Current Pros/Cons of Phoenix

Current Pros/Cons of Phoenix

I know this sub is primarily made of Jean fans before this game, and some after she was added and simply liked playing her. As someone who is both, I thought I could share what I feel to be her pros and cons currently standing in season 9.5.

Middle ground

- Visuals : In this game I feel is a middle ground for me. Despite the reactions, I personally love her base design and the unique style of the Phoenix Force as a separate being (not person) next to her. I also like the way she merges with it for various abilities. It is overall a beautiful design, my favorite being the reference to the White Hot Room as she finishes her Ultimate. The middle ground for me comes in with her abilities seemingly visually displaying mostly fire and no psionic abilities. All things aside, this character is based in psionic and cosmic energy. The fire represents moreso flare to the Phoenix moniker rather than the actual meaning of fire control, so that being the most visual for her kit instead of possible pink or psionic abilities is a bit annoying as a fan.

- Slow Fall Passive : I see alot of want for a Slow Fall and although it would be nice, I don’t think its a necessity, considering her versatile her flight is + her other abilities that also aid in mobility, but it wouldn’t be a bad add.

Pros

- Telepathic Illusion : This ability is just a 10/10 in my opinion. Its unique for her character and displays both a perfect mix of her cosmic/psionic synergy, and its just overall a great tool while playing her, especially against divers.

- Dark Ascent : One of the best flight abilities in the game. Its a movement boost, easy to use for repositioning, and adds to her abilities that help her escape.

Cons

- Cosmic Flames : This primary is good, but I feel the reward for the precision is not worth it. I understand she requires aim, I play her very often. What I don’t understand is her being a hitscan dps who requires precise aim, but does not receive rewards for said aim with good damage. I don’t get her hitbox being smaller than other hitscan characters, but also delivers little damage at range. The damage falloff would be acceptable if her healing for doing said damage kept her up, but I feel in this current state it doesn’t. I feel the healing from primary sparks or the primary itself needs to be reworked in some way for her to be in a possible value in comparison to other hitscans in game.

- Psionic Detonation : This ability is her bread and butter for sparks, but I just feel its not necessary in her kit and is really strong, it’s alot in one. It serves as a a bigger version of her Spark Expolsions, and I feel it honestly can just replace her actual Spark Explosions in size without multiple debuffs. This ability also being a stun, slow, and now a antiheal is probably the main reason adjusting her in game is so difficult for balancing purposes. I feel this could be replaced with a true telekinetic ability instead.

- Endsong Inferno + Revive Mechanic : I see so many complaints about this ability due to its damage, but I honestly have come to thr conclusion it isnt the damage lacking rather than the speed of it. If the speed of which she gets to the sky and dives was adjusted it would have a higher success rate for her. Also, I would rather prefer she had a revive to do her ultimate immediately with an added bonus than full hp. I get it acts as a revive, but it would just serve as a better gameplay experience for the ultimate exclusive revive.

- Telekinesis/Telepathy : My last and biggest issue is the lack of telekinetic abilities for her. I feel this character is great in game, but it just doesn’t feel like Jean Grey/Phoenix. Her character was clearly based as an alternate to Hela, which give the lore is nice in theory, but she has since then been surpassed by her. I feel she now has no character identity in this game whether we like her kit or not. It feels like the devs need to adjust her to fit into another niche or find her own, so she doesn’t lose viability in game.

u/alkg176 — 1 day ago

Lore behind Rework

We discussed how Jean needs or we mostly prefer a rework of sorts to either make her multirole or just adjust her as a duelist. How would you say lore wise it would fit for Jean to suddenly tap more into psionic and telekinetic abilities compared to now than later. I only ask, because Widow had a lore adjustment to express her rework also.

Personally, my take was always her connection and relink to their rapport would serve as a power - up of sorts due to her White Phoenix (of the) Crown skin, and her once again further connecting with her psionic side due to it, but what would everyone else’s thoughts be for this? or even if you felt she would switch, extend to another role, or possibly team-up switch in game?

