsure how many minutes Bobby will get next season. Great rebounder and shooter for the 4, but he's pretty lackluster defensively. He again does have size so that might just be the best play since he can shoot and rebound. Might also be looking for a starting role since he's never really had one in his career.

Free Agents

All these players have to be projected to get 5.5m ish as the max as we can only afford the TPMLE in any scenario bar dumping both Donte and Josh Green. This would also let us just keep Green meaning we dont need any other guards or SFs on the team.

- Dean Wade -

Brilliant for his price, a really nice defense PF but he can also hit 3s in the corners which is nice for the roster. Would really help alleviate McDaniels and Rudy defensively since he can also switch onto guards and smaller players. Cleveland is super hamstrung due to cap issues and Wade would probably like to start on a good team as well. His main weakness is rebounding, but he did spend alot of time in the perimeter. I haven't seen his help defense much, but it's pretty solid.

- Precious Achiuwa -

Decent depth piece, that just had a good season (relatively) on the dreadful Kings. He's mediocre on both ends of the floor but would probably be available for the veteran minnimum. Not much else to say about him.

Conclusion

Honestly, it might be cooked. Dean Wade is the only genuinely good FA we can target in our price range and he is going to be targeted by alot of other good teams for depth since he's a solid winning player.

The trades are all long-shots that would require a team to want Josh Green over their current PF and value the expiring.

It's looking like we are going to have to settle for some pretty dreadful options, guys that I didnt even bother to mention because they are pretty bad like Jovic or Bagley or Yabusele.

I dont see how we fill out this roster properly. Even if we run Jaden at the 4, that leaves us with basically no POA defense and then no one to properly back him up.

Very interested to see what we do.

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u/Vicentesteb — 7 days ago
▲ 275 r/nba

Terrance Shannon Jr, a member of the 2024 draft class, is currently the 4th oldest Timberwolf

Currently signed to the Wolves the oldest players in order are:

- Rudy Gobert (34)

- Donte Divincenzo (29)

- Ayo Dosunmu (26)

- Terrance Shannon Jr (25)

- Jaden McDanies (25)

Donte might not play all of next season, making TSJ potentially the 3rd oldest player on the Wolves to take the court.

They will probably sign some older veterans to fill out the roster, such as Mike Conley or wing depth.

Even then it's pretty interesting that one of the older players on the team is a guy drafted just 2 years ago.

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u/Vicentesteb — 8 days ago

This only really works if the trade is expanded no?

The TPE we got for Randle really isn't that useful since it hard caps us, so we can only get like a below 20m player with it or use the MLE to retain the ability to fill out the roster below the 1st apron.

The only way this trade makes any sense to me is if we either salary dump Donte to have "real" cap-space or if we expand this trade by adding the team we want to trade with and get something back for Randle.

There is no way this FO believes that Ayo/Ant/Jaden/Naz/Rudy with an MLE player off the bench is anywhere near good enough to beat OKC, San Antonio or even the Knicks.

The trade isn't officially confirmed yet, so it can be ammended into the typical giant post 2nd apron trades we've been seeing and have more teams and players be involved.

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u/Vicentesteb — 13 days ago

The case for Ja Morant

This is a player that has been mentioned plenty by the sub as potential target with national media speculating on Morant to the Wolves too. I think there are so many misconceptions around him and what he brings to the table as well as his potential fit with the rest of the team.

This analysis will start from the assumption that Randle is gone when acquiring Ja whether it be in a simple trade or a 3-teamer that has multiple extra parts and will discuss the team and fit accordingly.

I went in to this being pretty against Ja, but have changed my mind in alot of areas during the research and while I do acknowledge his huge problems, I think theres alot of good.

This will be a pretty long post, so yeah, apologies for that.

Overview:

Ja Morant averaged 19.5 points, 3.3 rebounds and 8.1 assists on 44.1% EFG% in just 20 games and 28 minutes per game. He makes 42.1m a year with only 2 years left on his contract and is 26 years old. Both DARKO and EPM grade him as a positive player despite his struggles.

Ja had a pretty brutal year last season and struggled the entire year to get anything going and stay generally healthy. His efficiency and ppg took a huge dip, as well as hitting a career low 23% from 3 on the year. His 20 games were a complete disaster this year and at his price-point, it was not acceptable the level he played at.

