Very tough ask, but is there any chance someone here (Arabic speaking) could count up the mysterious letters from Surah 19 of the Quran? I see so many contradicting reports on the number of times that the letters appear in this surah (all because of the code 19 debates). Would be very, very grateful

Title

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u/Western-Rush878 — 8 hours ago

In the Hadith literature we have two separate cases where verses of the Quran could only be found with one person and no one else. These involve the verses of Quran 9:128-129 as well as Quran 33:23. In both cases, the one and only person who somehow has these verses written down is Al-Ansari...

I find it highly unlikely that this is something that genuinely happened. That specific verses of the Quran weren't written with anyone else except for Al-Ansari, and not only that, but that this happened twice with the same person.

As a result, I have to ask: are there any scholarly works that talk about this, or reasons why someone might've fabricated such a chain of events? Could it be to elevate the status of Al-Ansari, or something else entirely?

Hadiths narrating 9:128-129

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4989

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:7425

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4679

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4986

https://sunnah.com/mishkat:2220

Hadiths narrating 33:23

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4784

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:2807

https://sunnah.com/mishkat:2221

In all cases Al-Ansari is the one who is mentioned.

u/Western-Rush878 — 5 days ago

Does nisa only refer to adult women, rather than females as a whole? Asking since reading Quran 4:7, it seems to imply that females of all ages inherit, not only women (uses nisa). Then there’s verses like 2:49 which in context seem to refer to how young boys were killed while young girls werent

Quran 2:49 talks about how the newborn boys were slaughtered will the “nisa” were kept alive. In the Biblical tradition which this story parallels, the Pharaoh ordered the killing of all newborn boys while all newborn girls would be kept alive. Furthermore, this is also seen in the Quran with Moses being sent away (or else Pharaoh would’ve killed him). It seems weird to pair newborn boys with adult women in specific. Rather, going off the biblical tradition and what the verse itself says, it seems to make more sense to interpret this verse as females as a whole (including newborn ones)

I’m also willing to accept that nisa’s meaning could change depending on the context.

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u/Western-Rush878 — 6 days ago

Am I right in assuming that the narratives of Zaid gathering written pieces of the Quran into one whole is largely ahistorical? What do scholars say on this topic? Did one person do such a compilation?

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u/Western-Rush878 — 8 days ago

What’s up with the supposed conflict between Zaid and Ibn Masud?

Narrated Abdullah: Muhammad bin Abdul Wahab al-Ajeeli narrated to us, saying: Abu Bakr bin Salama narrated to us, saying: Abu Shihab narrated to us from Abu Asim, from Abu Wa'il, from Abdullah, who recited {Whoever misappropriates something will come with what he misappropriated on the Day of Resurrection} and said: "Conceal your mushafs, how do you command me to read the recitation of Zaid, while I have taken seventy surahs directly from the mouth of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) and Zaid bin Thabit was a young boy playing among the boys."
حدثنا عبد الله قال: حدثنا محمد بن عبد الوهاب العجيلي: حدثنا أبو بكر بن سلمة، حدثنا أبو شهاب، عن أبي عاصم، عن أبي وائل، عن عبد الله قال قرأ {ومن يغلل يأت بما غل يوم القيامة} فغلّوا مصاحفكم، كيف تأمروني أن أقرأ قراءة زيد، ولقد قرأت من في رسول الله نصف وسبعين سورة ولزيد ذؤابتان يلعب بين الصبيان.
Kitab Al Masahif Ibn Abu Dawud p. 22

Was this a genuine source of conflict in early Islam, or is this mainly fabricated and not based in reality? What’s going on here?

u/Western-Rush878 — 8 days ago

Does Quran 4:6 have mental maturity as a requirement for marriage? I don’t understand this reading of the text at all, so please help me clarify.

To me, the verse reads like this:

*You have an orphan

*You must constantly, while the child is growing up, test them to see whether or not they are responsible/mature

*THEN, at one point, the orphan reaches a marriageable age (meaning you can already marry them. They’ve crossed this threshold)

*At the point of this orphan reaching the marriageable age (once again, you can already marry them), you make a value judgement on whether or not they’re mature enough to get their inheritance.

*If they’re not mature enough to get the inheritance, you can still marry them, but you have to continue testing them until the point they are mature enough to get their inheritance.

So to me this reads like a 2 step process. First, you must reach the age of marriage. Only then can you check to see if an orphan is mature enough to get their inheritance.

To me this doesn’t read like mental maturity is a requirement for marriage, but please note I’m working with the English translation and that might change things.

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u/Western-Rush878 — 10 days ago

Are the traditions of the companions of Mohammed being sent down to collect the text of the Quran (which was written down on shoulder blades, leaves, etc.) historical or no? How would the Quran have been written down during Mohammed’s time?