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u/alkg176 — 8 days ago

Psychic Crown?

I find so interesting how her psychic crown is never apparent in game or obviously the use of psychic abilities. the artwork here is so beautiful.

u/alkg176 — 10 days ago

Changes we tangibly see/want

I’ve played her this new season, and she doesn’t really feel different than she did before the buffs. I feel her kit has some issues that honestly puts her in a place of if she’s buffed, she’s too strong. if she’s nerfed, she’s too weak, and right now she feels lackluster and weak. We need to push for specific changes and enhancements, and I think this needs to be a bigger discussion, considering most who disagree do not play the character. Here are mine:

Issue #1 Hitbox Size: Her hitbox is the smallest of all hitscan duelists, but she delivers the least damage for it. It makes no sense imo. This alone is a reason to pick another hitscan dps in the game. I would suggest making her hitbox bigger in size and reducing her on-hit damage. Put more focus on crowd control via her explosions.

Issue #2 Psionic Detonation: This is ability is her main source of CC and spark explosions, and personally I would swap it out or remove the form of CC it gives. I would suggest a Silence to enemy passives or no CC at all outside of a Slow. I feel this is almost identical to her Spark Explosions, but just bigger.

Issue #3 Character Identity: I feel this is the main issue for me personally, but her original intention in this game has been changed due to her no longer being able to rival Hela, granted that’s who she was added to counter. That in of itself is silly, but I feel they could shift this in her favor. Change her in a way that focuses less on being an alternate of Hela and more of her own character that focuses on CC and chain reactions via CC. This is the opportunity to add some form of Telekinesis to her kit to fulfill the character fantasy and make her stand out in a huge pool of Duelists.

Issue #4 Endsong Inferno: This ability is rather lackluster, but if buffed it becomes a bit ridiculous. Rather than change it completely, I suggest it gets added as a second form Ultimate. Fans have mentioned wanting Jean to have a self resurrection regardless due to her abilities, but this could work. I would suggest a second form similar to Super Hulk or Fox Form where Jean gets increased damage, one ability as a new form of her primary fire and the option to do her ultimate in this form. I would focus on this form being her main source of lifesteal and regenerating health.

What are some serious suggestions you all feel is needed for her current character?

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u/alkg176 — 11 days ago

Jean Next?

so what are the possibilities we get jean added next for this dlc, i hope its focused on psionics rather thsn this being a way to not add her at all.

u/alkg176 — 28 days ago

DPS or Strategist

since this new season has began, i’ve seen multiple takes on how fans feel jean’s identity in this game has been lost, and i agree, so i’m going to take the advice from someone i met here that suggested posting a rework in the discord dev thread or even pitching it to them directly. my question is do we prefer she stays a duelist with more direction or be a strategist..or the possibility of a kit that works for both.

if you also have any kit ideas, im open ears. my current thought process is her sparks acting as a way to weaken enemies so they’re able to be displaced, moved, etc from the rest of her kit, kind of focusing on her as a telekinetic and her ult acting similar to white fox or hulk as a transformation of sorts ( and even possibly being stronger if done while dead ).

View Poll

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u/alkg176 — 1 month ago

This is who I think of if Phoenix was made into a Strategist.

Obviously there would be some changes, but the link, alley pulling rescue, the ult could be better for a game like Rivals, but overall it always felt very Jean to me.

youtu.be
u/alkg176 — 1 month ago

Do we still want a rework?

The teamup system shook things up, but do we still think Jean needs a rework. I would personally say yes, because shes not needed as a poke. They have enough, especially with storm’s addition to it. I think she needs a light rework of some sort to make her close-mid range based hero. Even consider sparks only being applied through melee/primary fire to balance her out.

Any thoughts?

Will say I love how this sub wants changed despite her being a somewhat OP character in this game. It shows we value the character identity/accuracy over scaling in game comp.