Strengths:

Ja is an elite playmaker, genuinely one of the 10 best passers in the entire NBA. He's posted an unreal 43% assist% over the last 3 seasons which is unbelieveable and has kept his TO% at only 15% which is also good. That's again with the quality of his roster eroding over the last 2 seasons. With that also comes him being a good PnR ball-handler, routinely improving his bigs and getting the most out them offensively, having Edey and Adams, two offensively limited bigs look very good. He was 4th in assists this season right below Luka, which is great.

Ja is a great driver of the basketball. Despite the waning volume over the years, his efficiency at the rim is still great and he has a very nice short-midrange game, capable of hitting floaters at a good rate. This part of his game opens up dump-offs and lobs to the center as well. Finally, his free throw drawing ability is crazy good. He's at 9 FTA per 100 possessions an has shot 80+% in the last 3 seasons, we absolutely need more free throws as a team, this would be huge help.

His ballhandling would be incredibly impactful on this team, another skill we sorely lack, he'd be able to take off alot of pressure off of Ant and run the offense when Ant sits.

Finally, Ja is remarkably clutch with a good playoff resume. He's hit alot of game-winners and has been a very good decision maker in the final minutes of close games. Another player that can rise to the occassion and hit big shots is great. He's had some fantastic playoff series with huge games. He's at 34% on 6 3s a game in the playoffs, which is a pretty substantial increase. His advanced metrics go through the roof in the playoffs, hitting high All NBA level of play for these stretches.

Issues:

His health is a disaster, not much to be said there, he's played 70 games in the last 2 years, which is bad. He probably was shut down by the Grizzlies due to tanking reasons this season but even then at most he would have gotten to 40, which is bad. His off-court stuff is bad too but seems to have subsided over the last 2 seasons.

Ja is not a good shooter, he's at 32% off pull up 3s which is actually fine, but at 33% on C&S which is horrible. He's fine coming off screens or off handoffs both at over 1.05 ppp which is great, but yeah the shooting is a big problem. While teams still guard him out on the perimeter, they do go under screens, which diminishes his athletic advantages and playmaking talent. It's not completely unfixable as his FT% is good, but yeah, we should assume he would be a non-shooter.

His rim volume has declined substantially. How much of this can be attributed due to a lack of rhythm and a deteriorating squad is debatable, but Ja was shooting 29% of his shots at the rim 2-3 years ago and now its at just 22.7%, which is a large decrese and his average FG distance has increased every year of his career. As of now he has alot of fat to his game, he takes alot of shots he is bad at making, which takes away alot of value.

Fit:

Ja's fit is very interesting and weird here.

On the one hand, he is great for Rudy, as we've discussed he's awesome off screens and off handoffs and can hit the roll man at a high level, which brings out the absolute best from Rudy on the offensive end. His high level playmaking allows for him to get guys like Jaden and Naz involved and in their spots while also keeping Ant fresher due to far less offensive load which is benefitial in big moments. He can also run the offense at a good level without Ant being on the court at all, which is something we struggled with this season as Randle was not good in that role. Defensively, Ja is actually fine, he's made the Grizzlies defense better every year he's been on the team, and is actually fine as a team defender and can hold 1v1 in certain matchups, he is not good, but unless its like Shai or Luka, you can't really hunt him either, which is good.

On the other hand, his lack of shooting makes it a questionable fit when Ant is on-ball, and it's also unclear how much Ant would commit to a full off-ball role with handling in moments and when Ja sits. Ja has also never played with another high-volume slasher, so the potential overlap could make Ant's life harder. The synergy between the 2 is what makes me the most worried about Ja in general, and while it's true that guards have it easier in playing "my turn your turn" basketball, it's generally better if they play off one another. Also how much would Ja enjoy taking the backseat, I think his best possible version for the Wolves is a guy who looks to facilitate more often than not and scoring what he gets given, probably at around 16-20 points and his usual 7-10 assists, but he might want to still be the guy on a team.

Overall, I think the fit issues are actually overblown, Ja's best seasons have come with a non-spacing 5 in Adams or Edey and has played with far worse shooting than he would in this Wolves team. He would work great with Gobert and would actually take alot of pressure away from Ant and the rest of the team, allowing everyone to be in their roles more naturally.

