u/aforbiddenfruits

Did your parents wait for marriage? Did they have prior sexual partners? Did they engage in hookups or casual sex? How did their marriage/relationship end up, and how did it shape your views on sexuality and why you're here today?

For me, my mom was fairly attractive in her youth and had tons of hot romantic "bad boys" who would chase after her but she rejected them all, as they would be fun boyfriends but terrible husbands. My dad was a socially awkward nerd who was intelligent and highly educated, but very introverted and unromantic. They met through mutual acquaintances, who played recommended them to each other. My parents married as virgins, and abstinence was the expected norm where they lived.

My mom thought my dad would have well-paying job and provide a good, stable life for his family. However, my dad struggled a lot career-wise and made little money, my parents would argue and fight all the time, often over money, we were always tight on money and my parents wanted me to focus on studying hard and getting a high-paying job so I don't end up like them. My mom was not sexually attracted to my dad, she was hoping for financial stability, and they had a dead bedroom after having kids. However, they stayed together through hard times, poverty, and conflicts, never cheating on each other or divorcing.

I thus never had a romantic view of marriage, I never saw romance with my parents, they never hugged or kissed each other or said they loved each other, they had a dead bedroom, they were together because of commitment and duty and self-sacrifice, not love. Which I supposed can be stronger than love, but also sadder.

However, I do see the opposite dynamic in my peers' parents, the cheating, the divorces, the single parenthood, the stepparents, not knowing who your "real" (biological) parents are, etc. So I was under no illusion that the opposite dynamic was better. I guess I grew up kinda jaded, not knowing what a healthy relationship looks like, only different flavors of unhealthy relationships.

What about you? What were your parents like growing up, and how did that shape your views and why you are still a virgin?

If you can live in a matrix-style perfectly realistic simulation where you can have your idealistic boyfriend/girlfriend, surrounded by friends and loved ones, without your insecurities and fears, able to accomplish your dreams and and pursue your passions, living the life you always wanted to life, would you take that opportunity? Or would you reject it for not being "real" and prefer the painful reality to simulated happiness?

For me, I would take the opportunity in a heartbeat, I have nothing in the real world, I would much rather live in my dreams/imagination/simulation rather than suffer in the "real" world.

The amount of people who wait for marriage has steadily declined over time, around 5% of couples marry as virgins. Given it is difficult to find a partner who is also a virgin, who shares your values, is there an age which you would stop waiting and change your mind, or would you hold fast to your beliefs even if it means dying alone and dying a virgin?

1. If you want to wait until marriage yourself, is there an age at which you would settle for a non-virgin partner?
2. Is there an age at which you are tired of missing out on sexual experiences and you would stop waiting for marriage yourself?

What is the earliest you're willing to have sex when dating (e.g. first date, third date, when you become bf/gf, months, years, marriage, etc)?

What is the longest you're willing to wait before having sex within a relationship?

I think we are in a special position here, as virgins with no prior experience, would you want your first time to be with a fellow virgin or someone experienced? my thoughts (hypotheticals):

1. If my partner is a virgin, I'm willing to wait until marriage. It would be ideal for both of us to lose our virginity to each other on our wedding night, though not sure how realistic this is these days, and I don't want to wait forever for the right person to show up.
2. If my partner has had sex with past boyfriends, I'd be willing to wait as long as they did, up to a few months (years would be too long, if it doesn't work out you have to start over, only makes sense if you're waiting for marriage). I don't think it makes sense to wait for marriage for somebody who did not wait for marriage (unless you have religious obligations that bind you to wait, even if your partner does not reciprocate).
3. If my partner has casual sex, probably a few dates. If they don't typically wait, doesn't make sense to wait for them. That said, I would probably want to get to know them first, sex with a complete stranger seems risky (in terms of stranger danger and STDs, etc). Also, not sure I would want to date someone who frequently hooks up with different guys anyways.

For me, the key is reciprocity, I think that is essential for a relationship. What do you think? What are your minimum and maximum wait times? Obviously, it's not a hard-and-fast-rule, it will depend on the specific person, but as a hypothetical, what is your expectations?

When I had sex ed in middle school, the other kids thought sex was super gross once they learned about it, why would anybody want to join together their "dirty" body parts used for excretion, especially with the nasty bodily fluids and germs, and diseases you could get? Many of the girls declared they never wanted to have sex with anybody for as long as they live, if they wanted kids as some point they could use IVF.

In high school, attitudes changed a bit, in my high school very few kids were having sex, the kids didn't use "virgin" as an insult because they expected each other to be virgins (since they weren't adults yet), but they did use "dying a virgin" as an insult, e.g. if you were nerdy, awkward, or weird, the other kids will say you're going to die a virgin. Many of the teenage boys worried they would die a virgin, that was seen as the ultimate failure and disappointment.

For me it was towards the end of college, many college seniors (and some college juniors) were very jaded about life in general, not just being alone. College is usually seen as the most fun part of your life, the highlight/pinnacle of your life where you have adult privileges but not adult responsibilities. After college, it's just working all day until you retire/die, there's no time or opportunities to meet people anymore, nothing to really look forward to other than climbing the corporate ladder.

We were having an existential crisis, and wondering what the meaning and purpose of life is. We had missed out on young love, we had given up on ever experiencing the romanticized visions of youth in the media, and had resigned ourselves to a life of drudgery ahead. There was no hope ahead, life would only go downhill from there.