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u/alkg176 — 1 month ago

New Team-Ups and hope for more?

Her new team-ups and hope for more.

I’m personally pleased with these teamups, but here are a few i would want in the future.

- Sue + Phoenix : Base grants her a psionic/psychic holding beam that finalizes with a massive push and spark application. Enchanced applies added knockback damage if they hit a wall.

- Cyclops + Phoenix : Thanks to the lore given, Jean regains her psychic link to Scott and expands her powers, allowing her the ability to mentally link with enemies, healing them, even through solid surfaces.

What are some of the team-ups would you guys like to see in future seasons ?

u/alkg176 — 1 month ago

Season 9 Wishlist

Rumors have circulated that this season’s dev vision will be a complete overhaul of the current game and characters. There has been a lot of hype from the list of streamers and partners in general. What are our hopes, predictions, wishlist for Jean in this.

P.S. someone mentioned how the characters in the galacta icons above and how they mat at changes or something for those characters.

u/alkg176 — 1 month ago

Phoenix Rework (REFRESH)

I know I posted a rework before, but I felt it was overbloated and had a lot of unneeded mechanics, so I tried to perfect it further to this current version. This rework plays more on the synergy of Jean and the Phoenix as one being, but different entities. My concept reworks her as functioning duelist who has some key aspects of her old kit ( survivability and mobility ), while also adding new ones such as becoming less of a poke hero and becoming a mid-range , crowd control, and aoe focused duelist. This will mix aspects of other game versions of Jean, I find to capture her well. All abilities outside of her Ultimate and Primary Fire are designed to do little damage, and act more as setups for her to ensure kills with her primary fire.

Abilities
Health : 275

Passive : Phoenix Elegy
Description : When Jean dies, she releases a small implosive blast that could damage enemies in the area. This works as an alternate version of what Hela does, thought it would be fun.

Kinetic Barrage (Primary Fire)
Description : Jean will grab rocks from the nearby terrain to throw at enemies ahead, applying sparks. This changes her from hitscan to projectile, allowing a bigger hitbox for the cost of less range, although increased and soon capped when landing . Her spark explosion now acts as Psionic Detonation, it triggers a three way explosive with no debuffs. This change focuses her more into as mid range a Crowd Control DPS. I feel her fire rate would also be reduced to balance this out. 12 ammo. Jean also has a meter similar to Emma’s, if filled, her range increases for a short duration, applying a burn effect to enemies she hits. The burn only applies to enemies she hits with her primary fire and not explosions from sparks.

Psychic Hammer (Secondary Fire)* *:
Description : Right click or R2, functioning and can be paired with her primary for combos. It has an ammo of 75. It acts as a meter similar to Emma. Jean sends out a cone like shape of psionic energy in a short range in front of her. the lasting hit of this ability pushes enemies back and incoming projectiles, reflecting them back at the enemies ahead. It can only do this to projectiles, not all damage. For example, this could deflect Hela’s primary and ultimate, but not Wanda’s primary or ultimate.

Dark Ascent (Ability 1)
Description : Works the same as it did before, but includes a trail of cosmic flames applying small damage and following her till she ascends.

Psionic Stasis (Ability 2)
Description : My first ode to her best video game adaptation in my opinion, X-Men Legends. Jean traps an enemy hero in psionic aura , suspending them in the air and applying a Nullify Effect. Nullify works similarly to Exile by Hulk, the enemy cannot be healed, take damage, or be targeted by anyone. During this duration, retrigger the same ability to launch the trapped target at a target location via crosshair placement inflicting damage to them and anyone in the area if they hit as well. If left suspended in the air, they remain there for 3s, before being released. 12s cooldown.

Psychic Shroud (Ability 3)* *
Description : My second ode to X-Men, Jean releases a 360° psionic blast around her, applying an affect to enemies as well as a spark. Cripple acts as a mental weaken/block enemies, temporarily increasing their damage taken for a duration. 10s cooldown.