Conclusion:

Ja has huge health issues that could massively undermine the trade, however, at his price-point, there is no player in the league that can do what he could do for this team. The playmaking would be a huge improvement, the fact he's okay on defense and can let others like Jaden, Naz, Ayo play in more comfortable and realistic roles for them would be great. FInally, he would genuinely help Ant conserve energy which could see a defensive improvement for him.

The 3pt shooting is a concern and if Ant is unwilling to play off-ball then the pairing will not work out properly as Ja is not a good off-ball guy.

At this price point, he is the only 26 year old All NBA level guard you can get, if Ja plays more than 50 games, he would be a huge asset to this team and would be available for pretty much nothing. He is a substantial upgrade on Randle in terms of both talent and fit.

Finally, Ja has basically no value, so the Grizzlies might be willing to attach either a pick or someone like Scotty Pippen Jr to the trade which would be very nice.

TLDR:

Despite his flaws, I think Ja should be genuinely considered by the fanbase and should be pretty happy if it works out. He brings alot of qualities we lack to the table and at his price its just so tantalising to take the risk. One of the biggest high-risk, high-reward plays out there, but sometimes that is what it takes to build out the roster.

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u/Vicentesteb — 20 days ago

Some Star Player options the Wolves can look at

These 3 players are "Stars", but not good enough to be the 2nd option imo, which are more expensive and difficult moves. These are simplier and more available players, but obviously not as good as the top echelon.

Michael Porter Jr; 24.2ppg/ 7.1rbg/ 3ast on 55.5% EFG%. MPJ is 27, making 40m in the last year of his contract.A very interesting option as he’s just finished the only “first option” season in his career, but I still don’t think he’s 2nd option material.

On the positive end, his offense is really good. The 3pt shooting is really good, 37% on 9 3s a game and on the difficulty he’s at is pretty staggering. That is such an important skill to have next to Ant, would be a different world playing than playing next to Randle. He’s a fantastic rim finisher, shooting 80% last season and being in the mid to high 70s for most of his career, that is Ant level from inside the restricted area. At 6 '10 MPJ is a good rebounder, not too different from Randle and Naz for instance. Very good off hand-offs and screens, which gives Rudy some extra value on screens. He’s also added some isolation scoring game, at around 0.95 ppp which is pretty solid. MPJ also would fix some of the stickiness of the offense as he doesn't really dribble the ball and works hard off-ball.

However, the defense and handling is a legitimate problem. MPJ would work great as a release valve for the offense, but won’t really be able to self-create much and that becomes an issue of the roster when Ant sits. The defense is also far from good, he would have trouble guarding faster players and can be targeted in isolation by good guards. He’s not that good in the post and can sometimes ball watch off-ball making him generally just not very good. His size does stop him from getting completely cooked or lost, but it could be an adventure to figure it out.

Overall, MPJ would offer some great spacing and off-ball attributes that we really need. Ant/Ayo/Jaden/MPJ/Gobert is a really good lineup and he definitely fits more than Randle does. It’s also good to note MPJ has made his team better in the RS and playoffs every year of his career despite the defense. Definitely not 2nd option material due to lack of self-creation required, but is a great fit.

Jarrett Allen; 15.4ppg/ 8.5 rbg/ 1.7ast on 63.9% EFG%. Allen is 28 making 28m with 3 years left on his contract. The Cavs just got humiliated in the playoffs yet again and will probably look to do a huge shakeup of the roster.

Very well balanced player. Allen is a very good offensive center due to his hands and touch. He can catch the ball in multitudes of different playtypes and passing angles and is able to shoot free throws very well for a C, which was a problem all season for the Wolves. He’s one of the most efficient high volume screen setters in the NBA, at 1.14 ppp in the PnR as a screener. Also a solid post-up player, ranking in the top 5 for centers at .88 ppp. He’s also a good defensive anchor, can definitely lead a good defense and has good mobility, being able to play both drop and more switching schemes.