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u/Western-Rush878 — 11 days ago

When Quran says (in Q 3:44, Q 11:49, Q 12:102) that it is relating news of the unseen, what does this exactly mean? Is this implying some sort of esoteric knowledge, or something else?

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u/Western-Rush878 — 11 days ago

Thoughts here on the supposed Quranic miracle of 19?

Things such as the basmala being conistently written with 19 letters, there being 114 basmalas present in the Quran (divisible by 19), 114 chapters in the Quran (divisible by 19), al-Rahman and al-Rahim (part of the basmala) seem to be mentioned a multiple of 19 times in relation to Allah (as well as the word Allah itself maybe, but that requires you to remove 2 verses, Q 9:127-128, from the Quran). Another one I've heard is that chapter 1, verse 1 of the Quran has 4 words, and if you combine all these elements together you get 114. Then finally there are some different letter counts you can do to also reach the number 19 or a multiple of 19.

These seem to be some major features of the Quran and contain within them numbers that occur a multiple of 19 times.

Some instant counterclaims I can think of is that if you include the basmalas in the word counts for Allah, al-Rahman and al-Rahim, you instantly lose any resemblance of a multiple of 19 (and I see no reason why you wouldn't count the basmalas, they're part of the Quran and singled out as important parts of the code 19 miracle in the first place). Then, there are other major features of the Quran that don't contain a number 19 feature. For example, only 4 chapters in the Quran have a verse count that is divisible by 19, the mysterious letters of the Quran don't show up a multiple of 19 times, the total number of words in the Quran, as well as letters, doesn't seem to be a multiple of 19, the total number of verses in the Quran isn't a multiple of 19 (unless you sum up all the basmalas and subtract the 2 Quranic verses, but by itself it isn't), many other important words and phrases in the Quran aren't a multiple of 19, and the number of chapters that have a word/letter count that is divisible by 19 isn't itself a multiple of 19.

Finally, you have the issue of Quran 74:30-31 seemingly having no reference to being a mathematical pattern, as well as the idea that depending on the version of the Quran you use (whether that be the Indo-Pak Hafs script, or even the Warsh Quran), several of your counts will go entirely differently.

Nonetheless, I'm interested to hear your thoughts: do you all view this as an intentional pattern or structure, or a simple case of the Texas sharpshooter fallacy as well as being a coincidence?

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u/Western-Rush878 — 13 days ago

When Mohammed in Meccan passages was talking about the imminent end and destruction, was he talking about the whole world or only the Pagan Meccans? Since it seems as though the imminent end is delayed as the Pagan Meccans repent (after Mohammed's capture of Mecca).

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u/Western-Rush878 — 17 days ago

Is Quran’s unorthodox usage of bari in Q 2:54 in association to the Israelites a special reference to the Hebrew Bible’s usage of Bara for God? In other words, a linguistic pun that Mohammed could’ve heard from Jews in the area?

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u/Western-Rush878 — 23 days ago

Quran 54:1 mentions how the moon split (seems likely to be a reference to a solar eclipse), while in Quran 75:8-9 it's mentioned how the moon will darken and the sun and moon will join together. Could this sign of the end times be a reference to a lunar eclipse?

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u/Western-Rush878 — 27 days ago

It is known that Jews before and after Christianity had competing views on what the messiah was. What are some overarching ideas they would agree the messiah would do, though?

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u/Western-Rush878 — 30 days ago

In the Ahmad enigma paper it is said that Mohammed would've had familiarity with a passage from Matthew 12:15-21. Within this passage is embedded the Isaiah 42 narrative...

[Continued from title]: which Mohammed seems to at the very least be paraphrasing. However, what if Mohammed thought that Isaiah 42 was a reference to him, since it mentions Kedar (whose descendants are traditionally understood to be Arabs) as well as the land of Sela (which in Mohammed's context could be understood as the mountain rage near Medina also called Sela)?

In other words, Mohammed interpreted Jesus as referring to him, in the process citing Isaiah 42, which contains verses which could be reinterpreted as being about Mohammed and locations which also could be reinterpreted in Mohammed's context.

As a result, this could've bolstered Mohammed's confidence in the idea that the previous scriptures mention him.

Thoughts?

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u/Western-Rush878 — 1 month ago

Did Mohammed likely believe in the idea that Abraham gave rise to Arabs and Israelites, or is this an idea that developed later?

Reading the Quran it doesn’t seem like Abraham gives birth to 2 different “tribes” of people, but I’ve heard that it’s traditionally believed in Islam that Abraham paved the way for Israelites and Arabs

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u/Western-Rush878 — 1 month ago