Telepathic Illusion (Ability 4)
Description : Same as in game, but with an added affect. If caught in the explosion, there is a decaying affect (2s) of highlighted figures ahead of the enemy, acting as illusions of Jean. 10s cooldown.

Endsong Inferno (Ultimate)
Description : Act as is in the game. Now has the passive of Jean being able to perform it while dead. Jean will become a small light where she has a limited time to decide if she wants to reanimate and perform her ultimate. this version of her ultimate is the same, but the phoenix moves faster, decreasing the chance of escape from enemies.

u/alkg176 — 12 days ago

Phoenix Concept

Telekinesis : Primary fire that just visually has Jean throw terrain towards enemies, not actually taking pieces from the map. The third attack has an visual effect similar to her Psionic Detonation ability to keep that ability alive. Projectile based fire. Burn Effect caps at 5s stack. Ammo would be 10-12.

Psychokinesis : This fire would work as a mid-close range attack with a jolt at the end of the meter, enabling a knockback. A beam with similar using like Emma or Ironman, but wider range. Visually would look more of a radiating telekinetic wave. Ammo would be 50-75.

Neural Network: The affect would last 3-5s, depending which is most balanced. This ability does no damage. The shot would be a focused, but fairly moderate to shot. Cooldown 12s.

Psionic Statis: I had to sit and think of a way to relate her to her best telekinesis mechanic, which brought me to X-Men Legends. I think this would work. Jean would place the enemy in a sky level bubble, like Namor, and she could leave them there OR retrigger in a target location to deal damage by throwing the enemy. If it hits others, they all take damage. There would be a brief timer during the lifting time, of course before it just dropping the opponent. 2 Charges. Cooldown 20s for both charges. 10s Cooldown per charge.

Telepathic Illusion: this works the same way, but does less or no damage, whichever is more balanced to make up for the debuff. The Silence lasts 3s. Cooldown 10s.

Telekinetic Mastery: I really like the idea of Jean being a hybrid flyer/grounded hero similar to Angela. I figured this works as a passive rather than an active ability. I would simply have her slowly fall from high terrain or given the ability to fly at a slowly rate to avoid imbalance possibilities. if anyone has any other ideas to make this better and balanced, please mention some. Visually, the phoenix flies beside her and during her revive ultimate, they’re combined.

Phoenix Elegy: I always felt she should have a revive mechanic, given the whole concept of her character as the Phoenix. I thought the concept of a player deciding which ultimate is suited for the fight works best imo.

Omega Level: This ability almost works exactly like Loki’s boss ability. It would have a large radius of reach, and be more of a lock-on. I would have the phoenix watch over Jean’s body and if the egg is broken in this duration, Jean returns to her body, and if not she can perform any action or ability of the player she has control over for 7s-10s for her original team. It essentially makes her turn on the enemy team as a friend fire tactic. It feels like a high risk high reward ability worth the hassle.

Endsong Inferno: I view this as an ability that happens at the location of death, making it almost exclusive to team fights. The concept is a massive shockwave after a small delay that blinds (white flare), and deals more damage than her original ultimate, while deleting summons and such. I figured it may be too strong, but given it can only be done while dead first or at the expense of her other ultimate, i figured it balanced out.

All of these abilities would be presented visually as jean and her other form working beside each other as is in the game currently. I feel this kit focuses on Jean making tactical and strategic plays that debuff and weaken the team, while her primary fires does the damage. I feel this is how a character such as Jean would keep the character fantasy.

u/alkg176 — 3 months ago

I’m sure it’s obvious, but just in case the devs view this sub.. we need a Phoenix Summer Skin.

Edit: To clarify, I don’t want any of these looks specifically, just for her to get a summer skin. These pics just add lore support to my idea for her to have a Summer Skin.

u/alkg176 — 4 months ago