However, his rebounding is questionable, potentially an issue due to playing next to Mobley as he was much better in Brooklyn, but yeah, it’s a problem if he continues to average 8.5 rebounds. Closing possessions is such an important part of defense, and its been a few years since he’s rebounded at an elite level. Also for his offensive talent, Allen can’t really self-create either, so he can’t be the number 2 either. Finally, he can be kind of soft, he’s had some really bad moments in the playoffs and can sometimes struggle when it matters, but that is also endemic of the entire Cavs roster pretty much.

Overall, he would be a good fit for the roster. We do need a more offensive center to challenge OKC/Spurs, but does the gap in offense make up for the gap in defense between him and Rudy? At the same time the 8m difference in their contracts could be useful in acquiring another player.

Immanuel Quickley; 16.4ppg/ 4rbg/ 6ast on 54.1% EFG%. Quickley is 26, soon to be 27, making 32.5m on a flat contract with 3 years left, essentially meaning its descending.

Quickley is kind of the type of PG that people want. In theory, Quickley fits the bill as a PG that can defend, pass and shoot. He’s been at 38% on 7 3s for the past 3 years which is really good and nothing to scoff at. He has 6 assists with only 1.5 turnovers, which is 4/1 ratio another amazing number. He could probably get to 7-8 assists running more of the offense and playing in a better offensive system than Toronto as well. The defense is also not bad at all, he’s decently stocky for a short-ish player at 6’3, but defensive metrics rate him pretty highly.

However, Quickley also has several issues, first is that he doesnt have an elite skill, his shooting, defense and playmaking is all good and above average for a PG, but it’s not elite, which might struggle to translate in the playoffs. This brings me to my second point, Quickley basically doesn’t have playoff experience, which is a huge problem when building a contender. Finally, he can be injury prone as well, which again can cause issues.

Overall, Quickley is not a super flashy PG but has really nice skills that would be super useful in this team. The high 3pt volume and good playmaking are super important skills that the Wolves lack and being able to do both without being a defensive liability is a huge +.

Conclusion

While I do really like Jarrett Allen I wouldn't trade Gobert to fit him in, but would look at him only if we get a package for Rudy for other players we really like. MPJ is really good but is expensive, Quickley is worse but is easier to get.

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u/Vicentesteb — 1 month ago

Potential bench forwards/wings

Made a recent post on bench guards, and while again not the most exciting thing in the world to talk about, making good margin moves is critical for success in the playoffs.

This list is ordered alphabetically by team, remember every player has flaws and strengths.

Every player on this list should be gettable without requiring us to make out like bandits either.

The list:

  • Sam Hauser; 3 years left under contract, making around 10.8m which is a good number. He's also 28, giving him a few years before he begins to decline and we need to replace him.

He’s an elite 3pt shooter, has great volume off the bench at around 6.5 3s on 39%, which is great. Even better is his spot-up efficiency, converting at around 1.29 ppp, Ant, who is the Wolves best spot-up player is at 1.31 and is top 15 in the NBA, basically Hauser is a great player 1 pass away. His defense is also neutral and doesn’t really cause issues for Boston. His game IQ is also good, he never turns the ball over and while sure he doesn’t really pass either, that’s always a good quality.

However, that’s really it. His defense is fine but not a difference maker and he has 0 ball handling/playmaking capacity beyond swinging it to the corner if he isn't the one there. He just doesn’t run any other types of plays beyond spot-ups and the occasional cut.

Overall he would be a good addition off the bench, has good advanced metrics, can shoot the fuck out of the ball which is great now that Donte is out, meaning Ant and maybe Naz are our only volume 3pt guys. However, due to his limitations in passing/playmaking which is kinda a huge hole for us, he shouldn’t be a main target but a support player we should be happy with. 

  • Grant Williams; 1 year left on his contract, makes around 14m, is 27 years old and has currently finished the best season of his career with the Hornets.

Grant is just an incredibly well rounded player, he’s a good 3pt shooter, although not as good as Hauser for instance, but he’s a better playmaker, rebounder and defender. He’s not elite at anything but he’s fine/good at most things. He’s at 1.18ppp on spot-ups which is good not great. He’s at 2 stocks per 36 which is good defensive playmaking, he has some nice size and is decently athletic.