We also grew up in families who married out of obligation not love, where there is no romance just dead bedrooms and constant arguing, where we could never even imagine the romantic couple getaways and experiences because it was so far removed from our reality, from both our parents and peers, everybody was very "boring" and career-oriented, and the people who have gotten married just spend all their time on their kids, while the people who haven't spend all their time on their careers. The idea of spending time romantically with a partner and exploring the world together, doing couple activities, etc. was as unobtainable as a homeless person sleeping outside a skyscraper and dreaming about owning the building one day.

I know dating apps are specifically for dating, but other than that, how do people meet IRL? Not only is there the lack of third places (places besides work and home) these days, but how would you even approach women without appearing like a creep? Do you just approach random strangers in a mall or store? Do you just flirt with random people? Aren't people upset/angry at the unwanted attention? How do you even know who is single vs taken vs not looking (wants to stay single)?

Do people ask others out at work (what about HR rules against dating coworkers)? Or at bars, clubs? On vacation? Where do people meet their partners? Since graduation from college, I don't even know where to meet people the same age (other than work).

How would you even ask somebody out? Do you become friends first, get to know them for a short time (e.g. an hour, few hours), or cold approach somebody you just met?

For me it was 6th grade (age 11) in sex ed. I was kinda innocent/naive as a child, my parents never explained to me how babies were made, and restricted my internet use heavily, so I would have been clueless for much longer if it weren't for sex ed in school.

What age did you learn about sex? Was it from sex ed, or peers, social media, porn, books/anime/manga, etc? Did your school, parents, or peers provide condoms? Did you have opportunities to have sex (other than lack of a willing partner)?

This may sound like an extremely dumb question, but how do people even initiate sex? In college, we got constantly lectured about the epidemic of college sexual assault and importance of affirmative consent ("Yes means Yes" as opposed to "No means No", which is encoded into college policies and even some state laws), where you're supposed to have enthusiastic, ongoing, specific, affirmative consent, and you're supposed to ask permission verbally for each specific sex act (not sex as a whole).

Does anybody actually do this? I don't know anybody who actually follows this framework, it seems more like an HR compliance exercise than a romantic or intimate encounter. My understanding is people just go for it, or read social cues, but that seems risky given the laws. What do people actually do?

I think I alternate between the two, being super horny and sexually frustrated/angry, vs experiencing anhedonia (inability to get pleasure from anything) and being depressed/sad.

Sometimes I wish I were asexual, can't miss what I don't want. E.g. I don't drink alcohol, I see everyone else drinking, underage drinking was huge in college, other kids were throwing up, getting blackouts, being hospitalized. I never saw the appeal, alcohol doesn't even taste good (to me at least), and I didn't see the appeal of being drunk and losing control.

What do you think? Do you have a high sex drive or a low sex drive? What do you use to cope with if you have a high sex drive? Do you wish you had a higher or lower sex drive?

I'm wondering how the behavior of peers shapes our socialization, e.g. whether we're alone because of our peers or in spite of them. For me, I guess my peers have always been more anti-social, shy, nerdy, and awkward (though I've always been surrounded by STEM people, so that's probably why).

For me:

• In middle school, very few people were in relationships.
• In high school, there were more couples in relationships, but very few were having sex (parents were very strict).
• In college, there were more couples (who were having sex), but also many single guys, we would often get together to complain socialize.
• At work, it seems like everyone is partnered up even though I work in STEM and it's almost all introverts, even the nerdy awkward guys have girlfriends they live with.

Not sure what happened and caused the discontinuity. What were your peers like at different stages of your life,, and how did it affect you?

Hookup culture is so normalized that people who don't engage in it feel ashamed, but I don't see anybody shaming people for casual sex. However, it seems prostitution is still heavily stigmatized, people will shame those visiting escorts for objectifying women, using them as sex objects, etc. but somehow don't apply that analysis to hookups, or have concerns about trafficking (which is valid) but don't apply the same analysis to the porn industry (which has the same issues). Also casual sex also has problems with roofies, alcohol, date rape, sexual assault etc.

Even back in grade school, it never really made sense why loveless casual sex between two strangers is okay, but it's not okay if one pays money (okay if it was indirect like drinks or dinner though), and it's okay again if you film the encounter.

In traditional cultures, all 3 are seen as bad, sex is seen as something special to be shared between married couples who have devoted themselves to each other. In a sex-positive culture, you would expect all 3 to be seen as good, with proper guardrails like legalizing and regulating the sex industry to prevent exploitation and trafficking.

Why is seeing an escort seen as a red flag for a relationship, but having many hookups is seen as valid?

I grew up in a conservative environment, my parents were very strict, no porn, no masturbation, no premarital sex, etc. Most of the other parents were very strict about sex and drugs, etc. as well. Very few kids in my high school had sex, though apparently it is common nationwide. I mostly hear about hookup culture online but didn't see it IRL. In college, when the students were away from parents, some of the couples were having premarital sex, but I didn't see people engaging in casual sex (though to be fair, I never got invited to any parties). At work, I mostly see my coworkers have a stable, long-term girlfriend they live with. My parents are opposed to cohabitation before marriage and think it's immoral.

I guess there are at least 3 norms:

1. Waiting for marriage. My parents' belief, mostly associated with religious and traditional beliefs and older generations.
2. Premarital sex within committed relationship. Seems to be the norm among the younger generation that I interact with.
3. Casual sex, hookups, FWBs, situationships. This is what I hear about online mostly, in media, in culture, in forums, in social media. I haven't really seen it IRL though.

It's unclear what norm to expect, each has its pros and cons, but it should be reciprocal, and both partners should share the same values.

What type of environment did you grow up in, what values were you taught, how did your peers behave, and how does it shape who you are today? Which norm would you prefer, and do you think you would be a virgin at your age in a different environment or if you had a different upbringing?