However, yet again that’s kinda it. Potentially bench players should be specialised and be elite at 1 skill instead of well-rounded, so while yeah he’s not bad at anything he’s also just fine at most things as well. Also him being a FA next year means that it might just be better to wait until next season anyway.

Overall he has good playoff experience, can defend, can shoot and can do a bit of everything. He’s a valuable bench piece, but at 14m probably makes too much money and due to how our contracts are set up it would be hard to get him. I also just like ex-Boston players, they are generally pretty smart players.

  • Jalen Smith; 1 year left on his contract, making just under 10, and is 26 years old. One of my favourite players, so you know this will be biased as hell.

Basically, imagine Naz Reid with less self-creation but more defense, that’s kind of who Jalen Smith is. He’s a really good 3pt shooter, 4.2 at 37%, which for a big man is crazy, last 3 seasons he’s at 7 3s at 37% per 36 minutes. He’s an above average rebounder. Positionally versatile being able to play both the 4 and the 5 at a good level. His advanced stats like his DARKO DPM jump off the page. The Bulls were 12 points per 100 better with him on the court than him off it. 1.19 ppp on spot ups for a big, is just nasty. 1.15ppp on screening actions, higher than Rudy Gobert btw and 1.14 in transition, 4th best on the Wolves. Just a super good offensive player that can also hold his own on defense. 

However, his defense is fine and probably above average, but that can sometimes not be good enough, especially to play the 5 seriously. He also has basically 0 playoff experience which can be a huge issue in big critical games. Health can be spotty, missing 20ish games every season despite the low minute load.

Overall, we saw the absurd value Naz provided versus the Spurs, having this kind of shooting from the 4/5 position for 48 minutes a game is insanely valuable. He would be an incredible pickup off the bench and give us a really good big rotation of Naz/Joan/Rudy/Smith. Just a really good potential 6-7th man for a championship team.

  • Dean Wade; the first actual FA on the list, he is 29 years old and just finished a 3yr 17m deal. Projected to make around 10m AAV, so super gettable depending on how we structure certain moves and whatnot.

Wade makes his living on the defensive end, he’s a really high level POA defender and a very good help guy. He is given the hardest defensive assignment for the Cavs on basically every single minute he’s out there and has given Cade absolute fits. He’s a good spot up shooter at 1.14 ppp which means he’s not a liability offensively. Just a good corner shooter. He’s made the Cavs way way better every time he’s on the court at an average of 5.1 points per 100 better over the last 4 seasons. He’s also a good screener to boot.

However, the rest of his offensive game is just meh, he can finish at the rim and shoot 3s but nothing else beyond that and at 29 it’s unlikely he ever develops past that. Furthermore, his health is pretty problematic, he’s good to miss 20 games a year, but then again his contract would be relatively small. Doesn’t have the most amount of playoff experience either.

Overall, Wade would really help with the non-Jaden minutes, he’s kind of similar as a 6'9 POA defender and can also shoot, this would help a lot in the playoffs when Jaden deals with foul trouble. It's never bad to have tall players that can shoot.

  • Derrick Jones Jr; 27 years old on the last year of a 10m deal.

DJJ is a terror on defense, what he was doing in the WCF on Ant was extremely impressive, that level of athleticism and defensive playmaking is genuinely rare to find and he’s shown it on the biggest stage by defending Ant, Shai, Jaylen Brown and Harden/Kawhi for an entire run. 2.5+ stocks per 36 is really good as well. Another POA defender is essential imo for a deep run.

The offense is whatever, nothing particularly good except his cutting, but we don’t really have anyone that can lob it like that so that talent would be underused on this team. He would probably get left open but he can hit corner 3s, so that could swing a series.

Overall, brilliant defender but maybe too defensively slanted with not enough offense. With Donte out and presumably Naz moving to the starting 5 our bench really needs offense, so again going for DJJ might not give us enough juice.

  • Sandro Mamukelashvili; 27 years old on a veteran minimum contract with a play option he’s most likely going to decline.

He’s a very well balanced player, he can shoot the 3 at a high level for his position, is at 1.17 off spot ups, a decent screener at 1.02, is good at hand-offs too. If anything the offense should also become more pronounced in a better offensive environment than Toronto. He is also very nice defensively, he hold his own in iso, can be a decent help defender and is a solid rebounder too. 

However, he also lacks playoff experience which is again potentially a big issue. Shooting 40% from the 3 in the regular season is not the same as shooting 40% vs OKC in the WCF.

Overall, another good player to bolster the bench and help out with depth. Having another big that can shoot this well and not get cooked on defense is a huge asset and well worth something like the MLE.

TLDR:

From this list Jalen Smith and Dean Wade are probably the 2 best player, both offering really important skills without gaping holes in their games. Both can offer an offensive punch off the bench and be useful defensively.

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u/Vicentesteb — 1 month ago

Potential Bench guard targets

Everyone has been discussing 2nd options ad nauseum since we've been eliminated from the playoffs, however, aside from whatever we do with Randle, depth is a crucial part of winning a championship.

These are 5 different guards that can come off the bench and contribute heavily.

  • CJ Mccollum; he had a great post-season run, being the Hawks best player, but he's an expiring veteran while the Hawks might want to still get younger, being an expiring he could potentially sign here in FA if we want, could also pursue a S&T, depending on what we do with Randle and Gobert's salary. A super cheap player to acquire, would be a really nice guard off the bench.

    • Mccollum can shoot, handle the ball, is a solid playmaker which would fill a lot of nice niches for us, his size stops him from being a complete liability on the defensive end and he can for sure hold his own. 
    • However, he would only be a good target provided we are just adding depth and he’s willing to come here for a good salary. If he makes anywhere near above 15m then it’s just not worth it in the slightest, moreso a break in case of emergency.
    • He also might just not want to play a smaller role considering he’s like the Hawks primary player so coming off the bench might sound super unappealing.
  • De’Anthony Melton; A super cheap UFA that is going to get around the minimum, maybe the TPMLE (5ish million).

    • Another of the off-ball types of guards which we are looking for, Melton is more defensive oriented. He can hit a 3 for the most part but most of his value comes off his great defensive playmaking, Melton makes all the little plays, can guard POA and is a solid passer and rebounder in limited minutes. A connective type of player that we can get for a veteran minimum.
    • His offense is not great, but even worse is his availability, that has always been his issue and why he has never really gotten a big contract anywhere, he can’t really stay healthy.
    • He would be a support type move, where you get him after you’ve made the big moves and he’s simply there to play spot rotation minutes at a higher level than someone like Jaylen Clark.
  • Ty Jerome; Advanced analytics darling, making 9.2m a year at 28 years old. Probably the best bench guard we can hope to get and one of the top ones in the league.

    • His offense is really good, he’s a high level 3pt shooter off the catch, is really good at running action and is a PnR maestro, ranking around Anthony Edwards (top 7-15) in PnR ballhandling efficiency. He would supercharge our bench offensively. Also he was stupid good (20ppg 6 assists on 62% TS) in the small sample he had this season being tasked with running more of the offense.
    • However, his defense is pretty lacklustre, despite being 6 '5 he can get picked on by faster guards due to his lack of athleticism, his rebounding is also not great which isn’t the end of the world but doesn’t help. His biggest issue is health, he’s really only had 1 healthy season in his entire career which was 2 seasons ago in Cleveland.
    • Ty is a perfect bench PG, making little money, providing some sorely lacking IQ and passing at a super low cost, as to whether or not the Grizzlies trade him is a different story.
  • Kevin Porter Jr; a surprisingly well rounded player and yet another free agent. He’s 26 years old and has had a really good season with the Bucks even if injured for stretches. * He’s another really good offensive player, running the PnR at good efficiency, 0.9 ppp which is well above average, he can score from all 3 levels at a pretty efficient rate and is a very solid playmaker, being able to pass out of all types of coverages. What really shocked me though is how good he is on defense, at 6’5 he is pretty athletic and can make plays on that end unlike Ty, he brings a tonne of value on that end of the floor. * However, Porter has dealt with injury struggles and might not be content with a bench role. He’s also not as explosive offensively like Ty or Coby or CJ, but definitely more well rounded. Lack of playoff experience is definitely an issue as well. * He might just be the odd man out as the Bucks will surely want to keep Ryan Rollins around and he’s entering free agency.

  • Coby White; Another free agent and player we looked at all season long. He’s a FA, had some good moments for the Hornets on their way through the play-in and is generally a solid player. Would work well on the offensive end but the lack of playoff experience, and defense makes him just a solid guy. Again if he’s gettable for like 10m a year, sure, he would be good.

Overall, I'd say Ty and KPJ are the 2 best guards we can get for our bench, KPJ is the most well rounded whereas Ty is by far the best offensively. In roles playing 20-25 minutes off the bench, both these players would be big improvements and could continue to play when Donte comes back.

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u/Vicentesteb — 1 month ago

AC II is guilty of many of the same things people criticise the RPG Games for

Let me preface this; it is okay to not enjoy the RPG games or to not enjoy the old games, neither makes you less of a fan of the franchise.

However, hating a game simply for changing or being different is not good, complaints should be about the execution of these changes and how this affected the gameplay and the games themselves.

I myself don't agree with everything the RPG games have done, but I've mostly enjoyed them. This is also not me saying AC II is a bad game, it's not and I've also enjoyed it. This is more so to point out the hyprocrisy of certain arguments.

Criticism 1: "They are not AC games"

This is probably the most common critique of the RPG games, especially Odyssey and Valhalla, AC II is no different.

You are an "assassin" sure, you have a hidden blade, a hood and you kill Templars, but that's it. Ezio is not part of the order until the very end of AC II. Ezio makes no effort to understand what it means to be an Assassin. There is no discussion on the Creed. Being an Assassin is not what you wear or what you do, its why you do it, its an integral part of Altair's journey in AC I. He is not an Assassin like Altair is, he simply has the same wardrobe choices.

The same thing can be applied to the Templars, sure they are guys that say they are "Templars" and the game says the same thing, but they are not. Templars are not evil charicatures that you see on sunday morning television when you're a kid, they do what they do for a purpose. AC II has no purpose, the Templars are not characters, they dont say or do anything interesting, their confessions are completely empty and devoid of meaning. They are just people to kill on a list. Nuance is entirely removed.

There is no difference between what Eivor does in Valhalla, with her being tasked by Hytham to kill members of the Order of Ancients, and what Ezio does in AC II. Yet Valhalla gets criticised for not being an AC game while AC II is not.

Criticism 2: "The game is dumbed down"

This is another common thing i've heard in regard to the RPGs, yet again AC II did the exact same thing.

In AC II depth of movement is completely removed from the game, because of the notoriety system being the only thing that influences detection by guards on the ground, you just sprint from A to B with literally no worry except maybe tearing down a poster every 30ish minutes. In AC I you have to pay attention to what guards are doing and if you're being observed or not due to how bleding worked in that game.

The mission structures are also dumbed down, every assassination mission in AC II is completely on rails, there is a specific path you're suppossed to take and the game makes it clear what that path is, there is very little player agency in how you approach them. Far too many of them play out like movie scenes instead of a video game where you have choice. There is clear contrast with how AC has just 2/9 scripted Assassinations. AC I trusts you to figure out what to do based on the information you gathered from your investigations.

The modern day also removes the optinality of sneaking around and gathering pieces of information, with AC II having a far more linear modern day that leaves no room for player agency. In AC I if you dont like the modern day you can go to sleep and that's that, players that interact with it get rewarded with some interesting information here and there. AC II removes all of that because it doesnt trust its own audience.

Criticism 3: Change of genre

The final real criticism I've heard is the change of genre into an RPG style, and once again that's the exact same thing AC II did.

AC II is an action game, Ezio is an action hero that goes through lots of cool looking set-pieces, more similar to something like the Uncharted series than it is to AC I. AC I is a stealth game, not in the way Metal Gear Solid or Dishonored are, but in its own way with the innovative social stealth system.

AC II has "side-missions" that add nothing to the game simply to behave more like an openworld game, a common critique of the RPG games is becoming like that to capitalise off the Witcher III. These activities are completely pointless and usually involve you beating up some cheating husband or doing a race. AC II does not contextualise why Ezio would be doing any of this during the pretty high-stakes duration of its plot.

Finally, AC II also removes the immersion of story telling from AC I. AC I did everything to make you not only feel like Desmond but that the Animus was reliving Altair's memories, that starts to get removed in AC II with a more "narrative" feel to the Modern Day and treating the animus like a simulation when solving things like 16s Glyphs.

AC II pushed Assassin's Creed from a game that critiqued organised religion, philosophy and the ideology of these 2 secret groups into an action game with set-pieces and black and white characters.

Conclusion

My point is not to diminish AC II, but to show that AC has always undergone wild changes in how the games worked and that is not unique to the RPG games. The same arguments that can be used to diminish the RPGs can be used on beloved classic games like AC II as well.

There are so many thins in older games, like AC II having every major historical event and person be a Templar or an Assassin with pieces of Eden, that would be criticised to hell and back if a game like Valhalla had done them. All this without stopping to think what it actually means for these games.

TLDR: Criticising games for flaws you can easily observe in games you like too is bad and makes no sense. You can not enjoy the RPG games without having to tear them down with poor arguments that revolve around you not enjoying change.

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u/Vicentesteb — 2 months ago

What are some of your AC hot-takes?

Here are some of mine:

  1. AC I is better in almost every way to AC II.

I know alot of people think the opposite, but after having recently replayed both these games I feel like its so apparent.

First, AC I has significantly better game mechanics, the parkour is more deliberate and responsive. The combat is more difficult but also more in line with the game wanting you to run away, not forcing you to play really defensive due to bloated HP pools for enemies. The way that crowd blend works vs the notoriety system was a huge downgrade in movement across the cities, with you needing to pay 0 attention to what guards were doing.

Second, the gameplay itself also suffers in my opinion, while the mission variety in AC II is good and we get some cool set-pieces, basically every assassination mission is completely on-rails and scripted, there is very little room to do what you want based on the information the game gives you. AC I through its investigations and open nature of the assassinations allows you to tackle them in any way you want, with players paying more attention having easier routes or more information. Only 3 assassanations in AC I are scripted being Talal, Maria Thorpe and Robert de Sabre.

Finally, the Templars in AC II are a complete shambles, misunderstanding entirely what their point was in AC I, and nothing suffers more from this than the confessions. AC II Templars have nothing to say, because they aren't interesting, they aren't complex, they aren't trying to help the world in a twisted way, they simply want power and control, devoiding them of anything to say or add to the narrative. They are just characiture villains that completely destroy the interesting nuance between the 2 factions in AC I and its something that permeates every game except AC Revelations and AC III.

  1. You can have a great AC story without Assassins.

While it hasn't happened yet in my opinion, as I'm not a huge fan of Odyssey's or Valhalla's stories, the point of the games is the Creed of the Assassins, that is their beliefs, why they do what they do and the contradictions/issues which arise in their fight with the Templars. That means that you do not need to explore the Creed from the perspective of a Templar or an Assassin, you can do it independently.

For example, for the vast majority of Black Flag, a game thats pretty much entirely about the Creed in a way no game has been since AC I, you are a bystander to the conflict, yet by putting the perspective of a Pirate and how Edwards interacts with Mary, we gain so much information about the nuances of the Creed. On paper, a Pirate and an Assassin are pretty much the same, but the purpose and the conviction they lead in life is what separates them. Edward's misunderstanding of "Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted" is fantastic and gives more depth to that discussion.

Valhalla also does something similar with some great codex pages and Desmond moments, but those are not central to the game and completely misable so that's why it fails in my opinion. In theory, a Viking could easily add interesting and diferentiating perspective to the Creed.

  1. AC's lore has been constantly retconned since day 1.

This is a criticism I see, especially of the RPG trilogy, but there has been constant retconning of the lore since the very beginning.

Things like the Assassin's pre-dating 1090, from AC II with the statues or AC Revelations when Ezio says his order has existed for thousands of years, are just wrong with the way that the order was presented to us in AC I.

Lucy being a Templar double-agent was something clearly added after the fact and not thought of in AC I either.

Desmond not knowing what Abstergo is in AC I despite the Farm sections showing us how he was raised and knew well what the Assassins and Templars were.

Retcons are not exclusive of the RPG trilogy and are issues that arise simply because AC I was not made as a game that would have a sequel, it was suppossed to be entirely self-contained.

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u/Vicentesteb — 2 months ago